Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Idi Amin/2

Idi Amin

 * • [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Idi_Amin/2&action=watch Watch article reassessment page] • Most recent review
 * Result: Delist. Editors have identified some issues that need fixing before the article will meet the GA criteria. Please work on improving the article and bring it back to GAN! (t &#183; c)  buidhe  20:12, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Indy beetle wrote: '' I see many deficencies with this article compared to GA criteria, but I'm not experienced enough with the clerking required for a GAR, so I'd appreciate it if someone else could start one. Starts GA Reassessment; the review will follow the same sections of the Article. --Whiteguru (talk) 00:21, 5 April 2021 (UTC) 

Observations
In 1941 Amin joined Garaya Islamic school at Bombo, and again excelled in reciting the Koran under Mohammed Al Rajab from 1941 –1944.
 * Lede tells being appointed Commander of the Uganda Army in 1965. Other sources suggest his rank was Colonel, then he was made a general by Obote, then appointed Chief of Staff. Consider
 * a Pan-Africanist group --> Pan-African group. (Africanist is one who studies African culture.)
 * Links in the Lede go to archived versions. As this is such an old article, it is recommended that links that are not archived be resourced on Archive.org
 * referenece 9 is available here: https://web.archive.org/web/20210310080859/https://www.theguardian.com/news/2003/aug/18/guardianobituaries
 * reference 10 is available here: https://web.archive.org/web/20210309152213/http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3155925.stm
 * with regard to a traditional herbalist who treated members reference 14 (by Amin's son) confirms this.
 * reference 14 contains observations of the Amnesty International report of 1978
 * In Early life reference 12 indicates that Amin attended school in Bombo and won prizes for recital of the Koran. There should be some reference to this in the article.

Amin and Abdul Kadir Aliga won honours in reciting the Koran in 1943. This is a reassessment in progress; it is not completed. --Whiteguru (talk) 03:45, 5 April 2021 (UTC) 


 * Guweddeko is somewhat discredited by other writers. Guweddeko's claim that Amin was made Deputy Army Commander in 1964 conflicts with the Lede, and other sources. His rank at that time was Major.
 * The British Council confirms with other sources that in 1966, his rank was that of Colonel.
 * Reference 39 is a dead link. Consider https://www.loc.gov/item/92000513/
 * Reference 40 requires subscription
 * Reference 52 requires subscription
 * Reference 48 page 288 gives a much lower number of Asians emigrating from Uganda, and indicates that around 4,000 remained in the country.
 * Reference 59 contains considerable evaluation of Amin's leadership and governance and the threats posed to many nations by his erratic policies. There is (objective) material here which would enhance the article by way of reception of GOU as led by Idi Amin.

his is a reassessment in progress; it is not completed. --Whiteguru (talk) 05:49, 6 April 2021 (UTC)  This is a reassessment in progress; it is not completed. --Whiteguru (talk) 11:11, 7 April 2021 (UTC) 
 * Reference 71 is a dead link. It is available on Archive.org = https://web.archive.org/web/20190901041056/https://www.thecitizen.co.tz/News/national/Why-Tanzania-defeated-Amin/1840392-2331220-olaa1lz/index.html
 * Reference 73 is a primary source and should be dropped. (He says in interview, "I am writing something, I can't tell you everything")
 * Reference 77 requires registration. Full version is available on Archive.org = https://web.archive.org/web/20200812140750/https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1985-08-12-mn-3930-story.html
 * Reference 79 requires registration and loops to 404. See https://web.archive.org/web/20100224212054/https://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/spiegelspecialgeschichte/d-51661384.html
 * Reference 84 (Fruitarians in Israel) requires subscription. Before the page was blocked, there was no reference to Idi Amin on the page. Consider relevance.
 * Reference 86 is an embarrassment to the United Kingdom; consideration should be given to the Foreign and Colonial Office and its support for Idi Amin as leader.
 * Reference 88 (BBC) reports varying attitudes to to the idea of the return of Amin to Uganda, in particular, The Monitor, which supported his return. This matter is raised due the number of references in this artice citing The Monitor.
 * Reference 95 is a dead link. Find it on Archive.org = https://web.archive.org/web/20181008151256/http://www.monitor.co.ug/Magazines/PeoplePower/Sarah-Amin-1954---2015/-/689844/2750450/-/13xv1j3z/-/index.html
 * Jesse Gitta; he vanished and it is not clear if he was beheaded, or detained after fleeing to Kenya - Reference 95 is unclear on this, and is reporting hearsay. Drop this statement.
 * See also and fruitarianism is a frivolous inclusion.

