Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2007 March 15

= March 15 =

editprotected
I want to add a minor discussion topic on an article's TALK page, but the page is protected, and it says at the top that the ability to edit the TALK page by newly registered users is disabled. Then it says to request unprotection, go here -> which takes me to a page which says if you want to make a minor change (which is what I want), simply add the editprotected template on the discussion page followed by a description...blah blah.

How am I supposed to add this template request when any editing of the TALK page is disabled?Fendersmasher 00:40, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Talk pages are only rarely protected, usually on articles where there is nothing to discuss (Talk:Brian Peppers, for example). What page are you talking about. Prodego  talk  01:50, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Talk pages that are being vandalized heavily (current events, sometimes) get semi-protected from time to time. It's uncommon but I've seen it many times. Any user can go to WP:RFPP to request unprotection of a page. — coe l acan — 09:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

when updated?
When have you updated this website last?
 * Right now. Wikipedia is updated constantly, although certain articles might not be updated for several months. We need your help to keep it updated, especially if you find out-of-date information. Please see Introduction to get started. — coe l acan — 09:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * And you do get the occasional cache delay which can be solved by purging the page.  x42bn6  Talk 16:41, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Template problem?
There is a template problem or something showing up on the Jonathan Trumbull, Jr. page. Can someone who knows more about templates than I do please check it out?--Vbd (talk) 05:24, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Which template?-- SU IT  양복 05:28, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Weird. Some portion of a template message showed up at the top of the page when I visited it earlier, but it seems to be gone now.  Not sure what happened.  Thanks, though.--Vbd (talk) 05:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

artificial intelligence
i need some information for artificial intelligence it should be about 4 pages in A4 Size.
 * Try reading artificial intelligence, and follow the links in that article until you have enough material for your essay. Notinasnaid 08:30, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * "it should be about 4 pages in A4 Size" sounds a lot like you plan to turn any provided material in for an assignment. Reading our article and Googling some will provide you with a lot of information, but you need to write those 4 pages yourself. - Mgm|(talk) 09:16, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Or receive an F for the assignment and risk being expelled from school. And is Jimbo still hiring those Colombian death squads? No? Well expulsion is almost as bad. — coe l acan — 09:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect screen shot on an essay
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Consultants_on_Religious_Tolerance

This is a minor problem.

The article contains a screen shot of what is alleged to be our home page. But it is of our "about us" essay.

The screen shot is of http://religioustolerance.org/aboutus.htm

It should be of http://religioustolerance.org

Regards Bruce Robinson Coordinator, Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance &lt;Removed personal information&gt;
 * I've altered the definition to reflect this. Thanks. --Cherry blossom tree 12:13, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

PROBLEM WITH EDITING AN ARTICLE
Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing you this message on behalf of Adnan Oktar. There are few sentences which need to be ommitted or changed in the article about Adnan Oktar. These sentences do not reflect the truths about Mr. Adnan Oktar and his ideas. I edited the said article many times as directed in your website, however the next day the editions are deleted, and the same article appears.

Will you please guide me and let me know what to do to change or delete these sentences and add new ones about Mr. Adnan Oktar?

Looking forward to receive a reply and a solution.

Sincerely,

Mina Berkmen85.107.248.107 12:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Your edits are likely being reverted by other editors who disagree with them (click on the "history" tab at the top of the article to see what edits have been made). You should bring your concerns to the article's talk page. Wikipedia works by building consensus, so try to explain there what changes you think should be made and why. -SpuriousQ (talk) 12:16, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Biographies of living people provides guidelines for such articles. Mr. Adnan Oktar himself can contact Wikipedia directly (for more information, click here).--Vbd (talk) 15:20, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Discussion
After closing discussion (keep) of an article, is it likely to be tagged with another template (unreferenced, cleanup, notablity, importance etc).Thanks--NAHID 12:19, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Neiether likely nor unlikely. Editors who visit pages and see these problems add these tags, it isn't connected to the discussion process, except that more people may see the page. Notinasnaid 12:30, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Discussion 2
After wikification, can anyone remove notability (or other relevant article) template from the article--NAHID 12:19, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Anyone may remove tags such as notability. However, this is a serious matter and should generally at least be mentioned on the talk page: you should explain what has been done to fix the problem. If you do not provide a good explanation, and good edit summary, visiting editors are likely to revert without doing detailed checking. Be sure you are fixing the right problem: wikifying will not solve a notability problem, for example. Notinasnaid 12:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikification has to do with making relevant links to other Wikipedia articles and has nothing to do with notability. In order to fix a question of an article's notability, one would need to add material to the article with references. The sine qua non of notability is being the subject of multiple independent reliable sources. So to answer your question in a roundabout fashion, removing a notability tag because one wikified the article would not be appropriate. However, generally anyone may remove a maintenance tag once the issue the tag flags has been dealt with.--Fuhghettaboutit 12:38, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Then without wikification can anyone remove that notability template (and other relevan template) too. Thanks in advance--NAHID 12:53, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Anyone can remove the template, but they shouldn't unless the article has been edited to demonstrate notability. --ais523 12:56, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Creating a new article
Help Me

