Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2007 March 26

= March 26 =

how to use the wikipedia account?
I have sign up in wikipedia but dont knw for which purpose should i use my account? can I send e-mail from my account to my friend? plz guide me..
 * Well this is the online encyclopedia that anyone can edit. It has little to do with sending email and more to do with writing and helping out with tasks that benefit the encyclopedia. If you'd like to help out and get involved, a good launching point is the Community Portal. Regarding email, you can send email to other Wikipedians, but not to outside email addresses. We're not a free email host.--Fuhghettaboutit 03:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The first thing to do with your account is to sign your posts on talk pages, by typing four tildes, like this: . (This page is not technically in a "Talk" namespace, but by convention we treat it as if it is. On Wikipedia, we always follow the rules, except when we don't.) You might also make your user page. To learn what other Wikipedians do with their accounts, as well as to learn what a Wikipedian is, start reading User:John Broughton/Editor's Index to Wikipedia and the (many) pages it links to. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia about pretty much everything, so this is a very complex project. (It's quite possible that no single human has a solid grasp on everything going on here, any more than the President of the United States knows what every government employee or agency is doing.) You might also bookmark this Help desk page, and each day come back and read the day's questions and answers, following the links in the answers to read more details. That will give you a good picture on what is going on here, or at least a subset of such activities that people are asking for help about. If you want to send e-mail to your friend from Wikipedia, your friend will also have to sign up for a Wikipedia account. Ultimately your goal should be to edit some articles, making them better than they were before you arrived. If you have a particular interest, you might see if a WikiProject exists for it, and join. I also recommend the training videos for an easy introduction to what wikis are about. --Teratornis 14:41, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Honorius and his likely Google company
Right now, if you Google "Honorius", Wikipedia's article Honorius (emperor) is listed with the following summary: "Encyclopedia article which recounts the life of this Roman Emperor in a negative light." "Negative light"? Not exactly the NPOV goal here. Also, I'm guessing that whatever robot/well-intentioned person/vandal is responsible for this has done the same thing for other articles. Who should be alerted, and in what way? $$\sim$$ Lenoxus " * " 05:58, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I wonder how that happened. I'd expect developers to be responsible for Google summaries, perhaps contact those. - Mgm|(talk) 07:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * See Developers. - Mgm|(talk) 07:43, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I am pretty sure that Google's summaries, which sometimes appear in place of a piece of text, are the editorial work of Google themselves. I just looked at the abstract given by Google for a site I am involved with which is (while accurate) not a form of words ever provided on the site. I cannot find a confirmation of this, but it may be worth asking on Talk:Google if anyone knows of it. Notinasnaid 10:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe it was taken from the text of links linking into Wikipedia from outside? --ais523 12:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Google does not have resources to manually make descriptions. They get many descriptions from Open Directory Project, including this one which is from http://dmoz.org/Society/History/By_Time_Period/Ancient/Rome/People/Roman_Emperors/Honorius/ The "update listing" link there can be used to suggest a new description. The suggestion will (it may take some time) be reviewed by an ODP editor who decides what to do. PrimeHunter 12:51, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Reduntantly or no, I have just submitted a title change request to the ODP. Thanks a bunch, everyone, especially PrimeHunter. $$\sim$$ Lenoxus " * " 11:28, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Johnny Clegg
I would like to know if anyone is able to help me meet Johnny Clegg. I've tried to meet him for more or less 9 years now. I've sent emails to editors of newspapers, magazines, tv shows and radio stations asking if they could help out. I've met one of his band members who tried to get me backstage to meet Johnny after a concert.People in France, Germany, America, Australia and South Africa have tried to help me meet Johnny. I've written letters and phoned, but nothing has worked. I'm 16 years old and keep getting turned down after concerts to meet Johnny Clegg. Please let me know if you can help me meet Johnny. Thank you.41.241.245.190 06:08, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry but Wikipedia is not able to help you with that. We are writing an Encyclopedia and just have an article about Johnny Clegg. PrimeHunter 12:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia cannot guarantee you will meet anyone in particular, or succeed in any particular goal, but Wikipedia can help with lots of things, or at least point to things you can try. For example, I don't recall ever hearing about Johnny Clegg before, but just by reading his Wikipedia article I have some idea of how a person might go about trying to meet him. The more famous a person becomes, the more difficult they often become to meet, because famous people have more people demanding their time. To meet Johnny Clegg, you would probably have to turn yourself into one of those people Johnny Clegg wants to meet. You have to make yourself as notable to Clegg as he is to you. The wrong approach is probably to act like a fan, because popular performers tend to automatically keep fans at a distance. The obvious approach to things is often the wrong approach, because it will be crowded by many other people who similarly recognize the obvious approach. If the front door is crowded, look for the back door. Accumulate a list of all the people Johnny Clegg deals with as peers, learn everything you can about how they got to be where they are now, and try to duplicate what they did. For example, you met one of Clegg's band members. You could learn to play the same musical instrument(s), and learn all the parts that member plays in all of Clegg's songs. It probably can't be too difficult, assuming Clegg's music is not unduly virtuosic (I have not heard Clegg's music; but most popular music is not extraordinarily difficult to play, only requiring a few years of study by moderately talented people in many cases); probably any number of musicians in your area could teach you. You could start a Johnny Clegg cover band. Get really good, and maybe your band could open for Clegg's band someday. (I talked to some guys in a local cover band who, on one occasion, ended up playing some Lee Ritenour songs for the real Lee Ritenour who dropped by the club. They invited him to sit in, and he declined, saying he was "off the clock.") Maybe by getting directly involved as a musician, you will meet the next Johnny Clegg before he makes it. Maybe you will be the next Johnny Clegg. (One of the most important ingredients to success, after talent, is fanatical dedication, and you seem to have plenty of it. The road to success is typically filled with setbacks and failures, and most people give up fairly quickly. The fanatically dedicated person keeps bouncing back; as Winston Churchill famously intoned, although not to his enemies, "Never give up.") Or you could become a writer, and start working on a Johnny Clegg biography. If you make yourself into an effective Johnny Clegg mouthpiece and significantly advance his cause, you might make it well worth his time to meet you someday. Or you could become a journalist, and make it your job to go around meeting and interviewing celebrities. Celebrities talk to reporters, because that's how celebrities maintain their celebrity status. Famous people have to deal with other people just like everyone else, so figure out who Johnny Clegg has to deal with, and work your way into that group. Read biographies of lots of famous people, not just Johnny Clegg, and see what you can learn about what they did to get to the top. Then try to meet the people who write the biographies, and ask them how they learned to do that, and who they met along the way. --Teratornis 15:34, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

