Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2007 February 13

=February 13=

Adding an Image
I'm trying to add an image to a biography page for the table on the right (the one that is in most bio pages) but the image tag isn't working, it's just showing the url of the image. KellanFabjance 00:52, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Which page are you working on? It'll be easier to diagnose if we can have a look at your edits. SubSeven 01:45, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Overwriting images
An image that I was using on my userpage - - changed suddenly, and the explanation was that someone loaded a new image on top of it using the same title. The pics are of totally different things: the old one is a husky dog, the new one is a character in an anime series. When I tried to revert to the previous version, the result was not the old image, but the new image with different dimensions. Also, whereas the image was previously on Commons, it seems now not to be, but to have been moved to en:Wiki. Two questions, then: a) is it OK to overwrite an existing image like this? and b) what did I do wrong when trying to revert to the previous image? HeartofaDog 01:29, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It looks like an image of a dog to me. Try a hard refresh (usually ctrl-r, I think). And no, this overwrite should not have happened. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 01:48, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * (The present image on my page IS the image of a dog - I dislike anime with a deep loathing and changed it before I did anything else). Thanks for the tip about Ctrl-R - I'll remember it future use, but problem solved for now - see below. HeartofaDog 15:16, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * That's why people should upload images with more specific filenames. Find out who uploaded both images and ask them to rename them (for example so they include the username of the uploader). BTW, what anime character is called Husky? - Mgm|(talk) 10:09, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * (You want to know about Husky the effeminate watersprite with attitude? see +Anima for a detailed exposition). Thanks for the advice - problem solved for now - see below. But please tell me: can I as an ordinary editor rename an image myself like I can an article? HeartofaDog 15:16, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict} Someone has kindly sorted out the image and left a note for the overwriting uploader, so I'm off the hook. Thanks for the advice. HeartofaDog 15:16, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It wasn't overwritten, but what happened should have happened - if you link to a Commons image called Image:Husky.jpg, you will see that image, unless an image of the same name exists on the local Wikipedia (in this case, en.wikipedia). So when an image also called Husky.jpg was uploaded to en:Wiki, it takes priority over an image of the same name held on Commons.  If the image is free, and being used on an article, then you can upload it to Wikipedia under a more specific name (such as HuskyDog.jpg) yourself.  Proto ::  ►  14:55, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Right - I can see how that would work, although doesn't that slightly undercut Commons, which surely is the preferred option? Anyway, thanks for the clear explanation. HeartofaDog 15:16, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

formatting question
probably pretty easy question, and I did briefly look over the faq and didnt see anything. I've also looked at several other pages on cars and couldnt see that i was doing anything different.

Basicly on the engines data it has a space after the first and before the last. what gives?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Chevelle —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.146.250 (talk • contribs)


 * It seems to have been caused by the linebreaks between each item in the list of engine types (next to "|engine"). I've removed the linebreaks so it looks like the format shown at Template_talk:Infobox_Automobile_generation. Ugly, but it works. —Xhantar Talk 02:10, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

html code
wht is the html code for me to put a 'wikipedia search' on my web site? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.42.207.41 (talk • contribs)


 * Not sure if there is any policy on Wikipedia about searching directly from external websites, but I can't really think of any reason why you can't. This should work (stolen from here and slightly modified):




