Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2007 January 18

= January 18 =

Fan art
How do I deal with someone who insists a picture I scanned from a comic book is incorrect and replaces it and the description with information gotten from a piece of fan art? In specific, we're arguing over the identification of an extremely minor character for a list of characters, and he is comparing my scan to a piece of fan art and saying that the character has too many differences from the fan art image to be the character in question. -- 〈 Miriam The Bat  〉( Talk ) ( Contribs ) ( Sign Me! ) 00:48, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Edit: The argument: talk:List of experiments from Lilo & Stitch -- 〈 Miriam The Bat  〉( Talk ) ( Contribs ) ( Sign Me! ) 00:50, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * A precusory glance leads me to think he's dealing with original research. If that's the case, quote him WP:OR and insist on reliable references for his claims. If he continues to remove content without justification, use templates like needsource or test1a on his user page (see WP:TUSER). Remember to subst: per instructions. Xiner (talk, email) 01:14, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Though there are strong arguments against including copyright images, fan art of copyright characters has just as many problems. Clearly no free alternative can be available, but it's important to make sure any fair use claim is completely justified. The use of copyright images for illustrating a gallery has been challenged before (e.g. in discographies). It is never going to be possible to illustrate everything.Notinasnaid 11:05, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Explanation of categories
Other than the cfd page, where can one post a question about categories? I am trying to understand the difference between Category:Canadian immigrants to the United States, Category:Canadian expatriates in the United States, and Category:Canadian Americans. The last category listed was supposedly nominated for deletion on Feb 9, 2006 (and no consensus was reached), but I couldn't find the discussion on the archive link provided. I can't figure out the nuances between these three related categories.--Vbd 01:25, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You could try the discussion pages of the categories, but I doubt you'll find many responses. Language-wise, the first and the last should be merged, and the second one renamed to "Canadian citizens in..." Anyone care to make my wish come true? Xiner (talk, email) 01:30, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Xiner. Do you know what the rules are for reposting something to the cfd page?  I can't tell if they considered merging the two you suggested and renaming the other one because I can't find the discussion.  But if I am allowed to revisit an issue, I would gladly post your recommendation.  I suppose that the worst thing that could happen is that I get told to go away.--Vbd 01:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Bring it to CFD. —Dark•S hik ari [T] 01:48, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Harassment by TStein
I feel that i am being haraased and victimised by TStein This is by the unwaranted addition of a warning and then two more warning to my talk page about a subject whihc was resolved and i ahd moved away from. TStein Is also acting outside of the authority of regular user by almost saying that what he is doing is right. I would have accepted the warning when the problem with me was occuring, but during that period I genuinly belived what I was doing was right. I may have been later proved wrong but TStein is dragingn up the issue again. I would also not removed it from talk page if it was put there by an admin, but i removed it as i thought it was a joke at first, but i turned out TStein was being serious so i left a message on TStein talk page and then added anothe warning about removing the original warning. I think one of a number of things are happening here with TStein and the are either:
 * 1) I am being victimised and harassed by TStein.
 * 2) TStein is deliberatly trying to drag up and infalme an edit war again.
 * 3) TStein is being beligerant and dosent like someone disagreeing and is using my talk page and subsequently wikipedia to make a point.
 * I just want TStein to leave me and my talk page well alone so I can get on with doing what I want to do and not have TStein say what I must do. --Lucy-marie 01:55, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Because you have not left the warnings in question on your talk page, it is difficult to assess this conflict. Removing warnings yourself is generally considered poor etiquette and not cool. However, I looked at the warnings in the talk page history; if TStein's assertions about your actions are correct, he has valid points: you should strive for consensus as part of your editing, and if you find you have edited an article against consensus, you should not reinsert those edits into the article. --Tkynerd 02:07, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Tkynerd, it is my understanding that there is no policy requiring editors to retain warning templates. Am I wrong? Is there a guideline somewhere that describes it as 'poor etiquette' or 'not cool'? Anchoress 02:59, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You're right, Anchoress, although there's also the warning templates for removing the warnings (e.g., Drmmt). I think the first one could be justified here, but using it always brings the risk of turning an editing episode into something other than what had instigated it in the first place. I think eventually someone will work on a better solution, but meanwhile, we should just let it go and warn the users for the actual infractions if they continue. Xiner (talk, email) 03:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Anchoress, you'll note that I did not refer to policy or guidelines in my reply to Lucy-marie. My understanding of community consensus on Wikipedia is that removing warnings from your talk page is strongly frowned upon unless it can be demonstrated that they were placed for no good reason. That happens not to be the case here. --Tkynerd 03:06, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The reason why I asked is because my understanding is that there is no community consensus on the appropriateness of removing warnings; I am not being faux naif or disingenuous; I asked because I know the issue is brought up regularly and I didn't know if opinion had changed. I believe that in the absence of a policy or guideline, there is sufficient community division on the matter render your warning to the original poster inappropriate. Anchoress 03:56, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It would help, Lucy-Marie, if you provided links to edit summaries (specifically, the ones that were reasons for the warnings.) .V. (talk) 03:10, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll do it: diff - results of multiple consecutive edits by Lucy-marie, diff, diff, diff. Relevant edit summaries: "persosns is an icorrect grammar pluralisation it is people or a person or a person's rights and carried out a clean up"; "Undo revision 97430721 by Emeraude (talk) as no clear reasonsning given as to why persosn is used it dosent read correctly and is bad grammar"; "Undo revision 98777518 by Skapur (talk) please be constructive and contribute to the rfc i think this page may need protecting until frc completed". --Tkynerd 03:22, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I hope that you are able to resolve this issue, but this discussion really should be moved off the help desk, where it may just disconcert newcomers, to a more appropriate place: perhaps one of your talkpages, or a noticeboard? Thanks for your consideration. Newyorkbrad 03:14, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Removal of warnings from user pages (by the user) is not a violation of policy. The notice is still viewable via the page history should an admin or another editor decide to review a user's history for a possible pattern of problems.
 * Complaints of this type might be taken to Wikiquette alerts; you might also want to look at WP:EQ. John Broughton  |  ♫♫ 20:21, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

