Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2016 March 13



File:Fractal.gif

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by A file with this name on Commons is now visible. AnomieBOT ⚡ 19:12, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Fractal.gif ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Naqahdah ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Unused low-quality fractal. No foreseeable use. Stefan2 (talk) 00:12, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. Reh  man  23:30, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:CJ Fair Free Throw, 2008.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  19:12, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * File:CJ Fair Free Throw, 2008.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Amerikasmuse ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Unused low-res crop of File:City College guard CJ Fair preps for free throw, Jan 2008.jpg F ASTILY  00:16, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. Reh  man  23:31, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:Flag of KDP.png

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by A file with this name on Commons is now visible. AnomieBOT ⚡ 06:04, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Flag of KDP.png ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Kermanshahi ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

The main problem with the image(s) is we don't have the date it was published, but according to this template "[Iraq] is not a participant in the Berne Convention or any other treaty on copyright with the United States". Because of this, the image seems to be out-of-copyright in both countries. ©  Tb hotch ™ (en-2.5). 02:09, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi. For what are you nominating the image? Deletion? If it is not copyrighted (as you say "out-of-copytight"), then it stands to reason to keep it, not delete it. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 12:18, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry, ping is disallowed. The file is almost the same the file "File:Flag of KDP.png" located at Commons. I don't see how having two-really-similar-of-a-kind is helpful for both projects. As I noted, there are no copyrights in Iraq (US/EU-Iraq agreements), so requesting it to be kept here because it "is believed to be non-free or possibly non-free in its home country, Iraq." is misleading. ©   Tb hotch ™ (en-2.5). 20:22, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * We do not have any evidence that the age requirements in the template are satisfied. --Stefan2 (talk) 16:16, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The Commons file should probably be nominated for deletion as well, seeing as it's pretty much identical to this version, if it isn't PD in Iraq.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Is PD-logo alone not enough to keep this file? Does Iraq have more stringent threshold? Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 16:48, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * There is no section about Iraq at c:COM:TOO, so it is unclear how high the Iraqi threshold is. --Stefan2 (talk) 15:27, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Seems like a sign that we have nothing to worry about. Is there sufficient doubt to warrant resorting to Commons cautionary principle? —Codename Lisa (talk) 12:28, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:Golden Tornado (Georgia Tech, 1917).png

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  21:14, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Golden Tornado (Georgia Tech, 1917).png ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by MisterCake ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Unused, inferior version of File:1917 Georgia Tech backfield.jpg F ASTILY  06:30, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. Reh  man  23:32, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:William Cecil, 1st Baron Burghley.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  19:12, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * File:William Cecil, 1st Baron Burghley.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Lord Emsworth ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Unused, scaled down, off-color, inferior version of File:William Cecil, 1st Baron Burghley from NPG (2).jpg F ASTILY  06:31, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. Reh  man  23:32, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:Thriftboard1.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  19:12, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Thriftboard1.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by 6a4fe8aa039615ebd9ddb83d6acf9a1dc1b684f7 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Unused, inferior version of File:US-FRTIB-Seal.svg F ASTILY  06:42, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. Reh  man  23:33, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:Logonotuploaded.png

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  18:10, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Logonotuploaded.png ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by John Zdralek ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

unused image which consists of purely white pixels. Not encyclopedic F ASTILY  08:40, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. Unused. Reh  man  23:33, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:BeethovenOp78.png

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  19:12, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * File:BeethovenOp78.png ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Wahoofive ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

unused in mainspace, superior version available at File:BeethovenOp78.svg F ASTILY  09:07, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:Pilot Plant.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  19:12, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Pilot Plant.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Abnoba12 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Image of which this is scanned does not appear to have free license (I don't know if New York State files are free by default, but an original being "open for everyone to see and use" asserted by someone who doesn't claim to own the license is free-as-in-beer only). DMacks (talk) 09:40, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:Border City Fire Department (crest).jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  19:12, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Border City Fire Department (crest).jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Abnoba12 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Potentially non-free logo (and unsed per Articles for deletion/Border City Fire Department). No evidence this member of the organization has permission of the organization itself to make a PD release. It's not solely uploader's "own work" as tagged, just his scanning of someone else's presumed-nonfree. DMacks (talk) 09:47, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:Billie Jean.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  19:12, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Billie Jean.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Street walker ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

This image is of UK edition. Now with the US image uploaded, the UK one should be deleted. George Ho (talk) 10:17, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:Michael Jackson - Beat it UK cover.jpg
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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  19:12, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Michael Jackson - Beat it UK cover.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Puertorico2 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

The U.S. image is uploaded. This UK cover becomes no longer necessary. George Ho (talk) 10:28, 13 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete per nominator. — I B  [ Poke  ] 10:49, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:Michael Jackson - Beat It cover.jpg
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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  19:12, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Michael Jackson - Beat It cover.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Pyrrhus16 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

The U.S. image is uploaded. This image is of the continental European edition and will no longer be necessary to identify the American song. George Ho (talk) 10:30, 13 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete per nominator. — I B  [ Poke  ] 10:49, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:Colombo Port City02.png
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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  20:12, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Colombo Port City02.png ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by CoolGin ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

This is one of two non-free images on Colombo Port City (the other being File:Colombo Port 2016.png). Therefore it fails criteria 3 under WP:NFCCP - minimal usage.  obi2canibe talk contr 11:03, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:One weird tip advert.jpg
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The result of the discussion was: delete Ricky81682 (talk) 06:15, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * File:One weird tip advert.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Philafrenzy ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

