Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2006 November 19

= November 19 =

authorship and first publication of website
im doing an assingment on Charles Manson and the family and to do my bibliography i need to know who wrote that article entitled "Charles Manson" and also when was the wikipedia website first put on the web? thanx very much


 * You can click the "Cite this Page" link on the left navigation bar and it will automatically cite the page in various formats for you. You can find when the the article last changed and who wrote it by clicking the "history" tab (next to the edit button). I doubt you need the date the website went on the web, but you probably want the last edited date. Note that you should never use Wikipedia as a single source, you should always use others as well. Prodego  talk  00:42, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

vandalism on the Sperm whale family page
Someone has vandalised the "Sperm whale family" (reirected from Sperm whales). My browser isn't cooperating with me trying to revert the page - unfortunately someone else will have to fix this.
 * Done. Please check my edit. --Tkynerd 04:23, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Use of image uploaded by another user
Is it possible that I can use one of the images that is already displayed on one of the wiki pages (uploaded by another user ) in my article or page? If yes how do I do this.

thanks
 * If it is a copyrighted image uploaded under the Fair use criterion, then in all probability you cannot use it. If its a free image, you can. You will know from the tag on the image. -- Lost (talk) 04:15, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Well this is the image I want to display http://te.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B0%AC%E0%B1%8A%E0%B0%AE%E0%B1%8D%E0%B0%AE:Crreddy.jpg There is no tag for this exept it says Free GNU documentation.

Also do I have to upload this again to use it in my article?
 * If it is free, then you can use it. But you have to upload it again in order for the image to be accessible for the english Wikipedia. I'd reccomend uploading to commons though, so other languages also can use it without having to upload for each language. Bjelleklang -  talk 04:38, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * There is a specific procedure you should follow to move an image into the commons, where you can use it from any Wikimedia project (ie. any Wikipedia language). Read Moving_images_to_the_Commons and use the Commons Helper (step 10) to make sure you don't miss any copyright information when copying. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 04:47, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Is there a list of 'tags' that you can tag a page with?
For example, let's say I want to add a box at the top saying 'This article may be biased', but I don't know the code you type in to make that box appear (which would be {NPOV} or something). Or I find an article that is definately not written in the tone of an encyclopedia article, and want to tag it accordingly, but I don't know the code to make that box appear.

Is there a page somewhere on Wikipedia that lists all those boxes and tags and the code to make them appear? EvaXephon 05:11, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * What you are loooking for are Templates.—WAvegetarian&bull;(talk) 05:15, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot! EvaXephon 05:22, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Talk Page Blanking
There is a user who persistently blanks his own talk page. It includes fairly old warning messages. I have been told previously that blanking of one's own talk page is inappropriate and always inappropriate if it removes a warning message however old. Could someone please clarify a) whether it's acceptable to BLANK as opposed to archive a page, whether warning messages should always remain regardless of how old they are, and what steps to take if blanking is somehow a violation of policy. --Davril2020 05:28, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * What's the user's name or IP? –-  kungming·  2 | (Talk ·Contact) 05:32, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If it's an old message, and the user has truly reformed, it's pretty much considered OK. If it's been removed, and the user has not reformed, or even worse, it's been removed because the user is purely vandalizing, it's heavily frowned upon; policy is ambivalent for the last group; in practice, obvious vandals are often reverted for it. Patstuart(talk)(contribs) 05:36, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's probably not good to warn a user for any weird edits he/she may have made a long time ago. They have already done lots of good edits since then, and it's always good to encourage good edits! =) –-  kungming·  2 | (Talk ·Contact) 05:43, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's this guy. Here's the previous full version (| here). After rving the blank the person made an incomplete archive that left out the warning message. It's just a 3rr warning so I guess it's unlikely to be a big deal (one month old). --Davril2020 05:57, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I suppose since it's been quite a while, that it might not matter. So long as he learns from his mistakes, then everything's ok. Don't worry. –-  kungming·  2  | (Talk ·Contact) 06:09, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Apparently, he's got a problem with evolution. If you're a regular to that type of article, just keep an eye out and mention his actions if he's subject to a 3RR block again. - Mgm|(talk) 09:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC) I have a similar question. I like to blank my talk page after each message, even if it's something good. This is so I can keep it looking organized and so personal messages don't get shown to everyone. Is this OK? Is there any policy against this? Rhythmnation2004 13:35, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Although one's blanking his talk page upon his exhausting a given thread where such blanking does not serve to remove warnings or a history of problems about which the community might want readily to know is surely not proscribed, it is, it would be fair to say, disfavored by most in the community (toward which, see, e.g., Talk pages). Whilst some prefer simply to blank their talk pages when they become unwieldy or when they comprise moribdund discussions (often observing that, if one desires to review past discussions, he may surely use the history tab), archiving&mdash;whether of groups of messages at temporal or spatial intervals or simply of rolling messages&mdash;is generally preferred; How to archive a talk page sets forth fairly simply how one might archive his talk page.  It is probably best to refrain from undertaking on-Wiki conversations that you wish to remain private, but those conversations that are not immaterial to the project probably need not to be archived and may, I think, be permitted to drift away in the edit history (others may find such selective archiving to be improper, but where one takes care not to archive tendentiously, there should be no problem).  If you're disinclined to take time to archive messages but nevertheless want an archive, User:Werdnabot/Archiver/Howto might be of some use... :)  Joe 03:20, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

