Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2007 July 22

= July 22 =

Improving my user page
Excuse me, I want to know how to zest up my user page, and put pictures of it and everything. Uglyguy2006


 * I reccomend taking a look at WP:UPH, WP:USERPAGE, and also User Page Design Center. Hope that helps. -- Tλε Rαnδom Eδιτor  ( ταlκ )  00:15, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

How do I get collaborators?
I just started a new page and wondered how do I let people know in the community so I can ask for collaboration.

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Efigment (talk • contribs)


 * You can try to see if there is an existing Wikiproject that would cover the subject of your article. Usually adding the Wikiproject's talk page banner to the talk page of the article is enough to attract their attention, but you can leave a message on the project's talk page as well. Just don't forget to sign your posts with four tildes ( ~ ). Hersfold (talk/work) 01:54, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You can also search for articles on topics related to the article you started, which looks like Christiana Morgan (such as, for example, the articles you linked to from the article you started - but I see that Christiana Morgan doesn't have nearly enough links yet). Look at the histories of those related articles. Some of the people who edited those articles might be interested in editing the article you started. You can leave notes for them on their talk pages, but be sure to sign your comments on talk pages. It also doesn't hurt to directly ask for help on the Help desk, for example, you could ask: will someone please help edit Christiana Morgan? Lots of people read the Help desk, judging from the number of people who reply to questions, and some of them could help clean up poor Christiana. --Teratornis 03:10, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I need help about creating an account and editing
Hi my name is Joe Terracina, a long time reader first time writer. I enjoy reading wikipedia, in fact it is one of my favorite sites. Anyway, my questions are what are the advantages of creating an account and how do I go about either creating an article or adding information to an article. If someone can help with this that would be great! Help to this writer would be great.

Sincerely

Joe


 * On the advantages of creating an account, read Why create an account?. On creating an article, read Your first article. Hope this helps! Sr13 00:35, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * As for adding information to an article, the basic procedure is by clicking on the "edit this page" tab on the top. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 19:12, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Creating an account will allow you to edit some controversial protected articles and collaborate better with other Wikipedians. It will also allow you to get more recognition for your work.--Qmwne235 23:26, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Need redirect deleted
Hi, could someone please delete the redirect Christina Lake, British Columbia that currently goes to Christina Lake (British Columbia). The first title is needed free for a town article (forthcoming) and the second is a lake. Re: the discussion here. Thanks. Ci ndy Bo talk  00:37, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * You can just edit the redirect; there's no reason for a delete. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 00:42, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I didn't know that. I thought it was one of those admin only things. Ci ndy Bo talk  00:49, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Moving an existing article to a redirect requires an administrator in some cases, and then it's important to not avoid the administrator by copying the text of the existing article instead of moving. But if you create an article of new content then just edit the redirecting page. You can e.g. get to it by first clicking Christina Lake, British Columbia which currently takes you to Christina Lake (British Columbia), and there you can click the link in "Redirected from Christina Lake, British Columbia" at the top. PrimeHunter 01:14, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks. Ci ndy Bo talk  01:44, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Substitute under circumstances
How can you get something to substitute under circumstances, like when you log on and off. Because I have a template which shows my status and I want it to change to a different template when I log off. The templates are and. Please tell me how I can substitute the online status template with the Away status template when I log off if possible. If not possible, please tell me. ☺ E fansayT/C☺ 01:08, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it needs to be done manually, but I'm not sure. I used to have one like that, but it didn't work...try asking, see if he knows.  Giggy  UCP 03:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * its not that hard, but substing isnt a good option. I use User:Betacommand/Status to display my current status. But that status is set using where current status is defined in User:Betacommand/StatusDiv (PS I use User:George money's status changing bot)∆ 03:15, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Improvements
Can someone have a look at my page and let me know what I can do to improve it!

Thanx

Richard —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Richardbetts (talk • contribs).

Which page is that?

The Rhymesmith 04:59, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I am guessing, note guessing, that he is referring to Chetan Ramlu. If so Richard, it seems to have the basic formatting and word usage of a good Wikipedia article. However, you could do additional research using verified sources to determine more facts about him and his career. Once you have enough information on both I'd suggest using headers to separate early life and professional career, or something similar. Keep up the good work! In addition, I'd like to add that for a new user you are doing very well, especially with your use of the musician info box.PeteShanosky 15:15, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Or you can create a peer review for your article and get comments from folks. @pple 09:57, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Edits gone
I thought I had edited a page.. it had shown up edited, but then when i looked back at it a few days later, my edits were gone, and there seems to be no record of what i wrote.. where did it go??? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kitawhit (talk • contribs).


