Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Hulk (comics)/1

Hulk (comics)

 * • Watch article reassessment page
 * Result: No action: Article is already functionally delisted (not listed on WP:GA and talk page status is DGA) to no ill-effect. Although delisting appears to have been brought about by frayed nerves and/or misunderstandings, several comments have noted weaknesses.  As closer, I would add that several sections contain only a sentence or two (WP:SS and GA criterion 1), several sources are of questionable reliability (WP:V/WP:RS and GA criterion 2B) and several images either lack FUR or appear to fail WP:NFCC (GA criterion 6A).  Current status as DGA appears appropriate.  ЭLСОВВОLД  talk 15:51, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

This article has undergone some problems. It was listed, apparently wrongly, and the primary author delisted it. However, another editor disagreed that the article had been delisted, causing some problems. I nominate it now to get a clear consensus from other editors, thus avoiding any confusion/unnecessary revertion. Thanks, PeterSymonds | talk  20:55, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * No review is needed. An admin feels that the article was improperly passed and listed. As such, it has been delisted. This is an open and shut case. Do not waste reviewer time with this case.ThuranX (talk) 21:17, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Comment Primary author of this article, ThuranX, should refrain from listing/delisting this article due to WP:COI. OhanaUnitedTalk page 01:52, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Question and comment. Does anyone contest the de-listing? If so, please step forward and tell us why you think the article should still be listed as GA-class. Majoreditor (talk) 03:35, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment. I can't comment on whether or not the article actually qualifies as a GA-class article (whether it does now or ever did, I don't know), but I will say that the de-listing seems to have been done in bad faith because ThuranX is angry at an administrator, DavidFuchs, who does not believe it should be rated GA and has rewritten large sections of the article since the GA-class was awarded. All of this, plus recent chatter on the article's talk page, should be kept in mind. BOZ (talk) 04:03, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


 * It's gotten even uglier than before on Hulk's talk page, and the article has taken some interesting turns. Did someone explode a gamma bomb?
 * I'm going to let things calm down for a few days before re-examining the article. Majoreditor (talk) 03:55, 2 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Your involvement is unneeded, Majoreditor. There is no need for a reassessment, as I keep saying. You will all be wasting your time. The article is a pile of steaming dogshit, don't you understand? Only David Fuchs can fix it. He will fix it, and then will re-award it GA Status, and then FA Status. Do you really think he needs your consensus for this? He's David Fuchs! He can circumvent our core policies! He's David Fuchs! He doesn't have to follow rules! He's David Fuchs! The new messiah of Wikipedia, here to save us all from hard work and consensus based GA reviews that pass but never should have! ALL HAIL DAVID FUCHS! ThuranX (talk) 15:40, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * This is the 2nd time you call an editor interrupting or their involvement is not needed. We don't allow such type of comments on Wikipedia. OhanaUnitedTalk page 16:34, 2 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, Ohana, you silly person. That was the OLD Wikipedia, where rules existed. Now, David Fuchs can create new consensus simply by ignoring the old consensus and attacking others. Under his new consensus, the article never passed, it simply suffered a bureaucratic error. For more on this idea, please read Wikiality, an article about the style of non-reality based editing that David Fuchs prefers. And I reiiterate, this article doesn't need it. Further, David Fuchs has now stated that he's no longer interested int he article. I guess destroying it by demanding it be unlisted, then walking away, is how you get to arbcom these days. ThuranX (talk) 22:46, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I am not David Fuchs's biggest fan, but I find it hard to see how attacking him might help in this GAR, let's keep this civil folks! :)  &Lambda;ua&int;  Wi  se  (Operibus anteire) 16:20, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, but we don't need to use WP:CIVIL. That's the old Wikipedia. See, I tried CIVIL, I got incivility back, and I found that administrators supported the use of incivility. clearly, this indicates that CIVIL is an outdated policy. There was consensus taht this article was a Good Article, but he revoked that with unilateral editing against consensus, and persisted in acting as though he had instituted a new consensus. This too, was supported by other admins, because no one spoke out against it. Silence is acceptance. So although the article only grew in consensus based, improving ways, although David Fuchs never materialized a list of specific issues, beyond the attitude that he can save the article from the regular editors, and that the lead was weak. I offered consensus building discussion, and he opted for unilaterality.
 * The article has not changed significantly from the GA version which passed and then failed per unilateral Admin action. As such, I feel there's nothing wrong with pointing out his actions in the bluntest, most blatant methods available. If unilateralism works for him, it works for me. ThuranX (talk) 21:28, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

David Fuchs has failed to present any actual objectiosn to the article for a week. At this point, I ask for reinstatement of the consensus, which was that it met GA status. IT seems his desire to stand on dictatorial fiat has cooled, and without actual objections, and collaboration between other editors going on, the article should be restored, so it can pursue FA. ThuranX (talk) 00:36, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Putting the debate aside, I for one don't feel this article meets GA standards (I remember seeing it at GAC and thinking to myself, "That one's going to fail the nom"). Stubby sections, citation request tags present, few secondary sources, heavy on story minutae, and lots of bad prose. ThuranX is currently working to improve the article, but it's got a long way to go. WesleyDodds (talk) 05:19, 5 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment. The article has great potential and is approaching GA standards, thanks to the editors' hard work. However, there are some issues which currently keep it from achieving GA recognition. The most significant are the several citation request tags. Additionally, the prose need work; for example, the article overuses the passive voice. And perhaps the editors could combine the final three stubby sections to avoid MoS concerns. Cheers, Majoreditor (talk) 18:29, 5 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Can't say I'm happy with this. Busted my ass like mad the first time, got consensus and so on, had an admin delist this, now have to do it all again. Anyways, the biggest question so far is on whether or not to split the majority of the article into an in-universe plot summary and then a list of versions of the hulk, or to leave the unified version there. A split would be to go back ot the way the article was before my rewrite, which is what prompted the rewrite to begin with. If that's the goal, then I'd like to know now, so I can spend my time on other articles. it's under discussion at the talk page, but since the review here is what matters to GA, I want to get thoughts here as well. ThuranX (talk) 00:44, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I lean toward not splitting the article. Majoreditor (talk) 21:43, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * There's no need for a split. What needs to be done is to clean up the article. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:58, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I wasn't proposing an article split; I was saying that IF we go to the manner some are proposing, we seriously may as well restore my pre-revision version, which had a lot of what people are asking for to make it GA, but had about zero real world content. ThuranX (talk) 00:13, 8 March 2008 (UTC)