Evaluation is needed

 * There are significant challenges to an objective reception and evaluation of Idi Amin and his time as President. These challenges are somewhat exacerbated by the resumption of Obote as President and his bloody time as leader of this nation. There was no culture of peace in Uganda after Amin's exile to Saudi Arabia.
 * A Reception or Evaluation section is needed. Cartoons and reports of buffoonery are not an encyclopaedic evaluation of Amin nor his Presidency. It behooves editors to reconsider the section on Erratic behaviour, self-bestowed titles and media portrayal despite what other sources might have said at the time or during Amin's lifetime.
 * Another part of evaluation is Post Colonialism. As the British cut off all relations in 1977, post colonialism has to be part of any evaluation of Amin as President. Just as any any evaluation has to include subversive operations designed to destabilise (and prop up a corrupt regime) by several nations, including the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, Syria, Libya, Israel, East Germany.

This is a reassessment in progress; it is not completed. -- --Whiteguru (talk) 04:56, 7 April 2021 (UTC)



Commentary by Indy beetle
-Indy beetle (talk) 07:18, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Overall comments on the Presidency section:
 * Amin ruled through the army via a large patronage network, among other things. This is not mentioned. See Uganda Army (1971–1980).
 * Many sources talk about how professional administration, police, and courts collapsed under Amin's rule. This is not mentioned.
 * His actual day-today governance methods and relationship with his cabinet are not adequately discussed.
 * Some of his domestic initiatives like "Keep Uganda Clean" should probably be included. Right now most of the portion of the article about his presidency is how he marginalized certain groups.
 * The 1972 action by exiles to overthrow Amin was not a "coup attempt", but an invasion.
 * The International relations section seems to be missing some key material as well as missing citations or misrepresenting sources.
 * His relationship with Organisation of African Unity is absent, despite his hosting of the OAU conference in 1975 and his serving as chairman of the meeting (mentioned in the lede but not supported anywhere in the body of the text).
 * Also sorely missing is his relationship with Mobutu of neighboring Zaire, the PLO, and Arab states other than Libya (which is only barely mentioned).
 * Amin's relationship with Tanzania was also very sour long before the 1978/1979 war, but this is not discussed.
 * The citing of a telegram by the US Ambassador on his opinion of Amin seems to be an improper use of primary material.
 * The opening paragraph about his initial support from Western powers mentions both West Germany and the Soviet Union, despite the New African article cited to support that info not mentioning either of those countries. This also seems an inappropriate place to discuss what role if any the UK had in his 1971 coup (should go above).
 * Legacy section
 * A leader of Amin's stature and impact on his country requires such a section. I added it several months ago. It is far from "broad" enough per GA standards to be considered reasonably complete.
 * Other overall comments
 * The sources are a mess of formats and styles. Many documents and books are not cited with page numbers.
 * Some sources are of dubious reliability, such as biography.com (reference 94 for Kay Amin).

Responses to Commentary

 * Reference 55 has considerable information about various regimes and their support and manipulation of Idi Amin and the seizure of power in the Ugandan coup d'état.


 * There is insufficient information about the arms and ammunition supplied by the Soviet Union and the support of East Germany. --Whiteguru (talk) 05:49, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Amnesty International
Perhaps the definitive view is that of Amnesty International, as set out in a report in June 1978.

“Amnesty International’s main concerns are as follows:

1) the overthrow of the rule of law;

2) the extensive practice of murder by government security officers, which often reaches massacre proportions;

3) the institutionalised use of torture;

4) the denial of fundamental human rights guaranteed in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights;

5) the regime’s constant disregard for the extreme concern expressed by international opinion and international organisations such as the United Nations, which results in the impression that gross human rights violations may be committed with impunity.”

Final comments:
I'm done here.
 * It is reasonably well written.
 * no, it needs objectivity, as mentioned above


 * It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * no, there are many different estimates of mass killings, murders and how many Asians and Indians were exiled


 * It is broad in its coverage.
 * It needs significant updating with perspective, evaluation, inclusion of a new section on either Evaluatoin or Post Colonialism;


 * It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias: Yes


 * It is stable.
 * Artice has been vandalised repeatedly and should remain under semi-protection


 * It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * Yes


 * References:
 * This is an old page. Where possible, references should be from archive.org --Whiteguru (talk) 03:27, 9 April 2021 (UTC)