Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2014 March 7



File:Kismet1930PP.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  02:02, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * File:Kismet1930PP.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Zosimus Comes ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

This file fails NFCC #3a because there is already an image for the film, File:Kismet1930.jpg, in the infobox of the article. It also fails NFCC #8 because its omission from the article would not be detrimental to a readers understanding.  Green Giant  supports  NonFreeWiki  ( talk )  02:53, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:2 Unlimited Edge of Heaven Single Cover - UK.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  02:02, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * File:2 Unlimited Edge of Heaven Single Cover - UK.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Wozza20 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

This file fails WP:NFCCa, which requires a minimal number of items, because the article infobox contains another single cover (File:2 Unlimited Edge of Heaven Single Cover - Europe.jpg). It isn't necessary to keep both images.  Green Giant  supports  NonFreeWiki  ( talk )  03:40, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:2 Unlimited Sin Limites Cover - Chile.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  02:02, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * File:2 Unlimited Sin Limites Cover - Chile.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Wozza20 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

This file fails WP:NFCCa which requires minimal items, because the article it is used on already has an image in the infobox (File:2 Unlimited Sin Limites EP - US.jpg).  Green Giant  supports  NonFreeWiki  ( talk )  03:53, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete it's basically the same as the main image, just reformatted for cassette. Aquegg (talk) 20:26, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:2 Unlimited Hit Sin Limites Album Cover.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  02:02, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * File:2 Unlimited Hit Sin Limites Album Cover.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Wozza20 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

This file fails WP:NFCCa which requires minimal items because the article infobox already has a cover image (File:2 Unlimited Sin Limites EP - US.jpg).  Green Giant  supports  NonFreeWiki  ( talk )  03:54, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:2 Unlimited US Remixes Cover2.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  02:02, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * File:2 Unlimited US Remixes Cover2.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Wozza20 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCCa because the article does not need two images of covers, the other one being File:2 Unlimited US Remixes Cover.jpg.  Green Giant  supports  NonFreeWiki  ( talk )  04:00, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:2 Unlimited Wanna Get Up Single Cover - UK.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  02:02, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * File:2 Unlimited Wanna Get Up Single Cover - UK.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Wozza20 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCCa because the article does not need two images of covers, the other one being File:2 Unlimited Wanna Get Up Single Cover - Europe.jpg.  Green Giant  supports  NonFreeWiki  ( talk )  04:02, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Appointed successor Dai syedi Muffadal BS saifuddin along side Dai Burhanuddin.pdf

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  02:02, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * File:Appointed successor Dai syedi Muffadal BS saifuddin along side Dai Burhanuddin.pdf ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Md iet ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

The image in this PDF was abstracted and transferred to Commons as File:Appointed successor Dai syedi Muffadal BS saifuddin along side Dai Burhanuddin.jpg. Ineligible for speedy deletion because this is a different format (and has a small caption on the bottom). Magog the Ogre (t • c) 05:13, 7 March 2014 (UTC) The caption is being modified by me, please wait till then.--Md iet (talk) 04:40, 8 March 2014 (UTC) Caption modified, file may pl. not be deleted.--Md iet (talk) 05:48, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete because the image itself is available at Commons. The caption was only half of the problem (i.e. WP:NPOV) because of the succession dispute; the other half of the problem is that it is in PDF format rather than any of the acceptable formats like jpg, png or svg.  Green Giant  supports  NonFreeWiki  ( talk )  18:28, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Logo for Internet User IanSan5653.svg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  12:07, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * File:Logo for Internet User IanSan5653.svg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by IanSan5653 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Unused personal file Sfan00 IMG (talk) 10:15, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:2010 Ten Jump LE cover.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  02:02, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * File:2010 Ten Jump LE cover.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Yuuchirou ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

This file is one of two used in the infobox of Hey! Say! 2010 TEN JUMP, along with File:2010 Ten jump cover.jpg. Contrary to the fair use rationale, this file is not the primary visual image associated with the work and there is no critical commentary which depends on this file. The file fails WP:NFCCa which requires minimal items and WP:NFCC because the omission of this file would not be detrimental to a readers understanding of the subject matter.  Green Giant  supports  NonFreeWiki  ( talk )  19:07, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:2013 abl champ.png