As an extra issue the person in question has now rved warning comments about WP:CIVIL though not actual template messages. Does WP:3RR apply to one's own talk page? --Davril2020 19:38, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It can't because it doesn't apply to vandalism. Cbrown1023 03:23, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I've known some users who just deleted all the messages from their talk page and then post a link to the version that they deleted because it is preserved in the history. This user was a well-known admin, so it seems okay. Cbrown1023 03:25, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Dmurawski also appears to be deleting warnings on his talk page for things like making persoal attacks and removing afd notices from articles. 172.159.205.207 17:36, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

About the Law semister applications
I am a student who studying in the region of andhra university I am requesting you how can download the applications for the 5th semister of 5 years law course —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.2.221.164 (talk • contribs)
 * Wikipedia is not a form depository. --Wo o ty Woot? contribs 05:43, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Try the reference desk, though they might not be able to help you either. Like Wooty said, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a directory. Patstuart(talk)(contribs) 05:47, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you would like to Google andhra university? Wikipedia does not store forms and other data such as college applications. We're an encyclopedia, after all. –-  kungming·  2 | (Talk ·Contact) 06:10, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Plagiarism of Wikipedia
I saw some text on some kind of database website that was lifted in toto from a Wikipedia article I was working on at the time (Primal Therapy). This would have been at least a month back. I was busy and the piece was no longer in the article and I didn't know what, if anything, could be done about it anyway.

What should I do if I see something like that in future?-GrahameKing 06:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Was it a mirror, operating with full GFDL compliance? There are a number of those. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 06:40, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No, this was a case of a just a few sentences lifted out and used as a definition on a website that provided a kind of dictionary of alternative therapies. There was no citation of the source.  I wish I had kept track now. I just stumbled on it and don't think I could find it again.-GrahameKing 00:20, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Adding To Discussion Pages
I have tried to insert a comment on a discussion page but I can't determine the method or make my way to a useful page.

I wanted to insert the following on the Discussion Page about Carbon Footprint (sic):