A MISTAKE BROUGHT TO YOUR ATTENTION
If you are not the right editor for this item, please pass it on to whoever is. I just pulled up the subject "Doberman Pinscher" on Wikepedia and although there are several photographs of actual Doberman Pinschers, the first photo to greet the viewer is of a tiny breed of dog that looks like a Miniature Manchester Terrier. Until recently a photo of a magnificent Doberman was in that space. Is somebody playing a joke with your format or what? Please check this out and make the necessary correction. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.117.106.58 (talk) 07:10, 26 March 2007 (UTC).
 * It looks like someone corrected the mistake. -SpuriousQ (talk) 07:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't like spam.
Category:Quest Software and its 21 articles seem to be 100% spam, the product of a single user. Since I don't want to have to add a speedy deletion tag to that many pages, here I am. Clarityfiend 08:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You could try contacting someone with access to AutoWikiBrowser. - Mgm|(talk) 09:11, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

updating spiderman 3
i just received new information that spiderman 3 will be released in Singapore on may 1 2007.I would really appreciate that you update the page on spiderman 3 saying that the movie will be released on may 1 2007 in Singapore!!! Thank you!!! I would have done this myself if the page was not semi-protected.This is just a gentle reminder!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shaktis100 (talk • contribs) 08:39, 26 March 2007 (UTC).


