Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/William Hogarth - Beer Street.jpg

Beer Street and Gin Lane

 * Reason:It's a high-quality scan - well, scans - of some art that I'm very happy to have acquired for Christmas. As a set of two images, it seemed to make more sense to nominate them together.
 * Articles this image appears in:Beer Street is only used in Beer Street. Gin Lane is used in Gin Lane, William Hogarth (where it stands as the representative of the set), Gin, East End of London, Augustan literature, and Gin Craze (in all of which it replaces an old, low-res image). Caption is based on the description in William Hogarth, though I cut a bit.
 * Creator:William Hogarth


 * Support as nominator Vanished user talk 14:19, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Support both.  Majorly  (talk) 17:11, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Support both. Famous illustration well scanned.  Durova Charge! 21:05, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Support Very nice scan of a famous, historical shot. Cat-five - talk 02:17, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Support it tells people the bad effects of drinking beer. Also, it is a great photo. Dar book (talk) 11:31, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually it shows the bad effects of drinking gin. See Gin.  Durova Charge! 20:59, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Support one Gin Lane looks fine. Do you have any more details on Beer Street? It may be a state I haven't seen before, but some details are missing from the first issued state: for example Lockman's name on the New Ballad on the Herring Fishery is difficult to read, the text the king's speech and a large wall are missing, the girl being fondled by the pavior has a different expression (all of which are discernible in the old image even if the text if not legible). Do you have the information on who issued the reprints and which states of the prints they are? Yomangani talk 12:35, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I don't. Sorry! I got it, and it turned out to be one of those awful things where someone cut it out of a book, removing all context. Vanished user talk 13:58, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I can't find any reference to this variation as an "official" state from Hogarth's plates. Nichol makes no mention of it, and he's normally pretty thorough up to 1833. I suspect this is re-engraved after Hogarth sometime in the latter half of the 19th century. While it is a pity, because it is an excellent detailed scan, I don't think this should be featured without some provenance that ties it directly to Hogarth. Yomangani talk 17:53, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe this one is from the 1880s. As I said, I don't know anything further - it's possible that it was done from new plates (reproduced by pantograph, perhaps), as I think they tended towards that in Victorian times, and that the engraver for Beer Street took a few liberties. This is, of course, pure speculation. Vanished user talk 18:09, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * However, I have to admit to finding it difficult to identify many of the differences you suggest. Could you give a bit more detail as to where things are? I am not a Hogarth expert, I fear. Vanished user talk 01:16, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure (much of the detail is difficult to make out in the old images, but unfortunately the decent copies I have are in books that wouldn't survive the trip to the scanner):
 * Behind the sign-painter and blacksmith with the ham in his hand is a large wall. This was added between the first and second states, probably to fill some blank space left by the removal of the Frenchman who was replaced in the 1759 issue by the leg of ham/beef/mutton and the pavior/drayman and housemaid
 * The tankard in front of the butcher at the table has a foamy head in the first state and in the second state the foam is spilling onto the table. In the new image it spills halfway down the tankard.
 * On the table in front of the butcher is a copy of a speech given by George II. In the new image the title is hard to make out and the body of the speech on the other sheet is replaced by wavy lines. The words are visible in both the states issued during Hogarth's lifetime
 * The speech lies on top of a loose sheet of "The Daily Advertiser" in the two issued states (though the title is slightly obscured in the first state). In the new image it lies on an unmarked piece of paper.
 * A pipe lies across the sheet of "The Daily Advertiser" and the bowl is visible on the table in the first state. It is removed in the second state (our old image), but appears in the new image detached and slightly removed from the paper.
 * The housemaid dangling the key has a different expression in the new image and her fingers are in slightly different positions
 * The ballad held by the fish-seller clearly reads "By Mr. Lockman" in the issued states. In the new image this is somewhat obscured by hatching
 * In the new image in basket of books, the book placed by itself at the side has no title visible, and the topmost book is missing "Vers" at the end of the title. The next book down "Hill on Royal Societies" hides the "al" of "Royal" whereas it is visible in the issued states, and it omits the "Ant" of "Antique" visible on "Turnbul on Antique Painting" The label on the basket in the new image is missing "the" before "Trunk Maker" (replaced by a squiggle) and replaces "in" with "St" before "Paul's City"
 * The top of the chimney just visible behind the painter's shoulder juts out in the new image whereas it is flush to the body of the chimney in the issued states (though the chimney is barely discernible in the old image). Yomangani talk 10:55, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, this version's been pantographed then. It's not particularly large in my original - I suspect Hogarth would have done it bigger than a largish postcard, and it looks like the person responsible for preparing it got lazy in the Beer Lane version, leaving out the fine detail. Vanished user talk 13:50, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It is strange that it combines details from both issued states in that case. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any copies of this new image apart from on WP mirrors. And by the way, I've knocked up a quick article on Beer Street and Gin Lane, as discussing them separately is nonsensical. Yomangani talk 14:21, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

MER-C 04:41, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

In case you are still watching, they are both engraved by Samuel Davenport (1783–1867) "from the originals by William Hogarth", probably around 1806-09 for a version of Trusler's Hogarth Moralized. Yomangani talk 01:56, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, honestly - what are these images featured as? I mean, they are very pretty, with lots of pixels and all, but these version are not either of the two originals by Hogarth. -- Theramin (talk) 23:40, 12 February 2008 (UTC)