Carbon footprints are, presumeably, produced by people who have walked through powdered carbon? Carbon dioxide doesn't produce footprints! Why are so many people so ignorant as to equate 'carbon' with 'carbon dioxide'? By the way, what word do people use to stand for carbon monoxide, carbon disulphide, carbon tetrachloride, etc - 'carbon'? Viclud —Preceding unsigned comment added by Viclud (talk • contribs)
 * You're doing alright for now. Firstly, to add a discussion to the end of a page, there will be a + button next to the "edit this page" button at the top. Click that, and it will automatically help you start a new topic. Second, if you type ~ after your comments, then it will automatically sign and date each comment you make. The rest you should be able to pick up, I think; I've added a welcome template to your talk page just in case. Happy editing. -Patstuart(talk)(contribs) 10:20, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Relist on AFDs?
Is possible to relist an AFD from one day on another day? Example: if I have AFD from yesterday or day before and it has no consensus or needs more consensus can it be relisted today? Khorshid 10:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think so, I see it happen often. --WikiSlasher 10:47, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Relisting it again only a few days later is considered bad form. An admin will usually let an issue go until it's clear there's a clear consensus, or it's clear there will be none. If you're referring to the Turkish template, I would highly advise not resubmitting it at least for a few months if there's no consensus. Try to get your point stated on the page as it is. -Patstuart(talk)(contribs) 11:51, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * When the discussion period is complete, if the admin would like further discussion to generate consensus, he/she will relist it on the current day. This ususally happens if there is no consensius to reflect an opinion of no consensus - ususally when there are too few opinions, or ongoing discussion. M a rtinp23 11:54, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Deleting User Page
Hello,

I was just playing around on here and don't want to be on this website. I like viewing it, but I somehow created a user page that is showing up in google searches. How do I delete this?

Thank You.


 * Put db-author on them, and they'll be deleted when an admin sees them. M a rtinp23 12:06, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Moving charts
On the Raven-Symoné page, there is a chart that should be in the "Television" subheading. When you look at the edit page, the code is there for the chart, but on the actual page, it shows up at the bottom of the page under "External Links". How can I move that chart back?

Rhythmnation2004 13:32, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The table was not terminated (with "|}"). I've fixed it for you.  -- Rick Block (talk) 18:05, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

copyright / free licensing
I had originaly, wrongly posted this in the reference desk - I've been referred to here.

I attempted to upload a picture which was taken by my boss, who co-owns a company (of two tea houses) called Tchai Ovna Ltd (I'm currently trying to work on the Wiki for the place) - my boss has given permissions for the image to be used explicity but he hasn't licesnsed it in any way; the photograph is of the exterior & entrance to the shop.

I'm not sure how I would go about licensing / fair use tagging it. I previously uploaded it as available to use on wikipedia as he said that would be fine, but that wasn't alright so I tried to edit the licensing to GFDL but I believe this is wrong also.

Basically, I'm wondering what I would list the image as; it's just a picture taken on a digital camera as far as I'm aware that holds no copyright other than intellectual. I don't have much of a clue about any of this. I'd also like to point out that if I have uploaded it under false copyright that it was not done intentionally or maliciously.

Thanks in advance to anyone who helps resolve this :)

-dannerz 14:28, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The taker of the picture (your boss in this case) must agree for it to either be released into the public domain or put under a free license (see Image_copyright_tags for different ways of doing this). It is not enough for him to say that it can be used only on Wikipedia, it must be free to use anywhere. If he agrees, then you can upload the image with one of the tags listed on that page and a brief explanation of the details. Trebor 17:06, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you misunderstand copyright. First, all copyright is intellectual, it's called intellectual property. Second, every photo taken gets copyright automatically, whether it's taken by a professional or is a snapshot; something posed for hours, or a picture of a house. The procedures need to be the same each time. Hope this helps. Notinasnaid 17:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you both very much for your help, I always thoguht copyright existed from the moment something is cereated it's just the names of licensing were confusing me and making me think you had to license something for it to have a copyright - but I've worked it out now :) -dannerz 17:48, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

from javier thank you
I know Wikipedia can be confusing for new editors, so you are welcome to ask for help at the help desk or on my talk page. --Slowking Man 14:46, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

