Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2007 November 11

= November 11 =

auto collapse TOC
can the main TOC be set to auto collapse as with some navboxes (not actually disappear as with but just hidden)? thanks Williams119 00:03, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The TOC is collapsable already - if you click on the "hide" link, it will collapse as you're describing. For navigational purposes, it is expanded by default. There may be some way to modify your monobook.js or .css files to cause them to be collapsed by default, but I'm not sure what that would be or if it is even possible. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 01:37, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

what motivates editors? do they get paid?
I mean if knowledge is power, then why would you want to share your knowledge with others? This makes me suspicious that the content on WP might be inaccurate, unless you guys are part of the illuminati or something trying to brainwash us all? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.72.6.65 (talk) 02:48, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, what an opinion you have there. I think it is different for everybody.  Most people consider it a hobby. - Rjd0060 02:53, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Shhh, Rjd0060! This guy is onto us! —Animum (a rag man) 02:59, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * :] That's the funniest thing I've heard all week! R udget zŋ 12:04, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm sure there is a page listing common motivations lying around somewhere, but I couldn't find anything authoritative. A few that come to mind are altruism, enjoyment and desire to gain knowledge\experience\skill.
 * The answer to the second question is no. There are (to the best of my knowledge) very few paid positions in the Wikimedia foundation (mostly developers and such).
 * The only way you can truly hope to know if Wikipedia is trying to brainwash the world is to infiltrate our ranks and, in time, gain access to our innermost secrets. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 14:51, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * For some of us, it's just the joy of expanding the planet-wide knowledge base in a manner most accessible to the common people. And, of course, Because It Seemed the Fannish Thing to Do! -- Orange Mike 13:43, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * For me, being generous makes me feel good. Regards, Ben Aveling 21:10, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Trouble editing when logged in
Hi, I have recently noticed that I can't edit pages/undo changes or see diff pages. When I click "edit this page" or "view source" (on protected pages), or links to diff pages, my browser doesn't recognise the php file type (index.php). (It does it on both Firefox and IExplore). But when I log off Wikipedia, I can do all that without any trouble, which means I edit under my IP as my username, and not my actual username. I haven't had any problems with php files before, except now. Can anyone think of why this happens and how to fix it, because I'd rather edit under my username than my IP. Please make any responses either here on on my talk page. Thanks. JJIG (t 02:56, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It could have something to do with a javascript file, but I don't think so (User:JJIG/monobook.js). JJIG (t 03:01, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Go to Special:Preferences and click the Editing tab. Maybe you have a check mark at "Use external editor by default". If so, does it help to remove it? PrimeHunter 03:03, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep, it works now. Thanks. JJIG (t 04:33, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Getting Old Info
Hi there. This is the first time I have used the help desk. One article on here was recently deleted, and I needed the info on the page. Is there any way that I can get the old info from the page? Mhavril39 03:39, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It depends why it was deleted. Administrators can see deleted pages. And sometimes a mirrored version can be found, for example with a Google search on the page name. Which page was it? PrimeHunter 04:10, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * If you check the deletion log, you can contact the administrator who deleted the page. Depending on the circumstances, they're usually willing to restore a deleted page to your userspace in situations such as this. If you're willing, you could even improve the article so that it can be put back into the main article namespace. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 04:09, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikitable sortable
I would like the roster here to sort the player's year from freshman to senior (Fr. to Sr.) However, right now Jr. follows Fr. as opposed to So. when it is sorted. How may I fix this? I read the handbook here, which didn't help too much. I also tried using the template smn, but it didn't work as it did for the height. Thanks in advance for the help.  Blue  Ag09 (Talk) 03:54, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You want to read up on sortkeys. Those allow you to sort data in other ways than just alphabetical if you pick the right sortkey. - Mgm|(talk) 10:15, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * To clarify. Heights are numbers, you need to look into sorting strings by giving Jr. and Sr. hidden text strings to sort them with. - Mgm|(talk) 10:16, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Broken image help
I can't figure out whats wrong with this image: Image:Alcatel Lucent logo.svg. it is on the server, but you can only see it by clicking on the link of the image's page, not embed it. thanks --Ben Stone 06:00, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm. Thats weird. When I load the page, the image area shows for a brief moment, but then goes away. I don't know why it is doing that, but be patient and somebody will come along here. - Rjd0060 06:12, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I downloaded it, saved it as plain svg in inkscape and uploaded it over the old version. It works for me now. You might have to clear your cache to see the new version. Arthena(talk) 00:07, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

