Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/delist/Geisha-kyoto-2004-11-21.jpg

Delist: Geisha-kyoto-2004-11-21.jpg
Voting period ends on 15 Jun 2014  at 06:37:03 (UTC)
 * Reason:Not a bad picture, but blatantly fails the FP criteria. The size of the picture is only 872x1052 - way below the minimum 1500x1500, and since the picture hardly is historical nor unique (maiko and geisha move about in full sight in the hanamachi of Kyoto practically every day of the year), there are no excuses for this. Is also not of a very high technical standard - grainy, blurry when zoomed up and only the first maiko is somewhat in focus. There's also some clipping in all three RGB channels, especially blue and green. Here's an example of another free image (CC BY ND) better showing off the make-up:
 * Articles this image appears in:Geisha, nape
 * Previous nomination/s:Featured picture candidates/Nape Makeup
 * Nominator: JPNEX (talk)


 * Delist &mdash; JPNEX (talk) 06:37, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment - I don't think delisting solely on size is a worthwhile endeavor, but your other arguments may have weight. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:52, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * That's not what's happening here, but what makes you think it wouldn't be a "worthwhile endeavor" if it indeed were? I don't see anything like this mentioned in any of the rules/criteria. Also, the very fact that a picture like this has FP status might make others less inclined to upload FP-quality pictures of the same subject.JPNEX (talk) 07:13, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I never said that's what is happening here, did I? I only brought it up because you spent half the nomination statement talking about resolution. Regarding the "worthwhile endeavor" comment, although a grandfather clause is not included at WP:FP?, discussions such as this have tended to be against delisting exclusively on the basis of resolution. I think we've got a case where such a nomination was tried as well, but can't think of it off hand. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:24, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Didn't mean to say you were ... damn words. Thank you for the clarification, I think it'd be a good idea to mention this in the delist rules/recommendations/whatever. JPNEX (talk) 09:41, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Might be worth bringing this to WT:FPC, but delists are so uncommon I doubt it would get much traction. That being said, delist on technical aspects and the fact that this can be reproduced reasonably easily. Shame we have so few good pictures of Japanese culture... (Departures is really suffering for it). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:44, 5 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Delist. I like the composition, but would it pass today? No. Can we reasonably expect better to come along? Yes, I think so. J Milburn (talk) 08:50, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep The community has already agreed that increased resolution requirements at FP are not to be imposed retrospectively. Indeed, that was almost a condition for some people for allowing the resolution requirements to be increased. I don't think "would it pass today" or "could we reasonably expect better" are valid arguments for delist. Importantly, since this picture has been in-use and FP for eight years: that's more than enough time for someone to take a better one if it was so easy. Perhaps the expectation of better is not quite so realistic. This is a good photo in terms of composition, colour and EV. Other than small size, I fail to see the claimed technical deficiencies. -- Colin°Talk 11:55, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The question here is whether this meets the FP criteria. I can see absolutely no utility in keeping pictures featured which do not meet the criteria- if you do, then I think you owe an explanation. When I ask whether it would pass today, I'm asking whether I suspect community consensus is that it meets the criteria. (As for "reasonably expect better"- I'm not sure I need to defend my objection to FPs which could be significantly improved upon.) J Milburn (talk) 17:52, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * See my comment on previous picture and Hysteresis. It is simply not true that the purpose of Delist is to rejudge old pictures against todays standards as though it was a fresh nomination. If there are better pictures, then upload them and put them in the article. -- Colin°Talk 12:53, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Further, there's a big difference between "it was promoted relatively recently under the slightly-more-permissive older criteria", and "it's tiny, but you can't argue that's a problem". The agreement was that we shouldn't delist the things that the most recent resolution increase put under, not that we should put resolution off the the table. Adam Cuerden (talk) 06:32, 6 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment. I think the two girls in the photo might actually be fake maiko ("maiko for a day" tourists), if the image's description page is correct. There are no ochaya near the Golden Pavilion and real maiko are very unlikely to just be hanging around in the moust touristy area in Kyoto. See this discussion (in Japanese): a Yahoo Answers thread where the question is where one can find maiko dress-up studios near the Golden Pavilion (the answer is that there are none nearby, but several of the studios do offer dress-up+taxi tours there). JPNEX (talk) 14:43, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Delist This is simply way, way too small, plus there's issues as to whether it's authentic. Adam Cuerden (talk) 06:32, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Delist. I agree with Colin, to an extent. We did agree not to judge existing FPs against current resolution requirements, but I think when the image is of low resolution and is no longer representative of our best FPs or otherwise has issues relating to accuracy and EV, then I think we can certainly consider delisting. &#208;iliff    &#171;&#187;  (Talk)  12:20, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Delist Sure, I will be the fifth person for this delist. I am not thrilled with the quality, and plenty else has already been said above. Sven Manguard   Wha?  20:11, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

--Armbrust The Homunculus 06:38, 15 June 2014 (UTC)