 * Spider-Man 3 currently only mentions release dates in Japan (world premiere) and USA (production country and largest commercial market). The Singapore market appears to have relatively low importance and may not be notable enough to mention. It can be discussed at Talk:Spider-Man 3. PrimeHunter 12:28, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The external links include International release dates which is probably not worth copying to the article. PrimeHunter 12:32, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You could search search WikiIndex for others wikis that focus more on Singapore or movies, and see if any would welcome this type of detailed information. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Teratornis (talk • contribs) 15:55, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

Signing the time only
Three signs your name, four ~ signs the time aswell. How about only the time? How can this be done? Think outside the box 11:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Five tildes generates the time part of the signature: 11:07, 26 March 2007 (UTC). --ais523 11:07, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that! I should have been able to work that one out! Think outside the box 11:25, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * How to find it: rather than trying to work these things out, I recommend looking them up. Wikipedia is one of the most comprehensively documented systems anywhere; answers to generic questions like these are almost certain to be written down somewhere. In this case, the relevant document is WP:SIG, specifically WP:SIG. You initially had the word "sign," and that was enough for a  search on User:John Broughton/Editor's Index to Wikipedia. The magical trick for finding just about everything pertaining to editing here is to browse to the Editor's Index and type , whenever you have just a bit of the Wikipedia jargon to work with. --Teratornis 16:06, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

ASAP
Sorry in the wrong place I bet. Thuis guys a Vandal 24.39.181.168 see Cars Film article etc could someboby warrn him or put a block in?--McNoddy 13:20, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * User talk:24.39.181.168 reports a 48-hour block. WP:AIV is a better place. PrimeHunter 13:43, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank You for your help and speedy reply PrimeHunter --McNoddy 13:45, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Deleting searches
Hello,

How can I delete my past searches please so that they are not displayed under the search window/ Thank you.208.7.160.78 14:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hehe, what are you trying to hide? ;-) Anyway, these are stored by your browser, not Wikipedia. Check your browser's documentation. -SpuriousQ (talk) 14:05, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * More notes about browsers and Wikipedia are here: User:John Broughton/Editor's Index to Wikipedia. --Teratornis 17:34, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You can re-set your browser, to its factory settings. This should remove all entries into your browser. Scottydude 20:21, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Staying signed in ...
I am having no luck signing in on LOSTPEDIA.COM.

I sign in and my name appears in the header, however, when I navigate away from the sign-in confirmation page, my name "disappears," and it seems that I am no longer signed in.

How do I correct this?

Thanks,

67.142.130.26 15:05, 26 March 2007 (UTC)Lisakaymck
 * Try using the 'remember me' checkbox and making sure you've got cookies set. If you're using a satellite ISP, there are known problems involving such ISPs and MediaWiki (Wikipedia has a workaround, but I don't think other MediaWiki wikis do.) Hope that helps! --ais523 15:10, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Adding an external link?
I have written an article that could be made the target of an "external link" from (in this case) the main article on the Mandelbrot Set.

However, I somehow feel that any such link would have to have a certain minimum quality and add value to the main article. I am very nervous about just adding the link myself, especially as there is so much good stuff out there already.

What is the procedure in this case? (I am a new user, apologies if this has already been asked and answered somewhere.)

The article in question is here:

http://www.tooby.demon.co.uk/Log/DidYouKnow.html#TheAmazingMandelbrot

The intention of the article is give someone with a non-mathematical background an insight into what is going on, not by ignoring the maths, but by trying to explain what the maths is really doing. Whether the article is successful in this, only other people can judge!

AirToob 15:11, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You can discuss whether the link is appropriate on the article's talk page (in this case, Talk:Mandelbrot set). Hope that helps! --ais523 15:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! AirToob 15:17, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

External Liink Addition/Deletion
I recently added an external link (http://www.holylochmarina.homecall.co.uk) onto Holy Loch and Sandbank, Argyll and bute pages. The link is relevant to the area as it is what is happening right now. It can even be classed as a historic event as it details everything from the start to the present concerning the construction of the "holy loch marina" and will continue to be informative. If you consider the link innapropriate because it is

"Please do not add inappropriate external links to Wikipedia, as you did in Holy Loch. Wikipedia is not a mere directory of links nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Inappropriate links include (but are not limited to) links to personal web sites, links to web sites with which you are affiliated, and links that exist to attract visitors to a web site or promote a product. See the external links guideline and spam policies for further explanations of links that are considered appropriate. If you feel the link should be added to the article, then please discuss it on the article's talk page rather than re-adding it. See the welcome page to learn more about Wikipedia. Thank you.. Wikipedia is not for the purpose of publicising your campaigns or causes, no matter how good. Notinasnaid 17:52, 25 March 2007 (UTC)"

and

"Please stop adding inappropriate external links to Wikipedia, as you did in Sandbank, Argyll and Bute. It is considered spamming, and Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising. Thanks. Notinasnaid 17:58, 25 March 2007 (UTC)"

then by your own rules both links to "river rocket" and "holy loch marina" should be removed also as they are both companies using your pages as a promotional exercise i.e advertising.