 * Hope this helps. —Xhantar Talk 03:02, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for creation question
Hello, I've been browsing Wikipedia:Articles for creation and would like to decline some requests that appear to be not suitable for wikipedia. Are there requirements for becoming an articles for creation judge? If so, what are the requirements. Metallic95 02:06, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Just go in there and leave a not that you don't think the article would be suitable, and why. Maybe even  strikethrough  the article name.  If someone comes along later and agrees, they can remove it.  If someone disagrees, they can state why or maybe start the article.
 * I feel like it shouldn't just be taken down without comment because it might just get re-requested, or may actually deserve an article.  Misha t x  *разговор* 02:17, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Any registered user can close an AFC if they feel competent with doing that. There are instructions on the right-hand column at the top of AFC. (You create the closebox with {{subst:afc top}} and {{subst:afc b}}; make sure you write a reason, and also remember that you should delete the content of the submission if it's nonsense, copyvio, or a personal attack.) --ais523 10:17, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Can the system be fixed so that you can edit "Section Zero" of an article?
Or "Subsection Zero" of an article, for that matter. In other words, not the rest of the article/section.
 * You can achieve this by clicking the edit-button of a different section and then manually editing the url to read &action=edit&section=0. For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Flag_of_Vermont&action=edit&section=1 --> section zero --> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Flag_of_Vermont&action=edit&section=0. You can also click the general edit button and paste &section=0 at the end of the url. Niels |en talk-nl talk (faster response)| 02:29, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * You can also add this code to your monobook.js. It creates a new tab (called "0") which edits the zero section when you click it. –RHolton ≡ – 03:06, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Default edit summary
Is there any way to specify a default edit summary to be shown in the edit summary edit box on an article's edit page? I checked Preferences but couldn't find anything. I might be blind, though. Thanks. —Xhantar Talk 02:14, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * No, not that I'm aware of. There is an option to remind you if you've left the edit summary blank, though. –RHolton ≡ – 02:57, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * You could probably put something in your monobook; I'll see what I can come up with tomorrow and let you know on your talkpage. Veinor (talk to me) 03:52, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I doubt there's one default edit summary that can be used even 20% of the times. I have, however, settled on a set of edit summaries that fit 90% of occasions. Firefox, my browser, offers a drop-down menu of a list recently used items, and I just choose the correct one from there. Xiner (talk, email) 04:02, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Clean up Page
your website is NOT user friendly to just report a problem. Wow to read all of those pages of how to handle vandalism is crazy. I went in under Oceans and found under Pysical properties that the paragraph had been alerted with some bad language. My grandson and I were researching for a project and this is what we found. I like your site but again you need a simple way for just researchers to let you know there is problems. Thanks for your attention to this matter.
 * There's a place called Stablepedia, I can't remember the URL, if you google it you'd find it easily. It presents the latest non vandalized version of Wikipedia for you.  The only problem is new information or grammatical errors might be there, and you can't update Stablepedia.  Even if they update once a week, the amount of edits made in just one week is astronomical.  We always hate to see these sort of things happen, it's fortunate you didn't run into something worse (incidents back in December got really bad).  Generally, vandalism is caught easily and what you encountered is likely already gone.  Bear in mind, of course, that even as an anonymous editor, you can edit the majority of pages and take the vandalism out yourself.  There might be some place for you to report edits, but I wouldn't know the exact link.  Again, our apologies.   Dooms  Day349  03:12, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Have you tried the "contact us" link in the menu on the left? Anyway, things like that are usually fixed pretty quickly (often quicker than you can take to write a message to report it) and if you read WP:REVERT you will know how to fix it yourself immediately without waiting for someone else. - Mgm|(talk) 10:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Need Help to Delete Pages
I created a page for Cyclone Records, but unfortunately did not realize that my original search for the page included quotes and therefore the end result page also has quotes in the name. I then attempted to create the page with no quotes and erroneously did not capitalize the "R" in Records.

I have now set up a third and proper page called Cyclone_Records and would like to delete the first two attempts but don't dare attempt anything else on my own for fear of screwing things up even further:

"Cyclone Records" Cyclone_records

Can you please delete these two pages for me please and retain the proper one: Cyclone_Records.

Thanks.