How do you submit an article to Wikipedia

Lou Soffer
 * Hi! Please read the Very Frequently Asked Questions linked to at the very top of this page.  You should find your answer there.  Thanks. -SpuriousQ (talk) 13:06, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * If you're interested in creating an article, read the Introduction and Tutorial first if you haven't already, then read Your first article and finally Help:Creating a new page. --ais523 13:11, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Can I use the random article link on my site?
Dear Staff, I want to use the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random link in my own website. People'll click it and see a random information. That can be my site's main idea or just a portion of it. Why I ask is that, i wanna know if it is permitted or not. I want it to be legal. I couldnt see any infomation about that in help section Thanks


 * Go wild. Since your visitors will land on this website after clicking the link, why not? Xiner (talk, email) 15:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * In fact, feel free to link anything on Wikipedia on your website. Just as long as you don't ask people to vandalise the articles in question.   x42bn6  Talk 16:39, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Creating a 'home page'
Hi - I saw somewhere a while ago, a sort of Wikipedia 'home page' for a British medical school, with information relevant to their course, I can't remember which one though. I would like to create one for Liverpool, and I was wondering how I would go about it?
 * We don't create "home pages". This is an encyclopedia and the term I believe that you're looking for is "article".  Many schools have articles of their own but these are not meant as advertisements or to catalog available courses in detail.  You're welcome to create an article for another school if the school is notable.  Some links to help you do this would be WP:SCHOOLS and Help:Starting a new page.  Dismas |(talk) 14:29, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

how do i post an article in wikipedia
how do i post my own article in wikipedia??
 * Please see Help:Starting a new page. utcursch | talk 14:02, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * By the way; it will never be your own article. Adrian   M. H.  21:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Blocked user
At User talk:69.252.158.32 it is indicated that this user is blocked indefinitely. At Special:Contributions/69.252.158.32, it seems he/she is back, adding his nonsense to the same pages he edited before. (He was not blocked for adding nonsense, but for death threats towards a fellow editor.) How's that happened?--Niels Ø (noe) 14:15, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I've blocked the IP for three months, as it is most likely the same person. Btw, WP:ANI is a good place to list this sort of report. Xiner (talk, email) 15:10, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

5th Grade Project information needed on Math and Video Game Designing
My child is in the fifth grade. He has decided that he wants to become a Video Game Designer when he is older. He has to tell the class the types of math that is used in this career as well as how, where, why, when, what. He then has to do a project that is creative showing this information to the class. I have looked on the internet for two days and can't seem to find the information that he needs. His project is due in one week. Does anyone know how I can get this type of information for him?

