Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 August 10

= August 10 =

Experienced editor required
I require an experienced editor, especially one who is very familiar with citations to answer my question:

Would this article) be considered a reliable source for citation?Ardeshire Babakanاردشیر بابکان (talk) 00:01, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yep, those look just fine. They are both WP:RELIABLE. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe they are reliable. Thanks, RyRy  ( talk ) 00:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Cheers!Ardeshire Babakanاردشیر بابکان (talk) 15:18, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Whenever you have a question about the reliablity of a source, you can always ask at WP:RSN.  Corvus cornix  talk  20:36, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * When possible, try using more reliable sources such as books or journal articles. Websites are okay as long as they check out against RSN guidelines. -- Meld    shal    42?   23:38, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Physiological and molecular wheat breeding
Some of the information in Physiological and molecular wheat breeding looks like the information at fao.org. Is it possible that you can address this. Thanks. Suntag (talk) 00:56, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, some of it's directly copied. I'm going to try to figure out how much, and work on removing it and warning the user who added it. Thanks. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 01:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Translated page template
I don't understand the Translated page template.

That is, I managed to figure out a way how to make the smaller, light orange colored box with the ram's head (why a ram's head?) work. But I can't figure out how the larger, light green colored box is supposed to be used.

See here for the part that I've managed to use. Suggestions welcome!--Number17 (talk) 01:21, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The large green box at Template:Translated page is not made by the template and it is not supposed to be used (except for reading it on that particular page). It is merely a common format for template documentation, in this case telling how Translated page should be used to create the orange box. The animal is actually supposed to be a gnu in reference to the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL). PrimeHunter (talk) 01:35, 10 August 200 (UTC)


 * You weren't using it correctly I am afraid. You don't copy the code of the template, you copy and paste it in the appropriate page, changing the template parameters as needed. I fixed it for you in your subpage at User:Goodmorningworld/Bethmann family - take a look at the page in edit mode and you will see what I mean. – ukexpat (talk) 01:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

So, if you would take another look at my subpage linked above, have I already gotten all the mileage out of the Translated page template that I can get? I wonder if I am the only one to be thus confused, or is there a way to make the Template more user-friendly?--Number17 (talk) 01:48, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your reply. In spite of your reply, I am finding it difficult to understand how text in the larger box is to be taken as instructions for producing the smaller box. I did manage to get the smaller box to show what I wanted, but only by going into edit mode and doing trial-and-error iterations, getting rid of lots of confusing.


 * (edit conflict) The intended use of the template in your case is to place the following (as you see it on the rendered page, not in the source):
 * Here "comment" should either be omitted or replaced with a relevant comment. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:52, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Exactly, see my recent edit to User:Goodmorningworld/Bethmann family. If you look at it in edit mode, you will see the proper usage. – ukexpat (talk) 01:57, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Exactly, see my recent edit to User:Goodmorningworld/Bethmann family. If you look at it in edit mode, you will see the proper usage. – ukexpat (talk) 01:57, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ohhh okay. Thanks PH and Ukx. So, may I suggest this improvement for the instructions:

OLD

"Usage

You may insert this template in the talk page; the syntax is the following :

{ { Translated page|original language|original page|comment } }

The first parameter is the language code (for example de for German, fr for French, ...); the second is the name of the original article; the third is a comment, for instance the version number and/or date of the original page, which parts have been translated, or any other pertinent data."

NEW

"How it works

To place a "Translated page" box at the top of your article, edit your article (not the talk page!) by copying the line below and pasting it onto the top of your article:

{ { Translated page|original language|original page|comment } }

Leave Translated page as is. Replace original language with the two-letter language code (for example de for German, fr for French... List_of_ISO_639-1_codes). Replace original page with the exact title of the page you are translating; finally, replace comment with any information you wish to give here, for instance the version number and/or date of the original page, which parts have been translated -- or delete comment if you have nothing to add here.