The use of four separate nonfree advertisements in the image fails WP:NFCC. My suggested outcome is to replace the file with the image of one advertisement (I have no preference, but discussion may result in consensus). RJaguar3 &#124; u &#124; t 11:26, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * It was four thumbnailed adverts deliberately because that makes it clear that we are not advertising or endorsing any particular version and it illustrates the variety of forms the advert takes as discussed in the article. Philafrenzy (talk) 11:41, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * We regularly include a single characteristic advertisement (not multiple ones) under WP:NFCC, even though there might be variations (Ransomware, Evony). The fact that there might be no canonical non-free illustration does not meet WP:NFCC and WP:NFCC.  Your argument might be more convincing if there were a reliable source discussing the variations, and if the variations were substantial (as it is, it can easily be summed up by "Some variations of the advertisements have different line drawings and word substitutions.").  RJaguar3 &#124; u &#124; t 19:41, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I assume you are aware that I didn't tile four adverts? The image exists in that form here where Slate chose to use four tiled examples precisely because there was no canonical version and the many variations and ubiquity of the adverts are one of the important things about it. I assume you accept that some form of fair use illustration is appropriate here. If not this tile, which image do you consider is the most appropriate? Philafrenzy (talk) 10:52, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The fact that advertisements may vary and that there could be several similarly-styled advertisements is easily explainable by text (I think the Evony example is the most similar). I understand that Slate created the composite image, not Wikipedians, but there shouldn't be a difference as to the WP:NFCC analysis turning on the fact that non-free images were compiled by a third party (to be distinguished from cases like a cast photo where the copyright holder or a licensee authorizes the compilation image).  As far as picking one image to include, in the absence of any preference, I think we should arbitrarily choose the top-left image.  RJaguar3 &#124; u &#124; t 14:44, 27 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete entirely A Wikipedian could create a similar free image to demonstrate this genre of advertisements. There is no need to use any copyrighted image. Calliopejen1 (talk) 18:15, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * This really isn't a sensible suggestion. A Wikipedian can't just create an image of an artistic work (even an advert) that is the subject of an article. Philafrenzy (talk) 18:31, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * This is a genre of advertisements (as the article notes), not one particular non-free advertisement. Calliopejen1 (talk) 19:12, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
 * It's not a genre, it's a group of advertisements by one company that was part of a scheme as the article says. The US government identified the promoters and prosecuted them. Even if it were a genre, some sort of fair use image would be required of a real advert that exemplified the genre and we would have to choose one from those currently running on the internet. Which do you propose we use if not the four currently in use? Philafrenzy (talk) 19:54, 25 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete. Fails WP:NFCC. Someone could create an free image that illustrates the same information in the image. Steel1943  (talk) 19:00, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The article is about this specific advert(s). The image can't be replaced by something we think up, even if it is similar. An analogy would be an article about a painting that is in copyright, we don't replace that with an imitation of the original for the same reason we can't replace these drawings with similar ones we create ourselves. We need to show the exact subject of the article. I note the original nomination was not for the complete deletion of the image. Philafrenzy (talk) 21:26, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
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File:Korn - Blind.ogg
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The result of the discussion was: Removal from Blind (Korn song) per WP:NFCC, no consensus on usage at Nu metal The uploader has had over two months of notification to add a fair-use rationale for Blind and has seemingly admitted their failure without any attempt to correct the problem. Normally, a file would be deleted within a week for its failure so this is more than sufficient to handle that. On the other hand, there is no consensus here about the usage at Nu metal and I suggest the parties consider a larger RFC on the topic of when or how music clip usage should be conducted at music genre articles. Ricky81682 (talk) 06:58, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Strike a portion of my close. I was reviewing the wrong song usage here at Nu metal here. Similar to the concerns I had with Choke below, removal at Nu metal is necessitated by policy. The only usage at Nu metal here is commentary that Korn's album was a nu metal album and unlike the discussion immediately below on the song "Headup", there is no mention that the song itself is an example of a nu metal song or that any portion of it contains nu metal elements. As such, there is no commentary about the song itself which would allow for NFCC#8 claim and thus the song is removed from both usages and deleted. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:07, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Korn - Blind.ogg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Statik N ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC in Nu metal and WP:NFCC in Blind (Korn song). Stefan2 (talk) 12:07, 13 March 2016 (UTC)


 * It definitely does not fail WP:NFCC. It says on WP:NFCC#8, "Contextual significance. Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding."
 * I uploaded this file onto the nu metal article to show a sample of the band Korn's early sound. Korn are considered the pioneers of the nu metal genre. I feel that if this file is removed from the nu metal article, then the removal would be detrimental to the nu metal article.
 * For WP:NFCC, it says, "The name of each article (a link to each article is also recommended) in which fair use is claimed for the item, and a separate, specific non-free use rationale for each use of the item, as explained at Non-free use rationale guideline. The rationale is presented in clear, plain language and is relevant to each use."


 * I believe that the file's media description page clearly contains that. I put the song in the Blind (Korn song) article to give Wikipedia readers a sample of Korn's song "Blind" and show them what "Blind" by Korn sounds like.


