Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/delist/Giraffe08 melbourne zoo

Giraffe08 melbourne zoo

 * Reason:The picture faills few Featured picture criteria: not high technical standard - the giraffe is underexposed and the background is distracting; Is not among Wikipedia's best work -there are better pictures with the much higher resolution are  available in commons:  The picture does not add any value to an articleGiraffe it appears into and has no encyclopedic value at all. The resolution of the picture is less than 2 mega pixels; The picture has a bad caption
 * Nominator: Mbz1


 * Delist &mdash; Mbz1 21:00, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Mbz, I respect that you are essentially a newbie and more familiar with commons, but please make sure you become familiar with en:FPC before delisting, particularly mass delisting as it doesn't look like you have a grasp of what we look for here. First compared to your shots my image is much better exposed (I honestly can't see how you can claim yours are not underexposed and mine is). And same deal with the background. Second there isn't "better pictures" in the ones you linked too - all your's suffer from bad noise and are extremely blurry/soft. Third yours show the animal in a clearly unnatural surrounding (the pine tree), mine you couldn't tell it was in a zoo because the trees are nicely blurred out. Fourth please check criteria before claiming it violates them, pictures on wikipedia FPC, unlike commons, only have to have a resolution of 1000 pixels in the longest dimension!. Also per very long discussions on the talk page, the caption on the images on FPC should reflect the standard of a caption in an article. And this caption is perfectly valid (not to mention the absurdity of delisting a photo because of it's caption). Please start up Featured Caption Candidates if you are still concerned. For your information a few key quotes (some of which from the guy who does POTD) regarding captions: "I think the subject's information remain the responsability of POTD (and/or the nominator, if he wishes to help)", "my reading of the requirement that the extended caption should be on the image page is to ensure that the picture is explained even outside the context of an article", "I don't want rehashes of the article -- I can do that myself when I write the POTD blurb" --Fir0002 22:25, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I even cannot see the eye of giraffe well in your "Head of a Giraffe, taken at the Melbourne Zoo". Even, if all of above is correct, the picture adds nothing to the article. It has no value whatsoever.What should I learn while looking at your picture? After all it is encyclopedia and not a beautiful, sharp pictures photo contest. Every each of my last three blurry pictures has more value in every blur than your not blurry picture in whole. Believe me, normal enciclopedia readers, who do not vote here, but just read articles will like three of my last pictures much more than yours because they show some more or less rare action. By the way I see you speedy moved the image to another section letting way to my blurry pictures. How nice of you. Thanks.[[Image:A male Lion, Zebras and Wildebeest in Ngorongoro Crater.jpeg|right|200px]] Oh one more thing, if you believe that blurry background makes the picture look like it was taken in the wild, you cannot be more wrong. Here's, for example,  my picture from Ngorongoro Crater(it is a low resolution, digital copy of my old film picture), so relax for a moment, do not look at quality, look at background and enjoy the view. Why in the world would I want to blur  backround to pretend that the picture was taken in the wild? It was taken in a wild! Period. --Mbz1 23:54, 26 July 2007 (UTC)Mbz1
 * Hmm, without sounding overly rude, but do you own a pair of glasses? Or perhaps your monitor needs calibrating (please see the "Is my monitor calibrated correctly?" section on top of FPC). They eyes are there, trust me! :)
 * And yes it is an encyclopaedia, which is why I assumed a photo of a giraffe was pretty useful in an article on the subject, I could be wrong but photos of grasshoppers, gnats and gnus are unlikely to add much. I'm sorry but rare action? A giraffe sitting down?
 * I ment a baby nurcing and mother licking the baby.--Mbz1 15:10, 27 July 2007 (UTC)mbz1
 * I see you speedily removed mine again - please do not do this a third time.
 * The point you seemed to have missed is that your photo and indeed mine are not taken in the wild, and hence a blurred background separates mine from a pine-tree-in-the-background-of-an-african-animal-snapshot. Sure there isn't much point in blurring the background in the pic you linked, but it's in the wild not in a zoo!


 * I'm afraid you are the one, who missed the point. Nobody, who's taking pictures of common zoo animals in the wild will blur background. There's no need because you could go to nearby zoo and blur background there--Mbz1 15:10, 27 July 2007 (UTC)Mbz1
 * Oh and btw, you might want to reconsider the spelling on your image descriptions... --Fir0002 06:10, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Instead you could edit it for me. I've noticed you like to edit other people pictures.--Mbz1 15:10, 27 July 2007 (UTC)Mbz1

