Wikipedia:Files for deletion/Replaceable fair use/File:Justin Guarini Promo Photo Blue.jpg


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of a fair use image as a replaceable image. Please do not modify it. 

The result was to delete the image.

—Angr 09:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Licensing


Response: As stated previously, this picture is (one of two) promotional pictures currently authorized for use by Justin Guarini, and was freely provided by Justin's mother for use by his fans. Justin Guarini's representative has been contacted via email asking for a specific statement allowing for required "free license".

However, the representative is out of the country until Jan.8, 2007, so an extension on the deadline for deleting the picture (Jan. 9, 2007) would be appreciated in order for the representative to have time to respond to request.

Summary Note: Since this picture is one of two promotional pictures approved by and provided by Guarini for use by fans, we feel the picture qualifies for "irreplacable". If/when the picture status changes, then so would the "irreplaceable" status.
 * Although it is one of two promotional pictures, it illustrates a living person who still makes public appearances. So, the image "illustrates a subject for which a free image that provides substantially the same information might reasonably be found or created" and should not be used under fair use.  I would support waiting to decide on the image's replaceability until after January 9 or 10 in case the agent does license it freely.  However, if the image is deleted and it is later freely released, I've saved it (and you are welcome to as well) so that it can be uploaded to the Wikimedia Commons (iff it becomes free).  —ShadowHalo 12:07, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm deleting it as replaceable. If it later becomes free, let me know and I'll undelete it and move it to Commons. —Angr 09:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. 

Update: (copied from User talk:Bkstone)

Response to image challenge: Free license approved.(Confirmation below that image in dispute is free) Note: Below info was posted on Image page by Guarini's official site webmaster, per Guarini's management representative. Bkstone 00:31, 16 January 2007 (UTC) Summary

Promotional Photo of Justin Guarini. Photographer: Christine Cain-Weidner www.cain-weidnerstudio.com Email: christine@cain-weidnerstudio.com

File is freely available at JustinGuarini.com http://www.justinguarini.com/images/jblue.jpg

Licensing

Follow-up: Please remove the image challenge noted on article page and here. Image has been proved free. Bkstone 01:22, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Follow-up on picture's deletion: (copied from User talk:Angr) The image removed was proved free by Guarini's management, and documented on appropriate pages. There is absolutely no merit for it's deletion. If you do not replace the picture, I will. If we continue to be harrassed, I wish to speak to someone in authority over you. I've been polite dealing with this repeatedly, but enough is enough. NOTE: See below for the updates that were included on required discussion pages days ago.

Bkstone 17:51, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, I'm still not finding evidence that the picture has been released under CC-BY-SA. I can't find anything at either http://www.justinguarini.com/ or http://www.cain-weidnerstudio.com/ about it; both sites have normal copyright statements. What are the "appropriate pages" where the image's freeness has been proved? And keep in mind, "free" in this context doesn't mean "no charge to use it", it means "anyone can use it for any legal purpose, including commercial uses and derivative works" (see gratis vs. libre). If the copyright holders have told you they'll release it under CC-BY-SA, please have them send an e-mail to permissions@wikimedia.org to confirm this. —Angr 18:44, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Response: Wiki is a complicated maze of different links and pages to provide info. The info was provided here (by Guarini's representative), copied onto my discussion page where the first notice of deletion was posted, and provided on the Image description page I can no longer locate. I am not tech savvy enough or have time enough to study Wiki's overly complicated system, and no amatuer contributor should be expected to when what has already been provided clearly shows the image meets the guideline "anyone can use it for any legal purpose, including commercial uses and derivative works". I think it ridiculous to once again bother his rep with something like this. This relentless cycle of changing demands for documentation feels like faux legal nit-picking, if not harrassment. I can either bother Guarini's rep again or replace the image, I haven't decided. However, I might want to discuss my concerns with someone in a position of authority over you.

