Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2007 October 27

= October 27 =

Casino Royale (1967 soundtrack)
I want to redirect Casino Royale (1967 soundtrack) to Casino Royale (1967 film) as that is the main article and Casino Royale (1967 soundtrack) contains just one poster. But every time I try to do it myself by clicking "Move" it doesn't work. Can someone do it for me ?

Thanks,

Tovojolo 00:03, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I've redirected it. The reason you were having problems is because you were trying to move the page instead of redirect it.  Moving the page basically means changing the title, and you didn't want to do that. - Rjd0060 00:08, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

New lesson at the Virtual Classroom
The current lesson at the Virtual classroom is Scartol, on template use and design. Please come and check it for ease of understanding. It is intended for beginners. Does it make using templates easy? Your feedback is needed.

Thank you.

 Th e Tr ans hu man ist   00:06, 27 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I had to fudge around with some of the code a bit - many of the coding examples weren't displaying due to the and tags. I eventually had to replace a few angle brackets with unicode nonsense to disable the tags - hopefully that won't adversely affect the lesson. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 02:14, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'm done messing with it now. Everything seems to make sense. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 02:35, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Category Mistake
How do I change a spelling error (capitalization) on a category? Would like to change "Category:Companies Based in Orlando, Florida" to "Category:Companies based in Orlando, Florida" The difference is the "B" in based. Thanks FieldMarine 03:04, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * WP:CFD. Dismas |(talk) 03:22, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You can create Category:Companies based in Orlando, Florida and request speedy deletion of Category:Companies Based in Orlando, Florida with Db-c2. PrimeHunter 03:35, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! FieldMarine 03:46, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

How does somebody apply to become administrator?
I have seen the page once but can't remember the name. I don't want to be an administrator but I am curious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Congolese (talk • contribs) 05:25, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You're looking for Requests for adminship. :) GlassCobra 05:37, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * WP:EIW lists everything a person could want to know about administrators. --Teratornis 12:03, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Tachay International Button Co.
Tachay International Button Co.

[[We are specialized in polyester, metal and natural material buttons. We have thousands of button designs in our show rooms in HK and China.  Our buttons, buckles and toggle varieties include the imitation and / or Real materials of the following.            Special buttons, laser side, laser engraved, chalk (basic white or solid colors) horn or rod, wood, leather, metal, coconut shell, sea shell (Agoya, Trocas, Abalone, etc…), nylon, ABS,acrylic, molded and many more. MOB, Rrivershell.

We have served most of the major fashion labels and Brands in this time. Mass production and special designs are our speciality.


 * See: Business FAQ. You may wish to try writing your article on Wikicompany, which wants to build a wiki featuring every company. Wikipedia is not a directory, which means we only have articles about companies which satisfy our notability requirements for corporations. --Teratornis 11:50, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

videos
how do u watch videos on wikipedia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.20.205.43 (talk) 06:57, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You go to Welcome, a database of over a million media files (photographs, diagrams, animations, music, spoken text, video clips, etc.) available for use in any Wikimedia (community) project, to which anyone can contribute. --Teratornis 11:50, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Unexpected change of domain name
Dear Editor, just wish to inform you about a very suspicious change of a domain name to which I have been referring, for instance, in the entry on Tangeh Bolaghi. The address is as follows: . This site was at least until 26 August 2007 the official Pasargadae site, with the official name "Pasargadae World Heritage Site". Now according to Who.is the domain name Pasargadae.org has belonged to the same owner since 16 September 2004; it seems however to have been "updated" on 26 September 2007. The new page to which Pasargadae.org is at present linked is one which I have encountered earlier --- in my search concerning some historical documents, the majority of links on a reputable site turned out all to have the same destination, and this destination coincides with the present destination of "Pasargadae.org". The following address may be revealing of some illegal activities going on with domain names:

http://www.adbaaz.com/?dn=pasargadae.org&flrdr=yes&nxte=jpg (please try this )

I am not familiar with the technical issues related to domain names, but the above suspicious-looking address seems to be using a trick to identify "adbaaz.com" with "pasargadae.org". In fact, if you attempt to link to

http://www.pasargadae.org/ (please try this ),

you will notice firstly, some delay, and secondly, a slight displacement of the frame on your browser (at least if you use FireFox as I do).

