Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 April 28

= April 28 =

best rated audio visual system
worlds best rated companies manufacturing audio/ visual systems .eg dvd player ,amplifiers, speakers etcMONTY---        —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.94.96.66 (talk) 00:55, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Please do NOT include contact details in your questions. We are unable to provide answers by any off-wiki medium and this page is highly visible across the internet. The details have been removed, but if you wish for them to be permanently removed from the page history, email [mailto:oversight-l@lists.wikimedia.org this address].--— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  00:59, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hello. This page is for asking questions about using Wikipedia. You may get a response at the reference desk, which is for general knowledge questions. However, even there, I doubt you will get a definitive answer. Your question is very broad and seeks a concrete answer to a question that by its nature invites subjective responses.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 01:33, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Edit count tool limit
Is there a way to change the 45000 edit limit of the edit statistics tool. It will only fetch the last 45,000 edits. --TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 03:53, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You should probably ask the tool's operator, User:Interiot. It probably cuts off where it does to avoid murdering the servers, in which case the answer would be no - I get an error message saying "Too many pages fetched. Terminating." Your query takes forever to load as it is. Another solution, of course, would be to stop being such an over-achiever. ;-) Hers fold  (t/a/c) 04:00, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Not as comprehensive as Interiot's tool, but it's worth noting that query.php doesn't have such a limit. Someguy1221 (talk) 04:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I just see a bunch of code at the alternate tool. Did you give me the correct link.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 07:49, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's the right link...Just like the this incredibly useful tool, query.php outputs its data in a format that is probably not meant to be read by actual humans. Very easy for bots, scripts and the like to comprehend, though. The edit count is bracketed by . Someguy1221 (talk) 08:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the alternate tool. The detail of the other tool is important.  I would just like to see it for all my edits rather than just the last 45000.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 23:05, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Number of frogs in an average pond
I'm tring to find out infromation on the numbr of frogs thta live in an average pond? Any idea where to look. Pls help me cause I cant fnd it on ur website —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimjones0000005 (talk • contribs) 04:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd be curious to know what an "average" pond is. I guess that would require counting the frogs in every pond, and computing the mean. Given the large number of ponds, that could be difficult. Would we only count adult frogs, and not tadpoles? What happens if a bird eats a frog while we are counting? There might also be some problem with deciding whether a given body of water is a pond or a lake. Anyway, this general knowledge question belongs on the Reference desk rather than the Help desk (this page), which is for questions about using Wikipedia. You could also try . Good luck. --Teratornis (talk) 05:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The Science reference desk would probably be where you'd want to go. Z i g g y   S a w  d u s t  01:20, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Template
Are there any templates (tags) that warn against copying material from another source? Yohan euan o4 (talk) 07:01, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes. For an article, the list of cleanup tags suggests, or for blatant violations . To warn the user that posted the material, the list of user warning tags offers . Confusing Manifestation (Say hi!) 07:28, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Yohan euan o4 (talk) 18:06, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

help
I work for an overseas company and my boss had recently asked to post an introduction about the company (EMKC, CMKC). However, when i tried, it was rejected by the Wikipedia admins...

Can you tell me what i'm doing wrong, or what to do correctly so i can make this post because I see company profiles of companies all the time on wikipedia... Thank You... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yonigs (talk • contribs) 08:21, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Creation of articled by the companies involved is generally discouraged due to a conflict of interest. Also, articles have to mention reliable sources in order to show that the topic is verifiable and notable. You may also want to read about creating your first article to help producing articles in the future. Hope this helps. Gazimoff Write Read 09:50, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Crystal_Clear_app_fonts.svg|20px]] Please use a descriptive title in future questions.
 * [[Image:Signature_icon.png]] Please sign your post by typing four tildes ( ~ ) or clicking the signature button above the edit box (as shown to the left ←). Do NOT sign in articles. ...... Dendodge . Talk Help 11:38, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Please read all of WP:BFAQ before starting an article about your company. --Teratornis (talk) 15:16, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Map co-ordinates link doesn't seem to work
The article on Boeing Everett Factory gives the building's co-ordinates at the top right. Clicking that link takes me to a Wikimedia tools page that should enable me to view the building on Google Earth and other tools. However, something appears to be broken. The co-ordinates given are all zeroes, meaning that the none of the map links work. Anyone? --Richardrj talkemail 09:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I fixed it. Someone added a + in where there shouldn't be one. -mattbuck (Talk) 10:08, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for trying, but it's still not right. Clicking the Google Earth link on the GeoHack page just takes me to some residential area, not to the largest building in the world :) --Richardrj talkemail 10:25, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Then whoever put the coordinates in got them wrong. -mattbuck (Talk) 10:45, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I realised that. Ah well, thanks again for your efforts. --Richardrj talkemail 10:48, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I fixed the coordinates. They should now be correct. Spencer  T♦C 10:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much. --Richardrj talkemail 12:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