management theories
how might the following management theories approaches be useful to starbuck: scientific management, organization behaviour, quantitative approch and systems approch?·§ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.26.192.121 (talk) 06:03, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but this help desk is for questions about using Wikipedia. - Rjd0060 06:13, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

How to update "Pages that link to ..."
I changed a link in a template that is transcluded in hundreds of pages. However, "Pages that link to ..." still displays all of the old links. Are these somehow in a cache, and if so, how can I refresh the cache? &mdash; Sebastian 08:05, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Those "pages that link to" won't change unless the pages are edited (which causes them to be reindexed). You can ask someone with AutoWikiBrowser to 'touch' the pages in question. - Mgm|(talk) 10:09, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you! In that case, I rather won't bother other people. &mdash; Sebastian 18:16, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Question about primary topics on human name disambiguation pages
Hi there. We're hoping that this is the correct place for this question, but feel free to point us in the right direction if not. Neelix and Gilesbennett have slightly differing opinions on what the MoS says about the primary topic of human name disambiguation pages that have "(disambiguation)" in the title.

There are a couple of pages in question between the two of us, but we can put forward Christian Martin (disambiguation) as an example of the differences. Neelix is of the view that the structure should be :


 * {| style="border: 1px solid black" width=100%


 * Christian Martin is a VP and Executive Producer for NBC Universal - iVillage.
 * Christian Martin is a VP and Executive Producer for NBC Universal - iVillage.

Christian Martin may also refer to:


 * Christian Frederick Martin (1796-1873), luthier
 * Christian Martin Frahn (1782-1851), German numismatist and historian
 * Johann Christian Martin Bartels (1769-1836), German mathematician
 * }

Neelix's view is based on the idea that one of the 'Christian Martin's in the example above should come first as it is the result which would be shown immediately if the name Christian Martin were to be typed into the search field. This is based on the section of WP:MOSDAB which states:


 * When a page has "(disambiguation)" in the title, users are unlikely to stumble on it by accident. They will arrive there by clicking on a link from the primary topic article, by searching, or by directly typing its URL.


 * The link on the main article should be similar to:
 * For other uses, see School (disambiguation).


 * The otheruses template series can be used.


 * Since it is unlikely that this well-known meaning is what they are looking for, it should not be mixed in with the other links. It is recommended to place the link back to the primary topic at the top, like this:
 * {| style="border: 1px solid black" width=100%

A school is an institution for learning.

School may also refer to:
 * School (discipline), a group of people with common characteristics in what they do, e.g. a school of painting, or a school of thought
 * "School" (song), by the grunge music group Nirvana
 * School (band), a band from Konami's Pop'n Music series
 * A swarm of fish
 * }

Gilesbennett, on the other hand, doesn't think that any one person with the name "Christian Martin" should be preferred over any other (ie. be posted at the top of the page before "Other people called Christian Martin include :..." and that the structure should therefore be :


 * {| style="border: 1px solid black" width=100%


 * Christian Martin may refer to:
 * Christian Martin, VP and Executive Producer for NBC Universal - iVillage.
 * Christian Frederick Martin (1796-1873), luthier
 * Christian Martin Frahn (1782-1851), German numismatist and historian
 * Johann Christian Martin Bartels (1769-1836), German mathematician
 * }
 * }

This is based on the section of WP:MOSDAB which states:


 * For people, include their birth and death years (when known), and only enough descriptive information that the reader can distinguish between different people with the same name. Keep in mind the conventions for birth and death dates, see Manual of Style (dates and numbers). Do not include a, an or the before the description of the person's occupation or role.
 * {| style="border: 1px solid black" width=100%


 * John Smith is the name of:
 * John Smith (filmmaker) (born 1952), London-based avant-garde filmmaker
 * John Smith (mathematician) (18th century), mathematician at the University of Oxford, 1766–1797
 * John Smith (Ohio Senator) (1735–1824)
 * }
 * }

Could someone please point us in the direction of how to resolve this? There's no pride at stake, but both of us are keen to ensure that any disambiguation work which we undertake is done in accordance with the overall consensus on the appropriate manner of doing so.