For your information, I have made some search on the Internet, from which I conclude that www.pasargadae.org is indeed the name of a reputable organisation to which a large number of references have been made, all related to the real Pasargadae in Iran. Interestingly, the McAfee SiteAdvisor has no information on Pasargadae.org. CallingID (an add-on of FireFox) is unable to verify the site, which implies that some mechanism prevents some vital information about Pasargadae.org to be released. CallingID reports "adbaaz.com" (see above) as being: "Private Registrations Aktien Gesselschaft ... Kingstown"!!! Above all, please note that "org" (to be contrasted with "com") can never be part of the domain name of a commercial company.

I am writing to you in order to request your help in resolving this problem. It seems to me that the problem at hand corresponds to some illegal activities which need to be reported to some appropriate organisations which safeguard the integrity of the Internet; unfortunately, I do not know which organisations have to be contacted. I should therefore greatly appreciate it if you would kindly bring this problem to the attention of specialists dealing with similar problems. In the meantime, I have added notes, both in Tangeh Bolaghi and in Pasargadae, warning the readers of the present problem with the site pasargadae.org. With thanks in advance, --BF 07:51, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The Internet fraud article may give some useful background information. --Teratornis 12:01, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

adding topics to Wikipedia
Authentic Home Stay programs – Thailand

Introduction

Many mindsets define what a “home stay” program is. The following searches for a definition are indicative of this dilemma.

“Home stay - a visit to somebody’s home in a foreign country, often a stay by an exchange student in a family’s home (informal)” Encarta® World English Dictionary. From a Wikipedia search of home stay definition [found as a single word, ‘homestay’ – “A traditional practice in the West, especially in Australia, Britain, New Zealand and Canada, homestay provides economical lodging, meals, laundry and other creature comforts for tourists and students. It is an inexpensive learning experience to sight-see, soak in the local culture and interact with people.”]. Google has multiple home stay references, Thai and English, with the term as either one or two words. Given significant changes over the last few years in the scope and objectives of home stay programs worldwide, the home stay definitions may often fall short of actual experiences available. Homestay is also termed Homestay…with a capital ‘H.’

In Thailand home stay programs span the following classifications: Bed and Breakfast; short-long term rentals; resort home stay; senior care home stay; Agra-farm home stay; Eco home stay; culinary home stay; spiritual home stay; massage home stay; sexed-based home stay; and herbal home stay. There are also other classifications to be found.

The following definition of “Authentic Home Stay” is presented to assist the tour provider, visitor and general public to have a clearer understanding of what an authentic home stay program is.

Home stay (also Homestay): An extended stay in a local private home where the visitor’s main objective is to learn about the local culture and customs through cultural immersion. The home stay operator’s objective is community development and maintenance of their traditional ways of living.

Authentic home stay programs incorporate the following principals and standards: 1. A community based tourism approach to development that incorporates program and cultural sustainability, economic assistance - not dependence, with community development as a primary objective and economic development as secondary, but essential; 2. Internationally recognized standards of operation, visitor guidelines and program evaluations used to ensure visitor and community satisfaction. ≤→ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.113.56.73 (talk) 09:14, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * While I'm sure your intentions are good, this page is for asking questions about how to use Wikipedia. If you feel that your entry has enough notability to deserve a mention in Wikipedia, feel free to submit your suggestion to articles for creation. You may also wish to see the following: Cite your sources, Manual of style, Layout guide, First article, Article development and How to edit for assistance. Cheers, Ariel  ♥  Gold  09:41, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Quotes in references
I've come across an issue with another editor who simply insists on including a quote in each and every reference that he puts in. At times, these quotes can run into 2 or 3 sentences. This is done for even a very minor reference such as one for Ben Affleck, reference #5, or all of the references on the Dan Antonioli article. His explanation is two-fold: a) the reader needs to see the reference as it appears in situ (which makes no sense to me since to see the reference in situ requires one to go to the site to view it). b) the citation template has a space for a quote.

My issue is that this practice is usually unnecessary as well as functioning to bulk out the page with unnecessary information in the reference section. In some cases, the references end up having an excessive amount of info in the citation yet leaves the article bereft of content.