Thank you, 70.106.175.246 15:07, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I would ask the Reference Desk Scottydude 15:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I would start with Video game, Game designer (especially Game designer), and Game development. A Google Search pops up: gamasutra.com. For the math angle, follow the links to articles about the various components that go into game development. Every aspect of a video game depends on mathematics, but in some cases the people who actually work on designing a game might not use the mathematics directly. For example, the musician who records the game soundtrack and music will undoubtedly use digital recording and effects, but he or she probably will not have detailed knowledge of all the mathematics that went into building the musical production tools, such as physical modeling synthesis. In contrast, a game programmer who works with 3D rendering may have to confront some math directly, but probably only if he or she is pushing the state of the art beyond what has been encapsulated into the game design tools. Maybe the heaviest math involvement would not be in the game design itself, but in the design of tools that game designers use (I'm not sure because I haven't investigated it). If your son is going to become a game designer, he needs to know how to search for all this stuff, but we can cut him some slack if he's only in the fifth grade. You might see if you can arrange a visit to a video game company for him, to see how the process works from the inside. Also note: by the time your son reaches adulthood, video game technology will probably be very different than it is today, so whatever he says in his school project will be ancient history by the time he could actually work in the industry. However, the overall principles should still be similar. --Teratornis 19:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Mapping, skinning, modeling, programming, designers will have to do it all. - Wo o  ty   Woot?   contribs  20:39, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi and help
Hi my name is...you know and i want my username changed because it is to long! How do i archive this?--Takaomi I. Shimoi 16:21, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Replied on user talk page. Friday (talk) 16:22, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Establishing a new wiki
I am with non-profit organization (www.groundwork.org) that is working on an eco-village project in China. We are attempting to establish an international team collaborating via the internet. It looks like wikis would be a good way to do that. I am looking for someone who would be willing to give us some advice on how to go about doing this. Is there anyone here that might want to do that or can you tell me of a forum or other place where I might ask?

Thanks for any help,

Huck
 * You might want to see Wiki Science/How to start a Wiki for a guide to setting up your own wiki (independent from Wikipedia), from Wikipedia's sister site Wikibooks. --ais523 16:37, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It sounds like Wikia.com would be more suitable. Xiner (talk, email) 16:45, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That's one of the wiki-hosting sites mentioned in the page I linked; there are others available. --ais523 16:47, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I was responding to Wikibooks. Your link is more balanced, yes. Xiner (talk, email) 16:51, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Also see Wiki on a stick. Depending on how "rustic" the eco-village project is, maybe the field workers will spend time outside of Internet access. In that case, they can carry stand-alone copies of your wiki on their laptops, to refer to documents and take notes. However, they will have to manually edit any changes they made back into the central project wiki when they get back to a place with Internet access. The wiki on a stick is just a static snapshot of the central wiki at a given time, and it goes out of date as people continue to edit the central wiki. The wiki on a stick is useful for reading well-edited pages that do not change often. To set up something like that, your project probably needs a volunteer or paid employee with system administration skills. Any competent system administrator who has, for example, set up a public Web site, can easily learn to install and administer MediaWiki. If you have no one with those skills, and no budget to hire someone, I recommend that you search WikiIndex for existing public wikis that support projects of your type. For example, see all the ecology wikis. Maybe you can find an existing wiki that your project can use. --Teratornis 19:24, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Sinbad
is not dead, heard this is only a bad rumor
 * A) Which Sinbad are you referring to? The actor (who, you are correct, is not dead) or the fictional character?  B) Was there somewhere on this site that mentioned that they had actually died?  Dismas |(talk) 17:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, Sinbad (actor) has been WP:OFFICE protected and there are "interesting" things on the talk page, so I guess it is this Sinbad?  x42bn6  Talk 02:13, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

copyrighted images
User:Qweenb has been uploading a number of photos that do not have adequate source or copyright info/licenses. I've removed all of them that weren't already removed by other editors. I've already told them that they're not supposed to be doing this. Is there a way to report this? WP:AIV doesn't seem like the right place since this isn't really vandalism. They're making a lot of good edits at the same time by adding infoboxes and such. So what can I do? Dismas |(talk) 17:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd say WP:ANI. If the user doesn't heed copyright warnings, they'll need to be blocked. Xiner (talk, email) 17:38, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * K, thanks! Dismas |(talk) 18:20, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

AFD
How many times an article can be nominated for AFD deletion (and prod deletion)? Is there any limit?--NAHID 18:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * No, but you should consider your chances and see if there's another way to resolve the problem. Xiner (talk, email) 18:11, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * AfD is unlimited, but nominations are likely to be speedy-closed if you're nominating an article unreasonably quickly. WP:PROD has a limit of once ever (if an article has been prodded before, further deletion attempts must go through AfD if they aren't speedied). --ais523 18:15, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * There's no limit on AFD, but you should think really hard before renominating something. You need to be able to show that something changed since the last AFD or that policy wasn't followed in which case you'd have to go through deletion review first. - Mgm|(talk) 22:04, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Vandaled site
The site for Davidson Fine Arts School in Augusta Georgia was vandalized and that link is still active on Goggle and Yahoo eventhough the corrections have been made in Wikipedia. I can not figure out how to tell who did the vandalization or how to get google and yahoo to refresh the links. Please assist a Media Specialist who is attempting to learn your product. Also, I believe we should be able to protect the correct information but we need help to know how to do this.