 * I've changed them to redirects. So now they both point to Cyclone Records.  In the future if you want a page deleted and you're the only editor to it, you can put  on the page and some admin will come along to delete it.  Dismas |(talk) 04:46, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Australia Post item
hi

I work for the Corporate Public Affairs department of Australia Post. In the article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_Post in the box on the right hand side the Australia Post logo is out of date as well as some of the information. Am I able to edit this myself or can I send you the latest logo and the changes.

many thanks for any help you are able to provide me.

best regards,

Gillian Mayne

(E-Mail removed for security purposes)

03 9204 5271
 * Look...You're already doing it! :o)  I fixed some coding a little...if you need any help editing that infobox on the right-hand side, then just let me know!  tiZom(2¢)  05:27, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

language
how can i learn english as a language with its grammar via wikipedia ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zep 25 (talk • contribs)
 * Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and its featured articles generally adhere to the highest standards of grammar. Going through them would help and also be bold and make changes to articles where you think the grammar is not correct. At worst, you will be corrected and will learn something in the process. As long as you edit here in good faith, people will definitely help you out. There are obviously other better, structured ways to learn english and Wikipedia does not have any language tutorials &mdash; Lost (talk) 07:12, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * You can start by reading English grammar. Unlike Lost, I recommend you don't change any grammar unless you know what you're doing. Wikipedia uses different varieties of English in different articles and what may look wrong to Americans is perfectly acceptable to British readers. Don't go changing something to either variety unless you know what our manual of style has to say about this. Changing something that isn't wrong can cause a lot of unneccesarly problems. - Mgm|(talk) 09:58, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * When in doubt about making any change to an article, discuss it first on an article's talk page. As a very approximate rule of thumb, consider the quality of an article first. A brand-new user, for example, probably should not make extensive edits to a featured article. Featured articles have already received extensive editing from some of Wikipedia's most advanced editors, making it unlikely the article would still have errors or deficiencies a new editor could recognize and correct. (I should mention that if you want to learn English, it helps to read well-written English, and Wikipedia's featured articles represent the best writing on Wikipedia.) At the other end (the bottom) of the article quality scale are stubs. If you know something about the subject of a stub article, you can probably improve the article by adding what you know to it, even if your English grammar is not good. As long as other editors can understand your meaning, they can clean up the grammar. In general, the poorer an article is currently, the more likely that a new Wikipedia user is able to improve it. Articles of low quality vastly outnumber articles of high quality on Wikipedia, so there is plenty of editing for everyone to do. --Teratornis 18:26, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * You might be interested in the Simple English Wikipedia, which uses a small set of English words. It is intended for people who are just learning English.  Corvus cornix 00:30, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

(auto)Archive my user talk
Hi, How do i auto-archive my user talk? Please help me do this... Thanks!
 * You need to request a bot to do your archiving for you. You might want to read User:Werdnabot/Archiver/Howto for instructions on requesting Werdnabot to do the archiving (there are other bots which will do talkpage archiving as well). --ais523 08:50, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Street names
When I am writing an article about a street, should the article title be created with the format 'Smith Street (City)' or as 'Smith Street, City'? With a comma or brackets? Bobbacon 08:38, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * See Naming conventions (places). If it's more reasonable to think that people would write the city name when they write the street name, use a comma; if the street's sufficiently well known that people normally wouldn't write the city name when writing the street name unless it's ambiguous, use brackets. --ais523 08:44, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Going by Fifth Avenue, I'd say the former since that redirects to Fifth Avenue (Manhattan). I then checked Rodeo Drive (just the first to come to mind) and that had the category of Category:Streets in Los Angeles County, California.  That listing seems to also favor the parenthesis style.  Dismas |(talk) 08:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * thanks, I will go with the street followed by the brackets and in any future cases, unless as suggested you would automatically think to search for the street with the city name. Bobbacon 09:48, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

