Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2007 December 21

= December 21 =

help...
Hi

I am looking to write an article about an artist that has minimal exposure, (one article written about them). The name is already in the Wikipedia database, but none of the titles that come up are for this particular person, how do i make a new article for a title that is already on wikipedia?

What part of the requests page should I go to make a suggestion for a feature on wikipedia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lollipop-3 (talk • contribs) 01:49, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * What kind of feature?  W ODU P  01:55, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "feature" but the proposals section of the village pump might be what you are looking for.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 01:57, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * "Feature" has several meanings on Wikipedia. One meaning that gets a lot of exposure would be the featured article that appears each day on the Main Page. If you mean you want to suggest an article to be featured on the Main Page, I don't know if that is possible. According to Today's featured article, User:Raul654 decides what articles to feature on the Main Page. If you mean something else by "feature," such as for example a search command that works as well as Google Search, how you might go about suggesting it would depend on the type of feature it is. Wikipedia has a lot of customizability (in the form of templates and so on) that ordinary users can work with. However, on Wikipedia adding new features is not just a technical problem, but also a political problem, as users must reach consensus, or at least the subset of users who decide things must agree. --Teratornis (talk) 05:44, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Gone missing: Did I Accidentally Delete The Notable People
I think that I may have inadvertently erased the section of "Notable People" from the "Staten Island" page. I have been re-hauling the page and adding photographs as it was a real mess, however this section is now missing and I don't know where to find it. Could someone retrieve this section from the history and put it back in? It was a rather long list of names of famous people form Staten Island. Thank you and I'm sorry. I'll try to be more careful. (Unless someone else deleted it?)Hannahgoldstein (talk) 03:41, 21 December 2007 (UTC)Hannah Goldstein
 * Done. Dr.K. (talk) 03:53, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

New Thoughts Area
Let me begin by apoligizing if this is the wrong place to put this, I looked for an overall Wikimedia help desk and did not find one.

I recently had the idea of a Wiki Social Contract - more or less a constitution with possibly thousands of editors - in hopes of an ideal Social Contract. I first posted it on Wikipedia but it was immediately revoked, for the reason that it was an original work. I have no problem with this, as it is logical. I soon found that there are other Wiki sites under the umbrella Wikimedia; one of these being Wikisource. It seemed to me that the contract would fit there, though again, for the same reasons, it was deleted.

I am not at all bitter about these happenings, having now read more in depth the 'new page' requirements - and heck I learned about more Wiki sites that look pretty neat.

And now my question: Is there a Wikimedia site which exists for new thought and where my social contract idea would fit. Thank you, especially if this is the wrong spot for this question about wrong locations ha) Que? (talk) 06:34, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It seems to me that what you want is an essay about Wikipedia. In that case, I'd create in as a sub-page in your userspace (eg. User:Que?/Social Contract) and tag it with.


 * On a side note, you can find out more about what to put on your user page here. Xiong Chiamiov   ::contact::  help! 09:19, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Common proposals about Wikimedia projects can be made at . See meta:Category:Proposals. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:49, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I cannot be sure what you mean by a "Wiki Social Contract." The phrase is ambiguous, because while Social contract has an agreed-upon meaning, the role of the modifier Wiki is unclear. You might mean either of these two quite different things, or you might mean something else altogether:
 * A Social contract (in the accepted sense of the term) which some people happen to write on a wiki.
 * A set of guiding principles by which people conduct themselves on a wiki, as opposed to conduct within society in the general sense.
 * Your self-reported difficulties at finding a suitable wiki for your original work would seem to work against the second possibility (because one would need to accumulate considerable experience on wikis before being able to tell other people how best to use them; if you had such experience, you would not be asking this question). So, then, we seem to be left with the former interpretation, in which case you seem to be looking for a wiki which specializes in philosophy and accepts original work (from what I have seen, the vast majority of wikis accept original work; Wikipedia appears to be an exception - and a most counterintuitive one at that - to the general rule of what wikis are about). The place to look for wikis is WikiIndex. See for example wikiindex:Category:Philosophy. If you cannot find a suitable wiki for what you have in mind, then you can start your own; see:
 * Wiki Science/How to start a wiki
 * If you decide to install your own wiki, be advised that you will need to be, or recruit, a system administrator. I.e., starting your own wiki, and attracting and retaining a vibrant user community, can be a daunting task. Also consider: there are lots more people who come up with all sorts of great ideas for what thousands of other people should do, than there are correspondingly thousands of other people looking to be told what they should do. Just because Jimbo Wales managed this trick doesn't mean everyone else who tries it can find the same success. Jimbo happened to be in the right place, at the right time, with the right people, the right tools, and the right ideas. But don't let that discourage you. I like the advice of some extreme sportsman whose name I cannot recall who said:
 * Never say something is impossible until you have tried it 700 times.
 * It sounds like you have 697 or so tries left. --Teratornis (talk) 15:14, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