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  02:02, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * File:2013 abl champ.png ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Afaber012 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

This logo fails WP:NFCC because although it is used alongside a section which discusses part of the post-season, omission of this file would not be detrimental to a readers understanding of the subject matter.  Green Giant  supports  NonFreeWiki  ( talk )  20:52, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:2013 abl prelim.png

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  02:02, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * File:2013 abl prelim.png ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Afaber012 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

This logo fails WP:NFCC because although it is used alongside a section which discusses part of the post-season, omission of this file would not be detrimental to a readers understanding of the subject matter.  Green Giant  supports  NonFreeWiki  ( talk )  20:52, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Ureteric balloon catheter.jpeg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted as F7 by AnomieBOT ⚡  11:09, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * File:Ureteric balloon catheter.jpeg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by FrancisFranck ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Image is a (c) one of a currently used/available medical device. A freely liceneed image of this could be taken. Image fails WP:NFCC. This is a duplicate of the same image on commons, though that one is freely licensed but tagged for lacking permission. Peripitus (Talk) 21:07, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Poetry (magazine) April 2008 cover.jpg

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: There seems to be consensus on this image that it's use is within policy because although there is a public domain cover of the magazine, it is not an accurate representation of the more recent magazine, and therefore it is not replaceable. This consensus is just for this one specific image and should not be interpreted to mean that this situation would always be acceptable.  TLSuda  (talk) 23:16, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
 * File:Poetry (magazine) April 2008 cover.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Gobonobo ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fair-use images are only to be used when no free image is likely to be found. The magazine was established in 1912, and the first-edition cover is already on Commons and ready for use. As such, there should be no need to use a fair-use cover. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:42, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep: The magazine cover you would use, published by Harriet Monroe is entitled Poetry: A Magazine of Verse, the current magazine Poetry, published by the Poetry Foundation, is the primary subject of the article, whereas it's prior incarnation is not. It's not therefore a valid replacement. Alanscottwalker (talk) 00:57, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete - The free image is used in the article and the article is clearly about all incarnations of the magazine from 1912 onwards. I don't see what significant understanding of the topic I'm supposed to gain by seeing a modern as opposed to older cover. There is no commentary on the images artwork at all and the artwork seems to change with each edition. This image looks then purely decorative as it only identifies a single edition, rather than the magazine. The free 1912 image looks to be a more than adequate substitute - Peripitus (Talk) 05:58, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
 * 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Relisting comment: Originally from Files for deletion/2014 February 25.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Acather96 (click here to contact me) 21:11, 7 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete because a free file is available and in the article. There is nothing particularly vital about the modern cover which necessitates its inclusion in the article.  Green Giant  supports  NonFreeWiki  ( talk )  02:27, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment This might affect lots of articles about old publications. I notice unfree images of recent issues in many articles about newspapers older than 100 years: Dagens Nyheter, The Guardian, Svenska Dagbladet, Hufvudstadsbladet and Politiken, just to name a few. --Stefan2 (talk) 14:19, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment The proposed replacement misrepresents the article subject and does not present the topic in an encyclopedic fashion. The proposed replacement which does not look anything like the current magazine, says it is copyrighted by Harriet Monroe, and it has a different title then the current magazine.  The current magazine is not copyrighted by Harriet Monroe - contrary to the proposed image, and does not have that title.  It is Wikipedia practice to use images of the current publication not what they were 100 years ago, because the article is about a modern publication. Alanscottwalker (talk) 00:04, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep This is a bit silly.  The century-old historical cover is not an alternative to the modern one.  Imagine if this weren't a publication, but a notable (dead) person.  One picture of the person as a baby just came out of copyright protection, but none of the pictures of the person as an adult are.  Are we really going to delete all the fair-use pictures on the day that one baby picture becomes free, and leave the article illustrated with a single baby picture?  It would be silly.  So is deleting a modern magazine image just because one image of the century-plus-old first edition happens to be free.  The point behind showing a (one) magazine cover is to help people recognize it and give them a sense of its current self-presentation.  A century-old cover does not achieve either of these goals.   WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:54, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Considering the image of the person as a baby would probably be out of copyright after an image of the person as an adult, at least in the US (baby pictures are rarely published at the time they are taken, whereas an image of a notable person taken at their prime is likely to be published soon after; under current US copyright laws, there are plenty of cases where the baby pictures could be in copyright while the adult pictures are PD) I don't think this is a very strong comparison. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:41, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep. Concur with WamId that it's ridiculous to replace it with an image that isn't even identifiable as the same publication, just because it happened to exceed copyright protection. And Crisco, baby pictures get published rather regularly in newspaper birth announcements. It was even common a century ago with children of well-to-do families - exactly the sort of people who are more likely to have wikipedia articles written about them a hundred years on. VanIsaacWS<sup style="margin-left:-3.0ex">cont 09:22, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment: In order to make explicit, here, the reason for Keep mentioned above, if one looks across the project at modern publication articles (with some pre-1923 publication history) the editorial consensus is against this nominations use of the NFCC to delete modern publication images used for identification. The use of this image should therefore be returned from this deletion discussion to the article and its editors, so that they may in discretion appropriately use the image. Alanscottwalker (talk) 17:17, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment Extending my "comment" !vote above in light of the recent comments, I think that it would be better to have a wider RfC on the matter before deciding what to do with this image. If you go to a shop, you see modern newspapers, not 19th century newspapers. On the other hand, the 19th century newspapers are strictly speaking the same product, although with older typographic standards. --Stefan2 (talk) 22:43, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Don't forget "older content standards". What's considered acceptable to include or exclude has changed at least as radically as the typography.  If we posted a summary of century-old content and left out the information from recent decades, people would not consider the article to be complete at all.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:47, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:2014 Social riot in Bosnia damaged cantonal government building.jpeg
<div class="boilerplate vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color:#f3f9ff; margin:1em 0 0 0; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #aaa;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted as F7 by AnomieBOT ⚡  01:02, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
 * File:2014 Social riot in Bosnia damaged cantonal government building.jpeg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Adnan Hz 97 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