Thanks in advance.

Giles Bennett (Talk, Contribs) Neelix
 * While the example with school seems to point to the first interpretation, I think the second feels more correct and appears to be what is used in practice, even if there's a lack of clarity in the MoS page. Things (schools and widgets) are quite different than people. No one searching "school" would ever expect to be taken to "school (song)". By contrast, many disambiguation pages for people have no such certainty about them. While there are exceptions to this (almost everyone searching Bill Gates is looking for the founder of Microsoft and not one of the others listed at Bill Gates (disambiguation)), most disambiguation pages I have looked at (such as the Bill Gates dab page) have the form of the latter. There's also something divisive about making one person's name take primacy on the disambiguation page. Having it in the first format feels like we're saying something more than "this is how we've ordered it based on likelihood of searches"; something like "this guy with the same name as the rest of these people, is more important as a person"; not a good result. I think a link to this thread should go on the MoS talk page with a short note that maybe some clarity should be added on the issue to the guideline.--Fuhghettaboutit 08:54, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * There will be no doubt differences on opinion on which name should take precedence, but ALL the names should be in the list and none should be separated. A primary definition is only mention in cases of non-people articles (like 'school') and when there is a high degree of certainty that is the definition most people would look for. - Mgm|(talk) 10:07, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Loose cannon, chasing rapidly changing IP editor
Recently, there have been a number of contributions to various Kent-related articles that are coming from IP numbers (80.0.110.148, 80.2.201.239, 80.0.117.237, 80.1.88.210, etc.). It looks like it may be the same person. The problem is that although the contributions seem well-intentioned, the editor appears to be blissfully unaware of WP's guidelines (POV, linking policy, verifiability etc). So far I have been unable to communicate with him/her because the IP address keeps changing.

It seems heavy-handed to revert, but at the same time their contributions need extensive fixing and it would be good to introduce them to Wikipedia principles. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with this? How does one chase an ip-editor? Pgr94 12:09, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest transferring this thread to administators noticeboard, it will get handled quicker and more effectively there. Regards, R udget zŋ 12:18, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your quick reply, have followed your advice. Best, Pgr94 12:22, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It's okay. R udget zŋ 12:24, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

blocked on the Swedish wikipedia
I have never written anything much on wikipedia, only (as far as I remember) added a little on one article each at the English and Swedish wikipedia, and that was a long time ago. The Swedish things still partly remain and I did not in those days know how to sign either. Today, I thought I might add something on the Swedish article that I had expanded earlier, but I found that I had been blocked from writing because my ip-address was the same as a "Mezjuev" unknown to me had used. Since it was impossible for me to ask the Swedish administrators what it is all about, I hope that you might link to them. I do not need to write anything on wikipedia, but it is strange to be blocked for an unknown reason.Jurgen Wullenwever 14:32, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Their comment was:

Din IP-adress har blockerats automatiskt eftersom den har använts av en annan användare som blockerats av Grillo. Motiveringen av blockeringen var:

Automatiskt blockerad, eftersom du har samma IP-adress som "Mezjuev". Motivering till blockeringen: "enligt användarens begäran på WP:BOÅ". Blockeringen startade 11 november 2007 kl. 12.50 Blockeringen gäller till 12 november 2007 kl. 12.50 Du kan kontakta Grillo eller någon annan administratör för att diskutera blockeringen.

Observera att du inte kan använda dig av funktionen "skicka e-post till användare" om du inte har registrerat en giltig e-postadress i dina inställningar eller om du har blivit blockerad från att skicka e-post.

Blockeringens ID är 19110. Vänligen ange blockerings-ID i alla förfrågningar som du gör i ärendet.