thankyou

belfrygirl
 * An independent look at this may be a good idea since you are clearly not satisfied with the messages you have been sent. The correct site link is http://www.holylochmarina.homecall.co.uk . Relevant articles: Sandbank, Argyll and Bute; Marina; Argyll and Bute; Holy Loch; List of marinas; Dunoon. Relevant user contributions (from one or many people): Belfrygirl; 88.110.61.176; 88.111.144.168; 88.111.232.250; 88.111.175.197 . Notinasnaid 16:57, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Of course I am not happy with the messages I have been sent. I was told wiki is not to be used to promote a product, which both of those links that are allowed to be on there are clearly promoting their business ergo they should be removed also if my factual account of the construction of a marina from the points of view of the people being affected by it isn't even allowed to be listed and accused of being spam or promotion of a campaign then wikipedia must surely be guilty of not allowing both views to be considered. my point in all this is that both river rocket and holy loch marina links paint a picture of sandbank that is not factual. I look forward to hearing the independant review of this.

belfrygirl 19.55 gmt 26 march 2007
 * It would be good to have some other opinions before I bring my interpretation of Wikipedia's policies/guidelines to this. Notinasnaid 05:59, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Policies/Guidelines as you have stated "is not a mere directory of links nor should it be used for advertising or promotion" the article itself is clearly promoting a private business i.e the marina and I quote "Sandbank is now the location of The Holy Loch Marina, a successful development with over 200 berths (and growing) available. There is a chandlers and brokerage onsite as well as high-speed adventure rides on the 'River Rocket', a twin engined, 12-seater RIB." so to ban my link that clearly shows the effect this "growing" business is having on the village and allow this blatant promotion is hypocritical. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Belfrygirl (talk • contribs) 16:26, 27 March 2007 (UTC).


 * as an addition to my comment above, something more in keeping with wikipedias guidelines would be to change the paragraph quoted to, "There are several aquatic leisure activities to be found in the Holy Loch by Sandbank ranging from a marina to boat trips" or something along those lines but to approve these links to river rocket and the marina is disregarding your own guidelines for which i am being censored Belfrygirl 17:53, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Third Opinion: Of all articles mentioned, the link could be added to Sandbank, Argyll and Bute, and only when the article itself has a referenced sentence/paragraph detailing the events described on the website the external link in question leads to. The website itself has some links to independent sources (Dunoon observer e.a.), so you could easily write more on the subject on Wikipedia, and I encourage you to do so. Perhaps a 'Criticism' paragraph or something. Be sure to not only refer to yourself in the article - use a neutral point of view.

Note that I disagree with just adding the link, without adding any content to the article. --User:Krator (t c) 22:21, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Thankyou for that opinion, so if the user notinasnaid is agreeable to this I can write a small entry on the page regarding the construction of the marina and how it is affecting the village then add the link ? I do apologise for just adding the link as a relative new comer to wiki policies and guidelines are something you find out about through something like this.Belfrygirl 15:20, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Infobox shown partially?
Hello everyobody. Could you take a look on the Goofy article, please? Well... does anyone know why some items of the infobox are not shown? After "aliases" there should be "relatives", "friends" and "rivals" (check by editing the article)... but I can't see them (under both IE and Firefox). I asked in its discussion page first, but I had no anwer. Goodbye! --151.38.18.125 17:35, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * They are not valid parameters for this template.  says there are only a few parameters you can use.   x42bn6  Talk 17:38, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Additionally, if the parameters are not filled in in the source text then they will be ommited from the infobox. Scottydude 20:19, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Why do they omitted so many parameters in that template? I can't figure why... So, the only way to show that informations is to write them inside the article itself, right? --151.38.18.125 06:55, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Someone Help me
Don't know if i'm in the right forum but anyway, my Username is "Whatever", and i am trying to Log in and trying to get a new password cause i forgot it and I'm getting a:

Jump to: navigation, searchLogin error: Error sending mail: There is no e-mail address recorded for user "Whatever".