news papers
how can i see the news which came in the newspapers long back in 1870s as it is, including pictures?
 * The newspaper will have archives on microfilm as do a lot of libraries. What newspaper are you looking for? - Mgm|(talk) 09:55, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * This is something that might be better addressed at Reference desk - please take a look there. -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 13:25, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Image Use
Hi, I would like to write an article about a singer/group. However despite having read the various image policy guidelines I am extremely confused about what images I can use. If I take a photograph of an album cover can I use this? What about an image of the singer taken from a video? Similarly images of the artist posted on their web pages. I am able to write the article without images but they would be very useful to illustrate certain points. Thank you Hotmann 10:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Generally speaking, you can't use pictures on Wikipedia unless the copyright has been licensed using a free use licence. None of the examples you've given are free use, as the copyright belongs to someone else and they're very unlikely to have released it under a free use licence. Wikipedia has some provisions for non-free-use images, however; the album cover can normally be used to illustrate an article about the album, under the fair use criteria (but make sure that you read them and that they all apply first!), but the other images probably wouldn't be usable at all (unless for some reason there was an article about the image in question, rather than the artist). Obtaining free-use images of celebrities is a contentious issue at the moment; it has been known for Wikipedians to take photos of celebrities so that they can be licenced as free-use, but failing that you'll just have to do without images. --ais523 10:56, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * You can also write nicely to the copyright holder of the website and ask them if they would freely release an image (note, images solely for use on Wikipedia are not permitted - read Copyrights and GFDL to find out why); they will have to email permission directly to Wikipedia. The process is described in detail at Requesting copyright permission.  Proto ::  ►  12:24, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, and some sample requests can be found at Example_requests_for_permission. Hope that helps. Proto ::  ►  12:25, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Responding to a user
How do I respond to someone who has submitted an answer to my question?
 * Users have User talk pages, which allow other people to communicate with them; mine is User talk:ais523. Editing a user's Talk page will send them a message. You can click on someone's signature, then on 'discussion' at the top of the screen, to reach their talk page; or some users will have a 'leave me a message' link on their user page or a 'talk' link in their signature, which can be used as a shortcut. If you want to reply to a Help Desk question, you can click 'edit' next to its section header to edit the discussion from that question and respond there instead if you like. (Note that on discussion pages like the Help Desk and user-talk pages, it's usual to write ~ at the end of the comment, to insert your signature.) Hope that helps! --ais523 13:12, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * For more info: Help:Talk page. --Teratornis 18:09, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Wiki Mashup?
As much as I absolutely loathe the term, is there an integrated wiki mapping mash up tool or one that is properly licensed for wikipedia? JohnCub 14:34, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Mapping has several meanings, as its disambiguation page shows. If you refer to cartography, this may help: Maps. --Teratornis 18:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes that's exactly what I was hoping for, thank you very much! JohnCub 18:07, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Also see Web mapping, a survey article more or less on the subject, which needs more editing by the way, especially with linking the remaining unlinked jargon terms to their defining articles. The whole field is very complicated, with many redundant efforts it seems. I suggest reading carefully about all the options and tools before deciding how you will proceed with whatever project you have in mind. No sense in dumping a lot of work into something you might end up throwing out for something else later. --Teratornis 21:29, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Perhaps it would make more sense if I divulged my intent with this request. What I'd like to see is a way to map where specific dinosaur fossils have been found.  I'm no scientist but I figured if I could at least find a way to make a mapping / discovery thing work I could help with this.  I'm thinking a world map with editable coordinates to just put a point on the map, possibly linking to a wikipage of the the find / dig if that's acceptable or to a news release or something of the find.


 * I think what I'm looking for is a basic thing but after reading a bit into this I might be biting off half the apple and thinking I'm just getting a taste. Any thoughts or direction? JohnCub 02:06, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * What, no interest in Teratorn fossils? (Sorry, that was an attempt at a joke on my user name.)


 * A very large number of Wikipedia articles can benefit from maps. Since MediaWiki has no built-in geographic/cartographic features (as far as I know), different people have used/are developing different methods to hack them in, from drawing maps in external applications and uploading them as image files, to writing templates such as Coor, Coor d, Geolinks-US-streetscale, and probably other methods I have not found yet. (Ah, a bit of browsing around shows a lot of changes to WikiProject Geographical coordinates since the last time I looked.) If you edit an article that is about a single location of fossil finds (such as Big Bone Lick State Park), adding a single set of coordinates to the article is straightforward. See the article's wikitext to see how that works. (Note that clicking on the coordinates in the upper right corner of the article (in the default skin, anyway) links to a dynamic page of links to several map sites that display maps or aerial photographs of the location.)