 * Hello Jurgen! Not trying to be too offensive but if you were blocked on the Swedish Wikipedia, what could we do? Regards, R udget zŋ 14:38, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Depending on your Internet connection, many people may have the same IP address. The Swedish message says the block expires tomorrow and you say you don't need to edit, so I suggest you just wait instead of spending time on this. PrimeHunter 16:24, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

images
how do i place or copy an image into an article?/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by D. R. O'shea (talk • contribs) 15:22, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * See Help:Image. :) PeaceNT 15:24, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Is it ur own image? 41.208.198.50 19:31, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Alphabet code
A - Alpha B- Beta C- D -Z Does anyone knows the rest used by pilots ? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shrimpwonton (talk • contribs) 15:29, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, Foxtrot, Golf, Hotel, India, Juliet, Kilo, Lima, Mike, November, Oscar, Papa, Quebec, Romeo, Sierra, Tango, Uniform, Victor, Whisky, X-ray, Yankee, Zulu. Although this is meant to be for Wikipedia related questions :) Qst (talk) 15:33, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * *annoyed* You might see also Greek alphabet or Category:Greek letters. :) PeaceNT 15:35, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * See also Spelling alphabet. I haven't heard of pilots who use B=Beta. PrimeHunter 16:19, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Sources of Information
I would like to ask the author of a biographical entry about the source of one piece of information concerning their subject. I have not found this particular information on any other website giving biographical details about their subject. How do I do this? I do not know how I will receive your reply and would be grateful if you would send this information to my email address which is —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.139.239 (talk) 18:57, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If you cannot find the information anywhere else, then it is probably untrue and should be removed, as per Wikipedia's guidelines on biographies of living people. Which article are you referring to? I have removed your email; this page is seen by many people every day. In order to help ensure that you see this, I'll leave a message on your talk page. GlassCobra 19:48, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Minor annoyance
I've been trying to figure out why there's an extra ']' after the second external link in Mrs. Parkington. What's the story? Clarityfiend 19:07, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Jonathan •  end transmission  _ 19:09, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Curly braces
What do curly braces {} mean? Specifically, how do I edit the table on the page English unit under the section Wine? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eassin (talk • contribs) 19:45, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You can use Brackets to place a template in an article. places the template Template:Uw-vandalism1 on a page.  Malinaccier (talk • contribs) 19:55, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You can edit the table at Template:English wine casks. Malinaccier (talk • contribs) 19:58, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * For more information about templates and "transclusion", see Help:Template and WP:TRANS. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 20:53, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

List of images
Does anyone know where i can find out which images i have uploaded? Is there a Special page? (note, Special is not a typo). Simply south 21:16, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Go to Special:Logs, click "Upload log" in the drop-down, then type in your username (leave off the "User:") in the User box.  N F 24 (radio me!Editor review) 21:19, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Alternatively, if you don't want to type click on "my contributions", and then click on logs next to "For Simply south", then pick Upload log as above. Angus McLellan (Talk) 00:00, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks. Simply south 19:17, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Deletion log question
Is there a way I can search the deletion log for a certain string of text rather than a title? For example, if I wanted to view a list of all articles that have been deleted whose titles contain "Virginia". Thanks.  N F 24 (radio me!Editor review) 21:17, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Question
Hi my name is Louie Zalar, I bacame disabled April 2005 from an anoxic brain injury, I am disabled and am trying to work from home, I was wondering if I could put my web site on your site? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.121.172.194 (talk) 21:50, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You should wait to create an article about yourself, or something you are involved in. (see WP:AUTO) If you provide a link to the web page, another Wikipedian may create it.  Malinaccier (talk • contribs) 22:12, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, Wikipedia is not your webspace. If you want to write an article about yourself, post on Articles for creation.  N F 24 (radio me!Editor review) 22:24, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Many users host essays on their user page or on their userspace. To do this you first need to create and account, then you can write more about your situation and what kinds of things you would like to share with the world, and then maybe some people would take notice and help build articles on yourself and related medical conditions. -Theanphibian (talk • contribs) 23:44, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia's Donation Tagline
Hello~

I noticed your tagline at the top of your web site, asking for donations. You then have the following quote:

"Knowlege in it's purest form. Thank you." — Anonymous

I thought you should know that there's a major error with that quote ... "it's" should be "its" WITHOUT the apostrophe.