Sincerely, Jeff Pullium Media Center of DavidsonFineArts
 * Google and Yahoo update their listings according to their own schedules. There is no way to force them to update.  Page protection is possible but is normally only used for cases of repeated vandalism to an article.  See WP:RFP for more.  Dismas |(talk) 18:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

upload thumbnails
How do I upload a thumbnail INTO a page?

I have located the instruction that show me what to write, i.e.

Float to the right side of the page without a caption:

But then what?

I have already uploaded the image I want into wikipedia. The image is Carey_Harrison_0133.jpg

I tried writing this in under without a caption:

But when I saved the changes all I got on my page were the words, Float to the right side of the page etc

How do I actually edit so that the page acquires the thumbnail?

Thank you

Careyh 18:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I've added the image for you. I'll put a list of helpful links, as part of a welcome message, on your talk page...  Dismas |(talk) 18:39, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

PrintCity 'copyright violation' message on Wikipedia
Hi,

I just posted a short description of my organisation 'PrintCity' on Wikipedia tonight (15.3.07) but your site now tells me taht you consider this posting a copyright violation.

How can this be please?

I am responsible for PrintCity and I posted the PrintCity page myself.

i am new to Wikipedia so please explain what I have done wrong (if anything).

Thank you,

David Stamp PrintCity

Tel: + 44 15242 76425

Email: 
 * It has copied text from the web site for your company. That text is copyrighted.  You own the copyright.  In order to post text to this site, it must be released under the GFDL like it says at the bottom of every single page.  Also, the article will be deleted because it reads like an advertisement.  Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not an advertising medium.  Also, your company may not be notable enough for an article.  Please see WP:CORP as well as WP:AUTO.  Dismas |(talk) 19:29, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, WP:COI for information about conflicts of interest (creating an article about a subject that you're closely involved with) --Maelwys 19:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * A whole heap of major policy issues with your article, basically. Read the answers at Help_desk. - Adrian   M. H.  21:39, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Corporate bios as articles
I recently stumbled upon an article about someone I know. When I went back today to source it and fix the catgories, I realized that it is taken verbatim from his executive bio on his company's website. I also noticed that he created the article almost a year ago. There is not much available in the way of other sources, so re-writing the article will turn it into more of a stub than it already is. But the article may be okay according to wp:blp. What's the best way to proceed?--67.161.13.243 19:41, 15 March 2007 (UTC) (I'm using my IP address for this because I don't want him to know it was me questioning his page.)


 * I've listed the page for speedy deletion because I think it's non-notable, but would like someone else to confirm that. Xiner (talk, email) 19:57, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm in a deletionist mood, so I would probably agree. The company itself is notable enough, and that's where facts about the CEO should be. Adrian   M. H.  21:42, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It's fine to use the subject as a source of all sorts of information, but we need at least one other source to determine whether the subject is notable which is something they can't determine themselves. - Mgm|(talk) 22:02, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

What is the WP:NOR policy on topics with more than one subject?
Hi, there is an issue going on at Talk:Islam and antisemitism, where a user is asserting that unless a source mentions both Islam and antisemitism, it is original research. I can't find this in WP:NOR. Can someone help me? Also, does this has ramifications for all the other articles with similar names: Mormonism and Judaism, Trade and usage of saffron, Redwood National and State Parks? Thanks. -- Ķĩřβȳ ♥  Ťįɱé  Ø  19:59, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * In only the first of these is the use of "and" semantically analogous.Proabivouac 20:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * A source that only mentions Islam xor Antisemitism should be fine, as long as it verifies a fact or argument. That's all. However, there may be a case where a source describes Islam, but does not take into account Antisemitism and is thus erroneous, although this is not always the case. Vice versa may happen as well. Grace notes T  § 20:17, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

