Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2022 September 22



Fred O'Donovan (actor) images

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Removed unnecessary FUR from File:Cartoon of Fred O'Donovan 1917.jpg, deleted rest as textbook violations of WP:NFCC. No prejudice to restoration if the article is significantly expanded to explicitly discuss any of these images in-depth. - F ASTILY   04:20, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * File:Cartoon of Fred O& ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) &#x20;– uploaded by Roryjohnston ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).


 * File:Fred O& ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) &#x20;– uploaded by Roryjohnston ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).


 * File:Alexandra Palace with TV tower.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) &#x20;– uploaded by Roryjohnston ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).


 * File:Workhouse Ward TV.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) &#x20;– uploaded by Roryjohnston ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).


 * File:Robert Adams in The Emperor Jones 1938.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) &#x20;– uploaded by Roryjohnston ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Five non-free files being used in various parts of Fred O'Donovan (actor) in a WP:DECORATIVE manner which fails WP:NFCC. Some of the files, however, might be within the public domain at least in the United States under US copyright law and thus could possibly be relicensed as PD-USonly for local use on English Wikipedia.File:Cartoon of Fred O'Donovan 1917.jpg is being used in Fred O'Donovan (actor). It's licensed as "PD-USonly" but it also has a non-free use rationale; this is creating a conflict since "PD-USonly" files are treated as PD for local use on English Wikipedia and thus not subject to WP:NFCC; in other words, they don't need to be provided with a non-free use rationale and instead should use template Information instead. If this file isn't non-free, then there's really no way to justify it's non-free use per WP:NFC and the file should be deleted. If it's PD, then the non-free use rationale should be replaced with template "Information".File:Fred O'Donovan in The House of the Spaniard 1936.jpg is a non-free screenshot being used in Fred O'Donovan (actor). The non-free use rationale for the file states The picture serves to illustrate his life, and specifically one of his careers. This is the only picture there is of the older Fred O'Donovan - we have one other picture of him younger. which is pretty much the very definition of decorative non-free use. Non-free screenshots can be used when the screenshot itself is the subject of sourced critical commentary or they illustrate some special film making technique that is the subject of sourced critical commentary, but their non-free use is almost never jusifiable when their purpose is to simply show how someone appeared at certain point in their career. There a a number of freely licensed images already being used to identify O'Donovan and a non-free image isn't needed to just show how he might've looked later in life. The film the screenshot comes from is The House of the Spaniard. O'Donovan doesn't appear to have been one of the stars for the film and he's only mentioned by name once if the article about the film; moreover, the film is only mentioned by name twice in the article about O'Donovan. So, there seems to be no justification for using a non-free screenshot per WP:FREER as well if the point is just to "illustrate" the point that O'Donovan appeared in the film.File:Alexandra Palace with TV tower.jpg is supposed to show the building where the first BBC TV shows were made. This might be fine as primary identification purposes in the main infobox or at the top of a stand-alone article about the building itself, but there's pretty much no justification for using it Fred O'Donovan (actor) per WP:NFC#CS or WP:FREER just because O'Donovan worked on some of television shows that were shot there during that time period.File:Workhouse Ward TV.jpg is another non-free screenshot and it comes from The Workhouse Ward, which was an earlier TV play that O'Donovan appeared in and is also being used in Fred O'Donovan (actor). The non-free use rationale states the image is needed to Illustrate pioneering television drama and there's some commentary provided about the play and the acting of O'Donovan, but I don't think that's enough to justify the non-free use of this screenshot.The last image is File:Robert Adams in The Emperor Jones 1938.jpg, which is a non-free screenshot from the film The Emperor Jones (1938 TV play) being used in Fred O'Donovan (actor). The non-free rationale states the image Illustrate production of a television show in the very early days of television. Pioneering appearance of a black actor on television. which is might make sense in an article about the actor Robert Adams (actor) or the film, but is not needed here just because Adams had starred in a completely different play directed by O'Donovan.I can't see how the non-free use of any of these files is justified suggest Delete for them all if there isn't a way to convert their licensing to PD-USonly or some other type of free license. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:21, 22 September 2022 (UTC)