 * If you refer to Elimination communication then see its history: . PrimeHunter 10:10, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

youngest indian woman climber of mount everest
Mahidayath 13:49, 22 July 2007 (UTC)who is the youngest woman climber of mount everest from india?
 * Have you tried the Miscellaneous section of Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in answering knowledge questions there; this help desk is only for questions about using Wikipedia. For your convenience, here's the link to post a question there: click here. I hope this helps.--Fuhghettaboutit 13:55, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Also try: youngest Indian woman climber mount everest. The answer may be Dicky Dolma of Himachal Pradesh, listed as the youngest woman to climb Mount Everest at age 19 in 1993. --Teratornis 16:37, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

map location of gorakhpur city
i want to see map of gorakhpur city. pls help me to see this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.94.115.142 (talk • contribs).
 * Here is a map, found through this search. Note that this help desk is only for questions about using Wikipedia. For future knowledge questions, such as this, please ask at an appropriate section of the section Reference desk where they specialize in answering knowledge questions. I hope this helps.--Fuhghettaboutit 14:05, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

How to put a # sign in a page title
I'm trying to create a page with a # sign in the title but for some reason it doesn't work very well, I keep getting everything after the # sign chopped off. Is there something else I could do, or should i just replace it with "No." or something? pw 15:15, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * To add a little more context, this is for a bot, when it escapes the URL it ends up with %23, but when wikipedia returns the page, it ignores that and everything after as the page title. should I encode it some other way? thanks, pw 15:15, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * In the title, the # is reserved to designate everything following it as a page section. So, the format is "Page Name#Section of the Page". You could use url encoding to create a # in the URL, but I doubt it would translate to a # in the page title. So, your best option is to use something other than #. Of note, most wikis will not allow the ampersand &amp; either. -- Kainaw (what?) 15:17, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * See: Naming conventions (technical restrictions), especially the section: Characters totally forbidden in page titles. --Teratornis 16:23, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It might, just might, be possible to create a workaround such as was done for titles that are supposed to start with a lowercase, which was implemented with lowercase. You could ask about this at the Village pump (technical). However, *if possible*, I doubt this would get any support unless you could show that there is some real utility in the ability, relevant to multiple situations.--Fuhghettaboutit 18:03, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

about accounts
i want to know about basics account where should i go for this please help me —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.192.224.172 (talk • contribs).


 * It's not clear what you're asking - I'm guessing you're asking about user accounts. I can think of two pages that might help you:  Why create an account? and Username policy.  --Hugh Charles Parker (talk - contribs) 16:23, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Everything you could need to know about user accounts and usernames is under: User:John Broughton/Editor's Index to Wikipedia. --Teratornis 17:50, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

hot to enter a topic into a list on one page, and have it auto update different pages
Hi.

I am creating a page of ideas for research projects for a set of professors. Each project is usually associated with more than one class. For example, the topic Digital Broadband Migration would be good for 4 classes denoted by [C, J, TH, SM]. So there would be 4 separate pages with a list for each separate class.

Question then: How can I make it so a professor only enters the topic once, onto one list, and all the rest of the lists/pages are populated with that same topic automatically?

Thanks! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.8.147.23 (talk • contribs).