External link opening to new window
How to I add an external link to a page that opens automatically into a new browser window? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jausel (talk • contribs).
 * 1) You can't. You could probably make it so that all links open in a new window for you by altering your monobook.js (ask at the technical village pump if you need assistance with that), or just right click on a link and select "Open link in new window". However, you cannot make others open a link in a new window -- MediaWiki doesn't allow it. Grace notes T  § 20:39, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Please don't do this. I, for one, hate it when links open in new windows.  If I want something in a new window, I'll right click to do it.  Dismas |(talk) 21:02, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Bus routes?
Are lists of bus routes appropriate material for Wikipedia? This came up when one of these showed up in the list of the longest articles. Clarityfiend 20:34, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * They might be. I'm not aware of any consensus either way. Unfortunatley you won't get a whole lot of input here, though. I suggest you try opening a Request for Comment to get wide input from the community. — coe l acan — 20:41, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * They might be if the route is particularly well known. (I wouldn't dispute I route listing for any of the lines on the London Underground) If it was my regional busline, I'd object. We have to draw a line somewhere and routes that are not part of a well-known system or pass multiple wellknown places are probably not a good idea to spend your time on. - Mgm|(talk) 21:59, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I found (and then lost) a guideline against your run-of-the-mill subway and train route, so I've created an RfC. There appear to be a lot of these articles. Clarityfiend 03:01, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I responded at User:Clarityfiend/Bus route notability. --NE2 03:07, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds like another opportunity to transwiki information rather than wastefully destroy it. WikiIndex's Category:Travel lists some wikis that might accept bus routes that seem non-notable to Wikipedia. Obviously, to all the people who ride a particular bus route, it's notable enough to them. Does anyone know of a wiki that specializes in transit routes and schedules? --Teratornis 02:50, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Lower dispute resolution than RfC
Does anyone know if there's a lower Please Help service than RfC? I've been - uh - charged, I guess - with trying to solve a dispute at Racism by country because I was "edit warring" with a user who kept deleting sourced content for changing reasons. Anyways, I put together a very tight replacement segment that (I foolishly figured) no one could really object to, as it's tightly sourced and says very little. Anyhow, the responses of other editors were things like Concluding discrimination based on ethnic differences is racism is original research and The U.S. Department of State, Amnesty International and the United Nations High Commission on Human Rights are not reliable sources or I don't think this is true. I only have so much time/effort, and I'd rather not devote it to dealing with this kind of stuff in a section I don't really care about - while it's unfortunate that it goes on, we all have to prioritise out editing time. But the admin who protected the page says he won't unprotect unless a consensus is reached. I've already offered a Lenin-esque No War - No Peace solution where I'd just let the section get blanked, since a lot of other parts of the article are a complete mess and I'd like to try to work on them, but I've been told No dice - find a consensus. I don't really feel like I should go to RfC with a short history and not that much discussion, but I also don't want to have to waste most of my editing time trying to find a consensus where it will take weeks or months if it's at all possible. I'm just not sure if there's a place I can go with this problem, rather than just tough it out. WilyD 13:26, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Third opinions might help. Grace notes T  § 21:03, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Citing web sites
I know it is "illegal" to copy and paste information from other web sties. Can you paraphrase what someone said (from an external source/web site) and then make it a foot note/reference? according to the Biographies of living persons, "Material found in self-published books, zines, websites or blogs should never be used, unless written or published by the subject". According to this, I can not cite web sites (such as an article or interview) for credibility, however, this seams to be a common practise on Wikipedia. Can I "legally" cite other web site for facts? Thanks, Ncix 22:43, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Paraphrasing other websites and citing them is exactly what you should be doing. I'm confused as exactly the problem here. Unless the interview was published by the same person that was interviewed (not likely), it's fine. - Wo o  ty   Woot?   contribs  22:45, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The word "self-published" refers to all the sources in that sentence. It's fine to cite a website, it's self-published websites that are problematic. You can cite them too, but not to establish notability. Just use common sense in determining if the cite you are sourcing is reliable or has ulterior motives. - Mgm|(talk) 23:06, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Image upload- Portrait photos displayed as landscape
How do you get a portrait photo such as to disply correctly in an article, please? Vernon White (talk)  23:44, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Vernon. You can use the following code:


 * Obviously, change the text :) "Thumb" means it will appear as a thumbnail, "right" will right align it (you can also have "left" or "center"), and "300px" is the size the image will display at (here, 300 pixels)  Neil   (not Proto ►)  23:50, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I have also re-uploaded your image to Image:WarMemor.jpg (note the missing e in "jpg") so it is the right way up (you can do this with any image on your computer if you have Windows XP - just open it by double clicking on it, then right click on the image and pick "Rotate".) Neil   (not Proto ►)  23:54, 15 March 2007 (UTC)