Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2013 October 21



File:Yotsuba-and-clover.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  20:28, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Yotsuba-and-clover.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Quasirandom ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Violation of WP:NFCC: the character is shown on the cover illustration in the infobox of the same article. Stefan2 (talk) 10:28, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Global networks front cover.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Keep. January ( talk ) 16:19, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Global networks front cover.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Easchiff ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Violates WP:NFCC: book cover in the article about the author. Stefan2 (talk) 14:23, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * My opinion is that removing this cover image, which shows Lombardi's artwork, is certainly detrimental to the reader's understanding; it is the only image of his artwork in this article. Without the image, the reader can have no understanding of the discussion in the immediately adjacent section. Could you clarify why you think the artwork is not connected to the discussion? Certainly the linkage between artwork and text could be improved, as could the fair use rationale. Easchiff (talk) 16:17, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * To add to what Easchiff says: all of the artist's works are in copyright, so there is no possibility of a free replacement, and to properly illustrate the article we need *some* piece of fair-use artwork by him. It wouldn't have to be this specific piece, but the image in question is indeed an image of one of the artist's works, and the book to which it is the cover is indeed discussed in the article (and nowhere else in Wikipedia) in both the works and post-mortem sections. And by reproducing the cover art of the book rather than one of the images from within the book, we do the least harm to the commercial interests of the book publisher (as book covers are widely available online e.g. at Amazon), and plausibly help those interests by making the book more widely known, strengthening the case for fair use (one point of which is that using the image in question should not be done in a way that harms the commercial interests of its copyright owner). The deletion rationale is flawed, as #8 is about images that don't advance the reader's understanding, and this one certainly does advance that understanding. (Also, Lombardi is not the author of the book, he is the artist whose art the book is about and one of whose artworks the book cover depicts.) Among all possible images of Lombardi's art, this is the one that best meets NFCC #2, as detailed above. And I believe it meets all the other NFCC conditions, none of which specifically prohibit book cover art in articles to which the art itself is relevant but whose primary topic is not the book itself. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:21, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Additionally, this specific artwork is of direct relevance to the article, because it's the one that connected George W. Bush with Osama bin Laden prior to the 2001 attacks and fueled interest in Lombardi's conspiracy theories after the attacks. I've added some text to the article (and another source) describing this connection in more detail. —David Eppstein (talk) 21:18, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I may have been too fast here: the purpose of the image is not only to show a book made by the person, but to show the person's art. --Stefan2 (talk) 21:21, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * In the meantime, I have updated the image's fair use rationale, which dated from 2006. The rationale should be clearer the next time the image attracts attention. And Eppstein has improved the article noticeably, so perhaps the outcome has been good. Lombardi and his art deserve a strong article. Easchiff (talk) 22:12, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Stefan - can we close this discussion now and remove the "under deletion consideration" tag on the image? Or is there something else that needs to be done to justify "fair use"? thanks, Easchiff (talk) 00:18, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The usual procedure would be to wait until at least October 28 to see whether other people might participate in the discussion. At that time or soon afterwards, an administrator will likely close the discussion. (I.e. it would not be appropriate for a discussion participant to close it.) —David Eppstein (talk) 00:30, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * OK. thanks. Easchiff (talk) 02:03, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep Considerable contextual significance since it gives an impression of Lombardi's work which cannot be conveyed satisfactorily in words (despite the valiant attempt!). Thincat (talk) 23:23, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:MMAN whenskens.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  21:11, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * File:MMAN whenskens.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Willemhenskens ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Unused. No foreseeable use. Stefan2 (talk) 14:48, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Aunt Mommy (Modern Family).jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  11:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Aunt Mommy (Modern Family).jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by TeamGale ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC: seemingly random photo of people sitting around a table. Stefan2 (talk) 17:01, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't understand why this file is being considered for deletion. It's a screenshot of the show Modern Family from the episode Aunt Mommy with fair use. It's not a "random photo of people sitting around a table". These four people are four of the main characters of the show and the scene is from a topic story of the specific episode. Can you please tell me what exactly is "wrong" with it? The reason I see here is not really convincing of why it should be deleted. Thanks TeamGale 17:11, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The problem is that the article isn't about the characters but about the episodes. If you need to know what the characters look like, then you read the article List of Modern Family characters. See also Wikipedia talk:Files for deletion/Archive 6. --Stefan2 (talk) 17:30, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The image is not to "need to know what the characters look like". I just said that it's not a "random picture of people" as you said. The specific scene portrays a moment from the episode's main story line that is mentioned in the article AND the critics' reviews. Based on the conclusions of that discussion (copy/pasting:  Is the specific content of the screenshot actually discussed in the body of the article itself? Is that discussion relevant to the rest of the article body? Is the image content discussed in ways that address more than simple plot exposition, but that describe other aspects such as production content or analysis of visual content by critics? If so, then the image likely passes NFCC#8 in an article on the episode. But if the image content is not mentioned in the article body at all, or only in a very cursory way, then the image is unlikely to pass NFCC#8. This seems to be the standard recommended by the community as a whole, and it is the standard I will apply.) the image passes NFCC#8 in my opinion.TeamGale 17:56, 21 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete People sitting at a table. Not discussed critically, seems to be used solely for the purpose of having an infobox photo. The uploader should check out A Hunka Hunka Burns in Love or Deep Throat (The X-Files episode) for examples of infobox photos that serve a point and aid the reader in understanding the article.  Taylor Trescott  - my talk + my edits 19:44, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I read the articles you posted. For someone who doesn't watch those shows, the image doesn't really help to "understand better" the episode as the image should portray according to the the rules. For example, personally, about the A Hunka Hunka Burns in Love article, I don't know how the basic model of Mr Burns is to "see" the difference in the image. This only someone who watches the show will "get" it. Speaking generally...what I understand is that whether a picture is helpful or not to the article is totally subjective and it comes to the admin who will eventually decide to delete it or not if it is. I am just trying to contribute to WP and trying to choose one of the many images that exist out there for each episode and would be helpful takes time... After getting two of them nominated for deletion tonight I feel disappointed. I respect the rules and I'll stick to text editing. I don't have time to searching for pics that will get deleted at the end nor time to "fight" for them. Thanks TeamGale 20:59, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:American Tragedy Cover 3.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  11:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:American Tragedy Cover 3.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by GroundZ3R0 002 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC: alternative cover. Stefan2 (talk) 17:16, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Chwost.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  11:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Chwost.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Sendu1984 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC and MOS:FILM. Stefan2 (talk) 17:32, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I feel it's important to have visual representation for the soundtrack to the film. Without this cover there isn't any. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sendu1984 (talk • contribs) 18:08, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Proposition Infinity.png