how to know about india by this wikipedia
Bold text —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.197.115.80 (talk) 06:58, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * See India. The Evil Spartan (talk) 07:02, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of article on Janette Geri
Hello. My name is Phil Smith & recently while trying to update info about Janette Geri, my wife, I incurred a deletion dispute. Please know that it was totally my ignorance in using Wikipedia that allowed this to occur. I would like to ask how the page can be restored within the Wiki guidelines etc. and apologise for making a mess. Thankyou, Phil Smith. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Halftonerecords (talk • contribs) 07:13, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * At the moment, the article still exists; so there is no issue (the user was in error to revert when you contested the proposed deletion). If the user opens up a deletion discussion (see WP:AFD), then you will have a chance to state your case there. You might be interested in reading up on WP:BIO. The Evil Spartan (talk) 07:45, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Networking
What is Different beatween Hub & Switch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.19.26.131 (talk) 07:48, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you want the reference desk for that question. The Evil Spartan (talk) 07:52, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Hub -single collision domain Switch -multiple collision domain

Hub-basically a multi port repeater Switch -basically a multi port bridge

Hub-suppose I/P bandwidth is 100MHz and 10 devices are attached to it then O/P bandwidth is 10MHz each Switch-suppose I/P bandwidth is 100MHz and 10 devices are attached to it then O/P bandwidth is 100MHz and at a Time only one devices is connected through a virtual connection(a dedicated virtual connection.So a multi port bridge sort)

Hub-Not an intelligent device as it broadcasts the message to all devices attached Switch -Is an intelligent device as it stores tables and decides which device to connect to so not a broadcasting device

contact at:91-9999637772
 * Hub and switch both have many meanings, so we have disambiguation pages for them. If you cannot find enough information about the types of hubs and switches you have in mind, be sure to specify what types you have in mind when you ask for more information on the Reference desk. --Teratornis (talk) 15:20, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Who are the contriutors of articles in Wikipedia?
I am very impressed with knowledge of people who conribute to Wikipedia. - Do they ontribute to Wikipedia voluntarily? - How long each arile remain on the portal? - Do you site another article by differnt contributor on the same suject later? Thanking in advance for your response to this inquiry.

T. Shimada, Ph.D.  N F 24 ( happy holidays! ) 21:05, 21 December 2007 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.168.45.218 (talk) 12:10, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, people who contribute on wikipedia do so voluntarily. What is arile? Article? Article remains on wikipedia forever, unless it gets deleted. I believe we never cite another article in wikipedia. And that wikipedia guidelines do not permit us to cite another wikipedia article. We normally cite something from outside wikipedia, but it has to be from a reliable source. kawaputra torque 13:53, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

how to travel to taj mahal
hOW CAN I ORGANISE A TRIP TO VISIT TAJ MAHAL FROM COLOMBO —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.31.241.79 (talk) 12:17, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Most likely, you would want to take a look at either your local travel agent or one online. Wikipedia is not a travel agency. -- tennis man  15:53, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a travel agency or newspaper classified section, try Craigs list or an online forum if you're interested in organizing a trip. Wikipedia IS an encyclopedia, and is a great place to learn about some place like the Taj Mahal or contribute verifiable facts with a netural point of view on it! Why not read the five pillars of Wikipedia for more information about who we are. Mr Senseless (talk) 18:42, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikitravel:Taj Mahal has some information you may find useful. Evidently you are not the first to consider a trip to the Taj Mahal. --Teratornis (talk) 22:56, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Bremerhaven Airport
Is it still useful to keep the and  below the Bremerhaven Airport article, as there is nothing more to add &mdash; unless we add the full content of the airmen charts and information of this kind? If not, may I remove these banners? — Kanġi Oĥanko (talk) 12:58, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * It stops being a stub when J. Random Editor can't expand it with nothing more than curiosity, Google, and five minutes' free time. If you think that's no longer the case, sure, remove the tags. Angus McLellan (Talk) 13:46, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Posting a Completely new topic, HOW ? WHERE ?
Hello, I am new to wikipedia, and I was reading the faq and everything but didn't got any normal explanation of my question for example what I should do if I want to post an information wit photos about a very famouse Bar in Santo Domingo - Dominican republic ?

