Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2016 February 16



File:KZ Radio Logo.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: speedy deleted per WP:G7 by North America1000 10:38, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * File:KZ Radio Logo.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by BigrTex ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Non-free logo being used in WKZY. File has a non-free use rationale, which seemed OK when the file was being used as the primary means of identification in the main infobox like in this previous version of the article before the logo was moved to WKZY with by an IP. If the logo is now a former logo, then using is such a way is decorative and no longer satisfies WP:NFCC since the logo itself is not the subject of any sourced commentary within the article. So, I suggest remove from article, unless it is possible to license this as PD-logo or the NFCC#8 issue can be resolved in some other way. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:41, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
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File:DFBEagle.svg

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The result of the discussion was: keep in Germany national football team, remove all other instances. — ξ xplicit  02:33, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * File:DFBEagle.svg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Bleedingshoes ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Non-free logo being used in German Football Association, Germany national football team, and Germany national under-21 football team. File has a non-free use rationale for each usage, but it's seems that only the usage in "Germany national football team" satisfies WP:NFCC. "German Football Association" uses File:DFBTriangles.svg as its primary means of identification (which is quite different) and the four stars (representing the four times the men's team has one the World Cup) seem to be specific enough to the men's national team to consider it the parent entity under No. 17 of WP:NFC and the "Germany national under-21 football team" the child entity. So, I suggest keep for "German national football team" and remove from "Germany national under-21 football team".

Regarding the usage in "German Football Association#History", there is mention of the men's team winning four World Cups, but the logo itself is not the subject of any sourced commentary within in the article and contextual significance required by WP:NFCC is not really provided. I can see omitting the logo might be detrimental to the reader's understanding if there was more discussion of it in the article, but the current usage seems to fail NFCC#8. So, suggest remove from "German Football Association", unless the NFCC#8 issues can be resolved. -- 01:20, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
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File:DFBTriangles.svg

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The result of the discussion was: remove from German amateur football championship. — ξ xplicit  02:33, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * File:DFBTriangles.svg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Bleedingshoes ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Non-free logo being used in German Football Association and German amateur football championship. A non-free use rationale is provided for each usage, but only the usage in "German Football Association" seems to satisfy WP:NFCC. The association organizes the amateur championships, but generally the use of an organizer's logo is not automatically allowed for articles about the events they organize per numbers 14 and 17 of WP:NFC. A logo specific to the championship itself may be used, but the organizer's logo should not be used by default if no such logo exists or can be found (since the championships are no longer held). So, I suggest keep for "German Football Association" and remove for "German amateur football championship". -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:31, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
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File:DFB 1911.png

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The result of the discussion was: convert to PD-logo. — ξ xplicit  02:33, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * File:DFB 1911.png ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Wiggy! ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Non-free logo being used in German Football Association. File has a non-free use rationale, but I don't think the way it's currently used satisfies WP:NFCC. The logo itself is not the subject of any sourced commentary within the article so the contextual significance required by NFCC#8 is lacking. The age of the file, however, might make it OK as PD-US-1923-abroad since the file's description say the logo was the one used circa 1911. The file's usage would not be subject to WP:NFCC if it were freely licensed and, therefore, NFCC#8 would be not apply. So, I suggest remove from "German Football Association", unless the file can be changed from non-free to some sort of free license. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:44, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Note that the earlier logo of the DFB from 1900 has actually been uploaded to Commons as File:DFB-Logo 1900.svg with the rationale that it does not have the necessary level of Threshold of originality to be protected. Given that the 1911 logo is fundamentally the same with just a different colour combination and both logos are of similar age I would think that both should have the same status, either free or not free. Calistemon (talk) 02:29, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
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File:Banco Santander.svg