Please help on how to approach this and what Wikipedia considers reason to include a quote in a reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wildhartlivie (talk • contribs) 09:20, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This is interesting. While it is true that the template does have a "quote" parameter, this seems to be used mainly to convey short, concise items, and not used as these examples are using it. The examples you gave are copying and pasting word-for-word, the first paragraph of the reference, which is really quite redundant to me, and it seems that especially for uncontroversial information (such as who someone's brother is, what job someone holds) it is really unnecessary. WP:CITE, WP:FOOT, WP:CIT, none of these guidelines, style guides, or policies say they must be used, should be used, or are preferred. I personally find the extensive commentary distracting, and redundant. References are to prove what you've said. The reference link is right there in the reference for someone who wishes to go read more, but it really seems that to quote the entire first paragraph of every source is just... well, to be redundant, redundant. I'd suggest that you inquire about this on Wikipedia talk:Citing sources, or perhaps on the BLP noticeboard, at WP:BLPN. Ariel  ♥  Gold  09:36, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * When guidelines are insufficient to resolve a particular style case, one can look to featured articles for guidance. Does this style of quoting appear in any featured article? If not, then it will probably have to go away before the article can be featured. See WP:EIW for more information. The ultimate goal for Wikipedia is for every article to eventually attain featured article quality, and every editor should at least acknowledge that goal and have some idea what it means. In the near term, of course, we know the vast majority of articles aren't going to become that good for quite some time. --Teratornis 11:41, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The practice of including the relevant portions of a source within a reference is a model practice that should be encouraged and used more extensively by other editors. In addition to the cite template requesting the parameter, inclusion of the relevant cited text provides the clearest possible documentation of the statement being sourced, without requiring a reader to hunt through the source document. I have on many occasions tried to trace back a source from a reference, only to be forced to read through every sentence of the source document in its entirety, without any certainty of what material was being cited. For those sources that retain information for short periods of time online, especially some major newspapers, the cited text may be the only way most readers will ever see the source material. User:Wildhartlivie offers no reasonable explanation for why the practice should be prohibited other than the fact that he has decide that its use is "unnecessary". See New York City for an example of a featured article that takes excellent advantage of this feature. Alansohn 04:13, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I have indeed offered reasoning for why I believe the use of this sort of "quote" is inappropriate. I didn't say it should be prohibited, I said the manner in which these quotes are being used is not what is intended for the quote function. Using information from a source to craft new text is entirely different from pasting entire sections of a page into a citation template. Besides the fact that it's bulky, distracting, and excessive, very little of the information contained in them is being utilized. Those sections pasted are copyrighted and the quote options are not being used in the manner they are intended. I didn't just up and decide it was unnecessary. I sought out opinions at two relevant resources within Wikipedia for opinions on this matter and have approached another. The majority opinion seems to be that it's at least bordering on copyright infringement, that it's a rather backhanded attempt to host the article, and its unnecessary. That is why references have an "accessed on" date, to show when it was available, should it no longer be. I did look at the New York City article. There are brief quotes in 4 references - out of 154. That is not what is going on here, which is why I've brought it up. 4 out of 4 references in one article have more quoted material pasted in the reference than the material in the entire article. Refer to the 1st sentence below the edit box: "Content that violates any copyright will be deleted" and to the policy in Copyrights. I am doing exactly what Wikipedia asks us to doWildhartlivie 08:20, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Redirecting a Page
How do you redirect a Page ? Tovojolo 10:33, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hello Tovojolo, you can review Redirect, but the basics are there should be a good reason for you to redirect a current (existing) article, especially if it contains information. If you find two articles that contain basically the same information (known as a fork), you may wish to get some help determining which article should be the one to redirect if you're unsure. If you're wishing to create a new page to redirect it (such as a common spelling error, or alternate name) to an existing article, the redirect instructions will explain the proper way to create redirects. Hope this helps! Ariel  ♥  Gold  10:59, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Tags for disputed reliability and citations whose interpretetation is disputed
Is there some template for indicating by an inline tag that the reliability of a specific cited source is disputed? Template:Primarysources is not very helpful if there are a dozen reliable sources referenced and some editor adds a statement sourced with a dubious reference. Similarly, is there a template for indicating inline that it is disputed that the cited source actually supports the statement it is a citation for? Template:Citecheck is unpleasantly unspecific. --Lambiam 10:56, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest using the Verify credibility and/or the Failed verification templates. If that's not exactly what you needed, you can look at the other inline templates, here. Cheers! Ariel  ♥  Gold  11:06, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Also see WP:TEMPLATE and WP:EIW. --Teratornis 11:30, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. --Lambiam 12:48, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