Can you please tell me step by step what should be done ?

thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vladicorp (talk • contribs) 15:15, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Before creating an article, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Please also review a few of our relevant policies and guidelines which all articles should comport with. As Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, articles must not contain original research, must be written from a neutral point of view, should cite to reliable sources which verify their content and must not contain unsourced, negative content about living people.


 * Articles must also demonstrate the notability of the subject. Please see our subject specific guidelines for people, bands and musicians, companies and organizations and web content and note that if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends against you creating the article.


 * If you still think an article is appropriate, see Your first article and How to write a great article for guidance, and please consider taking a tour through the Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation.
 * And see Help:Images and other uploaded files. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:11, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

CDW
CDW is no longer Fortune 500 we are a private company bought out by Madison-Dearborn Partners. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.32.91.114 (talk) 16:05, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * This is a page for using Wikipedia. If the article exists, I suggest you modify it to support this claim, by adding references (that are reliable) and changing prose. Rt . 18:23, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Request the article be changed. You can't do it yourself without violating WP:COI. Feed  back  ☎ 18:30, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Doesn't seem to be true. I've checked every business news site and the CDW site, doesn't crop up. Most probably a hoax. Rt . 18:34, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * No hoax. CDW links and says: "On Friday, October 12, 2007, CDW's merger with Chicago based Madison Dearborn Partners was officially completed." It's announced at . PrimeHunter (talk) 21:21, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Darn it! :) Rt . 21:22, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

How to add a citation source to another's entry that has a "citation needed" note
I'm absolutely new to this -- I don't know how to resolve a "citation needed" notation in someone else's entry, so I (probably erroneously) created this User Talk page asking the question:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Bartbrn#top

User talk:Bartbrn From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search

I hope I'm doing this right... I was looking at a Wikipedia article on Del Close and found the following: "Around this time, Close also worked with John Brent to record the classic beatnik satire album How to Speak Hip. The album became a prized record for DJs worldwide, and was one of Brian Wilson’s favourite comedy albums.[citation needed]"

I happen to have that citation, but I don't know how to add it, or anything else on Wikipedia, for that matter.

The Del Close "How to Speak Hip" comments by Brian Wilson are from the Beach Boys' 5-disc box set, Thirty Years of The Beach Boys, on disc 5 of 5, track 6 of 24, "Hang On To Your Ego (sessions)"

Thirty Years of The Beach Boys Label: EMI Number of Discs: 5 Release Date: July 3, 1993 Item UPC: 077778129424

Bartbrn (talk) 23:34, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Please let me know how I SHOULD have done this.

Thanks!

bartbrnBartbrn (talk) 16:57, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Your citation is from a music CD? Is it a song? Im not sure if u can cite from a song. It might be better to rewrite the sentence and say that "Brian Wilson mentioned in the song "Hang on to your Ego" by The Beach Boys from the album Good Vibrations: Thirty Years of The Beach Boys that the album was his favorite." This way a citation might not be needed. But if u still wanted to add a citation, go to the page and remove the code and replace it with . See also WP:CITE and Template:Citation.  kawaputra torque 19:33, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