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The result of the discussion was: keep as is. WP:NFC calls for the removal of the "logo of an entity used for identification of one of its child entities, when the child entity lacks their own branding". However, unlike most of these types of cases brought to FFD, and as User:Cloudbound pointed out, these subsidiaries all adopted the same logo. The child entities don't lack a branding; this is their branding. I believe that this argument was well presented, and this logo in the subsidiary articles is not used in the sense where NFC calls for their removal. — ξ xplicit  02:33, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Banco Santander.svg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Gr1st ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Non-free logo being used in Banco Santander, Banco Santander-Chile, Santander Bank, Santander Brasil, Santander Group, and Santander UK. A non-free use rationale is provided for each usage, but I only think the usage in "Santander Group" satisfies WP:NFCC. All of the other banks are described as subsidiaries of the Santander Group, and thus would be considered child entities per No. 17 of WP:NFC. Individual logos specific to each bank may be acceptable in their respective articles, but the parent logo should not be used by default if no such logos exist. Suggest keep for "Santander Group" and remove for the remaining articles. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:45, 16 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep for all current uses: Each use of the logo is for a company that is a legal entity in its own right. Yes, they share the same logo, but that is not in the absence of a unique one, it is because that is the logo each has adopted. There are no positive outcomes editorially in removing these logos from their respective articles, and I consider it to be a disruptive change. Readers would consider it odd for a logo to have been omitted, and I daresay another editor finding the articles like that would add the file back or upload another. Cloudbound (talk) 21:13, 16 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep and change the license to PD-logo and Do not move to Commons per Marchjuly's concern below. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 22:23, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Not sure if this falls below the threshold of originality typically required for "PD-logo" because Spanish copyright law might consider even simple looking logos like this to be protected by copyright; however, it might be acceptable as PD-USonly and would not be subject to WP:NFCC if it is. Otherwise, if the logo is determined to be non-free or too close to call, then previous WP:FFD/WP:NFCR discussions involving similar logos have almost always resulted in non-free use only being considered acceptable for article about the parent entity regardless of whether the child entities use the same logo. One recent similar discussion I remember was Wikipedia:Non-free content review/Archive 72, but there have been others such as Wikipedia:Non-free content review/Archive 54. In the former, the logo was removed and replaced by a free equivalent. In the latter, the logo 's licensing was changed to "PD-USonly". Even so, the arguments made in those discussions that non-free parent logos are not generally allowed in articles about child entities would also apply to this particular case this logo remains non-free. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:01, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
 * In the case of File:Arriva logo.svg, which was related to the FirstGroup logo review, it was decided in December that the logo would remain fair use, also used for a subsidiary. Personally I think this is a non-free file, but its use in the current set of articles is justified, and I reaffirm my belief that their removal would be disruptive. Cloudbound (talk) 09:34, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's anything disruptive about discussing whether the particular usage of a non-free file satisfies WP:NFCC. Going against whatever the consensus/close of this discussion turns out to be, however, might be considered disruptive. I still do not see how this type of usage is appropriate per UUI#17: All of the individual banks are clearly described as subsidiaries of Santander Group, which means the group's logo does not automatically become their default logo even if they lack their own specific logo. Anyway, for reference Banco Santander-Chile uses this on their official Twitter and Facebook pages while Santander Brasil, Banco Santander, Santander UK and Santander Bank respectively use this, this, this and this for their official apps. It seems that specific logos/images which would serve the same encyclopedic purpose for each individual bank and which would resolve the UUI#17 issues do exist, so again it's not clear why the logo for the parent organization needs to be used in each of these child entity articles. -- Marchjuly (talk) 11:26, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Fails WP:NFC#17 in all other current uses except for Santander Group. As notes, each subsidiary has adopted the same logo. NFCCUU#I7 specifically notes that it's unacceptable to display the same logo on those articles even "when the child entity lacks their own branding" (WP:NFC#17). FFD is a venue for enforcing NFC, and usually enforcing it means removing images (see WP:NFCCE). This is not, in my opinion, disruptive editing. It's due process that ensures that when "global" consensus (NFC policy) is applied on the "local" level articles and files that are brought here, this too happens on a consensus basis. Nothing could be further from disruptive editing. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 14:53, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I said that the removal of the logos would be disruptive, not discussing their removal. Also, in case there is any suggestion or expectation, I will not defy the decision made here. Each subsidiary uses that logo as it is their logo, not because they have nothing else. App icons are not comparable with the actual logos used by banks on branch signs, advertising, posters, cards, cheques, etc. No offence but it would be ridiculous to replace a bank's logo with its app logo in an article.
 * Sorry if it seemed I was implying that you were intending to go against the consensus because that was not my intent. The point I was trying to make was better stated above by . While I agree that simply removing the image as a form of "vandalism" is probably disruptive, if a clear-cut reason for doing so (e.g., NFCC concerns) is given in the edit sum, then I personally would assume the removal was done in good faith and then try and work from there. As for each subsidiary uses that [their parent organization's] logo as it is their logo, not because they have nothing else, the same argument seems to have made many times before in other NFCR/FFD discussions regarding the similar usage of similar logos and in most of the cases I've seen the consensus tends to be not to allow such usage. Subdivisions/subsidiaries of sports teams, educational institutions, media companies, international corporations, etc., could all say the same since they often do use their parent's logo for promotion, merchandising, etc., but the usage of the logo in their respective Wikipedia articles has been generally considered not to be NFCC compliant per UUI#17 and NFCC#3. WP:LOGO says "Company logos may appear in articles on those companies, but note that, if challenged, it is the responsibility of those who wish to include the logo to prove that its use meets Wikipedia non-free content criteria.", and I just don't see how omitting the logo from articles about subsidiaries of the Santander Group is a "big step backwards" or detrimental to the reader's understanding of what is written in those articles. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:53, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
 * The logo is the group's logo just as much as it is each subsidiary's logo. Each one is registered as a trademark in each subsidiary's country. The NFCC concern is that the parent logo is used instead of an individual logo. The fact is that the individual logo is also the parent logo. Cloudbound (talk) 11:33, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
 * It would be disruptive in terms of a big step backwards for the article. Each file has a clear purpose for being in each article. If there is a decent alternative to the logo files then I welcome all suggestions, but if the result is they are simply commented out by another user in a passing edit then I cannot support that action. Consider the reader here and what their expectation of the article will be. Cloudbound (talk) 23:54, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
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File:Alpha Chi Honor Society Logo.png