 * Maybe the file fails WP:NFCC (but I doubt that), but it definitely does not fail WP:NFCC because I uploaded the file onto the nu metal article to display a sample of Korn's early music style, Korn are considered the pioneers of nu metal, and I believe that if the file is removed from the nu metal article, then the removal would be harmful to the nu metal article. Statik N (talk) 23:03, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The article Nu metal is an article about a special kind of music. Such articles do not need any sound files. Instead, you are supposed to refer to articles about music which contain additional information (such as sound files). See WP:NFC §6. --Stefan2 (talk) 23:59, 13 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Nu metal is a form of alternative metal that combines metal with genres such as hip hop, funk, grunge and alternative rock. Many people will be confused on what nu metal would sound like if they don't hear sound samples of the genre. Also, there's all kinds of nu metal sounds; nu metal with mostly hip hop elements; nu metal with mostly metal elements; nu metal with mostly alternative rock/grunge elements; nu metal that doesn't have rapping/turntables but still has some hip hop elements; nu metal with elements of industrial metal. Many Wikipedia readers might think that all nu metal has rapping/turntables, so showing them sound samples of nu metal that doesn't have rapping/turntables is a good idea because it can make it easier for them to understand what nu metal is. It isn't easy to define nu metal with just text. Statik N (talk) 00:43, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, text alone does not usually do a good representation of what a music style is about, so I would say that "don't need" is improbable and that the second part of WP:NFCC would be met. However, we also need to consider WP:NFCC (can we create/obtain a freely licensed Nu Metal music clip?), WP:NFCC (do we need so many non-free sound files to illustrate the music style), first part of WP:NFCC (are the files as they are currently used improving the understanding of the article topic? As-is they need some context) and WP:NFCC (this all needs to be stated in the FUR). As is I don't think these files meet the standard, but their use can be improved.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:42, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The reason why I added a lot of sound files is because there's all kinds of nu metal. Many nu metal bands sound different from each other. If I only added a sound file of "Nookie" by Limp Bizkit, some people would think that all nu metal has more hip hop elements than metal elements and people would think that all nu metal has rapping. If I only added a sound file of "Choke" by Kittie, some people would think that all nu metal has more metal elements than hip hop elements. I want to show samples of all kinds of nu metal to make it easier for readers to understand what nu metal is and how to know if a song is nu metal or not. Statik N (talk) 23:53, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That's why we have wikilinks. Instead of including everything in an article, you link to other articles, such as articles about songs, which contain more detailed information. --Stefan2 (talk) 15:29, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That's like saying that no articles should include pictures/audios because they all can link to other articles that both would feature these pictures/audios and would give more information. Statik N (talk) 23:51, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Not true. WP:NFC §6 says that something may be acceptable in the main article on the subject but that other articles typically should link to the main article. --Stefan2 (talk) 16:37, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The articles emo, grunge and punk rock all use sound samples. This is a good thing because it helps readers understand what the genre sounds like. Some of these audio samples in the nu metal article were supposed to show how nu metal without rapping/turntables sounds like and how nu metal with rapping/turntables sounds like. Some people will think that all nu metal must have rapping/turntables. There is more than 1 style of nu metal: Nu metal with mostly metal elements (eg: Otep, Slipknot); nu metal with mostly hip-hop/rap rock elements (eg: Crazy Town, Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park); nu metal with industrial elements (eg: Static-X); nu metal with rapping/turntables (eg: Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park); nu metal without rapping/turntables (eg: Godsmack); etc. Saying that the nu metal article shouldn't have sound samples and instead should have links to Wikipedia nu metal band articles that have sound samples is pretty much like saying that we shouldn't include images in the nu metal article because instead, we can have links to nu metal band articles that have images. I feel that including sound samples is a good idea because it definitely helps readers hear what nu metal sounds like and understand what nu metal sounds like without needing to leave the nu metal article. If the nu metal article can't have sound samples then why are the grunge article, the emo article and the punk rock article all allowed to have sound samples? Also, it said typically should link to other articles. Typically=usually. Typically=/=always. The nu metal article is an exception. Statik N (talk) 01:23, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Anyone opposed to merging these file deletion discussions into a single one? We've been repeating our statements seven times for each discussion.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:48, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That sounds like a good idea. --Stefan2 (talk) 17:40, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:Korn - Falling Away from Me.ogg
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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Removal from Falling Away from Me per WP:NFCC, no consensus on usage at Nu metal Like above, the uploader has had over two months of notification to add a fair-use rationale for its usage at Falling Away and has seemingly admitted their failure without any attempt to correct the problem. Normally, a file would be deleted within a week for its failure so this is more than sufficient to handle that. On the other hand, there is no consensus here about the usage at Nu metal and I suggest the parties consider a larger RFC on the topic of when or how music clip usage should be conducted at music genre articles. Unlike hte others, the sources, while split, mention the song itself although and the citation calls it purely a "rock single" when removing the remainder. However, that's not clear enough for me to find a lack of commentary so there is no consensus which means that it can be immediately relisted without further discussion. Ricky81682 (talk) 07:16, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Korn - Falling Away from Me.ogg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Statik N ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC in Nu metal and WP:NFCC in Falling Away from Me. Stefan2 (talk) 12:08, 13 March 2016 (UTC)


 * It definitely does not fail WP:NFCC. It says on WP:NFCC#8, "Contextual significance. Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding."
 * I uploaded this file onto the nu metal article to show an example of what nu metal sounds like, especially the nu metal sound of the band Korn, who are considered the pioneers of nu metal. I feel that if this file is removed from the nu metal article, then the removal would be detrimental to the nu metal article.
 * For WP:NFCC, it says, "The name of each article (a link to each article is also recommended) in which fair use is claimed for the item, and a separate, specific non-free use rationale for each use of the item, as explained at Non-free use rationale guideline. The rationale is presented in clear, plain language and is relevant to each use."


 * I believe that the file's media description page clearly contains that. I put the song in the Falling Away from Me article to give Wikipedia readers a sample of Korn's song "Falling Away from Me" and show them what "Falling Away from Me" by Korn sounds like.


 * Maybe the file fails WP:NFCC (but I doubt that), but it definitely does not fail WP:NFCC because I uploaded the file onto the nu metal article to display an example of the nu metal sound, especially the nu metal sound of the band Korn, who are considered the pioneers of nu metal, and I believe that if the file is removed from the nu metal article, then the removal would be harmful to the nu metal article. Statik N (talk) 23:10, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The article Nu metal is an article about a special kind of music. Such articles do not need any sound files. Instead, you are supposed to refer to articles about music which contain additional information (such as sound files). See WP:NFC §6. --Stefan2 (talk) 23:59, 13 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Nu metal is a form of alternative metal that combines metal with genres such as hip hop, funk, grunge and alternative rock. Many people will be confused on what nu metal would sound like if they don't hear sound samples of the genre. Also, there's all kinds of nu metal sounds; nu metal with mostly hip hop elements; nu metal with mostly metal elements; nu metal with mostly alternative rock/grunge elements; nu metal that doesn't have rapping/turntables but still has some hip hop elements; nu metal with elements of industrial metal. Many Wikipedia readers might think that all nu metal has rapping/turntables, so showing them sound samples of nu metal that doesn't have rapping/turntables is a good idea because it can make it easier for them to understand what nu metal is. It isn't easy to define nu metal with just text. Statik N (talk) 00:43, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, text alone does not usually do a good representation of what a music style is about, so I would say that "don't need" is improbable and that the second part of WP:NFCC would be met. However, we also need to consider WP:NFCC (can we create/obtain a freely licensed Nu Metal music clip?), WP:NFCC (do we need so many non-free sound files to illustrate the music style), first part of WP:NFCC (are the files as they are currently used improving the understanding of the article topic? As-is they need some context) and WP:NFCC (this all needs to be stated in the FUR). As is I don't think these files meet the standard, but their use can be improved.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:42, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The reason why I added a lot of sound files is because there's all kinds of nu metal. Many nu metal bands sound different from each other. If I only added a sound file of "Nookie" by Limp Bizkit, some people would think that all nu metal has more hip hop elements than metal elements and people would think that all nu metal has rapping. If I only added a sound file of "Choke" by Kittie, some people would think that all nu metal has more metal elements than hip hop elements. I want to show samples of all kinds of nu metal to make it easier for readers to understand what nu metal is and how to know if a song is nu metal or not. Statik N (talk) 22:58, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That's why we have wikilinks. Instead of including everything in an article, you link to other articles, such as articles about songs, which contain more detailed information. --Stefan2 (talk) 15:29, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That's like saying that no articles should include pictures/audios because they all can link to other articles that both would feature these pictures/audios and would give more information. Statik N (talk) 23:52, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Not true. WP:NFC §6 says that something may be acceptable in the main article on the subject but that other articles typically should link to the main article. --Stefan2 (talk) 16:37, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The articles emo, grunge and punk rock all use sound samples. This is a good thing because it helps readers understand what the genre sounds like. Some of these audio samples in the nu metal article were supposed to show how nu metal without rapping/turntables sounds like and how nu metal with rapping/turntables sounds like. Some people will think that all nu metal must have rapping/turntables. There is more than 1 style of nu metal: Nu metal with mostly metal elements (eg: Otep, Slipknot); nu metal with mostly hip-hop/rap rock elements (eg: Crazy Town, Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park); nu metal with industrial elements (eg: Static-X); nu metal with rapping/turntables (eg: Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park); nu metal without rapping/turntables (eg: Godsmack); etc. Saying that the nu metal article shouldn't have sound samples and instead should have links to Wikipedia nu metal band articles that have sound samples is pretty much like saying that we shouldn't include images in the nu metal article because instead, we can have links to nu metal band articles that have images. I feel that including sound samples is a good idea because it definitely helps readers hear what nu metal sounds like and understand what nu metal sounds like without needing to leave the nu metal article. If the nu metal article can't have sound samples then why are the grunge article, the emo article and the punk rock article all allowed to have sound samples? Also, it said typically should link to other articles. Typically=usually. Typically=/=always. The nu metal article is an exception. Statik N (talk) 01:24, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Kittie - Choke.ogg
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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete While there is a disagreement about whether a music genre article generally can include musical clips, the key discussion is that there is no source that this song is an example of Nu metal for any such commentary here. As the editor notes, the album is considered an example of nu metal but as used, here, the album Spit is described a nu metal album that features elements of genres such as death metal, hip hop and alternative rock.. It not clear from that statement which song or what portion of which song from that album would be the nu metal portion. The source for this statement also is not the greatest reliable source but also only cites the song Brackish and not the song Choke. As such, in contrast to the other two ogg files in that section, there is no actual source that confirms that this song (and in particular, this portion of said song) has any of the elements of nu metal that would justify the usage of a non-free song here. To permit its usage based on that source about the album would essentially allow for the entire album to be posted which would obviously be an overreach in terms of non-free usage. The other two ogg files on that page both specifically refer to the songs in question and in particular refer to portions of those songs and while the parties can discuss their usage here, this one does not even fit the basic requirements of having critical commentary to justify its usage at all. Ricky81682 (talk) 06:48, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Kittie - Choke.ogg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Statik N ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC in Nu metal. Stefan2 (talk) 12:09, 13 March 2016 (UTC)