 * If you have a list of coordinates you want to want to display, one method would be to find one of the coordinate templates that you could use multiple times on a single page, and put your coordinates into a table. I don't know an example of such a page, but I would like to do that myself, to illustrate the intersection turn locations in a bicycle route (on Bicycling Wiki). --Teratornis 03:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I should clarify that what you can do with the coordinate templates is kind of the inverse of what you want to do. Instead of starting with a map and letting people link from points on the map to articles about those locations, you can use the coordinate templates to let people link from articles to map sites that show the locations the articles are about. What you want to do (edit clickable points on an actual map, via a wiki interface) has been proposed on Wikimaps. I don't know the status of what's in development or already available; I only know this feature doesn't seem to be built in to Wikipedia yet, and is sorely needed for fossil finds and lots more things. --Teratornis 03:11, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Commander In Chief
Sorry I don't have time now to investigate this, but Commander In Chief currently redirects to the TV series. Just seems a bit interesting as I'd have thought there'd be more to write on other aspects of the phrase, but perhaps I'm wrong? Can anyone shed some light on this? Thanks. Xiner (talk, email) 14:35, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It should redirect to Commander-in-Chief, which is the article about the title. I have fixed this, thanks for spotting it!  Proto ::  ►  14:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, of course. Thank you. Xiner (talk, email) 14:55, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Template/stub ordering
Is there a way to order templates/stubs on a page? On this page Storybook Glen the two stubs would look and sit better above the template box, however I cannot get this to happen. In the code the stubs are both places before the box but it still insists on ordering itself with one stub below and the other above the box. Bobbacon 15:15, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair use, images, woes.
Hello,

Whenever I want to add something to Wikipedia, I try to look at other articles to see how others are doing the same thing I want to do. I have a few images that I'd like to add to some articles, some of these should be OK, as I asked for permission to use them here. But others have been scanned/taken from other sources and there might be a problem... So I checked other photos on other articles and they don't seem to be 100% alright, yet, they have not been deleted. Eg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Alison_Krauss_Grammys.jpg (from a featured article, no less). Let's say I find a photo on a book, newspaper, magazine or website. Is it OK to scan it and/or upload it to Wikipedia, if the point is to illustrate or clarify something in the article, if I credit it to the best of my ability, if the photo is of low resolution and if I'm not uploading dozens of photos? To me, this would be under the fair use umbrella, but I'm not entirely sure after reading the guidelines and especially after seeing the licensing options on the upload page (some options seem to be missing, although the tags can still be used). 0cm 16:42, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * We're trying to make a free (as in speech) encyclopedia here. Fair use images do not help with this task except when they are required for an article to have any meaning (historical paintings and photographs). Expect that fair use images will be even more restricted than they are right now. In short, the answer to your question is likley no, but it depends on the case. You can see more info at WP:FUC. Hipocrite - &laquo; Talk &raquo; 16:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * "Can this image be replaced by a different one, while still having the same effect?" -- for many articles, this seems almost impossible. Especially for past events, which are a bit different from other kinds of article (an article about a building, a town, an animal, an object, that you can just approach and photograph). Another problem is asking permission, in certain cases, I've found that the copyright-holder no longer exists (ie: a defunct newspaper). I understand the reasons for the restrictions on images, but at the same time, they seem too restrictive, while it's clear that they aren't being followed or that they're not clear/consistent enough to be followed. If that makes sense... So you think I shouldn't add any images like the ones I mentioned above? I'd rather not, if they're not appropriate and will possibly/eventually be deleted, but at the same time, there are already so many questionable images on Wikipedia, it's almost naive not to upload them when they could improve a certain article. 0cm 17:17, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Is this reportable?
While we're on the subject of the introduction and Lucy-marie's evasion of criticism of her edits, this seems particularly relevant.