Example:

{ { Translated page|fr|Lydie Auvray|The queen of musette/pop! Translated from French Wikipedia as of 10 August 2008 } }

Just a suggestion to make life easier on us pedestrians!--Number17 (talk) 02:25, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The image is not a ram, it is a gnu. It is the emblem of the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) use for Wikipedia content. --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  12:29, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Extreme confusion regarding my IP address receiving vadalism warnings when I did not make the edits in question.
I browse Wikipedia on a daily basis and have for years. I have made a few edits here and there from time to time -- nothing more than simple grammatical changes or spelling errors that needed a quick fix. I did not make an account until tonight (just now) after receiving vandalism warnings that were sent directly to my IP address. I have never noticed the "You have New Messages" message until today, and when I clicked the link to that user talk page, there were two vandalism messages on there, saying that my IP address had vandalized two pages in September 2007 ("Andrew Lloyd Webber" and "Dave Matthews Band" specifically, the former was a warning from a Bot and the latter a warning from an actual Wikipedia user. Concerned, I verified my IP address, then researched the edit history on both pages. Sure enough, there was vandalism on each page within 15 minutes from each other, listed as having been perpetrated by my own IP address! Neither my wife or myself would ever do such stupid things to any Wikipedia page. No one else has used this internet connection in our home besides the two of us. Our home network is not wireless - everything is on a wired router connection (so no one could steal our internet without being here and plugging in). My two questions are: 1) Why haven't I seen a message from Wikipedia that I "have new messages" (to my IP address) that have been there since September 2007 until almost a full year later? 2) Is it possible for someone to vandalize a Wikipedia page and "mask" their own IP address with a bogus one (that just happened to end up being mine)? Thanks in advance for any insight/help provided, and apologies in advance if I am posting this query in the incorrect section of the site. Thank you, Andy K. KaotikADC (talk) 01:36, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It is possible your IP is dynamically assigned so "your" IP actually "belongs" to a set of users. In a lot of cases, it's not 1 IP per computer.  x42bn6 Talk Mess  01:39, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * See also the box at the bottom of IP talk pages, for example at User talk:216.145.77.112. It strongly sounds like somebody else used the IP address earlier. The Wikipedia software is sometimes inconsistent about when it shows the orange new message banner to IP users. Maybe your ISP just assigned you that new IP address shortly before you saw the orange message, or maybe the software suddenly decided to show the message today although you may have visited Wikipedia from the same IP before. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:06, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Many ISPs charge extra for a static IP address. If the difference between static and dynamic addresses is news to you then it's highly probable you have a dynamic IP address. If so, your router will be set to accept DHCP settings from your ISP. Bazj (talk) 19:41, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Is there a template for localizing area?
In the manner that adding brackets around dates in converts the format to the user's preferences or region, is there something like that for area? For example <>: would output 123,456 sq. mi. on my screen or 319,749.57 km2 for someone else. Thank you. Louis Waweru  Talk  06:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. The Manual of Style has WP:UNITS, which seems to encourage you to add alternative units. --Kjoonlee 06:35, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hehe, the answer is there! It leads to Category:Conversion templates which has, 123456 sqmi &rarr; 123456 sqmi. Thanks  Louis Waweru   Talk  07:11, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * But that doesn't display one or the other based on user preference, it displays both. − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 11:32, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You want convert. For example  gives 123456 mi2. Also note that WP:MOSNUM no longer encourages date autoformatting, and many articles no longer have linked dates. --——  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  12:16, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

NATO FLAG COPYRIGHT NOT DOES NOT CORRESPOND WITH THE OFFICIAL NATO WEBSITE
The permission for the NATO does not correspond with the NATO website. Apparently we can use the image, as wikipedia is not commercial. Currently the flag keeps been removed when it is added to articles other than "NATO" itself due to copyright. Can someone please review the usage/ copyright of this flag properly please. Thanks Ijanderson977 (talk) 08:21, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Non-commercial isn't free enough for Wikipedia so you have to treat it like anything more restrictive and give it a fair use rationale. Sorry. You can add one for each page you want it on, if you feel it's important. Tombomp (talk/contribs) 08:26, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

How do I cite a computer program's source code?
I started an article "Naval Observatory Vector Astrometry Subroutines", using the software infobox. Currently the infobox fields that are related to software release dates have no citation information. This is because the actual dates are only available in the software's source code, which can be downloaded from the Web as archived files. The problem is I don't know how to cite computer source code --- I don't think that the "cite web" template is appropriate for the task. Can anyone provide some examples of citing computer source code? Many thanks in advance. --- Frigoris (talk) 08:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You don't cite it, since that would be OR. WP:NOR. --Kjoonlee 08:42, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmmm. If the source code archive is a reliable source then you can cite it by providing a link to it - I don't see why "cite web" template shouldn't be appropriate. It may be debatable whether the archive is a reliable source, though. Gandalf61 (talk) 09:36, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It isn't original research to pluck a date from some code. This is just like using the date from a newspaper article. − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 11:28, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Why use a template? If none fit, a simple text reference will be fine ...... Dendodge  .. Talk Contribs 11:29, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * There is a general purpose citation template. --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  12:03, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