 * If you're creating a page on wikipedia, then I think you need to look at Wikipedia's notability guidelines. If you're not, then this isn't the place to ask: this is the Wikipedia help desk, for question about how to use Wikipedia - you'd be better off at the computing reference desk.  If you do ask a question there, you'll need to say what system you're using to make those pages - if you don't know what system to use, make it clear in your question that that's what you're asking.  You also need to sign your question, by putting ~ after it.  --Hugh Charles Parker (talk - contribs) 16:58, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The question contains vague wording, making it difficult to understand. You start off by mentioning "a page of ideas," but then there are "separate pages," and then the notion of "lists" comes up, but you don't specify lists of what (lists of ideas for research projects?). The phrase "a professor only enters the topic once" is ambiguous: does this mean you enter the professor's name (on some page), or does the actual professor do something with the topic? And as the above reply states, we can't get any traction at all without knowing what system you are using or intend to use for this editing task. "Research project ideas" will almost certainly violate Wikipedia's No original research policy, so it sounds as if using Wikipedia is right out, and you should use another wiki (for example, a wiki hosted by your University). If you are running your own MediaWiki wiki, then you could edit a set of templates to store the chunks of information which should each appear on more than one page. You could also create categories to group pages by class and professor. Or you could place each research project idea onto its own separate article (never mind the templates), and just use categories to group the research project idea pages by class and professor (and topic, or any other way you want to group the idea pages). The category pages would then serve as the lists of research project ideas, and you would not have to manually create list pages yourself. MediaWiki provides several ways to group pages, and it's fairly easy to change your grouping scheme as you go. If you aren't running your own wiki yet (on a Web server), you can easily set up your own personal wiki to experiment with on your personal computer; see for example: mw:Manual:Wiki on a stick. --Teratornis 17:46, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

PLEASE HELP! Template problems!
I'm trying my template seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sparky2002b/Test

However, after I close the template tag, anything I write is in the table, below "GS Score". How do I fix this?
 * You had two tables in the page source, so you needed to have two of |}. Anyway, I've [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|15px]] Fixed it. :-) —  «  A NIMUM   »  17:53, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, that helps! However, one more thing: How can I set a field to accept a variable number of parameters? Example, under platform, accept either "Xbox" or "Xbox, Playstation"?


 * Sure, just add &#123;&#123;{Xbox|}}} to the appropriate line where you want it. :-) —  «  A NIMUM   »  18:32, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't work - try it in the template. -Sparky 18:35, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The method you have at the moment looks fine; why is it failing? (Magnus animum's solution was to display either of two parameters, rather than the given value for one parameter, which is why it wasn't working.) --ais523 08:37, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia as Home page
I do not want Wikipidia as my home page. However, every time I delete the seeting it returns the next time I log on. Can you advise please. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.159.119.242 (talk • contribs).


 * That isn't a Wikipedia problem. Check your security software, sometimes they lock the IE home page to prevent viruses/spyware from changing it to a naughty site. 71.126.156.74


 * If that doesn't help you, then the computing reference desk might be able to help. --Hugh Charles Parker (talk - contribs) 22:52, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

External Link
Hi! Could you kindly tell me, how to make an external link?--Tellervo 19:23, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Linking to existing Wikipedia pages is done by placing doubled brackets around the name of the page. Thus, Wikipedia produces Wikipedia. A useful expansion of this is done by separating what you want linked, from what you want displayed, with a pipe character ("|"), to create a "piped link". Thus: encyclopedia produces encyclopedia, with the displayed text linking to the article, Wikipedia. You can link to internal sections of pages thusly: Wikipedia#name of internal section of that article. By contrast, for external links: http://www.example.org produces http://www.example.org; produces ; and example produces example. For more information, see Help:Link and please consider taking a tour through the Tutorial. Hope this has helped.--Fuhghettaboutit 19:32, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

for c programing
what will happen if we use capital letter in c programing?


 * This sort of question is better asked over at the Reference desk. The help desk is for questions about wikipedia. -- Tλε Rαnδom Eδιτor  ( ταlκ )  21:38, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * To put it exactly, Reference desk/Computing community always ready to welcome you :). @pple 09:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Why am I not able to edit?
Today is the first time I have ever tried to go onto Wikipedia yet there is a whole string of faintly abusive comments saying I have defaced the site etc etc etc.

How can this have happened and how to I get rid of these comments against my IP that are nothing to do with me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bruce37 (talk • contribs)


 * Since you are asking this question here, you are evidently able to edit. The comments you saw might have been on the talk page associated with your IP address. Before creating the account "Bruce37", you would see these messages, which were intended for whoever (also) used your IP address to edit Wikipedia. They need not concern you now that you have a user account. Sandstein 19:55, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * You probably have a dynamic IP address. Don't delete the messages posted to your IP address. The editor(s) who edited with that address without logging in may do further bad edits, and the messages can be helpful to other editors. PrimeHunter 22:34, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

kite hawk
What does a kite hawk look like.