I didn't want your web site to have a major grammar faux pas. I suggest someone change it immediately. :o)

Denise Abbe —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.227.225.137 (talk) 23:26, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi there, I believe the quotes are pulled direct from a donations database, they are comments people can leave when they donate and as such they can't be edited! Any errors are the fault of the donater! Andyreply 23:31, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Images of unknown source
Hi, I have some fair-use questions for you. Say there is an image that many people consider "iconic" of a movement, but there is not a known source of the image? Let's say this one: Image:Nuclear power is not healthy poster.jpg. My first impression would be that it could not be used, since someone clearly does hold the copyright and we are not able to satisfy the attribution requirement of fair use images.

Also, as another unrelated question, is the cc-by-2.5 tag supposed to be used for images that you take yourself, or for images used as fair use? Item in question: Image:Red forest.jpg.

Thanks! -Theanphibian (talk • contribs) 23:29, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I can answer your second one - the cc-by-2.5 tag is only designed to be used for your own work, but if the source licensed it under cc 2.5, then you can tag it as such. Fair use images must be tagged with the appropriate fair use tag - you cannot use cc 2.5 because then it wouldn't have to be fair use. As for the first question, I'll wait for a more experienced user.  N F 24 (radio me!Editor review) 23:44, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay thanks, it looks like the Image:Red forest.jpg will need to be changed to a fair-use tag. -Theanphibian (talk • contribs) 23:57, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikitables
Moved from the Computing reference desk Гed ʃ t ǁ c ɭ 23:42, 11 November 2007 (UTC) Does anyone know how to modify vertical borders? For instance...

and then this...

but how do you do this, without having to style every single cell?

Thanks in advance :)

&mdash; Nova  Dog  &mdash;  ( contribs ) 23:28, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think this would be doable for the entire table, but maybe not for a single column or row. -Theanphibian (talk • contribs) 23:45, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Not possible for a single column at the moment, because there's no wikitext that produces the appropriate HTML without styling each cell separately. It is doable for a row by styling the  mark at the start of the row, but you seem to have found that out already. --ais523 10:51, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Aligning texts in columns, with bulleted list in ONE column, with/without the use of tables?
Hello. I have a rather peculiar problem here: I would like to know if it is possible to align texts in columns, with a bulleted list in ONE column only, but preferably WITHOUT the use of tables. If I compare it with Microsoft Word, then you can type a text, starting from the (left) margin, then use the tab key to jump and that tab can be aligned with a tab marker on the horizontal ruler. But hey, we are not working in Word here... ;-)

Now, to understand what I want to accomplish, take a look at this example. I would like to create conversations in a (Japanese) language course like this:


 * Furonto:   Irasshaimase.
 * Mori:      Konnichiwa. Shinguru ruumu wa arimasu ka.
 * Furonto:   Nannichi kan no go-taizai desu ka.
 * Mori:      Ni-shuukan desu.
 * Furonto:   Hai, taihen yoi shinguru ruumu ga gozaimasu.
 * Mori:      Ryoukin wa ikura desu ka.
 * Furonto:   Hito-ban ichi-man kyuusen-en ni narimasu.
 * Mori:      Sore ni shimasu.
 * Furonto:   Hito-ban ichi-man kyuusen-en ni narimasu.
 * Mori:      Sore ni shimasu.

But I want it to appear more like his:

Here I did use a table ('coz I don't know any other way to do this), but that creates too much space (white lines) between the text lines, because of the use of * that creates the squares (bulleted list). Somehow this also pushes the text down a few pixels... But I don't want to discard those squares... Another problem that arises, also due to this * mark, is the vertical alignment. Since I only want to use the bulleted list in ONE column, the texts in both columns are not properly aligned. Even valign="top" doesn't solve it, or maybe I am using it in the wrong way. Does anyone know how to solve this problem? Prererably in a way that does NOT involve tables...