"New Section" vs. "+"
On my preferences I have the check next to the gadget making use of the "+" instead of the "new section". However, on Talk:Orontes River, I still see "new section", even though I checked the gadget weeks ago. I purged my cache, but still got the "new section". Is this a bug? Spencer T♦C 10:53, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It is suspect you haven't clear your cache all, try to purge again, i have no problem in my browser. --Aleen f 1 10:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, it's probably cached somewhere - might be at your ISP if you cannot change it. If you manually add ? to the url then you should get an uncached version. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * When you purge, you are purging the current page, not your entire cache. Disable the setting, purge, enable the setting, then purge.  --—  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  12:02, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Grrr... note to Spencer as well as the help desk volunteers - purging is not the same as clearing your cache. Gadget850 uses the correct link above, although he's still using the wrong terminology. "Purging" refers to WP:PURGE, which clears Wikipedia's server's cache of a single page. "Bypassing" or "clearing your cache" is WP:CACHE, a different page and different thing entirely, which removes all cached versions of all pages from a single user's browser. This is often what is needed to correct issues brought up by preferences and monobook changes. Purging usually only helps with templates that haven't updated on a page they're being used on, and other things that likewise would affect everyone. Please, to avoid confusing those that come here for help, use the right terms! Thank you. (Pet peeve) Hers fold  (t/a/c) 12:15, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I did that and it's working now. Sorry Hersfold. Spencer  T♦C 23:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia Front Page
Hi. My Wikipedia front page is stuck on 1 Jan 2008. Can you tell me how I can fix it so that it updates every day, please. Thanks Peter203.164.170.205 (talk) 12:25, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If you're sure the page you're looking at is actually the current version of the main page as opposed to an archive of the January 1st page, you could try clearing your cache. Sometimes the database throws outdated revisions at you, clearing your cache usually solves this.--VectorPotential Talk 12:33, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi. I experience a similar problem when I am logged out and am trying to view the current reference desk, although not as severe as you described. When this happens, the RefDesk is stuck on a day or two prior to the current version, even if the computer I'm using hadn't previously looked at that particular previous version. I either solve this problem by logging in or by checking the history and going to the latest version diff, but this might not work for you as the Main page is transcluded. Thanks. ~ A H  1 (TCU) 21:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Verfying a Source
I'm wondering if this website counts as a reliable source.

http://www.thelostworlds.net/index.html

There is some self-supplied material, but all material not taken directly from the game series the website is about is noted as such, Beyond that the site is largely an archive of deleted material from the game series and such an archive is being used as a source in an article. So, would this site count as a reliable source, as I'm only citing the game material and not the website's original content? The Clawed One (talk) 12:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You might find some guidance at WP:EIW. I'm not sure many Help desk volunteers could tell just by looking at that site; some analysis would probably be required, by someone with knowledge of the site's subject (I've never heard of that game, so I have no idea what would be a reliable source about it). However, on first glance, the site doesn't look to me as obviously "reliable" as the New York Times, the Times of London, and other major news outlets. Professional news organizations have standards for fact checking and so on. They can make mistakes, but you have some idea what you're dealing with. With a random site, we have no idea whether it has any fact-checking standards in place. --Teratornis (talk) 16:43, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia's policies are of not help to me at all, to me there's just a bunch of confusing doublespeak. I've looked at the source pages before and have no clue how they relate to me. The Clawed One (talk) 18:00, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You could try taking it to the reliable sources noticeboard and get them to argue about it there. Confusing Manifestation (Say hi!) 23:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that Wikipedia's manual pages tend to be less than crystal clear on a first reading, but if you just keep reading them day after day, eventually they will start to make sense. At first they are hard to understand because you won't know all the jargon. It's like you have to read every page before you can understand the first page. Just keep reading the help pages and following the links. It has to eventually make sense, or else Wikipedia could not possibly work. Everything people do here, they learned directly or indirectly from the manuals. Except for the tiny handful of people who made things up. But even they usually only made up a little bit per person, and most of the rest they learned by reading the manuals that other people wrote. Wikipedia is perhaps the world's largest do it yourself project, so everything depends on users being willing to read the instructions and figure them out. This takes a lot of effort, but I think it's worth doing, because the result looks pretty impressive. --Teratornis (talk) 04:29, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