mentallity
how to thinck and act in a critical situation —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.48.81.196 (talk) 12:50, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This is the page to request assistance with using Wikipedia. Your comment does not appear to be a question about Wikipedia, and doesn't seem to be a question, so perhaps you were looking for the Mentality article? If you have a question about using Wikipedia, please feel free to reply and clarify your request. Thanks! Ariel  ♥  Gold  12:52, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Please note that Wikipedia is not a how-to guide, so if you are looking for tips on your question, you'd be better off somewhere else.  N F 24 (radio me!Editor review) 13:07, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The question is vague. The answer would depend on many factors that the question does not specify: the kind of situation, how much time is available to think before acting, and so on. Critical thinking is a generally good way to think, but in emergencies there may not be time to think, and a person would have to fall back on training to meet a specific kind of emergency. Pasting the question straight into Google Search yields some interesting results: . Of course our hard-working Help desk volunteers think and act in something like a critical situation, each time they try to answer a question. Each question is sort of like a pop quiz. We have instructions to help the volunteers, but learning to answer questions here requires experience on Wikipedia, and practice at answering questions. --Teratornis 16:19, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Cladogram
Is there any way to make a decent cladogram (or any other dendrogram BTW) using Wiki Markup? Thx Aelwyn 14:52, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Not that I've ever seen. Most people create them using an external program and upload the image onto the article.  Sorry. - Rjd0060 15:52, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * WP:EIW should summarize the current state of the art for producing graphics for Wikipedia. mw:Extension:GraphViz could probably generate cladograms, but it is not running on Wikipedia. (EasyTimeline is running on Wikipedia, and maybe you could use it to generate something resembling a cladogram, although that does not seem to be the designer's intent.) Try googling for: to see some examples of cladograms people have generated with GraphViz. --Teratornis 16:29, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * We do have Template:Clade, but I'm not sure if you count its output as "decent" or not. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 22:36, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't know if this helps, but I imagine you could produce a cladogram using whatever method was used for the family tree in this section. Just a thought. AndyJones 10:02, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Spelling error
Garrett Argianas (Weekend meteorologist during early 2000s,went to WVIT in New Britain/Hartford, Connecticut, now chief meteorologist at WTIC-TV (Fox Hartford)
 * You can go fix it yourself, just go to WTIC-TV and click "edit this page" at the top.  N F 24 (radio me!Editor review) 15:43, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

halloween?
good morring, i was wondering if someone could help me, as im a bit confused, can someone tell me what the correct calling of halloween in Romania ? i have been told that it is \Sanhaim but this word belongs to the kelts, and im sure romaina is a part of russia or germany, so how would calling it sanhaim be correct ? their must be another name for this am i correct? im so confused lol, thanks fantum —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.119.17.39 (talk) 19:00, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Have you tried the Language section of Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in answering knowledge questions there; this help desk is only for questions about using Wikipedia. For your convenience, here is the link to post a question there: click here. I hope this helps.  N F 24 (radio me!Editor review) 19:05, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Pic upload
Hi, again. I'd like to know how to upload pics? Thanks, S.C.Ruffeyfan —Preceding comment was added at 19:01, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Click "Upload file" on the left side of the page, under "toolbox" or go to Upload.  N F 24 (radio me!Editor review) 19:06, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

text collisions
How does Wikipedia deal with two people trying to edit the same document at the same time? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.131.188.74 (talk) 19:24, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * See Help:Edit conflict, or our article on Edit conflicts which deals with the issue as it applies to wikis in general.-- VectorPotentialTalk 19:25, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Template
I would like to add a line to a template that I created that says something to the effect of "If you have a questions or concerns, feel free to contact me," but I don't know how to make it automatically use the talk page of the person placing the template. Is there a way to do this? Thank you, Falconusp t c 20:21, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Not without making the user who places the template give it as a parameter, which would make the template much harder to use. (The ability to make this possible has been requested, but not implemented yet, and there isn't a sign that it will be implemented in the near future.) --ais523 20:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh well, I guess I'll just have to go without for now. Thanks for getting back to me, Falconusp <b style="color:#000000;">t</b> <b style="color:#000000;">c</b> 20:42, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Dealing with minor factual changes
How should I deal with minor changes made by IP addresses? For example, changing a year from 2012 to 2011 for a sentence that does not have a source and therefore cannot be verified. If it were a user, I could judge their credibility based on their past contributions, but since it is an IP I cannot. However, I also don't want to revert an edit simply because there was no edit summary or source cited. — Yavoh 21:00, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I would ask them for their reasons for changing it. If they don't respond or give you a rationale like "I felt like it", then it is probably vandalism and you should revert.  N F 24 (radio me!Editor review) 21:03, 27 October 2007 (UTC)