 * Well, that would best be answered by looking at the kite hawk article. This help desk cannot help you do your homework. (Unless you are doing a report on Wikipedia :-) ) -- tennis man  20:55, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Try: Kite (bird). --Teratornis 21:01, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Redirect added. Redirects are cheap.  —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 21:23, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Technical Questions

 * 1) I've noticed that Main Page does not display the title of the article, what was done to prevent it from being displayed, also with that, how do you change it where the tab says main page and not article?
 * 2) Where do you change in the config or whereever to add help text that you see at the top of talk edit pages, such as:

"This is a talk page. Please respect the talk page guidelines, and remember to sign your posts using four tildes ( ~ )."

Thanks. -- 21:21, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know the Main Page design, but User:Rebroad may be of interest to you. Click edit there to see how the displayed title was changed on that page. The quoted message is from MediaWiki:Talkpagetext and can be discussed at MediaWiki talk:Talkpagetext. PrimeHunter 22:16, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hiding the Main Page title is done with sitewide CSS; this wouldn't work on a userpage. You could see User:One/Title for the effective method to do this; it's a user template that shouldn't be used in articles, but is allowable on userpages. Lowercasing the first letter of your username can instead be done with lowercase, which is more reliable (the userspace template has been known to cause your userpage to look incorrect to unregistered users). --ais523 08:34, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * What changes to the CSS need to be made to hide the title, I tried the code on another wiki and it's not working. Does something in the CSS need to be altered/enabled for it to work? -- 03:10, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Strange question
I've been editing Wikipedia for almost a year and I have always wondered the following question: "Are there (or was there) a 'party' in the Wikipedia community?" By party, I mean the same concept as a political party (several editors share a specific point of view on one or more issues and work together to get things done, and support each other in elections, etc.). I know there is the "deletionist" ideology that several Wikipedians seem to share, but was there or is there such a thing as the "deletionist party" or any similar concepts? If not, is there any Wikipedia guideline or policy that forbids it or restricts it?

I am sorry if I posted this in the wrong page, but I didn't think the reference desk was appropriate for a question about Wikipedia.

Thanks in advance for answering!

ZOUAVMAN LE ZOUAVE 21:25, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * There a certainly certain wikipedian ideologies, but no there are not any "parties." See WP:DEMOCRACY which though does not say parties are not allowed does talk about democracy. -- Tλε Rαnδom Eδιτor  ( ταlκ )  21:42, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick answer! ^^

ZOUAVMAN LE ZOUAVE 21:46, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Conflicting Wikipedia philosophies and m:Category:Wikipedian associations may be of interest. PrimeHunter 21:47, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! Now here comes another question: Can anyone create a Wikipedian association on meta? ZOUAVMAN LE ZOUAVE 21:56, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know whether there are any guidelines. Category:Wikipedians by Wikipedia philosophy is another way to show your philosophy. PrimeHunter 22:27, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Copper-64 References
I added the copper-64 article today and the appropriate (as far as I know) citations, but there is still a header that says "This article does not cite any references or sources".

How do I fix this problem? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Breakyunit (talk • contribs).


 * The unreferenced tag was added by the line of wikitext that was at the top of the article.  Since you've added so many references I went ahead and removed the tag. --JayHenry 22:12, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The tag was added to the original version by an editor in . PrimeHunter 22:21, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia policies regarding articles about laws
Does Wikipedia have any policies regarding articles about laws? I have created one such article about a Brazilian law proposal, but I intend to create articles about laws, and I'd like to know whether there are guidelines, templates and such things about that. Also, I'd like to learn how to determine the notability of a law. A.Z. 22:44, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * While I'm not sure about specific templates, unless you might violate the law in question, you need not worry much about special guidelines about them aside from the usual ones. In terms of notability, use common sense, and the generalized notability guideline - I'm pretty sure we don't have a specialized guideline for law notability. There's also a law Wikiproject: WP:LAW. They probably are more knowledgable about the subtleties of writing about law, so I suggest you ask further questions there and join the WikiProject. Nihiltres ( t .l ) 23:16, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * See also Manual of Style (legal). PrimeHunter 23:33, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I can't find my post
Hello, I just recently posted a term that I created and has now been trademarked "Expectation Hangover." I (thought) I followed all the directions, but my post is not up. I also see when i log into my file that it has been edited. Can you please clarify: 1. How I get it posted so when one goes to wikipedia.com and types in "expectation hangover" the page comes up. 2. How someone was able to edit it if it is not "live"

Thank you ChristineHassler 23:22, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi there, looking at your logs it appears that you created the article on a test page (Introduction) this page is cleared of all test edits every so often and so your article disappears, To create and article please see. Help:Starting a new page. You might also want to take a look at Your first article and How to write a great article.