 * It definitely does not fail WP:NFCC. It says on WP:NFCC#8, "Contextual significance. Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding."
 * I uploaded this file onto the nu metal article to show an example of what nu metal sounds like, especially nu metal with mostly metal elements, which Kittie is known for playing on their album Spit. Some nu metal has way more metal elements than hip hop elements/funk elements/grunge elements/alternative rock elements and I feel that using this file on the nu metal article can help Wikipedia readers understand what nu metal with mostly metal elements sounds like, making it easier for them to understand what nu metal is and what nu metal sounds like. I feel that if this file is removed from the nu metal article, then the removal would be detrimental to the nu metal article.
 * This file definitely does not fail WP:NFCC because I uploaded the file onto the nu metal article to display an example of what nu metal sounds like, especially nu metal with primarily metal elements, which the band Kittie is known for playing on their album Spit, and to help Wikipedia readers understand what nu metal with primarily metal elements might sound like since some nu metal has way more metal elements than hip hop elements/funk elements/grunge elements/alternative rock elements, and because I believe that if the file is removed from the nu metal article, then the removal would be harmful to the nu metal article. Statik N (talk) 23:36, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The article Nu metal is an article about a special kind of music. Such articles do not need any sound files. Instead, you are supposed to refer to articles about music which contain additional information (such as sound files). See WP:NFC §6. --Stefan2 (talk) 00:00, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Nu metal is a form of alternative metal that combines metal with genres such as hip hop, funk, grunge and alternative rock. Many people will be confused on what nu metal would sound like if they don't hear sound samples of the genre. Also, there's all kinds of nu metal sounds; nu metal with mostly hip hop elements; nu metal with mostly metal elements; nu metal with mostly alternative rock/grunge elements; nu metal that doesn't have rapping/turntables but still has some hip hop elements; nu metal with elements of industrial metal. Many Wikipedia readers might think that all nu metal has rapping/turntables, so showing them sound samples of nu metal that doesn't have rapping/turntables is a good idea because it can make it easier for them to understand what nu metal is. It isn't easy to define nu metal with just text. Statik N (talk) 00:43, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, text alone does not usually do a good representation of what a music style is about, so I would say that "don't need" is improbable and that the second part of WP:NFCC would be met. However, we also need to consider WP:NFCC (can we create/obtain a freely licensed Nu Metal music clip?), WP:NFCC (do we need so many non-free sound files to illustrate the music style), first part of WP:NFCC (are the files as they are currently used improving the understanding of the article topic? As-is they need some context) and WP:NFCC (this all needs to be stated in the FUR). As is I don't think these files meet the standard, but their use can be improved.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:42, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The reason why I added a lot of sound files is because there's all kinds of nu metal. Many nu metal bands sound different from each other. If I only added a sound file of "Nookie" by Limp Bizkit, some people would think that all nu metal has more hip hop elements than metal elements and people would think that all nu metal has rapping. If I only added a sound file of "Choke" by Kittie, some people would think that all nu metal has more metal elements than hip hop elements. I want to show samples of all kinds of nu metal to make it easier for readers to understand what nu metal is and how to know if a song is nu metal or not. Statik N (talk) 22:58, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That's why we have wikilinks. Instead of including everything in an article, you link to other articles, such as articles about songs, which contain more detailed information. --Stefan2 (talk) 15:29, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That's like saying that no articles should include pictures/audios because they all can link to other articles that both would feature these pictures/audios and would give more information. Statik N (talk) 23:52, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Not true. WP:NFC §6 says that something may be acceptable in the main article on the subject but that other articles typically should link to the main article. --Stefan2 (talk) 16:37, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The articles emo, grunge and punk rock all use sound samples. This is a good thing because it helps readers understand what the genre sounds like. Some of these audio samples in the nu metal article were supposed to show how nu metal without rapping/turntables sounds like and how nu metal with rapping/turntables sounds like. Some people will think that all nu metal must have rapping/turntables. There is more than 1 style of nu metal: Nu metal with mostly metal elements (eg: Otep, Slipknot); nu metal with mostly hip-hop/rap rock elements (eg: Crazy Town, Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park); nu metal with industrial elements (eg: Static-X); nu metal with rapping/turntables (eg: Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park); nu metal without rapping/turntables (eg: Godsmack); etc. Saying that the nu metal article shouldn't have sound samples and instead should have links to Wikipedia nu metal band articles that have sound samples is pretty much like saying that we shouldn't include images in the nu metal article because instead, we can have links to nu metal band articles that have images. I feel that including sound samples is a good idea because it definitely helps readers hear what nu metal sounds like and understand what nu metal sounds like without needing to leave the nu metal article. If the nu metal article can't have sound samples then why are the grunge article, the emo article and the punk rock article all allowed to have sound samples? Also, it said typically should link to other articles. Typically=usually. Typically=/=always. The nu metal article is an exception. Statik N (talk) 01:25, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Slipknot - Surfacing.ogg
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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: No consensus The usage at Nu metal specifically cites this song but there's no consensus here on whether or not as a general matter should song clips be used at genre articles. Ricky81682 (talk) 07:29, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Slipknot - Surfacing.ogg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Statik N ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC in Nu metal. Stefan2 (talk) 12:09, 13 March 2016 (UTC)