 * In such cases, whether you decide to revert or not, it's often a good idea to post on the article's talk page asking other editors to review the changes (preferably with a link to the diff in question). If you do revert, make sure you use an informative and non-biting edit summary such as, say: "Reverting uncited changes, see talk page. If you believe the changes to be correct, please restore them with citations to appropriate sources or discuss the matter on the talk page."  —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 22:19, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

invisible bullets
is there any way I can make an indented unordered list as I would with * but hide the bullet? I know how to with CSS and HTML but I don't think this works in this software? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Windin22 (talk • contribs) 21:16, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, you could use a colon, but that would not indent the same space as a normal bullet; you would need to use several. Why would you not want the bullet? i (talk) 21:17, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If you're already familiar with CSS, you could try playing with your own personal css to change the way wikipedia is displayed to you. -- VectorPotentialTalk 21:19, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

You can, in fact, use most types of HTML and CSS markup on Wikipedia. For example, this markup: produces this: <ul style="list-style: none"> <li>Look ma', no bullets!</li> <li style="list-style: circle">Woo, circles...</li> <li style="list-style: square">...and squares.</li> <li>Back to no bullets again.</li> </ul> —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 22:30, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi thanks Ilmari, I had not tried and it does work in Firefox but not in Internet Explorer. However this:

<style type="text/css"> ul.disc {list-style-type: disc} ul.circle {list-style-type: circle} ul.square {list-style-type: square} ul.none {list-style-type: none}

<li>Coffee</li> <li>Tea</li> <li>Coca Cola</li> </ul>

<li>Coffee</li> <li>Tea</li> <li>Coca Cola</li> </ul>

<li>Coffee</li> <li>Tea</li> <li>Coca Cola</li> </ul>

<li>Coffee</li> <li>Tea</li> <li>Coca Cola</li> </ul>

does work fine in IE on a non-Wiki webpage. Wikispaces uses > followed by a space then your text to give an unordered list without the bullets but that does not work here. Thanks everyone and if you have any ideas how IE could be forced to work do let me know. I tried "list-style-type" but it did not help.


 * The difficulties you see are probably related to conflicts with Wikipedia's default style rules, such as the one at /skins-1.5/monobook/main.css which says:


 * In particular, I suspect that the  property is overriding anything you set using   only.  I don't have IE on this computer, but in Firefox at least the following works:


 * producing:

<ul style="list-style-image: none; list-style-type: circle"> <li>List</li><li>with</li><li>circles.</li> </ul>
 * whereas without the " " it won't:

<ul style="list-style-type: circle"> <li>No circles,</li><li>just plain old</li><li>bullet.gif.</li> </ul>
 * —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 14:45, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi Ilmari, absolutely correct, IE can't cope with the conflict between  in the Wiki CSS and the   being set. If  is set to "none", then I can use   to display circles, no bullet or whatever, even in IE. Thanks. -- Windin22 21:11, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

How Do I rate My Article?
I've written an article called Ai Xin Jue Luo YuHuan, ithas been recgnized as part of the biography project and the China project, I've recently joined the China project (or at least I think I have by adding my name on the list). So now I've done everything I know but I don't know how to rate it, please help. Eisenhower 21:20, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It depends. You can rate it as Stub-, Start-, or B-Class without any discussion, but in order to rate it as a Good article or featured article, you must list it at WP:GAC or WP:FAC respectively. Usually, each WikiProject has its own quality scale. To rate an article as A-Class, a peer review is usually required.  N F 24 (radio me!Editor review) 21:28, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Deleted Contributions
Deleted contributions have been around for a while now, has anyone made a deleted edit counter yet?-- VectorPotentialTalk 21:32, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Enter http://en.wikipedia.org/w/query.php?what=contribcounter&titles=User:USERNAME in your address bar. It will give your total edit count including deleted contribs. For example, for me, it gives 3319 edits, while Interiot gives 2935 edits.  N F 24 (radio me!Editor review) 21:44, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Be sure to replace "USERNAME" at the end with your own (or another's) username, then look between the tags at the bottom to find the magic number. It should be the exact one in your (or their) preferences.  N F 24 (radio me!Editor review) 00:11, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't say that it won't work for you, but a note of caution: that counter is off by thousands on my count.--Fuhghettaboutit 22:37, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Use This counter (Kates Tool). It is the most accurate one I've seen.  It does list number of deleted contributions, in addition to the regular ones.  You can always click "my preferences" at the top and it lists your number of edits, including deleted contributions.  Kates tool total is 48 less than my preferences count. - Rjd0060 23:33, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * For me, Kates Tool and Wannabe Kate are the same in accuracy, both falling short by over 100 of my actual edit count. Preferences is the best for your actual edit count, but the other two will show you full details, but do not expect full accuracy. —  j acĸrм  ( talk ) 01:13, 28 October 2007 (UTC)