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  11:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Proposition Infinity.png ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Luminum ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC - does not significantly increase the reader's understanding of the topic.  Taylor Trescott  - my talk + my edits 19:35, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Egg Drop (Modern Family).jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  11:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Egg Drop (Modern Family).jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by TeamGale ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

A man pointing. And... that's about it. WP:NFCC, take it away.  Taylor Trescott  - my talk + my edits 19:37, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The image is fair use and a scene from one of the story lines of the episode that is mentioned in the article. Also, it was mentioned in the reviews of how it portrays the character being worried about his job. TeamGale 19:53, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but... it's a man pointing. Removal would not be very detrimental.  Taylor Trescott  - my talk + my edits 19:54, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah...it seems like it is but if you read the plot of the episode this image shows the character's feelings about the seminar going to a disaster. He is hyper due to worry and stress and the moment in the image is when he points a member of the audience who wants to ask a question. The specific character is always very calm and "cool" about his job and this is the first time we see him really worrying about things not going well...something that also the reviewers comment on and some gave credit to the writers for showing him worried for the first time. TeamGale 20:14, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I happened to come back to see if anything new happened and just wanted to add to this...you directed me to this article (A Hunka Hunka Burns in Love) in the previous post to see how an image aids the reader. With the same logic that the character there looks happy, here looks worried. Like I said on my previous comment to that post, only someone who watches the show can understand and "see" the difference. For the others an image of any kind is pointless. But again, that's only my opinion and if an image is helpful or not is totally subjective... Thanks again, I am done with images. I can use my time in better things. TeamGale 19:01, 1 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete Just a man pointing at something. --Stefan2 (talk) 21:19, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Pope in Prague.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  11:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Pope in Prague.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by NickGeorge1993 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Violates WP:NFCC. Stefan2 (talk) 20:41, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Definitely fails WP:NFCC#8 as the image could be simply replaced by the text of the caption. Nowhere in the article is Pope Benedict discussed except for the caption.  Image also fails WP:NFC#UUI#7 as the image is a press photo from the Catholic Press. -- Тимофей ЛееСуда .  22:17, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Amreunionost.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  11:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Amreunionost.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Sendu1984 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Violation of WP:NFCC and MOS:FILM. Stefan2 (talk) 20:52, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Amwedost.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  11:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Amwedost.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Sendu1984 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Violation of WP:NFCC and MOS:FILM. Stefan2 (talk) 20:53, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Ampie2ost.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  11:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Ampie2ost.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Sendu1984 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Violation of WP:NFCC and MOS:FILM. Stefan2 (talk) 20:53, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Deckthehallsost.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  11:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Deckthehallsost.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Sendu1984 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Violation of WP:NFCC and MOS:FILM. Stefan2 (talk) 20:53, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Americanpieost.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  11:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Americanpieost.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Sendu1984 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Violation of WP:NFCC and MOS:FILM. Stefan2 (talk) 20:54, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Cbgb film cover.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  11:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Cbgb film cover.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Sendu1984 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Violation of WP:NFCC and MOS:FILM. Stefan2 (talk) 20:54, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Satbsoundtrack.jpeg
<div class="boilerplate vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color:#f3f9ff; margin:1em 0 0 0; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #aaa;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  11:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Satbsoundtrack.jpeg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Sendu1984 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Violation of WP:NFCC and MOS:FILM. Stefan2 (talk) 20:55, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Loch Ard Gorge Sign.jpg
<div class="boilerplate vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color:#f3f9ff; margin:1em 0 0 0; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #aaa;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  21:11, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Loch Ard Gorge Sign.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Se7enLC ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Possibly unfree; however, deletion discussion should occur at Commons, as photograph is unused and thus ineligible for fair use. See. Magog the Ogre (t • c) 23:35, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete. I'm uncomfortable with a speedy F8 of the copy here, because it would be ineligible for F8 if/when the copy on commons is deleted. And I agree that the discussion of whether it is free or unfree should go on at commons. But if it is free then it should be deleted as a dup of a commons image, and if it is unfree it should be deleted as an orphaned unfree image without a rationale, so either way the decision on this side is the same. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:48, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Amphibiosan3.jpg
<div class="boilerplate vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color:#f3f9ff; margin:1em 0 0 0; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #aaa;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  11:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Amphibiosan3.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Boston ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC. Not discussed critically but used as decoration.  Taylor Trescott  - my talk + my edits 23:59, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Futurama ep50.jpg
<div class="boilerplate vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color:#f3f9ff; margin:1em 0 0 0; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #aaa;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  11:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Futurama ep50.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Raemie ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC. Not discussed critically but used as decoration.  Taylor Trescott  - my talk + my edits 23:59, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.