 * It definitely does not fail WP:NFCC. It says on WP:NFCC#8, "Contextual significance. Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding."
 * I uploaded this file onto the nu metal article to show an example of what nu metal sounds like, especially nu metal that has mostly metal elements and is extremely aggressive, which Slipknot is known for playing. Some nu metal has way more metal elements than hip hop elements/funk elements/grunge elements/alternative rock elements and is extremely aggressive and I feel that using this file on the nu metal article can help Wikipedia readers understand what extremely aggressive nu metal with mostly metal elements sounds like, making it easier for them to understand what nu metal is and what nu metal sounds like. I feel that if this file is removed from the nu metal article, then the removal would be detrimental to the nu metal article.
 * This file definitely does not fail WP:NFCC because I uploaded the file onto the nu metal article to display an example of what nu metal sounds like, especially extremely aggressive nu metal with primarily metal elements, which the band Slipknot is known for, and to help Wikipedia readers understand what extremely aggressive nu metal with primarily metal elements might sound like since some nu metal has way more metal elements than hip hop elements/funk elements/grunge elements/alternative rock elements and is extremely aggressive, and because I believe that if the file is removed from the nu metal article, then the removal would be harmful to the nu metal article. Also, Karan Pradhan of Firstpost, who cited the lyrics of Slipknot's song "Surfacing", called the song the "best encapsulation of the aggression, attitude, simplicity and indeed, the spirit of nü metal". Statik N (talk) 23:41, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The article Nu metal is an article about a special kind of music. Such articles do not need any sound files. Instead, you are supposed to refer to articles about music which contain additional information (such as sound files). See WP:NFC §6. --Stefan2 (talk) 00:00, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Nu metal is a form of alternative metal that combines metal with genres such as hip hop, funk, grunge and alternative rock. Many people will be confused on what nu metal would sound like if they don't hear sound samples of the genre. Also, there's all kinds of nu metal sounds; nu metal with mostly hip hop elements; nu metal with mostly metal elements; nu metal with mostly alternative rock/grunge elements; nu metal that doesn't have rapping/turntables but still has some hip hop elements; nu metal with elements of industrial metal. Many Wikipedia readers might think that all nu metal has rapping/turntables, so showing them sound samples of nu metal that doesn't have rapping/turntables is a good idea because it can make it easier for them to understand what nu metal is. It isn't easy to define nu metal with just text. Statik N (talk) 00:44, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, text alone does not usually do a good representation of what a music style is about, so I would say that "don't need" is improbable and that the second part of WP:NFCC would be met. However, we also need to consider WP:NFCC (can we create/obtain a freely licensed Nu Metal music clip?), WP:NFCC (do we need so many non-free sound files to illustrate the music style), first part of WP:NFCC (are the files as they are currently used improving the understanding of the article topic? As-is they need some context) and WP:NFCC (this all needs to be stated in the FUR). As is I don't think these files meet the standard, but their use can be improved.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:42, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The reason why I added a lot of sound files is because there's all kinds of nu metal. Many nu metal bands sound different from each other. If I only added a sound file of "Nookie" by Limp Bizkit, some people would think that all nu metal has more hip hop elements than metal elements and people would think that all nu metal has rapping. If I only added a sound file of "Choke" by Kittie, some people would think that all nu metal has more metal elements than hip hop elements. I want to show samples of all kinds of nu metal to make it easier for readers to understand what nu metal is and how to know if a song is nu metal or not. Statik N (talk) 22:58, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That's why we have wikilinks. Instead of including everything in an article, you link to other articles, such as articles about songs, which contain more detailed information. --Stefan2 (talk) 15:29, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That's like saying that no articles should include pictures/audios because they all can link to other articles that both would feature these pictures/audios and would give more information. Statik N (talk) 23:52, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Not true. WP:NFC §6 says that something may be acceptable in the main article on the subject but that other articles typically should link to the main article. --Stefan2 (talk) 16:37, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The articles emo, grunge and punk rock all use sound samples. This is a good thing because it helps readers understand what the genre sounds like. Some of these audio samples in the nu metal article were supposed to show how nu metal without rapping/turntables sounds like and how nu metal with rapping/turntables sounds like. Some people will think that all nu metal must have rapping/turntables. There is more than 1 style of nu metal: Nu metal with mostly metal elements (eg: Otep, Slipknot); nu metal with mostly hip-hop/rap rock elements (eg: Crazy Town, Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park); nu metal with industrial elements (eg: Static-X); nu metal with rapping/turntables (eg: Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park); nu metal without rapping/turntables (eg: Godsmack); etc. Saying that the nu metal article shouldn't have sound samples and instead should have links to Wikipedia nu metal band articles that have sound samples is pretty much like saying that we shouldn't include images in the nu metal article because instead, we can have links to nu metal band articles that have images. I feel that including sound samples is a good idea because it definitely helps readers hear what nu metal sounds like and understand what nu metal sounds like without needing to leave the nu metal article. If the nu metal article can't have sound samples then why are the grunge article, the emo article and the punk rock article all allowed to have sound samples? Also, it said typically should link to other articles. Typically=usually. Typically=/=always. The nu metal article is an exception. Statik N (talk) 01:26, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Headup - Deftones featuring Max Cavalera.ogg
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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: no consensus. The usage at Nu metal specifically cites this song but there's no consensus here on whether or not as a general matter should song clips be used at genre articles. Ricky81682 (talk) 07:33, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Headup - Deftones featuring Max Cavalera.ogg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Statik N ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC in Nu metal. Stefan2 (talk) 12:10, 13 March 2016 (UTC)


 * It definitely does not fail WP:NFCC. It says on WP:NFCC#8, "Contextual significance. Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding."
 * I uploaded this file onto the nu metal article to show an example of the band Deftones' nu metal sound, which is featured in the band's early albums. Deftones are one of the first nu metal bands. I feel that if this file is removed from the nu metal article, then the removal would be detrimental to the nu metal article.