How can I format this right?
Hi. I have a signature I want to format. You can find what it should look like at User:.V./sandbox. The lower piece of text is how it actually looks in practice. Can anyone help me fix this? Thanks! .V. (talk) 03:12, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Ehm, but if the upper part works, why not use that? I don't get your point. Niels |en talk-nl talk (faster response)| 03:20, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Apart from that: in the bottom part you use Talk Email which should either be TalkEmail or TalkEmail . Niels |en talk-nl talk (faster response)| 03:23, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Did you check the Raw Signature box in your preferences? Xiner (talk, email) 03:25, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the replies; it seems like the tags were what was wrong. But it now seems to format the date on a newline... anyone know how to fix that one? .V. -- (TalkEmail)  04:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Try .V. -- (TalkEmail)  - notice that I used "font" instead of "div" - you have to click on 'edit' to see the code, of course. --Kainaw (talk) 07:38, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Using the deprecated "font" tag with a "style=" attribute is strange, to say the least. I suggest using "span" instead. --Dapeteばか 10:58, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Verification
in wikipedia ..everywhere i have seen a edit option. means any one can modify. is there any verification done after these editing from your side or not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.101.61.10 (talk • contribs) 23:27, January 17, 2007
 * Verification is usually done by other editors, such as yourself. This way, you don't simply have to take the word of a Wikipedia page, you can see where others got the information from. If there's no source to verify, then the text should be removed until it can be. That's the best part of Wikipedia: anybody can add text, but everyone else can make sure it's really a fact and not just opition. -- Kesh 04:33, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Often, sentences, paragraphs, or even whole articles will have tags saying that information doesn't have a source - this is an indication that the information may not be correct and thus should be taken with a grain of salt...Wikipedia is a lot about common sense - don't take anything blindly without being a bit skeptical that someone's pulling your leg. But overall, popular articles are usually quite accurate. — Keakealani · ? · ! · @   06:06, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Starting a New Article Of Our Site
Dear Sir,

I would like to post articles related our category segment but I could not able to get where actually it has to post..please send me the details where it should be done...

Is there any option is available in the site to post articles..in the site??
 * Generally speaking, starting an article about your own site, or anything you're personally involved in is a bad idea because most people tend not to be objective in such cases. Please see WP:WEB and WP:N to see if your site or category segment (whatever that is) follows inclusion guidelines and read WP:YFA and Tutorial about how to write an article. - Mgm|(talk) 10:52, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * In addition, WP:COI has information on conflicts of interest; you should review that if you're posting about your own company, organization, personal website, etc.  John Broughton  |  ♫♫ 20:16, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Help...trouble with my personal page
Please, can someone help! I just began working on my "personal" page, and included a photo. It took several tries. When then thumbnail is enlarged, the history is revealed, showing my real name, and not just my user name...also the source of the picture (on my computer). I cannot delete "History" items, and need the help of an Administrator.