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  03:02, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Alpha Chi Honor Society Logo.png ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Jasond101 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC in Waldorf College. This should only be used in Alpha Chi National College Honor Society, but the dupe File:Alpha Chi National Honor Society Shield.png is already used there. Stefan2 (talk) 09:25, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. Obvious NFCC violation. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by administrators since 2006.  (talk) 18:18, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
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File:Fina.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  03:02, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Fina.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Elfguy ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC in all articles in which this is used. Fails WP:NFCC: the stated source is obviously not correct. Fails WP:NFCC: the FUR contains no evidence that WP:NFCC is satisfied. Stefan2 (talk) 09:56, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep and change license to PD-logo. Individual words and the simple map of the earth are both not eligible for copyright protection in U.S. Maybe the map is copyright-eligible elsewhere. Investigate and tag with Do not move to Commons if applicable. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 22:29, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, maps are typically subject to copyright protection, so PD-textlogo doesn't seem to apply. --Stefan2 (talk) 14:09, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with . The map is not a simple enough shape to be below the threshold of originality. It is, however, possible that the map used in the logo is PD by some other virtue (ie. expiry if published separately before), but this would have to be proven. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 14:23, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Who said anything about "simple enough"? (I said "simple map".) It is not eligible because its copyright has expired over 200 years ago. Map of a modern city is copyright-protected, yes. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 20:28, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
 * in that case, please provide the original publication date for this map. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:45, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
 * 1831 I believe. Could have been drawn earlier but Royal Geographical Society published it then. I guess the time when people wrote "Here be dragons" on the maps doesn't count. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 20:58, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Are you sure that this is exactly the same map as the one drawn in 1831? Different maps of the same location are typically very similar but nevertheless have separate copyrights. Compare, for example, maps from Google and Openstreetmap of the same location, and you will find that they are quite similar. --Stefan2 (talk) 14:33, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
 * It is a miniature map of the globe, pal! Your concern is far below de minimis. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 15:34, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
 * It's not de minimis at all. The globe takes about half of the image. It's a central and essential part of it. If it's a copyrightable element, then its use here is not de minimis. See c:Commons:De minimis. If you are arguing that no one probably cares who owns the copyright, it's an issue that falls under the c:Commons:Project scope/Precautionary principle (ie. in fact, we do care). If you think this is PD by virtue of de minimis, please proceed to move this to Commons and we'll see what happens, . – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 04:37, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Whoa! Misreading my comment and running miles with it! (I said Stefan2's concern is de minimis, not the map itself.) I already told you: The map's copyright is long expired. It is not even a map; it is an approximation of the globe. Let's all calm down and read one another's comments rationally, right? Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 22:03, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
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File:Lamont Sincere.jpeg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  03:02, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Lamont Sincere.jpeg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Imsosincere ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Unneeded photograph of a non-notable musician uploaded to be used in a promotional autobiography. Kindzmarauli (talk) 17:35, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete per criterion F4 for having neither source nor license. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 22:25, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Image appears on the subject's Soundcloud and YouTube pages. While it's likely that the uploader owns the copyright, an OTRS ticket is needed. — Diannaa (talk) 02:26, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
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File:Mssvs4unix+cmd.PNG

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  03:02, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Mssvs4unix+cmd.PNG ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by RaviC ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Low quality. Superseded by File:C Shell running on SUA.png and File:Korn Shell running on SUA.png. Codename Lisa (talk) 22:17, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
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