 * This file definitely does not fail WP:NFCC because I uploaded the file onto the nu metal article to display an example of what nu metal sounds like, especially the Deftones' nu metal sound (Deftones are one of the first nu metal bands), and to help Wikipedia readers understand what the nu metal sound of one of the first nu metal bands, Deftones, sounds like, and because I believe that if the file is removed from the nu metal article, then the removal would be harmful to the nu metal article. Statik N (talk) 23:50, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The article Nu metal is an article about a special kind of music. Such articles do not need any sound files. Instead, you are supposed to refer to articles about music which contain additional information (such as sound files). See WP:NFC §6. --Stefan2 (talk) 00:00, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Nu metal is a form of alternative metal that combines metal with genres such as hip hop, funk, grunge and alternative rock. Many people will be confused on what nu metal would sound like if they don't hear sound samples of the genre. Also, there's all kinds of nu metal sounds; nu metal with mostly hip hop elements; nu metal with mostly metal elements; nu metal with mostly alternative rock/grunge elements; nu metal that doesn't have rapping/turntables but still has some hip hop elements; nu metal with elements of industrial metal. Many Wikipedia readers might think that all nu metal has rapping/turntables, so showing them sound samples of nu metal that doesn't have rapping/turntables is a good idea because it can make it easier for them to understand what nu metal is. It isn't easy to define nu metal with just text. Statik N (talk) 00:44, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, text alone does not usually do a good representation of what a music style is about, so I would say that "don't need" is improbable and that the second part of WP:NFCC would be met. However, we also need to consider WP:NFCC (can we create/obtain a freely licensed Nu Metal music clip?), WP:NFCC (do we need so many non-free sound files to illustrate the music style), first part of WP:NFCC (are the files as they are currently used improving the understanding of the article topic? As-is they need some context) and WP:NFCC (this all needs to be stated in the FUR). As is I don't think these files meet the standard, but their use can be improved.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:42, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The reason why I added a lot of sound files is because there's all kinds of nu metal. Many nu metal bands sound different from each other. If I only added a sound file of "Nookie" by Limp Bizkit, some people would think that all nu metal has more hip hop elements than metal elements and people would think that all nu metal has rapping. If I only added a sound file of "Choke" by Kittie, some people would think that all nu metal has more metal elements than hip hop elements. I want to show samples of all kinds of nu metal to make it easier for readers to understand what nu metal is and how to know if a song is nu metal or not. Statik N (talk) 22:59, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That's why we have wikilinks. Instead of including everything in an article, you link to other articles, such as articles about songs, which contain more detailed information. --Stefan2 (talk) 15:29, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That's like saying that no articles should include pictures/audios because they all can link to other articles that both would feature these pictures/audios and would give more information. Statik N (talk) 23:53, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Not true. WP:NFC §6 says that something may be acceptable in the main article on the subject but that other articles typically should link to the main article. --Stefan2 (talk) 16:36, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The articles emo, grunge and punk rock all use sound samples. This is a good thing because it helps readers understand what the genre sounds like. Some of these audio samples in the nu metal article were supposed to show how nu metal without rapping/turntables sounds like and how nu metal with rapping/turntables sounds like. Some people will think that all nu metal must have rapping/turntables. There is more than 1 style of nu metal: Nu metal with mostly metal elements (eg: Otep, Slipknot); nu metal with mostly hip-hop/rap rock elements (eg: Crazy Town, Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park); nu metal with industrial elements (eg: Static-X); nu metal with rapping/turntables (eg: Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park); nu metal without rapping/turntables (eg: Godsmack); etc. Saying that the nu metal article shouldn't have sound samples and instead should have links to Wikipedia nu metal band articles that have sound samples is pretty much like saying that we shouldn't include images in the nu metal article because instead, we can have links to nu metal band articles that have images. I feel that including sound samples is a good idea because it definitely helps readers hear what nu metal sounds like and understand what nu metal sounds like without needing to leave the nu metal article. If the nu metal article can't have sound samples then why are the grunge article, the emo article and the punk rock article all allowed to have sound samples? Also, it said typically should link to other articles. Typically=usually. Typically=/=always. The nu metal article is an exception. Statik N (talk) 01:27, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Nookie - Limp Bizkit.ogg
<div class="boilerplate ffd vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color:#f3f9ff; margin:1em 0 0 0; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #aaa;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: removal from Nookie (song) per WP:NFCC#10c, no consensus on usage at Nu metal Like above, the uploader has had over two months of notification to add a fair-use rationale for its usage at Nookie and has seemingly admitted their failure without any attempt to correct the problem. Normally, a file would be deleted within a week for its failure so this is more than sufficient to handle that. On the other hand, there is no consensus here about the usage at Nu metal and this source indicates that the song itself constitute nu metal as a I understand it. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:39, 16 May 2016 (UTC)


 * File:Nookie - Limp Bizkit.ogg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Statik N ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC in Nu metal and WP:NFCC in Nookie (song). Stefan2 (talk) 12:11, 13 March 2016 (UTC)


 * It definitely does not fail WP:NFCC. It says on WP:NFCC#8, "Contextual significance. Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding."
 * I uploaded this file onto the nu metal article to show an example of what nu metal sounds like, especially nu metal that has mostly hip hop elements, which Limp Bizkit is known for playing. I feel that if this file is removed from the nu metal article, then the removal would be detrimental to the nu metal article.
 * For WP:NFCC, it says, "The name of each article (a link to each article is also recommended) in which fair use is claimed for the item, and a separate, specific non-free use rationale for each use of the item, as explained at Non-free use rationale guideline. The rationale is presented in clear, plain language and is relevant to each use."


 * I believe that the file's media description page clearly contains that. I put the song in the Nookie (song) article to give Wikipedia readers a sample of Limp Bizkit's song "Nookie" and show them what "Nookie" by Limp Bizkit sounds like.