This unfree file fails WP:NFCC because the article it is being used in (2014 unrest in Bosnia and Herzegovina) has another nine free Commons files which depict the social unrest more than adequately. Omitting this file would not be detrimental to a reader's understanding of the subject matter.  Green Giant  supports  NonFreeWiki  ( talk )  21:22, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:2014 social riots Bosnian presidency building.jpeg
<div class="boilerplate vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color:#f3f9ff; margin:1em 0 0 0; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #aaa;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted as F7 by AnomieBOT ⚡  01:02, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
 * File:2014 social riots Bosnian presidency building.jpeg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Adnan Hz 97 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

This unfree file fails WP:NFCC because the article it is being used in (2014 unrest in Bosnia and Herzegovina) has another nine free Commons files which depict the social unrest more than adequately. Omitting this file would not be detrimental to a reader's understanding of the subject matter.  Green Giant  supports  NonFreeWiki  ( talk )  21:22, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Æon Flux promotional film poster.jpg
<div class="boilerplate vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color:#f3f9ff; margin:1em 0 0 0; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #aaa;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  16:12, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * File:Æon Flux promotional film poster.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Genidealingwithfairuse ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

This file has a fair use rationale for a section of Æon Flux the series, which covers the film Æon Flux (film). However the image is not necessary to help a reader because the section links to the article about the film, and in that article there is already another movie poster, File:Aeon flux poster.jpg. This file fails WP:NFCC - using a minimal number of items.  Green Giant  supports  NonFreeWiki  ( talk )  22:06, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:USM Bel-Abbès (logo).png
<div class="boilerplate vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color:#f3f9ff; margin:1em 0 0 0; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #aaa;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  02:02, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * File:USM Bel-Abbès (logo).png ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Faycal.09 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Former logo without critical discussion. Fails WP:NFCC. Stefan2 (talk) 22:14, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * It was a former official logo (pic from lebuteur.com). Fayçal.09 (talk) 20:39, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Priya Sharma 1.jpg
<div class="boilerplate vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color:#f3f9ff; margin:1em 0 0 0; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #aaa;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  02:02, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * File:Priya Sharma 1.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Raintheone ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC, see File:Priya Sharma (fictional character).jpg. Stefan2 (talk) 23:14, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator, because although the two pictures are of different people, they are mean't to be of the same character.  Green Giant  supports  NonFreeWiki  ( talk )  02:29, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.