One way to do it would be using one space at the beginning of each line, creating the following:

Furonto:   Irasshaimase. Mori:      Konnichiwa. Shinguru ruumu wa arimasu ka. Furonto:   Nannichi kan no go-taizai desu ka. Mori:      Ni-shuukan desu. Furonto:   Hai, taihen yoi shinguru ruumu ga gozaimasu. Mori:      Ryoukin wa ikura desu ka. Furonto:   Hito-ban ichi-man kyuusen-en ni narimasu. Mori:      Sore ni shimasu. Furonto:   Hito-ban ichi-man kyuusen-en ni narimasu. Mori:      Sore ni shimasu. Dummy line: Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et             dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem.

But that generates a line around the text and I still don't have the listing blocks at the beginning of each line (bulleted list). I hope I clarified the problem enough, otherwise just ask me if something is still not clear... Thanks a lot in advance! Sjeng, 23:43, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Try this code, ripped off from Template:Reflist:

 Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet....
 * Note that I haven't tested this myself, but it works in Reflist, so should work for you. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 23:52, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I know this isn't of any help, but what's meant by "Hai, taihen yoi shinguru ruumu ga gozaimasu."?
 * Is it はい、大変いいシングルルームがございます. ?
 * Are you trying to say "Yes, we have an awesome single room here." or something else that's beyond my level? If it's the former, you may want to touch up the Japanese just a little. -Theanphibian (talk • contribs) 23:53, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * You are using いい (ii), but that's practically the same as 良い (yoi). Yes, it indeed means something like "we have an excellent single room here." It's not wrong, but very formal Japanese (according my Japanese girlfriend). I took this from Wikibooks, where I am also working on the correct usage and translations of Japanese. I am still working on this part though. ;-) I see you are a level-3 Japanese speaker. Wow, cool. I am not that far yet. Somewhere between 1 and 2 I guess... Wanna help on Wikibooks??? Could use it... Regards, Sjeng 00:18, 12 November 2007 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.93.44.181 (talk)


 * Err... Thank you Hersfold. But uhm... How does it work??? Doesn't seem to be correct anyway, since I see an opening quotation mark (") but not a closing one... Sjeng 00:28, 12 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.93.44.181 (talk)


 * Using CSS columns isn't really a good idea, because currently only some browsers support them, and I don't think the rows would line up properly anyway. You might get a better answer to this on the Village pump technical forum, but this is the best solution (although not a very elegant one) I could come up with that fills all your requirements (except that it uses a table, sorry).
 * Basically it's done by not using list items and adding a column of the bullet images in manually instead, and also setting the table  and   attributes to 0, to make sure the lines are as tight as possible:
 * {| style="width: 80%; background: transparent" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"


 * - valign="top"
 * width="15"|[[Image:Bullet.png]]
 * width="100"| Furonto: || Irasshaimase.
 * - valign="top"
 * [[Image:Bullet.png]] || Mori:   || Konnichiwa. Shinguru ruumu wa arimasu ka.
 * - valign="top"
 * [[Image:Bullet.png]] || Furonto: || Nannichi kan no go-taizai desu ka.
 * - valign="top"
 * [[Image:Bullet.png]] || Mori:   || Ni-shuukan desu.
 * - valign="top"
 * [[Image:Bullet.png]] || Furonto: || Hai, taihen yoi shinguru ruumu ga gozaimasu.
 * - valign="top"
 * [[Image:Bullet.png]] || Mori:   || Ryoukin wa ikura desu ka.
 * - valign="top"
 * [[Image:Bullet.png]] || Furonto: || Hito-ban ichi-man kyuusen-en ni narimasu.
 * -valign="top"
 * [[Image:Bullet.png]] || Mori:   || Sore ni shimasu.
 * - valign="top"
 * [[Image:Bullet.png]] || Dummy line:
 * Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem.
 * }
 * -- DatRoot 22:46, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Now that looks great! Thanks DatRoot. I must say that the use of the bullet is now also under discussion however . But slowly we are getting there now... Guess I will just stick to a table, just like you just made, but without the bullet... Thanks again! Sjeng, 82.93.44.181 23:52, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem, and I don't think it looks so bad without the bullets. You can always space the lines out a little bit to compensate. -- DatRoot 00:51, 15 November 2007 (UTC)