 * Maybe the file fails WP:NFCC (but I doubt that), but it definitely does not fail WP:NFCC because I uploaded the file onto the nu metal article to display an example of what nu metal sounds like, especially nu metal with primarily elements of hip hop music, which the band Limp Bizkit is known for playing, and I believe that if the file is removed from the nu metal article, then the removal would be harmful to the nu metal article. Statik N (talk) 23:15, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The article Nu metal is an article about a special kind of music. Such articles do not need any sound files. Instead, you are supposed to refer to articles about music which contain additional information (such as sound files). See WP:NFC §6. --Stefan2 (talk) 00:00, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Nu metal is a form of alternative metal that combines metal with genres such as hip hop, funk, grunge and alternative rock. Many people will be confused on what nu metal would sound like if they don't hear sound samples of the genre. Also, there's all kinds of nu metal sounds; nu metal with mostly hip hop elements; nu metal with mostly metal elements; nu metal with mostly alternative rock/grunge elements; nu metal that doesn't have rapping/turntables but still has some hip hop elements; nu metal with elements of industrial metal. Many Wikipedia readers might think that all nu metal has rapping/turntables, so showing them sound samples of nu metal that doesn't have rapping/turntables is a good idea because it can make it easier for them to understand what nu metal is. It isn't easy to define nu metal with just text. Statik N (talk) 00:44, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, text alone does not usually do a good representation of what a music style is about, so I would say that "don't need" is improbable and that the second part of WP:NFCC would be met. However, we also need to consider WP:NFCC (can we create/obtain a freely licensed Nu Metal music clip?), WP:NFCC (do we need so many non-free sound files to illustrate the music style), first part of WP:NFCC (are the files as they are currently used improving the understanding of the article topic? As-is they need some context) and WP:NFCC (this all needs to be stated in the FUR). As is I don't think these files meet the standard, but their use can be improved.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:42, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The reason why I added a lot of sound files is because there's all kinds of nu metal. Many nu metal bands sound different from each other. If I only added a sound file of "Nookie" by Limp Bizkit, some people would think that all nu metal has more hip hop elements than metal elements and people would think that all nu metal has rapping. If I only added a sound file of "Choke" by Kittie, some people would think that all nu metal has more metal elements than hip hop elements. I want to show samples of all kinds of nu metal to make it easier for readers to understand what nu metal is and how to know if a song is nu metal or not. Statik N (talk) 22:59, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That's why we have wikilinks. Instead of including everything in an article, you link to other articles, such as articles about songs, which contain more detailed information. --Stefan2 (talk) 15:30, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That's like saying that no articles should include pictures/audios because they all can link to other articles that both would feature these pictures/audios and would give more information. Statik N (talk) 23:53, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Not true. WP:NFC §6 says that something may be acceptable in the main article on the subject but that other articles typically should link to the main article. --Stefan2 (talk) 16:36, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The articles emo, grunge and punk rock all use sound samples. This is a good thing because it helps readers understand what the genre sounds like. Some of these audio samples in the nu metal article were supposed to show how nu metal without rapping/turntables sounds like and how nu metal with rapping/turntables sounds like. Some people will think that all nu metal must have rapping/turntables. There is more than 1 style of nu metal: Nu metal with mostly metal elements (eg: Otep, Slipknot); nu metal with mostly hip-hop/rap rock elements (eg: Crazy Town, Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park); nu metal with industrial elements (eg: Static-X); nu metal with rapping/turntables (eg: Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park); nu metal without rapping/turntables (eg: Godsmack); etc. Saying that the nu metal article shouldn't have sound samples and instead should have links to Wikipedia nu metal band articles that have sound samples is pretty much like saying that we shouldn't include images in the nu metal article because instead, we can have links to nu metal band articles that have images. I feel that including sound samples is a good idea because it definitely helps readers hear what nu metal sounds like and understand what nu metal sounds like without needing to leave the nu metal article. If the nu metal article can't have sound samples then why are the grunge article, the emo article and the punk rock article all allowed to have sound samples? Also, it said typically should link to other articles. Typically=usually. Typically=/=always. The nu metal article is an exception. Statik N (talk) 01:27, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:Disturbed - Want.ogg
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The result of the discussion was: Ricky81682 (talk) 07:51, 16 May 2016 (UTC)


 * File:Disturbed - Want.ogg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Statik N ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Fails WP:NFCC in Nu metal. Stefan2 (talk) 12:12, 13 March 2016 (UTC)


 * It definitely does not fail WP:NFCC. It says on WP:NFCC#8, "Contextual significance. Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding."
 * I uploaded this file onto the nu metal article to show an example of what nu metal sounds like, especially nu metal that doesn't have rapping/turntables, which Disturbed is known for playing a lot on their album The Sickness. Not all nu metal has rapping/turntables and I feel that using this file on the nu metal article can help Wikipedia readers understand what nu metal without rapping/turntables sounds like, making it easier for them to understand what nu metal is and what nu metal sounds like. I feel that if this file is removed from the nu metal article, then the removal would be detrimental to the nu metal article.
 * This file definitely does not fail WP:NFCC because I uploaded the file onto the nu metal article to display an example of what nu metal sounds like, especially nu metal that doesn't have rapping/turntables, which the band Disturbed is known for playing, and to help Wikipedia readers understand what nu metal without rapping/turntables might sound like since not all nu metal has rapping/turntables, and because I believe that if the file is removed from the nu metal article, then the removal would be harmful to the nu metal article. Statik N (talk) 23:32, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The article Nu metal is an article about a special kind of music. Such articles do not need any sound files. Instead, you are supposed to refer to articles about music which contain additional information (such as sound files). See WP:NFC §6. --Stefan2 (talk) 00:00, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Nu metal is a form of alternative metal that combines metal with genres such as hip hop, funk, grunge and alternative rock. Many people will be confused on what nu metal would sound like if they don't hear sound samples of the genre. Also, there's all kinds of nu metal sounds; nu metal with mostly hip hop elements; nu metal with mostly metal elements; nu metal with mostly alternative rock/grunge elements; nu metal that doesn't have rapping/turntables but still has some hip hop elements; nu metal with elements of industrial metal. Many Wikipedia readers might think that all nu metal has rapping/turntables, so showing them sound samples of nu metal that doesn't have rapping/turntables is a good idea because it can make it easier for them to understand what nu metal is. It isn't easy to define nu metal with just text. Statik N (talk) 00:44, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, text alone does not usually do a good representation of what a music style is about, so I would say that "don't need" is improbable and that the second part of WP:NFCC would be met. However, we also need to consider WP:NFCC (can we create/obtain a freely licensed Nu Metal music clip?), WP:NFCC (do we need so many non-free sound files to illustrate the music style), first part of WP:NFCC (are the files as they are currently used improving the understanding of the article topic? As-is they need some context) and WP:NFCC (this all needs to be stated in the FUR). As is I don't think these files meet the standard, but their use can be improved.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:42, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The reason why I added a lot of sound files is because there's all kinds of nu metal. Many nu metal bands sound different from each other. If I only added a sound file of "Nookie" by Limp Bizkit, some people would think that all nu metal has more hip hop elements than metal elements and people would think that all nu metal has rapping. If I only added a sound file of "Choke" by Kittie, some people would think that all nu metal has more metal elements than hip hop elements. I want to show samples of all kinds of nu metal to make it easier for readers to understand what nu metal is and how to know if a song is nu metal or not. Statik N (talk) 22:59, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That's why we have wikilinks. Instead of including everything in an article, you link to other articles, such as articles about songs, which contain more detailed information. --Stefan2 (talk) 15:30, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That's like saying that no articles should include pictures/audios because they all can link to other articles that both would feature these pictures/audios and would give more information. Statik N (talk) 23:53, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Not true. WP:NFC §6 says that something may be acceptable in the main article on the subject but that other articles typically should link to the main article. --Stefan2 (talk) 16:36, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The articles emo, grunge and punk rock all use sound samples. This is a good thing because it helps readers understand what the genre sounds like. Some of these audio samples in the nu metal article were supposed to show how nu metal without rapping/turntables sounds like and how nu metal with rapping/turntables sounds like. Some people will think that all nu metal must have rapping/turntables. There is more than 1 style of nu metal: Nu metal with mostly metal elements (eg: Otep, Slipknot); nu metal with mostly hip-hop/rap rock elements (eg: Crazy Town, Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park); nu metal with industrial elements (eg: Static-X); nu metal with rapping/turntables (eg: Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park); nu metal without rapping/turntables (eg: Godsmack); etc. Saying that the nu metal article shouldn't have sound samples and instead should have links to Wikipedia nu metal band articles that have sound samples is pretty much like saying that we shouldn't include images in the nu metal article because instead, we can have links to nu metal band articles that have images. I feel that including sound samples is a good idea because it definitely helps readers hear what nu metal sounds like and understand what nu metal sounds like without needing to leave the nu metal article. If the nu metal article can't have sound samples then why are the grunge article, the emo article and the punk rock article all allowed to have sound samples? Also, it said typically should link to other articles. Typically=usually. Typically=/=always. The nu metal article is an exception. Statik N (talk) 01:30, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:Page1.JPG
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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  20:12, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Page1.JPG ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Quantumquark ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