yes sorry, im new and i made a mistake, by the way, i also uploaded an image that now i want to delete and i dont know how :) and where can i see the messages i have received? thanks so much all best Javier
 * If you get messages in reply to questions on your help desk, they will be there. If you get messages on your talk page, just click "my talk" (top of page) to see them. Notinasnaid 17:27, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I edited an article, but when I viewed the article an hour later, my edits were gone
I edited an article, "Potash", but when I viewed the page later, my edits were gone. It appears in the history, but does not appear in the deleted log or in a search using my username. it was my first time editing, and I am unsure as to whether I may have made a mistake, although i believe I followed the instructions carefully. Please contact me with information as to why this may have happened. Thank you. Terribenn 18:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I see the edits you made. The fact that you made the edits is only shown in the history, not on the page itself. Cbrown1023 18:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Do you mean you can't see the text you added? If so, try clearing your cache.--Werdan7T @ 18:51, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Where to start
Hi, I'm new here, and I was wondering where to start?--Anal Rapist 18:55, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Start by getting a name change. Cbrown1023 19:36, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Please see here for the kinds of usernames that would be best not to use. –-  kungming·  2 | (Talk ·Contact) 19:40, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Although to be fair its probably a play on Tobias Funke's profession of being the world's first doubly-qualified analyst-therapist. Perhaps you could start by rewriting that article to present a more out-of-universe perspective?  Zun aid  © Please rate me at Editor Review!  15:01, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

mailing lists for topics or featured articles
Sorry if this is answered or handled somewhere (i've tried to search around for it), but is it possible to setup wikipedia mailing lists for certain topics? In particular I think a weekly/daily mailing list of the featured articles would be very interesting (and a good way to spread wikipedia to others). Reesd27 19:02, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * WP:MAIL has all the mailing lists. The Signpost has updates each week including featured and defeatured articles. Trebor 21:38, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Please Block This User
Please block 24.171.145.185 for making garbage edits (using the page as a sandbox) to the article, "United States Electoral College" --74.96.102.152 19:33, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I've checked his edit - though it is disruptive, he hasn't vandalized any other articles yet, and it may be a good-faith testing of Wikipedia's editing tools.–-  kungming·  2 | (Talk ·Contact) 19:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I warned him with test. Cbrown1023 19:41, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Categories (restoring question accidently overwritten )
Is there an easy way to count the number of articles in all subcategories of a given category? A big category like Category:Science for example would have hundreds or thousands of subcats, and counting all of these would take too long. La  ï  ka 19:31, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Is the content of external links automatically saved with the article?
I'm a brand new editor and even though I have been all over help topics and FAQ's, etc, I haven't seen any discussion as to whether the content of an external link (to a current newspaper article for example) is saved in Wikipedia when the footnote is cited. Maybe this is so obvious that no explanation is deemed necessary?

It's come up for me in relation to an article in which the English translation of a Spanish language letter is in dispute. The original letter (and an English translation),appeared in a local newspaper and are cited in the article. Will both still be available in six months or two years for instance, even if the newspaper purges its old stories online?

R Duggan 20:42, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If you use the template for citing web sources, there is a parameter called accessdate. This means the citation will show when the page was last confirmed to have the correct information, and allows you to look up the page on the Internet Archive. Trebor 21:44, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It might be worth mentionning why this is the best we can do:
 * On the technical side, storing a copy of every web-page mentionned in an article would potentially require a huge amount of disk-space, and there would still need to be some way of telling when the copy was taken, of manually updating the copy if the resource changed "for the better", of letting the user choose the real thing or the local copy, etc.
 * Secondly, there would be potential for abuse - just by linking to a page, you would force Wikipedia's servers to take a copy of it, and become party to distributing it, opening up potential legal and moral quagmires if the content were illegal or highly objectionable.
 * Perhaps most importantly, though, there are extremely complex issues of copyright involved in taking verbatim copies of someone else's website - even sites like Google and the Internet Archive have to be very careful how they deal with this, and some services request that their content not be stored in this way.
 * Essentially, the concept is no different to a reference in any old-fashioned publication - you might reference "The Times, 2nd Nov 2006", but you wouldn't normally include a copy of that paper, or even the article in question; instead, you'd rely on the user seeking it out, and if it became unavailable, nobody would blame you. - IMSoP 22:11, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your thoughtful and helpful answer! In most cases this seems like a satisfactory solution, and as you said, it's no different than in the print media. I'd like to discuss this further though in connection with a particular article;Tan Nguyen . I followed your link to Internet Archive and learned that not in every case are pages archived. In the case of the Nguyen article, the heart of the story is a letter that was sent to 16,000 voters-some of whom found it intimidating. A criminal investigation is pending as to who sent the letter and there are those who think that Nguyen had something to do with it.