 * See also Conflict of interest, Notability, Neologism. An article may be deleted. PrimeHunter 23:40, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Hatnote disambiguation usage for names with middle initials
Hi, I've been doing a bit of disambiguation work at Suggestions for name disambiguation recently. I have been leaving hatnotes for disambiguation in every page suggested. Now I know that per the "Disambiguating article names that are not ambiguous" section in Hatnotes, not every page should get this kind of hatnote.

In your opinion, would you recommend adding hatnotes to biography articles that are named with the middle initial included (those with the format "First M. Last")? From the articles that I edited recently, the hatnote in Charles C. Stevenson was removed immediately after I added it, and Charles W. Nash has had a couple of edits without having the hatnote removed. Lisatwo 23:36, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm, in retrospect, my question was worded incorrectly. I was wondering if there was any consensus that had occurred in the past regarding this issue.  The "in your opinion" phrase shouldn't have been included.  Also, is it better to post this question at Village pump (policy) instead? Lisatwo 18:57, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Want to edit Jesus
I want to edit the page on Jesus but the page appears to have been blocked from editing. I can understand why this might be, but I think the etymology section contains a factual error, or at least should present more than one theory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bishf (talk • contribs)
 * I say unto thee, this page is only semi-protected, as thou wouldst know by hovering thy mouse over the lock-shaped image; from the time when thou hast registered thine account, it shall come to pass in another five days that thou shalt gain the power to edit this article. When thou dost see the "edit this page" link appearing before thine eyes, thou shalt know the spirit of MediaWiki hath visited a privilege increase upon thee. To whom much is given, much is required. --Teratornis 06:03, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

It's semi protected against unregistered and newly registered users. Any suggestions you have to improve the article can be brought up on the article talk page. Someone will make the changes for you, providing they are sound recommendations. Lara Love  06:04, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

How can I create a FACT protected page?
Hello,

I created a page.. it is the page for actor/producer Johnny Sanchez. I just visited that paged today and it says.on the top of the page, that the information I provided has yet to be proved or verified. I have legitimate sources for the information that I posted and which also helped me create this page.

One of the sources is the actual web page for Johnny Sanchez. That web page is www.JohnnySanchez.com

The other source I used was Mr. Sanchez's web page on the Internet Movie Database.. that webpage is http://imdb.com/name/nm0760977/

And third other source I used was the web page for a stand-up comedian... who has a similar name to Johnny Sanchez... that stand up comedian's name is Johnny A. Sanchez. The middle initial differentiates both artists .. and that web page is also from the Internet Movie Database. http://imdb.com/name/nm1146844/

Can you, kindly, help me make the page/article that I created for Johnny Sanchez a FACT page and also one where the information I created, based on all these legitimate sources I mentioned, is one where the information I provide is information that can not be deleted. You will find that this page is very interesting and filled with fact checked information. I look forward to contributing more to this page that I created since I am a big fan of Johnny Sanchez and the films he has produced.

Thank you for your help.

NeoJediX —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anythingtobefree (talk • contribs)


 * You need to cite your sources in the article itself. See Citing sources. --Silver Edge 00:24, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The entire point of Wikipedia is to allow everyone to edit the articles. Thus, no, you cannot request the article be locked to your version. You do not own the article. Also, you should read WP:V and WP:RS. A person's own website is not a reliable source for citing information on Wikipedia, nor is IMDB since they do not verify the information posted there is accurate. -- Kesh 01:55, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Collapsible navboxes
Hey there, I just noticed collapsible navboxes (like this one). I've been trying to implement for a while something similar on another wiki. Though, after searching for a while without luck, I'm curious which css/js file handles this specifically (class="navbox collapsible autocollapse"). Any help greatly appreciated - thanks! Adys 00:41, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * See NavFrame (and MediaWiki:Common.css and Catalogue of CSS classes). Copying stuff from Wikipedia to other MediaWiki wikis is fun. Also check your MediaWiki version at Special:Version on your wiki, because I think the collapsible navbox stuff needs a recent version of MediaWiki to work. You can also search the Help desk archive for "collapsible", because questions about this have come up before. --Teratornis 05:48, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Indecipherable question
[EMAIL REMOVED] Help-me I have the copy color to the dial this old tube rádio PYE type 49y19 for restauration. I am brasileiro, mi name is Cesar Augusto De Cesaro.

thanks.