My user name is Prof.rick ...I don't want my actual name to be seen. Thank you Prof.rick 10:01, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Cleaning up history is hard, but there is another approach. You can get the image deleted, much less work for an administator, then put it back again without the history. If it was an article you could add to it, but I'll have to leave it to someone else to say how it's done for a picture. Notinasnaid 10:36, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You can list the image for deletion at Images and media for deletion. I don't know if there is a faster way; this doesn't seem to qualify for speedy delete.  -- John Broughton  |  (♫♫) 23:28, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Deeplinking to wikipedia
Is it possible to use content of wikipedia on your own site, however WITHOUT copying the content itself (so if the page in wikipedia gets modified, it gets automatically modified on your private website in 'realtime' as well). I would like to have just plain text of wikipedia>>subject on my page, without the menus/tabs/style of wikipedia. 82.170.69.65 17:20, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Nope. This would also be frowned upon, as the load would still be on Wikipedia to serve the content to your viewers. You're better off just copying it to your own site, or posting a direct link to the page in question if you don't want to update it yourself. -- Kesh
 * ...or both.  Th  e Tr ans hu  man  ist    10:21, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

not quite a legal threat, but...
A user is insisting that content not appear in Wikipedia because the person it concerns wouldn't want it here. The user is not actually making legal threats (yet) and I am wondering where I can direct this editor to obtain more information on relevant legal policies and perhaps file a formal or semiformal complaint or whatever the problem supposedly necessitates. The relevant text is in the edit summaries of this history page and User_talk:Coelacan if it matters. — coe l acan t a lk  — 11:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * This can most often be dealt with for text content by applying existing policies properly. Is the information sourced? If not, it must be removed immediately if challenged; this is specific to biographies of living people I should note. Beyond that, if it is sourced, examine the source. Does it meet Wikipedia's definitions of a reliable source (e.g. good: newspaper, book; bad: blog, online forum, some web site not associated with a publisher). Source bad: delete immediately. Does that cover this case? Notinasnaid 11:35, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It certainly does, but I think the user wants somewhere to complain. Is there anything more specific than WP:RFC? Anything that concerns pseudo-legal complaints? — coe l acan t a lk  — 11:45, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm, a superficial look at the links suggests the debate is actually about whether to include a picture, in which case none of the above apply. If it is a copyright picture, the fair use argument must be strong, and the argument there doesn't seem to cover inclusion in Saints Sergius and Bacchus at all. Notinasnaid 11:51, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I see that someone has changed the description of the picture. I didn't notice that. I'll have to look into whether this is a painting of Sergius and Bacchus or Polyeuctus and Nearchus. Regardless, the issue is apparently going to arise with this artist's work, no matter what article it's in. — coe l acan t a lk  — 11:58, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It is indeed. The only applicable policy, I think, is to carefully examine fair use claims. Notinasnaid 12:07, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

List of articles started by xxxx
Is there a simple way to generate a list of articles begun by a specific user? --Dweller 13:41, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Interiot has a script that does that. Kusma (討論) 13:49, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Official Site link in infobox being a pay site advertisement.
My question deals with the Gianna Michaels article, due to her "official site" link being a membership pay site, albeit in her name and possibly a legit official site (although this is not verified), but still a pay site. I was wondering if this is classified blatant advertising and should not be allowed at least in the infobox, if not entire article in general. Btl 13:50, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I've removed the link because it provides nothing beyond the other three links. Xiner (talk, email) 14:19, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

NEED HELP
HOW CAN I DOWNLOAD INFORMATION?
 * Can you give an example of what you want to be able to do? Notinasnaid 14:56, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

i was trying to add a citation to the article on Elective dictatorship, but kept messing up. Can i just give YOU guys the info and get you to do it??
 * Go to the article's discussion page. Post the info there and someone should take care of it. Xiner (talk, email) 16:58, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, sign your comments with four of these ~ things-- SU IT  42 04:16, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Creating My Own WikiPedia page.
Ok. Someone please help me. I want to create my own page about me. Just thought it'd be kinda fun. Have my own page on wikipedia.com. The problem is I dont know where to go on this darned site to do that. HELP ME! ... Please ...