 * File:Cartoon of Fred O'Donovan 1917.jpg
 * I am puzzled by the concern about this picture, the facts of which are identical with File:Cartoon of Fred O'Donovan by Grace Plunkett.jpg, about which there is no problem. The facts are: published before 1927, author still alive 70 years ago. Therefore, public domain in US, copyright in Ireland. I used exactly the same procedure for uploading the two. I followed the steps provided. I never used the tag . I did not provide a non-free use rationale - the software did, in its mysterious way. I note that Grace Plunkett has the same wording and the same Licensing information. I have never come across the template.
 * File:Workhouse Ward TV.jpg
 * File:Fred O'Donovan in The House of the Spaniard 1936.jpg
 * I am at a loss on how to respond to an assertion that photos of an actor acting do not contribute to an article about that actor. I wonder why people use pictures.
 * File:Alexandra Palace with TV tower.jpg
 * I think it is useful for the reader to get a feeling for the environment in which Fred O’Donovan and his colleagues were working, while they were inventing television at this exciting time. It was an old converted exhibition hall with a tower that could support the transmitter mast. But if somebody really wants to delete this I will not shed tears.
 * File:Robert Adams in The Emperor Jones 1938.jpg
 * This is the only picture available of the world’s first TV studio, where Fred O’Donovan did his pioneering work. It does not show one of his productions, but there is a connection - Robert Adams. It also brings home to the reader that Fred O’Donovan was a pioneer of non-traditional casting.Roryjohnston (talk) 19:36, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 * When you upload images like File:Cartoon of Fred O'Donovan by Grace Plunkett.jpg and File:Cartoon of Fred O'Donovan 1917.jpg under a non-free license using the Upload Wizard (which might be what you did for these files), apparently a non-free rationale is added by the UW based on how you answer the questions it asks during the upload process. There's nothing really mysterious about what the it's doing since a non-free file is required to have both a non-free license and a non-free use rationale per WP:NFC and the UW seems to have been set up to ensure both are provided. If you then subsequently go back and relicense the file as public domain for whatever reason without removing or replacing the non-free use rationale (particularly if a template is used for the rationale), an apparent conflict has been created since the rationale is stating the file is non-free but the license is stating it's not. The Information template is just a more general template for file descriptions that can be used for PD or otherwise freely licensed files uploaded locally to Wikipedia. You don't have to use it if you want, but you should try and provide similar information to show that the file is PD per WP:IUP. PD-USonly is a general type of PD license that is sometimes used in cases like this. The PD-US-expired-abroad is a little more specific and seems fine. All that needs to be done for these to files is to replace the non-free use rationale on the files' pages. You can do that using the "Information" template if you want.The comments about the other files don't really help (at least not in my opinion) to further clarify how their respective uses satisfy WP:NFCC and are not WP:DECORATIVE. Try to explain why the reader needs to see these images and how not seeing them would be detrimental to their underatanding of the corresponding text in the article. How does, for example, the picture of Robert Adams bring home to the reader that Fred O’Donovan was a pioneer of non-traditional casting in a manner that not seeing that image would otherwise make it hard for the reader to understand such a thing? Is there sourced critical commentary particluar to that image which clearly states that it shows O'Donovan was such a pioneer or are you interpreting the image as such? Does the reader need to see the image to understand that Adams was Britain's first black TV actor? Does the reader need to see the image to understand that Adams subsequently appeared in a play O'Donovan directed a few years later? If you can clarify each file's non-free use in such terms and support your claims with sourced critical commentary about each image, then perhaps a consensus can be established in favor of their non-free use. Simply wanting the reader to see them is typically not considered a strong enough justification for non-free use. -- Marchjuly (talk) 03:16, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Plane taking off.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  13:09, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
 * File:Plane taking off.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) &#x20;– uploaded by Indiandefender2 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Small, low quality, no obvious use. Unidentified aircraft/operator/airport, tons of alternatives available on commons. --Minorax &laquo;&brvbar;talk&brvbar;&raquo; 11:30, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
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File:Chalice live Kuurne.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  13:09, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
 * File:Chalice live Kuurne.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) &#x20;– uploaded by Bertbeton666 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Watermarked. Permission needed. --Minorax &laquo;&brvbar;talk&brvbar;&raquo; 11:36, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete, orphaned with questionable licensing. Salavat (talk) 06:51, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete unless the copyright holder's WP:CONSENT can be WP:VRT verified. -- Marchjuly (talk) 03:18, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

File:UnidentifiedBrownSpider.jpg

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The result of the discussion was: NC license on Flickr. Assuming Smably is indeed Sylvan Mably, then no prejudice to restoration if they update the license on Flickr - F ASTILY   01:28, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * File:UnidentifiedBrownSpider.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) &#x20;– uploaded by Smably ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Incompatible license at https://www.flickr.com/photos/quas/344243/ Adeletron 3030 (talk • edits) 17:56, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete, orphaned with incorrect licensing. Salavat (talk) 06:51, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The names of the Flickr user ("Sylvan Mably") and the uploader ("Smably") do suggest they are the same person. Ixfd64 (talk) 18:07, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
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File:WarioLandLogo 3.png
<div class="archived boilerplate ffd vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color:#f3f9ff; margin:1em 0 0 0; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #aaa;">
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The result of the discussion was: relisted on. ✗ plicit  05:12, 7 October 2022 (UTC)


 * File:WarioLandLogo 3.png ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs])
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File:VMMC PearlHarbor Mural.jpg
<div class="archived boilerplate ffd vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color:#f3f9ff; margin:1em 0 0 0; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #aaa;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by AnomieBOT ⚡  01:01, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * File:VMMC PearlHarbor Mural.jpg ([ delete] | talk | [ history] | links | [ logs]) &#x20;– uploaded by Jonesy101 ( [ notify] | contribs | uploads | upload log).

No freedom of panorama for 2D graphic works in the United States. As the museum was founded in 1989, the mural was created no earlier than that date and thus too recent to be in public domain. Image is not used anywhere. Ixfd64 (talk) 23:11, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete, orphaned with questionable licensing. Salavat (talk) 06:52, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.