The track in question is a studio outtake, in which Brian Wilson is joking with his studio musicians, and he quotes from Del Close's "How To Talk Hip," an album which he admires. Then the track goes into the studio session of the Wilson song "Hang On To Your Ego." Bartbrn (talk) 17:40, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You could rewrite the sentence: "The musician Brian Wilson mentioned in an outtake of the track "Hang on to your Ego" from the Good Vibrations: Thirty Years of The Beach Boys box set that it was his favorite comedy album." OR, replace the code with Or something like that. Hope this helps.  kawaputra torque 07:31, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Admin mop logo on non-administrator user pages
Hello. Are editors that are not Wikipedia administrators allowed to place Image:Admin mop.PNG on their user pages? Some do, which I find misleading, and I was curious as to why. Thanks. ↔ Dennywuh (talk) 16:59, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Technically i don't think it's allowed to place it on, if they are not an admin they shouldn't have the admin symbol on the user pages, i've noticed it occasionally when going on editor's user pages i too sometimes find it misleading SKYNET X7000 (talk) 17:21, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Technically anyone is able to place an image anywhere and that 'symbol' is just that: an image. -- Menti  fisto  18:18, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's usually used when users display userboxes saying that they wish to become administrators. Could you give us some examples of userpage that you have visited? I can investigate further then. :) Rt . 18:20, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid I didn't make a note of those I've come across in the past, I can only point you to the one that brought me to ask the question today, Count Caspian. ↔ Dennywuh (talk) 18:41, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh I see. Yeah that's is a bit strange. The userbox (grey bit) usually contains the "admin someday" or something like that. Ah well, what ever floats your boat and all that... Rt . 21:00, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * If you go to the image page, Image:Admin mop.PNG, it lists all pages that contain the image on the English Wikipedia.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 19:48, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Deletions
I realized that article deletions (or any kind, I presume) made by admins could be restored... thus, WMF retains backups of everything that was deleted including the myriads of articles that newly registered users create each day about themselves? As I understand it only oversight users can delete material truly (and only revisions, not articles... as I read) - and then, not really, since developers can restore it. -- Menti  fisto  18:32, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * You are correct, any material posted on Wikipedia is essentially available forever, whether directly through page history or in the deleted contributions (which can be restored by a sysop.) Material deleted by oversight is permamently gone (and I don't believe is restorable even by developers) but this is only done at the direction of the Wikimedia Foundation or in the case of material that could cause serious legal problems if left around. Permament deletion is the exception, not the rule. Mr Senseless (talk) 18:38, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Nah, Oversight explains it: "Hidden revisions remain accessible to Oversight users through the log, and can be restored by a developer if a mistake was made." - it's semi-permanent. -- Menti  fisto  18:45, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Missing changes
i put a edit on the page and it is gone. I am the Rabbi of the CommandmentKeepers cong. I want to change the wikipedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Semiticcushim (talk • contribs) 18:48, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It seems you've been adding copyright violation material, all of which has been removed. Please remember to avoid coinflict of interest. Thank you. Rt . 13:28, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Updated congregations content, by Rabbi Z'chariah L'wi, the spiritual leader, to reflect and retain accuracy.
I updated the information about our congregation and it was deleted. I am the Rabbi of the congregation.

Semiticcushim (talk) 19:04, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Please don't post the same question multiple times. As I can see, your edits were reverted because of copyrights violation (see ) I assume you have copied/pasted the text from an external website, that is forbidden on Wikipedia. You have to make sure the materials you useare in the public domain if you want to add them to the articles. Otherwise you have to paraphrase. Please also take a look at Copyrights and Copyright FAQ. I hope this helps. PeaceNT (talk) 19:42, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect Font That is Really Small Using Wikipedia
I accidentally deleted my C:\WINDOWS\Fonts folder, and although I believe I recovered them, Wikipedia (and a few other sites) display incorrectly. The fonts have changed and become extremely small. I was able to edit my own CSS/stylesheet so that articles appeared in a more legiable font, but of course the menu tree is still messed up.

What is the default font that Wikipedia uses, so that I can ensure that it's installed on my system?

Thanks in advance! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sflorack (talk • contribs) 19:12, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * You could try increasing the font size in your browser. If you're using Firefox, go to  and increase the text size to the size you want. If you're using IE, go to   and change it.  Pyrospirit  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 19:54, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Deleting talk page info.
Hi, Does talk page content have to be kept, even if it has been dealt with? I think it does, but am not sure.

Cheers Thenthornthing (talk) 20:46, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi, yes, talk page content should be kept mainly for future reference if a similar situation comes up where a previous concensus can be useful. If a talk page is too long, it should be archived. For more info, see this page.  AndrewJD  TALK  -- 20:56, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * All you do is leave the message on the page. Eventually, if no one responds to the message, it will be archived and stored away, so you can just leave a message where it is. ~ Bella   Swan  20:56, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * thought so, thanks Thenthornthing (talk) 20:59, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You can use MiszaBot III, ClueBot III, or Shadowbot3 to perform automatic archiving.  N F 24 ( happy holidays! ) 21:01, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
Someone vandilized.
 * Could you be more specific? What page? Who? You can revert the vandalism yourself by clicking "edit this page" at the top of any page.  N F 24 ( happy holidays! ) 21:01, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The post was by an IP who doesn't know the page. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:07, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism on The Twelve Days of Christmas (song)
After I had a contribution rejected, I started watching The Twelve Days of Christmas (song) and now it looks very strange. I know my sources were at the bottom but now there's just a big red mess. Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 21:09, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