Userboxes
How Do You Put That Stuff on your user page that says 'this user is...' and so forth. Is there a list of them? If there is, can some one point them out to me? ありがとうございます.
 * These are called userboxes. Check out Category:User templates --Adys 00:47, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * And see WP:USERBOX. --Teratornis 05:48, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

i need the recipe for uncle fester's recippe for methenph
steve preisler's recipe for meth.

The Help Desk does not provide information on recipes for illegal drugs. Sorry.

The Rhymesmith 03:09, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Tremore
I have been suffering from tremore and need help of a doctor. Would appreciated if I can contact a doctor in this regards on line.

Thanks/Zamil


 * Wikipedia does not provide medical advice. Sorry.


 * The Rhymesmith 03:08, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * See: Medical disclaimer. --Teratornis 05:38, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

"See also" section...guidelines or policy
Are there any guidelines, recommendations or policies concerning the "See Also" sections that are in many articles? I have not been able to find any guidelines and would like to know what type of content is most appropriate. Thanks. Turtlescrubber 03:34, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * After a few minutes of ctrl+f'ing the manual of style, all I've found is Manual of Style (headings), which briefly mentions that see also sections are an exception from the normal grammar style for section headings, and Guide to layout, which discusses them in a slight amount of detail. However, see also sections are really more of a common sense thing, and they aren't particularly legislated to my knowledge.
 * If you want my personal experience with them, see also sections hold links to other articles that are either related to the subject but you couldn't find a way to link to them in the body, or are highly related so giving them a more prominent link at the end of the page makes sense. (They are often replaced by subject navigation templates in the latter case.) --tjstrf talk 03:43, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Assistance with "deletion" of "XYplorer" from a new user here...
I'm a real newbie here and need some unbiased assistance in how to proceed...the following italicized text is a summary of the limited feedback I received from the admin(?) who appears to have performed the delete, and who initially appears to be inflexible in his opinion of the entry page.

My concern is that we as users of XY were affected by someone or persons who may not have enough knowledge of the product to determine its worth (or locate any sources that may not be at top of Google search hits), especially as compared to other similar products that still have entries here, but which are more obscure and have less users.

Or we may have possibly been the target of an attack from fans/users of another competing product, but it's quite hard to tell if that is the case or not. As stated below, I'm sure that the program author (and us power users) would be satified with any changes needed to make the entry less commercial, but no less than any competing products. Here's the basic text from that session:

''As a loyal XY user, I was surprised and disappointed to discover that we as power users of XY, who are easily contactable via web, were apparently not given any chance to point out those sources that may have helped keep the entry here, or to adjust the entry to better fit with any criteria/requirements needed, which we would have gladly done. We dislike spam/commercial type entries as much as anyone, and would be happy to work with whomever to make an entry that would be acceptable to WP and to us XY'ers.''

''I do not recognize the ID of the person who made the majority of XY edits, but as they were correct and accurate, we users of XY saw no need to edit it further. Did that help lead to its removal? I would hope not.

''Is there something we as XY users can do to help either restore or create a new XY page that meets the criteria needed? Because it IS a valuable piece of software and I would be unable to complete my daily tasks without it.''

''Thanks! (J Hallgren) (No ID here yet, or I've misplaced it...sorry) 151.203.127.31 21:45, 22 July 2007 (UTC)''

''I deleted it via WP:AFD not CSD, nothing that can be done, other than WP:DRV which will be Deletion endorse the likely senerio. Jaranda wat's sup 21:47, 22 July 2007 (UTC)''

''Ok...so how do y'all thus handle all the other similar software products (file managers) that have gotten much less press or coverage than XY? As there are a number of products listed in WP that I believe are definitely more obscure than XY is. 151.203.127.31 22:42, 22 July 2007 (UTC)''

I'll be looking here for some guidance, ok? Thank you!

Also, all references to XYplorer have been removed from the comparison tables for File managers. Does XY need to have its own page before it can be in those tables? Just having the product listed there would be a benefit to WP users, IMO.