An anon editor changed the ideology from ethnic nationalism to White nationalism with an edit summary stating "White Nationalism is more accurate because the party is against immigrants of a visible minority. The party membership is restricted to Caucasians not only to brits" [15]. Lucy-marie immediately reverts it back with an edit summary stating "please discuss your edit this may be considered orignal research" [16]. It should be noted it is not the first time Lucy-marie has reverted this change either. However Lucy-marie is not averse to making unsourced changes without discussion in a different direction. For example she changed the BNP's position from Far right to Exact position disputed with absolutely no edit summary or discussion [17]. When the edit in question was reverted Lucy-marie again reinserted the text with the (somewhat confusing) edit summary of "here we go again we are trying to be constructive but WGee strikes again we are not white washing we are trying to de emphasise immigration" [18]. Perhaps Lucy-marie could explain why any edits that might portray the BNP in a more negative light are reverted with an edit summary claiming original research, yet she is willing to make similar edits without discussion or sources to try and portray the BNP in a more positive light? I did bring this up earlier but I never got an answer, hopefully this time my query can be addressed please?

Also worth mentioning is this edit [19]. VoluntarySlave had added a source for the list of UAF supporters, yet Lucy-marie mysteriously removes the source with an edit summary of "UAF are a pressure group". Is there any reason for the removal of the source in question please? One Night In Hackney 06:56, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * This seems to be more of a critique about my edits and me personally more than anything else.


 * Also do guidelines have to be complied with or is it soley policy which must be complied with?

--Lucy-marie 16:48, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Policies, guidelines, and essays Xiner (talk, email) 21:57, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Upgrading frm GA to FA
Can someone please take a disinterested look at the Amanda Dowler article and see where improvement to the article can be made.--Lucy-marie 17:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Your best bet is probably to put up an RFC (request for comments). That way more people will see it and be able to offer feedback.  Good luck, meshach 06:41, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

"You have new messages (last change)" harassment
What is happening? I click on "new messages" and "last change", and I find the same perplexing messages on my talk page. When I go to another article, the "new messages" box reappears, and won't go after I click either link. The messages on my page are regarding some page I never visited. Confused, I looked at my user contributions, and found two, not the twenty or so I was expecting for my IP address; both were on the article in question: some obscure Japanese city. I checked the changes with the "diff" link and found inane vandalism I certainly didn't do. So just what is going on? And more importantly, how do I get rid of that annoying orange box? 211.28.243.181 17:28, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It's probably a shared IP address that someone else was using. If you register an account, then this sort of thing doesn't happen. And that orange box goes away after you read the messages, though there might be a bit of lag. Veinor (talk to me) 17:30, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Question about article title
I want to create an article about a "Torrent Box" and I was wondering if I should make the article title "Torrent Box(Hardware)" so people do not confuse it with software or a website of a similar name.
 * I'd suggest naming it 'Torrent box' for now; if another one comes up, we can cross that bridge when we come to it. Veinor (talk to me) 18:27, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair Use Policy
Why does this policy exist? All it does is unnecessarily restrict what you can and can't have on your user page. It is only recent as it was added in 2006 as revealed by a user on Jimbo Wales' talk page and apparently many users consider it a complete sham. How did Wikipedia manage without it and why can't Wikipedia continue to manage without it? Henchman 2000 19:11, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * We need some form of a fair use policy in order to stay safe legally. Most editors here would agree with you that our current policy is far too biased against fair use images.  However, the majority of users who edit the policy pages are really against almost any kind of fair use at all.  In order to make the policy more accepting of legally allowed fair use, the policy needs to be changed. Johntex\talk 21:04, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The German language Wikipedia bans fair use completely, insisting on free images. Does this really make it such a bad encyclopedia? Notinasnaid 21:57, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Sex Ant Toys
I put a deletion suggestion template on the article Sex Ant Toys because this band is too minor and unknown. But someone removed the template without making his point, and under the claim "adding sourcing and references" (look at the history of the page ). What, nevertheless, can be done? Should the article be deleted? (By the way, around this unimportant subject, many articles which are even less important were created) Tomer T 20:17, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * This article smells of WP:COI. The article is still non-notable, to me - 21 Google hits will not really make the band any more notable should sources be found.  Proposed deletion says you should take it to AfD, where, I imagine, it will be deleted.   x42bn6  Talk 20:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I listed this for deletion. Please see Articles_for_deletion/Sex_Ant_Toys. Johntex\talk 20:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)