I see your advice to the person above, but it doesn't seem to be working. Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 21:12, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe I've just fixed it. The IP seemed to have vandalized 2 times before the one edit you reverted. ~ Bella   Swan  21:13, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * What "red mess" are you referring to? :) Rt . 21:14, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

It's gone now, but I don't see the sources. Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 21:15, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll try and add them back again. One minute.. Rt . 21:16, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * ✅ - Hope this has helped. Rt . 21:17, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, that was me, I reverted the 'red mess', but accidently removed the sources in the process. :P ~ Bella   Swan  21:19, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

I know I made a comment on a talk page and I can't find it in my contributions. However, I did get there from a search engine.

I was going to discuss whether the "hidden meanings" of the gifts should be listed, though the person who reverted me said in his reason that there were various versions. Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 21:41, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Beware; there's a lot of nonsense circulating about the so-called "hidden meanings" of these gifts. Don't let yourself be a sucker. -- Orange Mike  |  Talk  22:42, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

new account
hi i would like to set up a page for Adrian Kennedy, He prsents the FM104 phoneshow which you already have a page for. He has asked me to write to you because we can't find a link to start setting up a page. They're all just telling us how to create one. Please reply soon as he would like to be able to tell his listeners about the page which will bring many views to you as his show is the most listened to on Ireland. Again please reply soon! Thank You! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kennedy07 (talk • contribs) 21:20, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Type the article name in the left hand search box then click the red link at the top of the page. See Tutorial for basic wiki-formatting.  N F 24 ( happy holidays! ) 21:23, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Please remember to avoid a conflict of interest. And always use reliable sources. Hope this helps, Rt . 21:23, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikibreak enforcer
How do you make WikiProject User scripts/Scripts/WikiBreak Enforcer work on other wikis? 86.139.118.167 (talk) 22:39, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

If its a Wikimedia foundation sister project (Wikibooks, Wiktionary, Wikitravel, etc...) you can simply place the script in your monobook (just like on Wikipedia) for your account on that project and it should work. I'm not sure about non Wikimedia projects, though, if that's where you're trying to use the script, maybe ask a sysop on that Wiki. Mr Senseless (talk) 22:49, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Links that don't show up
I am trying to edit in the Sandbox to make a Wikipedia link to a Wikipedia article. That article is The Tempest. I entered it like this, The Tempest, but it didn't convert to a link when I hit "Show Preview." Other links that I used worked fine. Can anyone please suggest what I did wrong? Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Voiceperson (talk • contribs) 23:15, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Without seeing your edit it can only be speculation. If you didn't make a typo (for example having only one [ or ]), then it could have been because you accidentally hit the "Ignore wiki formatting" button (a red slash through W above the edit box), and wrote it inside the nowiki tags, producing this: The Tempest . Or you could have added your edit below somebody elses bad edit with a missing end tag. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:31, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Please excuse me, I forgot to sign my question. I'm the one who wrote the following: I am trying to edit in the Sandbox to make a Wikipedia link to a Wikipedia article, which is The Tempest. I entered it like this, The Tempest, but it didn't convert to a link when I hit "Show Preview." Other links that I used worked fine. Can anyone please suggest what I did wrong? Thank you.209.244.188.148 (talk) 23:24, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * When SineBot has signed for you there is no need to come back and do it or apologize. You were logged out when you signed here so an IP address was credited for the edit and used in the signature. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:38, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

martial arts
I WOULD LIKE TO PLACE A CHRISTIAN MARTIAL ARTS SYSTEM IN WIKIPEDIA BUT I DO NOT KNOW HOW PLEASE HELP ME.

ROBERT PETERSON —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.218.236.156 (talk) 23:34, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * What do you exactly mean by a "system"? If it's an article (page) in Wikipedia then create an account (see Special:Userlogin) and then read Your first article. Otherwise, please elabourate.  N F 24 ( happy holidays! ) 00:17, 22 December 2007 (UTC)