This seems to be unencyclopædic. Stefan2 (talk) 13:34, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * This spent some time on Mundkur, given the vague filename it should probably be salted after deletion.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 14:10, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:KSP space station.png
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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  18:11, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
 * File:KSP space station.png ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Kcida10 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

This is a screenshot from a copyrighted space flight simulator program called Kerbal Space Program. -- Rrburke (talk) 16:46, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete Derivative of non-free content - F ASTILY 22:59, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. I tried searching for Kerbal Space Program and visiting the source, and I find nominator's statement plausible. At the very least, it is granted that the original uploader on Flickr didn't do a good job of attributing the origin of the screenshot. And the uploader to Wikipedia must have noticed it. Source a requirement in Wikipedia and its absence is a ground for speedy deletion. Moreover, the image is unused so the damage would be minimal. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 10:46, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:Marina 2.jpg
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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by A file with this name on Commons is now visible. AnomieBOT ⚡ 20:12, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Marina 2.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Wikiuser11malibu ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Unused, unidentified location, too low quality to be useful. Stefan2 (talk) 18:59, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. It is indeed unusable because its resolution is 129 × 97. Such a resolution is okay for an icon but not for a photo shoot. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 10:37, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:South Africa.jpg
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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by A file with this name on Commons is now visible. AnomieBOT ⚡ 20:12, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * File:South Africa.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Mowbray ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

This is a logo, but it is not used in an article about the entity it represents. As such, the logo fails WP:NFCC. Stefan2 (talk) 19:39, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Are you aware that images can be used on articles with different names to the file's name? This isn't a logo for "South Africa". It is already in use appropriately on the relevant article, has been for some years and has an appropriate FUR. What reason do you think there is to delete it? Andy Dingley (talk) 21:32, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Rugby league in South Africa is not an article about an organisation and doesn't need any organisation logo. --Stefan2 (talk) 21:40, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * This is the logo of the national rugby league team. Coverage of Rugby league in South Africa would be significantly incomplete without it. Your argument that it ought to be added to South Africa national rugby league team is no reason to remove it from another article, certainly not to delete it as an image. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:40, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Based on the team's website, The team described in the article South Africa national rugby league team appears to use a different logo, so this logo should probably not appear in the team article. We also do not illustrate articles such as Rugby league in South Africa with logos. Users who are interested in seeing organisation logos should instead check the articles about the organisations in question. --Stefan2 (talk) 22:58, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:Tourette references 80.jpg
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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  20:12, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Tourette references 80.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Mbeychok ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Unused, no foreseeable use. Stefan2 (talk) 19:43, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. This file looks like something that is totally okay for internal use; only I don't see an internal use. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 10:36, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:Route Map.jpg
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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  20:12, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Route Map.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Planenut321 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Overwritten file: two in one.
 * 1) File uploaded by : Unused, low quality, no foreseeable use. We have better maps.
 * 2) File uploaded by : Copyright violation from the website maps.google.com. Stefan2 (talk) 19:57, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. The nominator seems to be right. It is a JPEG image after all. I am also concern about the map used in Planenut321 version; is it really free? It is clearly a derivative work. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 10:35, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:Nokia9300i.jpg
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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by A file with this name on Commons is now visible. AnomieBOT ⚡ 18:11, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Nokia9300i.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by Tuntis ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Unused. Too blurry to be useful. Stefan2 (talk) 20:09, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete, the other image at Commons has a better quality. ©   Tb hotch ™ (en-2.5). 18:35, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. The nominator is correct. —Codename Lisa (talk) 10:21, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
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File:Top Billin&
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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by A file with this name on Commons is now visible. AnomieBOT ⚡ 06:04, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Top Billin& ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) – uploaded by George Ho ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

I uploaded a vinyl side label to Commons. Is it free to use there or still non-free? George Ho (talk) 21:53, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The copyright tag on Commons looks correct to me, unless there is a photo copyright due to the shadow on the white thing under the disc. --Stefan2 (talk) 00:02, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Let's ask Graeme then. George Ho (talk) 02:33, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I would say that the totality of text on that record exceeds PD-simple. There are more than two dozen words here. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 03:01, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That would be true, Graeme, if it were the UK work. As a US work, how is the label with a lot of words a "literary work", which is typically qualified for copyright? --George Ho (talk) 03:28, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:CSD. The image is free. The "lots of word" issue mentioned by is non-blocking because those words need to pass the threshold of originality. Consider this example: a packet trace log file is huge but is not copyright-protected because it chiefly consists of numeric and gibberish data. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 10:31, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
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