SPL records
On Saturday, the Hearts player Scott Robinson became the youngest ever player in the SPL. I have edited the statistics page, and gave a link to the Hearts website where it confirms his age (although it only describes him as the youngest ever Hearts player. I haven't found an actual source stating he is youngest ever SPL player, but he is a month younger than the previous record holder, Jamie McLuskey!)

I don't know how to link his name to his actual wikipedia page though, so when you click on it, you are taken to this page - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Robinson. His actual page is here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Robinson_%28footballer%29

Can some kind person please amend this for me

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rossi 1983 (talk • contribs) 14:27, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed. You wanted a piped link. Algebraist 14:40, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Scott Robinson is a disambiguation page since there are several persons with this name— Scott Robinson (footballer) can easily be added. There is a bigger problem, as the article Scott Robinson (footballer) does not assert notability.  The article has no references that explains why this person, out of thousands of sports personages is notable enough to include in Wikipedia.  Please read Notability.  If this is not fixed quickly, the article will get deleted.  --—  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  14:43, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the replies

I never created the Scott Robinson page, but when I found it thought they should be linked.

Is being the youngest ever player in the SPL not a suitable enough reason to have a page? The previous record holder, Jamie McCluskey, has a page, when nothing else of note has happened in his career —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rossi 1983 (talk • contribs) 14:50, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * See Notability (people). --Teratornis (talk) 15:14, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Rossi 1983— please sign your comments. Yes- Shughamster created the page.  See Other stuff exists.  If Jamie McCluskey is not up to par, it is danger of deletion.  --—  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  15:21, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I updated that disambiguation page, but the article really needs work. --—  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  15:57, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Boxes
Hi. Literally, in the last few minutes I signed up to Wikipiedia. Do you know them boxes with the pictures of brooms or !s or ?s. Are users allowed to make them. I think I should make one to put on my userpage to tell people I'm on a shared network. SimsFan (talk) 15:43, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Those are amboxes, and are generally used for cleanup notices in articles, but you can certainly create your own using that template. The instructions on that page should show you how. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 15:48, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank You very much. SimsFan (talk) 15:54, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * See WP:EIW and WP:EIW. --Teratornis (talk) 16:37, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

deletion
my page I created was deleted, becasue it contained copyrighted info, how can I un delete my file to put in un copyrighted info and start again ?

regards

LA08 (talk) 18:20, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If you can tell me the name of the page, I can help you find the admin who deleted your page. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 18:22, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It was Ian Haig deleted by User:Aleta. Woody (talk) 18:26, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It was a copy of http://www.ianhaig.net/Biography.html, thus it was deleted as a copyright violation. --—  Gadget850 (Ed)  <sup style="color:darkblue;">talk  -  20:37, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

You can just create the page again in your own words (not copying word-for-word from other pages). It doesn't need to be undeleted. Ansbaradigeidfran (talk) 20:43, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

articles
how do i create an aricle lets say about my school or even about an organization iam in here thats not offical yet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kredkids (talk • contribs) 20:30, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Symbol move vote.svg|20px]] Please see Your first article.