vandalism in the article for Rock Paper Scissors
greetings! i'm not too skilled at working with the history system, especially in cases such as this where vandalism is older, but real edits have since been made. (i'll admit that i'm also extremely tired at the moment, and having slow dialup doesn't help.) in the article Rock paper scissors, there is a spot of vandalism where someone removed a quotation and replaced it with "who every read this is gay". there's also another potentially vandalism area where someone seems to have inserted the word "Jackson" with seemingly no relevance. if someone a little better at traversing the history system could deal with these, i'd appreciate it. 64.0.112.3 (talk) 10:01, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Thanks for pointing that out. :) – Luna Santin  (talk) 10:08, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

answer to doubt
where do i check the answers for the question i put in my talk page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shiniga (talk • contribs) 12:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You asked the question on the Science reference desk, which means any answers will be posted there. The question has since been archived (perhaps that's why you can't find it), but it has several answers - you can read them here. Xenon54 12:19, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Category "sandbox"
Hi! I want to play around with (clarify to myself) some category stuff before incorporating it into the mainspace. Is it OK to create an obscure category then CfD? That is, is there another way? Thanks. Saintrain (talk) 14:22, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, I have created a subpage of your userpage (a page that is linked to your userpage) User:Saintrain/Sandbox where you can do anything you want and no one will accuse you of vandalism or poor edits as it is not an article. When you've edited whatever and you think it is ready, then you can create the category or article. This way you have more freedom to experiment and right your wrongs! I have a sandbox and I always use it.Ardeshire Babakanاردشیر بابکان (talk) 15:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. So do I, just not called "Sandbox".  Saintrain (talk) 19:40, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Using a subpage to play around is a very good idea. However, if you do create a category and then want it deleted and it won't cause a mess (i.e., where many articles have been added to it or other users have made intervening edits) you can ask for speedy deletion rather than going through CfD. You can tag the category page with Db-g7; Db-g6 or db with an explanation; and, if it applies, Db-c1.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:42, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I should have said that it's  for (potential) changes to existing templates, and I didn't want to mess with them.   And thanks for the Db tips.  (I have a theory that there are more English euphemisms for money-related matters than s*x-related, and more deletion templates than either.)  Saintrain (talk) 19:40, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Depending on what you're doing, you may not need to create the category at all. A category can contain an article, and so exist in that sense, but not have a page created for it, and so not exist in that sense. When that happens, removing the article from the category will make it "disappear". Unfortunately, I'm having trouble finding such a "non-existant" category to demonstrate. Confusing Manifestation (Say hi!) 23:46, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, duh. I knew that.  Sheesh.  Unless I put text into the cat page, which I wasn't going to do, it just goes away.  Sorry for the dumb ill-considered question.  Saintrain (talk) 03:21, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Username
Hi, I've looked over the username policy, and fully understand it. But I just can't think, so I'd like some suggestions on a good username. Thanks. 79.75.153.179 (talk) 15:42, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, is available...! GbT/c 20:39, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Many users pick a username with special meaning to them but that is hard without knowing something about you. Well, is also available ;-) PrimeHunter (talk) 20:52, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Others take their names from SF novels. Algebraist 20:54, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

My suggestion would be "A Really Cool User Name" DOR (HK) (talk) 00:59, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

How to transclude list of articles in a category?
Yeah...how can I do that, or is it not possible? For contrast, gives me the number of pages in Category:Candidates for speedy deletion and  transcludes the header (the static content) but not the page list. I want the list of pages themselves. DMacks (talk) 16:47, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * --CBD 18:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Asking for a Ban for a User
User:Sm5w2 has multiple times today recreated the article Ways Auto Inc.. Is there any way to report them to an admin to see about banning them? The only purpose of their account seems to be to create and recreate this article. Alinnisawest (talk) 21:32, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You can report them for a block at WP:AIV - long name Administrator intervention against vandalism. Blocking is the technical step of removing someone's ability to edit wikipedia. A ban is a slightly different thing - it's effectively the community saying "You're not welcome any more". For what you're describing, WP:AIV is your destination. GbT/c 21:36, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, and incidentally, the user in question has already been blocked. GbT/c 21:36, 10 August 2008 (UTC)