. Enough. MER-C 10:39, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep There is nothing wrong with this image, in fact I think it's really good -- you can almost feel the texture of the giraffe's fur by looking at it -- and I strongly disagree that the proposed alternates are better. Spebudmak 23:19, 26 July 2007 (UTC) Note, since I made this remark, three more alternates were added above.Spebudmak 01:36, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * "There is nothing wrong with this image" is not good enough reasin to keep it. An image should be special in some way. Is it? I just did a search at Flickr for giraffe and ZOO. I 've got 27,859 results and most of them show a sharp giraffe head. By the way I do not offer above pictures as alternates to be FP. I'll be ashamed to nominate them at FP not because there are problems with them, but just because they have no value, as well as the image offered for delist has no value. I believe that niether two first alternates nor the original image have encyclopedic value. I believe that the original image as well as the 2 first alternates add nothing to the article. I do believe that the last three alternates add a lot to the article, but of course they are too blurry to become FP at that sharp, no value photo contest --Mbz1 00:08, 27 July 2007 (UTC)Mbz1
 * In which case it brings to question why you have put them here as "better images" to the FP... --Fir0002 06:19, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't you understand that that I cannot care less about FP. How many people are voting here? How many people read articles? From all pictures in that article your picture has the smalest value, if at all (in my opinion).--Mbz1 15:10, 27 July 2007 (UTC)Mbz1
 * Please Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point or you may get blocked --Fir0002 09:05, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Speedy Keep per Spebudmak. Debivort 23:41, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep. Mbz1, please stop being a pain. At least the FPC procedure stops people like you from taking it upon yourself to have the absolute authority on such matters, albeit in a slow and bureaucratic way. Diliff  | (Talk)   (Contribs) 11:12, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, hi, Diliff,I remember you,Diliff. Weren't you the one,Diliff, who said that, if I'm to take a picture of an alien in alien ship,but it would not be perfect, you,Diliff, will oppose it? I really fealt sorry for you, Diliff after that. I still do,Diliff. Oh and by the way you,Diliff, are the one, who, in my opinion, also have feutered quite a few in my opinion no value pictures. I'm not a pain, Diliff (after all it is my very first delist request, Diliff). I exercise my rights for free speech and free opinion, Diliff. Do you have a problem with the freedom of speech,Diliff? --Mbz1 15:10, 27 July 2007 (UTC)Mbz1
 * It would also be nice if you could say "I think that the picture adds no value.." rather than just stating it as if it is an absolute fact. It comes across as quite arrogant, particularly in light of everyone disagreeing with you. Diliff  | (Talk)   (Contribs) 11:26, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well put Diliff. I wonder, Mbz1, if you, Mbz1, have any concept of how irritating it is, Mbz1, to talk like this Mbz1? If you want to continue voting here I would suggest you lose a little of the drama queen attitude and adopt a little more civility. Trolls are not welcome on FPC --Fir0002 09:05, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Looks fine to me. Matt Deres 13:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep per above. The nature of this delist nom is going from the bizarre to the obsessive. Of probably even more concern are the repeated edits to the giraffe article by this user that is starting to head towards vandalism. Please think before you act. --jjron 14:36, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Please,Jjron, do not ask me "think before I act". The more I think,Jjron, the more I want to remove that picture from the article,Jjron. Can I also suggest,Jjron, that you think before using such words as "vandalism". --Mbz1 15:14, 27 July 2007 (UTC)Mbz1
 * comment I wish somebody would tell me what that picture adds to the article, but I doubt somebody will, because in my opinion(Diliff) it adds nothing. It was artificially put in section "food and feeding", but of course the head of giraffe in Melburn zoo does not eat anything. Then it was artificially moved to section "description", but of course the head of giraffe in Melburn zoo does not describe anything. The last movement so far brought the poor head of giraffe in Melburn zoo to  "Social structure and breeding habits" section. Please forgive me  being so naive, but I kind of  believe that to describe Social structure and breeding habits we need to have at least two giraffes. Am I right, Diliff? But please do not respond. I really cannot care lese what you think, Diliff. If somebody (but Diliff and Jjron)  were kind enough instead of spitting  saliva out (Diliff and Jjron) and calling me a pain or a vandal (Diliff and Jjron)  to explain to me what vallue that pictures adds to "Social structure and breeding habits" section, where it is now, or to any of the sections it was before, or to the article in general,I would be the first one to say "keep". Fir0002, can you please, explain me that? Until then I'd say "delist" and remove  from the article.  It is my last comment, everybody. I wish you all good luck with the keeping that no value(in my opinion,Diliff) picture and with FP in general.I'm glad that sometimes some great pictures still could get through the bias wall and some no value pictures are stopped.--Mbz1 15:07, 27 July 2007 (UTC)Mbz1
 * I'm sorry, but I am going to respond (briefly), regardless of whether you want me to or not. I do agree with you that a single giraffe head does not describe social structure and breeding habits, but I think you will find that images do not always specifically illustrate the section they are placed in. Of course it is preferable to put them in sections that best suit, but not being in such a section does not justify the complete removal of the image - not that I even commented on its removal from the article in the first place. That was, as far as I know, just between you and Fir0002. If there is a high quality image that does better illustrate it, then by all means, move the image to the section, and move Fir0002's featured image somewhere else. To say it offers nothing to the article is over-the-top. Diliff  | (Talk)   (Contribs) 16:25, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Because it is a valid response I'd like to answer it. First of all you did not tell me what value that image adds to the article in general, except it is being sharp and properly exposed what is that image about? Isn't this the truth that FP pictures criterie number 5 says: "Adds value to an article and helps readers to understand an article. An image's encyclopedic value is given priority over its artistic value"? And now I'dlike to hear your honest opinion. Don't you think that image would have added much more value to the section "Social structure and breeding habits". I know you will probably tell me that the image is blurry or something else. I will not argue that. I just do not care.It is where we differ. I believe that a bad image of a difficult subject or a bad image of a rare behavior is much better than a good image of a common, no action subject and that encyclopedic value should be given priority over its artistic value.Oh, yes, everybody, please forgive me my spelling. I've learned English not so long ago--Mbz1 17:03, 27 July 2007 (UTC)Mbz1
 * Keep - There's nothing wrong with this image; it adds to the article in that it shows you with excellent detail what a giraffe's head looks like. In my opinion, a delist candidate should have a lower bar to remain an FP than a new-FPC candidate has to become an FP; otherwise, we'll just be rehashing settled issues.  --TotoBaggins 19:34, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep - TotoBaggins' point is a very good one. Although this may not be the place to discuss this, I strongly agree.  If I'd even consider supporting a FP now, I'll easily agree to keep.  Zakolantern 22:31, 27 July 2007 (UTC)