 * 1) Make sure the subject is notable enough to have their own article.
 * 2) Find references
 * 3) Make sure no article on the subject exists under a different title by typing the subject into the search box to the left (←) and clicking 'Search'
 * 4) Type the page name in the search box to the left (←) and click 'Go'
 * 5) Click 'Create this page'
 * 6) Create the article, including all your references, making sure you adhere to the Manual of Style and our article layout
 * 7) Be aware that Wikipedia deletes thousands of new articles for failing to adhere to our policies and guidelines. New articles by new users are at extra risk of deletion, due to new users' unfamiliarity with our rules. Consider gaining experience by editing existing articles before attempting to create new ones.  weburiedoursecrets inthegarden  20:48, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Did I understand that you want to write an article about an organization that has not been officially created yet? Such an organization is surely not yet notable yet. To post such an article you would have to wait until it has independent press coverage. —teb728 t c 21:09, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If so, remember that Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, and future events should not be reported on unless they are referenced.  weburiedoursecrets  inthegarden  21:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Multiple images, single caption
Is there a way to group a number (say 4) images under one caption? I'd like them laid out vertically on the right of the page, like, but with only one caption box encompassing all of them. Ansbaradigeidfran (talk) 20:37, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Try Multiple image or Infobox Awards. --—  Gadget850 (Ed)  <sup style="color:darkblue;">talk  -  20:51, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Multiple image did the trick: Thanks, Ansbaradigeidfran (talk) 21:02, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Those status thingies
Hi. Does anyone know where to find, I think it's a template, that you put on your userpage? It shows whether you are online or offline, depending on when you log in or log out of Wikipedia. What's the best one that I can use? I want one that is as close as possible to automaticly updating the status bar right when you log in, and when you log out or close the Wikipedia window. Is there one that works with IE and Windows? Does it give you extra cookies? Anyway, if I get one, it's one of those things that says something along the lines of "This user is ONLINE " or "This user is OFFLINE "? Also, it should update automaticly so that I wouldn't have to change it myself. Does the indicator strip's changes show up in an edit history, and do I change my monobook to use it? It should not require logging onto any site other than the English Wikipedia. Thanks. ~ A H  1 (TCU) 20:54, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Erm, I think User:Misza13 runs a bot that does it; here is how to get the code.  weburiedoursecrets  inthegarden  21:09, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi. Um, that page apparently says that it does not work under IE 7, I'm using IE but I don't know which version, and also I fixed the POV-laden gibberish that used to be in that box (Internet Exploder, Winblows Vista, nobody cares). Should I try it anyway, or is there the risk that it will mis-inform users about whether or not I'm actually online? Also, will it go on the right-top corner of my userpage? Thanks. ~ A H  1 (TCU) 21:29, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I've got one that is very good - it was designed by User:Chetblong and adapted by User:Basketball110. The only down bit is that you have to work it manually - by typing "in", "out" or "busy". It can always work unlike statusbot which breaks down sometimes - says you're offline when you're online. This one does go in the top-right corner as well. Type

Or you can go to my userpage to check it out. Fattyjwoods ( Push my button  ) 04:13, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * oops I think this is the same one weburiedoursecrets... was talking about. Fattyjwoods  ( Push my button  ) 04:18, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