Please tell me who else I can discuss my concerns with, if I feel inclined to do so. Bkstone 19:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I suppose the best place to take it up is Wikipedia talk:Copyrights. —Angr 20:08, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Response: Thanks, but looks like another merry-go-round. Is there no direct contact w/ a supervisor to get a reply concerning the latest condition (gratis vs. libre)? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but the image has been discussed and "resolved" numerous times w/ decisions changing at the whim of various admins. (Note: Entire history of various requirements/compliance is missing from this page)
 * What the problem comes down to is your original statement, "Photo was posted on-line in 2005 by Kathy Guarini, Justin's mother, with only the requirement that photo be attributed to photographer Christine Cain-Weidner." First of all, we need independent verification (not just your word for it) that Kathy Guarini (1) really did release it under those terms, (2) intended those terms to mean "any legal use, including commercial re-use and derivative works, and (3) had the authority to release Christine Cain-Weidner's photograph under those terms (normally the photographer herself decides under what conditions a photograph is released). If you can provide a link to a page showing these things, please do and I'll undelete the image. Or if you're in touch with Kathy Guarini, please have her e-mail permissions@wikimedia.org stating the terms under which she releases the photograph (assuming she has the authority to do so). —Angr 17:14, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Response: Thank you. That is clearer to me, I can work with those specifics. I really am not comfortable bothering his mother with this again (I did so in 2006 with Wiki's prior met demands). Instead, I will again contact his managment company who controls the usage of pictures, and is paid to take care of such things. It was the management rep that physically provided the update at Wiki for the latest Wiki requirement. Also, I will ask him if there are addtional images for future use which he can document, so we don't have to go through this kind of hassle again.

'''To be 100% clear... all you need is an email from his management rep stating:'''

(1) image(s) provided for use at Wiki is (are) released under terms meaning "any legal use, including commercial re-use and derivative works, and

(2) the rep has the authority to release Christine Cain-Weidner's photograph (or any other images's provided) under those terms

Please verify above statement written by me is everything that is required by including a statement by you saying it meets all requirements. Thanks. Bkstone 22:28, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * To the best of my knowledge, the above points (1) and (2) are indeed everything required. See WP:ERP for some suggestions about how to word your request. —Angr 22:39, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

'''For record keeping purposes (in case needed), I am copying below what I had saved of some of the previous demands/discussions/resolutions about this image: (copied from User talk:Brookstone) -

''Thanks for uploading Image:CainWeidner2.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then you can use GFDL-self to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Shyam ( T / C ) 22:58, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Response: '''Complied on March 9, 2006. Bkstone 06:41, 14 April 2006 (UTC)'''


 * I have restored the "no source" tag, as the image description page still does not show a source. ie you need to provide a url link to the website the picture came from, or if it came from other than a website you need to specify exactly where the the image was obtained from. Stating the name of the photographer is good, but it does not allow other users to verify that the use of the image is fair. Please have another look at this. Rossrs 21:40, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Response:

-Promotional headshot of Justin Guarini. Photo was posted on-line in 2005 by Kathy Guarini, Justin's mother, with only the requirement that photo be attributed to photographer Christine Cain-Weidner. The photo appears on several websites. Currently also being used in promo material for event for Guarini's new movie.

-Info added to Image Discription page.


 * What do you mean "info added to Image Description page"? Info has not been added. No edits have been made since I reverted the tag. The idea is that the description page should include all information needed to determine that the image use is fair. You've said far more here than on the description page. A link to one of the websites is necessary, in addition to the info you've given here. Could you please have another look at this? thanks Rossrs 11:50, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

RESPONSE:

-I wrote something up and thought I had pasted all of it onto the "Image Description Page". Part of it is there. . Will redo.

'''To make sure I'm clear on this... to avoid further problems.''' All that is needed is an explanation and website link(s) on the "Image Description Page'?


 * Yes, that's right, and what you've done to fix this problem, is very good and better than most image desciption pages. As per Image description page and Fair use you need to supply 1. a source, 2. information about copyright holder 3. notate the page with a suitable tag (these are all done now) plus supply a "fair use rationale". The "fair use rationale" at the moment is not being treated as compulsory, although it is the right thing to do. It's not necessary to put the copyright info in the image caption box in the article namespace - just the description page - so I've removed that. Thanks for responding to this in such a speedy and thorough manner. Rossrs 15:06, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

This will be copied onto the Image Description Page:

SOURCES:

-Promotion picture owned by Guarini was provided by his mother (aka Phoenix) to fans for use (posted on Feb 13, 2005). The only requirement was to acknowledge the photographer whenever possible.

Originally posted at this website: []

HQ section: []

-The pics has been used on various websites: Example website gallery section: []

-publications: Example here (magazine scan): []

-for promotional events: Example: []

-etc.

Bkstone 14:51, 20 April 2006 (UTC) Bkstone 22:28, 30 January 2007 (UTC)