 * As the deleting admin commented, if you want it restored, you'll need to file for deletion review per WP:DRV, but he feels the outcome of the review will be an endorsement of the deletion. Note that it was deleted per a filed case, (ie the deletion was reviewed and discussed), so if you look at WP:AFD and search for the discussion in which the decision was made more light will be shed on the matter. Have a nice day, The Rhymesmith 04:35, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I've read the Articles_for_deletion/XYplorer and it seems that this was somewhat due to edits being done by one person, which may be true, but if what that person wrote is accurate and correct, why would anyone else need to change it? Does that make it vunerable to being deleted?

Also, the discussion there makes no mention of the national web newsletter coverage that XY has received, which while minimal, does show that it has a following in the media. We (as power users of XY) were totally unaware of this discussion and thus had NO chance to provide additional facts or input. We would like the chance to provide this to those who participated in the discussion. How can this be best done?

For example: The two best known sources that have commented on XY are Gizmo Richards who has the well respected 'Tech Support Alert' newsletter which mentions XY in the following category, Best 46 Free Utilities and Fred Langa who wrote the well known LangaList and who took my submission regarding XY and published it, but then making some negative comments that were based on incorrect assumptions by him. Langa List jan 2006

XY is one of those pieces of software that isn't created by a big company with a big advertising budget or staff, but one author working with a group of dedicated power users like myself to solve problems that other more expensive software doesn't. 151.203.127.31 07:43, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * That only one editor created and edited the article, and that it was his only contribution, indicated that the editor in question was advocating the software in question (ie someone who designed the software, etc.). The actual deletion occurred because the software itself was not shown to be notable enough on Wikipedia. Information in the article was also not sourced. You can recreate it if you can prove why it is notable and source the information. You may also have an admin undelete it if you can persuade one that you can do the above. The Rhymesmith 07:48, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, if you are connected to the software, do note WP:COI before any action. The Rhymesmith 07:49, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I DO thank you for your feedback! My connection to the software is strictly voluntary, as I was a new user who posted a bug report to forum for product and was so impressed with author's actions, that I have become the second most frequent poster to the support forum in last 18 months, but I have NO financial connection whatsoever to author. Would that require a COI?

Also, the author of the WP article is someone not recognized by that name on the support forum, as far as I know, so he is unknown to me. Other XY users would have gladly de-commercialized as best we could the article had we known that was a problem, but we are not WP users, it seems. We would likely be very happy with an entry similar to what exists for xplorer2. 151.203.127.31 08:00, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Pretty much, yes, you are involved in it, so it would be a COI for you to create an article on it. As has been pointed out, it was deleted for not meeting our notability requirements, not because of the way it was written-- and do keep in mind that you cannot WP:OWN an article. Simply put, there's just not enough of a reason to talk about your program, so it was removed. xplorer2 looks sketchy too, but remember, even if it passed an AfD, WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. -- L augh! 08:30, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok, so if it would be a COI for me, than would it also be a COI for any user of the product to create it? That might be a Catch-22 situation, since one would most likely HAVE to be a user of it to make an article that is correct, and put the proper entries in that chart that describes various file managers (Comparison_of_file_managers.

I realize that I cannot own an article and do not wish to. Also, using xplorer2 as an example: It has received much more press, yet on the download site Softpedia, XY currently shows 2674 downloads compared to x2 at 4724, so for an "unknown" product, it seems to be quite popular.

It is that article above which is, in effect, a formal review of these various products that is, IMO, incomplete without XY as an option, since there are other products currently there which are SO much more obscure than XY and less well known. So omitting XY makes that chart less valuable to readers of that article, and if XY was documented there, having a stub article that provides the minimal information about XY, would seem appropriate.

To clarify a point: Is it because XY has not received attention/mention from major media, such as PC World, or similar, that really thus causes it to be non-notable? If so, then I would suggest a fair number of products would fail to meet the same criteria. 151.203.127.31 13:59, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Once again, please read WP:N and WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS -- L augh! 18:27, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I had read those sections, but as a WP noob, I could use a interpretation as it specifically applies to the questions/situations as I've described from a WP guru (or similar). And also, is there a specific number of times that XY would need to be reviewed or mentioned in sources, and must they be actual print or is web published content counted as less worthy? The notability criteria description as I read it doesn't give these answers in detail needed. 151.203.127.31 00:13, 24 July 2007 (UTC)