Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/delist/Sochi

Sochi edited

 * Reason:A very beautiful image but in no way meets the size requirements, which is a very vital requirement when promoting images. And the detail that can be seen isn't very good. Looks grainy. &mdash; Arjun 03:14, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Nominator: Arjun


 * Delist &mdash; Arjun 03:03, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delist per size. It's pretty much required that vistas fit the size requirement, no exceptions here --⁪froth T C  05:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That's a picture from the Prokudin-Gorskii collection, so there might be a larger tiff file available. Maybe I'll do some sifting later. ~ trialsanderrors 09:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Here we go: Zakat solntsa v Gagrakh ~ trialsanderrors 09:30, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Follow-up: I did the cropping and rotating of the tiff version but it needs some serious manual clean-up, so I would like to hear whether size is the only problem here or whether it might be delisted on other grounds. ~ trialsanderrors 19:20, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Trialsanderrors:Yeah probably, for some reason I think the image is a little blurry but we shall see. &mdash; Arjun 19:28, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep under the condition that it be made bigger otherwise Delist. 00:56, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delist due to size, also seems somewhat blurry and out-of-focus. If a larger version will be uploaded I suggest creating a new nomination, but I doubt it will pass.  Michaelas10   (Talk)   10:39, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delist per size. SD31415   (SIGN HERE)  13:22, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep. The blurriness, especially in the ocean, is a symptom of the way the photograph is made. Read the Sergei Mikhailovich Prokudin-Gorskii article and see Image talk:Prokudin-Gorskii-19.jpg for more information. howcheng {chat} 03:03, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep As is mentioned at the original nomination, the image was made in 1915 so the historical value outweighs the size requirement in my opinion. Spebudmak 23:47, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Size is not a feature of the original image, but of the edited copy here. There is a much larger copy available at the LoC website (see link above) that requires editing. ~ trialsanderrors 19:18, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, the image should then be replaced with a higher resolution version. But there is no reason to delist this one while we are waiting.  Spebudmak 19:39, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, this is an historical photograph, so why do any manual editing to the archival, source version, other than the rotation? The edges of the version at the link above are interesting to see, given the color process that was used.  We promoted the new scan of [[Image:Duhauron1877.jpg|30px]] in the same way.Spebudmak 20:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * delist keep - made in 1915. Debivort 09:22, 8 January 2007 (UTC) since it seems to illustrate Sochi rather than the photographic technique, the fact that it was taken in 1915 doesn't matter. Debivort 19:40, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delist because of size. I doubt it can be made much better from the originals. Also there is not much historical value since the place looks probably the same now as it looked back in 1915, and we have better images from Prokudin-Gorskii. --Bernard 11:35, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - I have to say I'm pretty disappointed at how poor the quality of voting on FPC has become. I do hope the delisters have taken the time to find out that this is one of the earliest colour photographs ever taken (alternatively, this picture is really bad quality and ought to be delisted too). I should also point out that some blurring/colour registration problems are a necessary side effect of Prokudin-Gorskii's technique. As trialsanderrors points out, a larger size scan is available - I looked at tackling it myself a couple of years ago (after all I did find and clean up the featured pictures for Ansel Adams, Dorothea Lange and Lewis Hine). In this case I doubt that you would end up with anything much better than we have got at the moment. It would probably be wiser to spend the time cleaning up one of Prokudin-Gorskii's other photographs (check the Commons link - there are plenty), or properly determining which of his images is actually the earliest available. -- Solipsist 18:01, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Prokudin-Gorskii, while certainly a pioneer, was hardly among the first to take color photographs. There is also a good handful of images that were professionally restored by the Library of Congress, so if we want to depict P-G images in an "idealized" state we should take those. This picture here I would describe as "approximated original" state, in that it probably comes close to showing how the image was seen by contemporaries. The version I created would be a representation in the "current" state, including all damages that occurred over time. There are good reasons to feature one of each type, and I'm inclined to say that this would be a good representation for current state. The restoration, while pretty well done, doesn't match the efforts of the LoC. ~ trialsanderrors 21:06, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, he wasn't the first, but he was pretty much the first to do colour photography to a standard that you would say "that's a realistic picture". With respect to the professionally restored versions, it is interesting that they concentrate on the Alim Khan photo. This would be my first choice to represent P-G, its long been a featured picture on Commons and largely the image that made me decide it wasn't worth devoting much effort to trying to improve the quality of this one. Mind you, it look like there is an effort underway on Commons to delete all P-G photos for copyright reasons - which is a good example of why it would be foolish to devote much effort to improving or changing any of these photos. -- Solipsist 21:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Certainly a pioneering effort, but I doubt that his first image is more encyclopedically notable than his best image. Thanks for the notifier about the P-G deletion discussion. I posted my comment there. ~ trialsanderrors 23:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delist for now, without prejudice against renomination. Size is a problem, restoration quality is a minor problem (meaning it's a careful but not featured quality restoration), subject matter is a problem. All of those problems can be overcome with some effort, and I believe the image can be FP quality encyclopedic for the nuanced color gradation. Also, the image should be put into context so that readers who click through recognize its historic value. The discussion above is indicative that in its current state the message doesn't come across, and it seems like nobody is willing to put the effort into bringing this image up to speed. Maybe if I get a chance I'll do it later. ~ trialsanderrors 23:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delist. The size is ok but this picture doesn't really tell me very much about the city of Sochi, only that it is located close to some large body of water. I would vote to keep this as a featured picture if it were used in an article related to the history of photography. --KFP (talk | contribs) 23:45, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delist. It may be somewhat historic but there are better historic photos by the very same photographer. It doesn't illustrate any article particularly well. Diliff  | (Talk)   (Contribs) 13:57, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Delisted Raven4x4x 05:42, 13 January 2007 (UTC)