I don't want to create a (new) different username like i did once before, I operate on Mac 9.02, please help someone Help Me —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.237.186.38 (talk) 17:50, 26 March 2007 (UTC).
 * Well, if you didn't register an e-mail address, you need to create another username. Otherwise, there's no way of knowing that you really are User:Whatever. Veinor (talk to me) 18:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Veinor; you know what, you might be right, I thought it had to do something with my rather vintage browser, can i still use the same Username? –  64.237.186.38 20:14, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * No, if you cannot access your user account than you cannot reuse its name in a new account. Sorry, Scottydude 20:18, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * … wow, quick response, thanks for the help, its unfair, shouldn't be like that, wasn't informed when I signed in, there are so many things in protocol, everyone got to know me already,  but i could add a dash maybe. – 64.237.186.38 20:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I added the fact you need an email address to retrieve passwords to the sign up page a few months ago.... - Mgm|(talk) 08:38, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I just checked. It's still there. The page says: "You are not required to share your e-mail address, but providing one is the only way to retrieve a forgotten password." - Mgm|(talk) 08:43, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, Yes, sorry, wanted to keep myself stealth, e-mail address is going from now on!, thanks for info! • – 64.237.186.38 14:38, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Humanity
What should one do to make her hair grows faster?Naomi Emilly 18:29, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * If this is a serious question you should ask it at the Reference Desk.Scottydude 18:31, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Technicality of articles
I recently read a complaint on the article Pethidine, which is a drug similar to Morphine. This anon user complained that the article didn't speak in laymens terms. I can't seem to find Wikipedia's stance on this matter. Where should an editor draw the line? Is accuracy technical, or laymens? Thanks much, Scottydude 18:35, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe it's to allow as many people to understand the basics of the subject as possible. There is a template,  for this purpose.   x42bn6  Talk 18:51, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Articles should be accessible to layman, but you need to be careful not to dumb it down too much. When writing keep in mind a reasonable well-educated reader with absolutely no knowledge of the field of expertise in the article. - Mgm|(talk) 08:36, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

HELP: I want to delete my account!
how do i delete my account... and all the history and my record from wikipedia..--Towaru 18:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * You don't. Ask an admin at WP:AN. -- Darkest Hour  18:48, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Accounts are not deleted, but you can request your user page to be deleted by adding . --KFP (talk | contribs) 18:51, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Bug in my coding?
↓ Gets: ↓

I prefer the first one but both show [hide] when there is no content, when you click on [hide] it then says [show], when I click on [show] it finally shows my content. What did I code wrong? -- Darkest Hour  18:45, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I can see the weird effect that you describe, but I can't see what might be causing it. Your code looks correct at first glance. Adrian M. H.  19:34, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm. maybe:

Gives:

I'm not sure what the problem was, though... probably some duplicate code, messed with it and this appears to work. Nihiltres 21:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Un-sweet. look at my user page, -- Darkest Hour  21:53, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm... the code is now expressing itself differently than it was before. (edited my comment for clarity) But now, the code seems to be acting exactly as it should act, so try putting back your original code. Maybe someone made a small, faulty change to one of the nav code implementations, and reverted it just now. Nihiltres 22:44, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Deleting Entries from Wikipedia
Could you tell me if entries are deleted from Wikipediaif they do not receive enough hits? If so, how many hits do you expect on a monthly, yearly basis? Thank you —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kathy nealen (talk • contribs) 19:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC).
 * Absolutely irrelevant. Pages are deleted if they do not meet minimum standards for notability, not popularity. Adrian M. H.  19:31, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * See the Current candidates for deletion and the Criteria for speedy deletion for examples of the types of articles that are deleted. GhostPirate 20:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

how do I place teams on sports brackets
I would like to know how to place teams on brackets to update them. If anyone can help with this please tell me. 2002champs 19:36, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Any specific page? The best I could find was  that uses, using the commment Date-Place|Team 1|Score 1|Team 2|Score 2 as a guide.   x42bn6  Talk 20:08, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

The Page I Would Like to know how to put teams on is 2006-07 ECHL season. 20 02  champs   t  al  k  23:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * To insert information into the brackets on 2006-07 ECHL season you must enter more parameters. To view how to use these parameters look at the template's talk page.  For instance on Template talk:8TeamBracket you can see the parameters for this bracket.  Hope this helps, good luck! Scottydude 23:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