 * Not everything is notable enough for an article on Wikipedia, so if you started a page about yourself it would probably be deleted. Why don't you try starting a page on something encyclopaedic that you are interested in, in which case you may like to see the instructions here. Trebor 16:30, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Or you could register and put whatever you want on your own user page. Clarityfiend 17:48, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, not really anything you want. I get the impression that registering only to create a user page is frowned upon, and also having user pages which just seem to be self-promotion rather than about one's Wikipedia work. Notinasnaid 18:01, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * If you do choose to register, you might find this link helpful, though you should not view registration as a means of using an encyclopædia to publish information about yourself. Adrian M. H. 21:37, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

NAFTA page errors.
Personally I don't know the specific details, but the NAFTA main page has been trolled in sorts.

Links to exports such as "buttholes" and The phasing out over "six thousand sum years"

Just thought you should know!
 * Thanks, I've reverted. If you want to correct vandalism like this in future, see WP:REVERT. Trebor 17:16, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Link to wikiquotes
I don't know how to fix the link from Casablanca (film) to wikiquotes. It's trying to link to 'Casablanca (film)' when the wikiquotes article is actually entitled 'Casablanca'. Clarityfiend 17:36, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Link it as :


 * Hope that helps. --ais523 17:41, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Much better. Thanks. Clarityfiend 17:46, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Candidate for deletion
How do I nominate something for deletion? Georgiana Darcy is a rather long article on a minor character in Pride and Prejudice. Clarityfiend 17:43, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Write I think this article should be deleted, because of such-and-such. Lorem ipsum and so on. at the top of the article. If this is left alone for five days, an admin will come around and delete the article. If, however, someone removes the notice, do not replace it. Instead, write at the top, and follow the AfD instructions. The AfD tag is replaceable. J I P  | Talk 17:55, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, try prod first (as described above), and then if that doesn't work, the Articles for Deletion process (again as described above). There are instructions for AfD at Template:AfD in 3 steps. --ais523 17:57, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It doesn't look too large to me and I don't recommend deleting an article about a character in an important literary work even if it is a minor character. Try shortening and cleaning it up first. It doesn't appear to have anything wrong with it that requires deletion. See Deletion policy. - Mgm|(talk) 19:13, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * According to Notability (fiction), minor characters don't merit separate articles. And she is a minor minor character, not even a major minor one. Frankly, the article in question is probably longer than the sum of all mentions of her in the novel itself. Clarityfiend 22:52, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

How to find an episode guide?
When I came here the first time I found a very detailed summary of all the Transformers Armada Episodes that could be editted. Now no matter what I do I can not find it anywhere. I know it exists so could someone please tell me where it is. LegendRider 18:57, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I looked at Transformers: Armada, and I'm guessing the episode guide was deemed too esoteric to stay on Wikipedia, so only a summary now remains. Perhaps you can ask on the article's discussion page? Xiner (talk, email) 19:12, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll try that.

How do I do this?
The Christian Potenza article in Esperanto has "English" on the left-hand bar, so you can view it in English. However, the English article has no link to the Esperanto version in the sidebar. How do I put this in?
 * See Interwiki links. In short: add ??:NAME to the bottom of the article where ?? is the code for the language link you want to add and NAME is the name of the foreign article. - Mgm|(talk) 19:23, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

>>OP here. Can other people please translate this article into more languages as well?