 * Regardless of how the investigation comes out; if Nguyen runs for some other political position some time in the future (Or is selected as Ambassador to Mexico in the closing hours of the Bush administration :)) it seems important to have an original copy of the letter somewhere in the story or on the talk page because there are at least two very much conflicting English translations of the letter which appeared in the days before the Nov 7 election. (Did I say the original letter was in Spanish?)


 * While I can understand that an English translation of the letter might have copyright problems, would the same be true of the original Spanish letter that was sent to 16,000 members of the public?


 * I'm aware that there is an additional problem beyond that of the copyright in that that it's in Spanish and this is an English wiki. Soooooo, have you any additional suggestions as to how I might edit that particular article so that it will remain useful in the future? Thanks


 * --R Duggan 04:01, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

English Silversmith Charles Woodward
Dear Wikipedia:

Do you have any biographical information about Charles Woodward. an English silversmithof the 18th century?

Thank you!

Vern Hansen
 * I don't think so (at least we don't have a page mentioning him). If he is notable and you know anything about him, why not create a page. Trebor 21:40, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Fair use images in portals
Are fair use images allowed in portals yet? Fair use/Amendment/Fair use images in portals hasn't been updated for almost two weeks, but it says that voting will end on the fifth of November (although it's far past that now). &mdash;The Gr e at Llama talk 21:55, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * They can't be used on the Main Page and there's strict rules restricting their use on articles. I see no way they could be allowed in portals regardless of a vote. - Mgm|(talk) 22:22, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Um, Fair use images are allowed on the Main Page (with restrictions, of course). Tito xd (?!?) 02:33, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Just remember that whether they are allowed in a given context by any particular policy doesn't mean that they can be used without a correct fair use rationale. This excludes any use for decoration, pretty much, but if the portal includes significant discussion of the image it may sometimes work. Notinasnaid 09:27, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Apparently votes don't count and consensus does... so it's still open. D  dc  c  20:36, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Hello
Hello I am new and need help --Rapier of Women 22:02, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You can post helpme on the discussion page (click the link) associated with your userpage or ask your question here. Have you done the Tutorial yet to get down the basics? - Mgm|(talk) 22:24, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Bibliography style?
Is there a bibliography guideline around? The list at Islam is very long and I don't know if there is a limit it should be at. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 23:18, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * WP:CITE has some information on styling citations...the manual of style might also have something, but I'm not sure. — K e  akealani  23:24, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I've checked but I don't need information on citations. There a long list of books on Islam and I'm not not sure whether there should be and if there should, what are the conventions surrounding it. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 23:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * If it's long, it probably contains a lot that can be deleted (especially titles that were put in for advertising). You should probably discuss on the article's talk page.- Mgm|(talk) 05:50, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

editing the metawords in wikipedia, for example, the tabs at the top of each page
How can I edit the content of say the tabs on each page, or the popups in the editor?

Not that I want to change the English wikipedia, but in some foriegn edityons the words are misspelt, or plain wrong.

Redaktor 23:24, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You have to be an administrator of the given wiki to edit the MediaWiki namespace. Tito xd (?!?) 01:58, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If there are misspellings, that's a valid reason for concern. Perhaps someone at WP:VPT would know who to contact to fix it - almost certainly someone at [meta]. Patstuart(talk)(contribs) 02:25, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You can also try filing a bug report at BugZilla. Tito xd (?!?) 02:32, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Foreign language Wikipedias are not editions in the sense they're translations from the English one. They are entirely independant projects. - Mgm|(talk) 05:52, 20 November 2006 (UTC)