"Suggestions" in search are now not my previous searches.
Until recently typing in the WP search box brought up a list of my previous searches which matched the letters I had just typed. Now anything typed in the box brings up a list of about ten matching suggestions which in general are not things I have searched for. Is it me and my computer or has WP's coding been changed?--SilasW (talk) 21:37, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Pretty recent change, the search box will now include suggestions based on recent searches from other users. If you'd rather it didn't do this, you can disable it in the "Search" tab of Special:Preferences (the "Disable AJAX suggestions" box will turn this off, if checked). – Luna Santin  (talk) 21:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that did it.--SilasW (talk) 13:33, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Top of page notices
I would like to know the name of the page where you request notices to go on the top of the main page, watchlist etc. Anyone know? I've seen it before, but do not know what it was called. STORMTRACKER   94  Go Irish! 21:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The two most commonly used are MediaWiki talk:Sitenotice and Template talk:Watchlist-notice (editprotected can be a useful template to attract attention, when asking for a change). I'm not a regular editor in that area, so can't give you much advice beyond a starting direction. :) – Luna Santin  (talk) 21:47, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Edit This Page tab
I know that I can turn the "edit this page" tab back into a + sign by going into preferences and changing it back. However, I don't see an option for this in my prefs. I just see an option to change the "new section" tab on my talk page to a +, but nothing that will change "edit this page" into a + sign. What gives? Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 21:54, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * "edit this page" has always (at least a year) been "edit this page" never a + sign. So there is not a mechanism for changing it "back" to a + sign. On talk pages there was until very recently a "+" tab right next to the "edit this page" tab. This was recently changed to "add section" and a preference to change it back to a + sign. Sbowers3 (talk) 22:06, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I was told that I can change "edit this page" to something else. Is there an easy way to change it? I have so many tabs now that my "unlink" tab isn't showing up (the tabs don't all fit in my browser window anymore), and I'd really like to get "unlink" back. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 22:13, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I fixed it. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 22:19, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Becoming A Project Member
How does one become a member of a wikiproject? Do you apply or just add the category to your userpage? Fribbler (talk) 23:02, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Check the project portal- there is usually a member list you can add your name to. Check the discussions on the project page and participate.  If you have trouble finding a particular project to join, let us know.  --—  Gadget850 (Ed)  <sup style="color:darkblue;">talk  -  23:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks gadget850, it is Wikiproject Ireland I wish to join. (WP:IE) Fribbler (talk) 23:19, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The first section is "Participants" with a link to the members page. --—  Gadget850 (Ed)  <sup style="color:darkblue;">talk  -  00:31, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * So do I just throw my name in there and its done, I'm a member? Excuse the, perhaps basic, questions; I'm an enthusiastic newbie :-) Fribbler (talk) 00:36, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, there is the small matter of the initiation fee (payable to me).... Aw, nevermind, for you I'll waive it. Just sign up to a Wikiproject and you're in. --barneca (talk) 00:41, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

The cheque is in the post barneca :-) So do you mean I just add my name and thats that? I know it's informal, but is that it in terms of ettiquette? Fribbler (talk) 00:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Usually, yes. They might also have a userbox template you can put on your user page to announce your status. I suppose I could look to see if that is the case. Also see WP:PROJGUIDE if you want more details than you probably want about WikiProjects work. --Teratornis (talk) 04:33, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Oddly, WikiProject Ireland/Templates does not list a userbox template, but WikiProject Ireland/Members shows User WPIreland. You could put that on your user page. --Teratornis (talk) 04:50, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * After ten good edits, you may display a wee image of a bottle of Irish whisky. (If you choose to. It's optional.) Wanderer57 (talk) 05:06, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Cancel button on edit page
My apologies if this is the wrong place to suggest this. There are 3 buttons on an "edit" page. "Save", "Show Changes", and "Preview." There is a check box for the cancel his or her changes. I suggest that it be replaced with a button just like the other three options. It's a bit like a brake in a car. The driver must know where it is and be able to hit it without any effort. I didn't see the "Cancel" check box until after I made some mistakes.

Ephraimh (talk) 23:47, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * From what I can see, "Cancel" is a link that takes you back to the page you were editing - there's no checkbox that I can find, or need to click to make it work. If you ever need to cancel what you're doing, you can also just click the "article" tab at the top of your page, or "Edit this page" to reset the edit box. <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:blue">Hers <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:gold">fold  (t/a/c) 23:51, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If you want to propose a change you can go to the village pump.--Sunny910910 (talk 23:57, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Downloading SVG files
I am trying to download an SVG file so that I can open it up in a vector editor and edit for my own uses. I read the terms of use and it states that I am allowed to do this as long as I do not use it for a flash video. I am following the directions on how to open an svg in an external editor provided on the page but I still cannot get it to work. The specific file is the world map located here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BlankMap-World6-Equirectangular.svg Can someone help me download this file please! (P.S. I am using a mac computer) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dprdoran (talk • contribs) 23:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If it's trying to download index.php when you use the external editor link then try opening and saving that, there should be a save image feature in your browser, however I'm not a mac user so I ain't sure where it is! Then open the image you saved in your editor. Andyreply 00:33, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You might find something useful under WP:EIW. --Teratornis (talk) 04:13, 29 April 2008 (UTC)