How to add a category to a page?
I want to add the page titled "Steve Rifkind" to a catagorie titled "American Music Industry Executives." I am very confused as to how this works so some direction would be great. Thanks.
 * Add at the bottom of the article you want to add to the category. - Mgm|(talk) 19:23, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) You would simply add (note lack of capitalization) to the bottom of that page. --Tkynerd 19:26, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry about that. Yes, make sure you use exactly the same capitalization as is used in the actual cat. name. - Mgm|(talk) 20:40, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, it should be listed as .  User:Zoe|(talk) 21:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The last suggestion refers to how you influence the entry's position in the category. It is very useful whenever the first letter of the article's name is not representative, or when it begins with a number (eg. a year) Adrian M. H. 21:41, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Help
How do I cite the Wikipedia Encyclopedia in MLA form? As well as in a report? Erikadennis
 * I'd think that it's the same as citing any other website, per WP:CITE. Personally, I'd want to find the source for any statement made on Wikipedia and use that instead. Xiner (talk, email) 20:04, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep, just follow the MLA style guide for websites. As Xiner said, though, Wikipedia is not a good source for citation. You're better off following the references in the article and citing those instead. -- Kesh 20:08, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * On the toolbox on the left side of the page there is a button that says "Cite this article". If you click it, it will give you preformated cites for the page you are on, in various formats. MLA is the second type of cite on the list (It says "MLA style" above it). Prodego  talk  20:09, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Missing Image and Searching Images In General
There was an image, shugart.jpg, that was linked off the Alan Shugart page but is now missing, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alan_Shugart&oldid=98378653

I have tried many unsuccessful searches in an attempt to recover it or at least to find out who deleted it and why?

So my first question is who deleted it, why, and can it be restored?

More generally, what is the appropriate process, if any (a pointer to a FAQ is sufficient). FWIW, I tried following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Uploading_images#Find_previously_uploaded_images but it gets you the first page of 50 uploaded images out of a very large number and the list does not appear to be searchable. As a test i searched for an image i uploaded and was unable to find it. See if you can (hint: title includes words collage and floppy). Tom94022 20:07, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It doesn't look like an image ever got uploaded to that title, although a copyright tag was added to the Image page. User:Zoe|(talk) 21:26, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Who owns the copyright of an image
Hello there I’m new here and I want to upload some pictures. I’m not quite sure how to handle copyright issues. I know there is an article with rules about that but how does these apply on old objects. Take for example this picture. http://www.geocities.com/garyweb65/ashurbanipal.jpg It’s on a free geocities domain. Should I ask for permission to use it? But in that case, who is the owner of this picture? Is it the holder of the domain? Is it the person who made a photograph of this object? Or is it the museum where this object currently is? All possibilities provide problems because the domain holder doesn’t own the object, it’s impossible to find out who made the photograph, and should a museum be asked for permission tot use a picture that roams free over the net? Please enlighten me. Djaser 21:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Just because an image is on a free geocities page doesn't mean that the person who put it there has the copyright to it. However, since it's apparently an image from ancient times, there would be no copyright, unless it's a photo from a museum page which the person appropriated without proper copyright description.  User:Zoe|(talk) 21:28, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think a good case could be made that the copyright belongs to the photographer, even though it's a picture of something old, though legal opinions differ. Being from a museum page or someone's holiday snapshot certainly makes no differnce to copyright. If you want to use the picture, you should ask them the place you found it to confirm that they are the photographer, and that they release the picture into a suitable license for all uses, including commercial use (there is a particular formality that has to be followed here). If they are not the photographer, ask where they found it originally, and continue the quest. Notinasnaid 09:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation
I often search for explanations of new words that I come across, but how do I find out how to pronounce them?
 * Any good dictionary, either in print or online, gives a phonetic pronunciation guide for each entry. Please direct any future general questions to the Reference Desk. The Help Desk is here for questions specific to the use of Wikipedia. Adrian M. H. 22:08, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

accessing the videos
how do you find the listing of videos and how do you access them


 * Are you looking for Youtube? There are no videos on Wikipedia. Arjun 22:06, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The Commons has some cool animations. Xiner (talk, email) 22:11, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

History of Samoa Article
I don't have an acct here, i only visit to read articles. I noticed someone vandalized the article History of Samoa. some who is involved may want to fix this...the vandal inserted misinformation about extraterrestrials using samoa as a location for dance parties 500 years ago.

i think what you folks do is incredible and maybe one day i'll get more involved. until then, regards..

michael sanchez phoenix, AZ -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.135.0.6 (talk • contribs) 22:34, January 18, 2007


 * Thanks for pointing this out - User:Prodego fixed this vandalism. &mdash; QuantumEleven 14:17, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Deletion
how do you find a deletion ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Webrats (talk • contribs) 23:23, January 18, 2007
 * Could you be more specific? —Centrx→talk &bull; 23:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * If you're looking for a log of deletions you can try Special:Log and search for the article in question. If you're looking for a AFD discussion it's typically Articles for deletion/NAME OF ARTICLE DISCUSSED. —Mitaphane talk 03:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)