New article
I am working on an operating system which does not have a web site and is not yet availible and is not mentioned on the web. Would it be possible to make a page for it without it being a candidate for speedy deletion?P2me 21:05, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe so. You might want to put it in a sub page for backup in case it does get deleted. -- Darkest Hour  21:10, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * So you want to write about your product (COI), which lacks any reliable reference sources..... That would, and should, get speedily deleted. Create it in your own sandbox if you want to, but do not upload it to the mainspace until it warrants it. Adrian M. H.  21:25, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * See WP:COI. Nihiltres 21:38, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I would definitely wait until it gets some external attention (reliable sources outside of your company and Wikipedia) before even considering a move to mainspace. If you don't think it will get attention, you may want to reconsider even starting it. Mr.Z-man  talk ¢ Review! 21:45, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a host server for sites but a encyclopedia for notable topics. An article, written by you, would warrant speedy deletion until it is notable. Scottydude 22:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You should try another wiki. See Alternative outlets and search WikiIndex. Later, if your operating system becomes notable, someone will write an article for it on Wikipedia. A wiki which caters to software development projects would not only be a good place for you to write about your operating system, it would allow your early adopters to collaborate with you in its further development and documentation. --Teratornis 16:14, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

expiry of copyright
Is there a more specialized help desk for copyright questions on the English Wikipedia? (If so where? If not, here we go:)

I've gotten into a (so far good-natured) disagreement over copyright expiry with a potential copyright holder, and would like to verify that I don't misunderstand the copyright regulations as well as to get help for a dispute resolution that will leave everyone feeling okay.

The story: I've uploaded several images whose authors have clearly died more than 70 years ago (e.g., architectural sketches by Thomas Jefferson: example). Now someone from one of the Special Collections of the University of Virginia Library has asked me to add "Copyright, Rector and Visitors of the University of Virginia" to the images. (I had contacted them with a question about the authorship of further images and had indicated which article I wished to use them for.)

My opinion: I replied that there seemed to be a misunderstanding--to my knowledge, copyright expires after 70 years; copies of two-dimensional works don't represent copyrightable material and thus are not copyrighted beyond the 70 years either; and derivative work of those copies (i.e. my edited, uploaded images) cannot be copyrighted either. Bottomline: I can't attribute copyright to the Library because the works are not copyrighted.

Status quo: I got a friendly reply, saying that the person writing to me was no copyright attorney and could not "confirm or deny with any hope of accuracy [my] interpretation of the copyright laws". And he reiterated his request that I add the line about the Library's copyright to the pictures.

My problem: I don't know where best to go from here and would appreciate any help and suggestions: Am I grossly misunderstanding something about copyrights? (I've even started looking up some legal texts, but don't see what I may be misinterpreting; and the interpretation seems to be common on Wikipedia.) If not, how do I find a good solution with the Library? I definitely don't want to alienate them (esp. not as Wikipedia is seen as part of this--the UVa Library is a great library, they have nice online resources and could still be a valuable resource for other Wikipedians). On the other hand, I've even heard something about it being illegal (?) to claim a copyright that doesn't exist [could someone fill me in with the correct facts and the terminology?], so Wikipedia obviously shouldn't claim something like that if it's not true. Besides, if the works are copyrighted, we're of course getting into trouble with the licensing...

My request: Again, any recommendations, explanations (are there controversies about the interpretation of the copyright laws which could explain the Library's stand?), anything would be very appreciated. Relatedly, I'd love to know the exact meaning of "Courtesy of..." - I've seen several authors used the Library's materials with that line underneath the images. Does it have any legal implication? Would it be "okay" to write that into the description of the images even if they were not (!) downloaded from the resp. Library? etc. etc. Thanks!!! --Ibn Battuta 23:07, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I can't help you myself, but maybe the people at Media copyright questions will be able to. I suggest posting your question there, too. jwillburtalk 00:55, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks!! That sounds like what I was looking for! --Ibn Battuta 01:58, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * And if it is, indeed, copyright, of course it cannot be used in Wikipedia! Notinasnaid 06:01, 27 March 2007 (UTC)