Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 August 14

= August 14 =

Help with grammar
Could someone with a good knowledge of grammar check the first sentence of the description of Image:Solar land area.png? In particular is it ok to use "of"? 199.125.109.129 (talk) 03:37, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No I believe it should be "in". An Someone has changed it already. Scottydude review 03:56, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's the diff: . Scottydude review 03:58, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's the problem with "in", which is a matter of semantics, not grammar. If you say that "Solar power systems installed in the areas defined by the dark disks could provide more than the world's 2006 total primary energy demand (assuming a conversion efficiency of 8%).", you have met the criteria of the sentence if you install two one kilowatt systems in each area, which would generate a total of twelve thousand watts, not 18 times ten to the 12th watts. Any suggestions? The reason for changing to "of" was to indicate that the aggregate total of solar systems needed to add up to the areas shown, and more importantly that they don't need to be constrained to being within the area of the dots. 199.125.109.129 (talk) 04:14, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Just another grammatical suggestion, which is to say "...than the world's total primary energy demand (assuming a conversion efficiency of 8%) in 2006." - DigitalC (talk) 04:45, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * How about "...than the world's total primary energy demand in 2006 (assuming a conversion efficiency of 8%).", or even without the parentheses, ... "in 2006, assuming". 199.125.109.129 (talk) 05:57, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Done, and used the term "covering".--Patrick (talk) 09:01, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Good solution! Scottydude review 14:21, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Does that make it look too much like that they have to be located in those exact locations? One editor complained that the image "may be taken to advocate a point of view that large photovoltaic arrays are a preferred solution to world energy problems", so if there was a way of saying that the arrays just needed to have the total area shown, that would probably be better. 199.125.109.129 (talk) 05:25, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

(undent) If someone thinks the image implies that the photovoltaic arrays have to be in the example locations in the image, that person doesn't understand how to read the image legend. (Show the image to a billion people, and some are sure to misunderstand it; that's unavoidable no matter what the image says. Look at all the people who fail to read the instructions at the top of this Help desk page. Those instructions look pretty clear, and yet...) The example locations, together with the target power requirement and the assumed conversion efficiency, determine the sizes of the dots. Moving the dots to other areas, where insolation is lower, would require enlarging the dots to get the same power output. I don't see how the image itself advocates a policy position, any more than say a picture of Jupiter showing some example space colonies would somehow advocate for implementing a particular space exploration program. Wikipedia has lots of images showing potential future developments in science or engineering which are do not violate WP:NPOV. We have images that try to predict future population growth, the melting of glaciers, and so on; they don't imply such change would necessarily be ideal or even desirable. In other words, let's assume good faith by not assuming something violates NPOV unless it clearly does. Most people with strong points of view tend to hit others over the head with them, so we probably don't need to try hard to recognize POV. --Teratornis (talk) 05:56, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Besides, anyone familiar with solar energy knows people are installing solar energy systems all over the inhabited world. It's not going to be confined to a handful of large dots on the world map. Clearly the illustration is conceptual, to give an idea of scale, like those diagrams of government spending that show how high a stack of dollar bills would be. That doesn't imply the government manages its money by stacking up bills to the Moon. Neither will all the world's energy supply come exclusively from photovoltaic arrays in a small number of locations, although some of those areas could see large solar installations eventually. --Teratornis (talk) 06:05, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. 199.125.109.129 (talk) 06:15, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Time
Why is the time 1 hour slow. Tharnton345 (talk) 05:26, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Did you check the date/time settings in Special:Preferences? Try clicking "Fill in from browser"; if that doesn't work, you'll have to fill it in manually.  RJaguar3 |  u  |  t  05:32, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The reason is that the time used in Wikipedia is apparently a different time zone than yours. --Alinnisawest(talk) 06:00, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It's doing it all over the globe. Tharnton345 (talk) 11:24, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's still doing it! I filled in the date!!!!!! Tharnton345 (talk) 11:26, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you talking about the time in signatures on talk pages? If so, I'm afraid that time will always be in UTC and can't be changed. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 11:42, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Since editors are from all over the world, Wikipedia uses Coordinated Universal Time (UTC). In your preferences, you can:
 * Date and time: The offset will adjust the times shown on your watchlist and recent changes, but not in signatures on talk pages, which will always be in UTC. (I find this confusing and leave it at 0)
 * Gadgets: You can enable a clock in the personal toolbar that shows the current time in UTC.
 * --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  11:52, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

a quick question
it looks like anyone can write on a subject matter here, then they become the editor If the person is the editor of that subject, can they "see"when someone is there-- ip addy as an editor? thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.110.210.53 (talk) 05:34, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm... your question is a little confusing, but if you mean whether editors of a page can tell when someone reads the page, no. But anyone can see all edits made to a page by clicking the "history" tab. The only way to tell when someone visits a page is reading the server logs, which only developers can do. Calvin 1998 (t-c) 05:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, anyone can edit articles here, but there's no special status as "the editor" of any article: see OWN. If there's an article you've edited (or are interested in), you can see whenever anyone else edits it by adding it to your watchlist.  But there's no way for you to tell when anyone just reads it without changing it, no.   Ka renjc 18:33, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Question from Fangusu
Why is it not acceptable use an image with a watermark? Fangusu (talk) 06:18, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * From the guideline on Watermarks


 * Watermarks can be unfree, if they feature a logo or any copyrighted text, image, font, etc.
 * They may contain copyright statements, which affect the reuseability of the image.
 * They detract from the quality of images
 * They can negatively influence the neutrality of images, or be considered advertising, and cannot be used on certain projects
 * Images with watermarks are far less likely to be used
 * Watermarks will be, in most cases, removed anyway by image editors - uploading a watermarked version only creates a lot of extra work for other volunteers Anonymous101 (talk) 09:28, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Software version
Just a quick question. What version of MediaWiki software is Wikipedia running? I have tried to use an extension CreateBox which is available in versions from 1.11, but it doesn't seem to be working. MSGJ (talk) 09:56, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * From the left sidebar, select Special Pages > Version and you will find that we are running 1.14alpha (r39316); scroll down the page and you will see the installed extensions. CreateBox is not installed on Wikipedia. --——  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  10:58, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the quick answer. MSGJ (talk) 15:58, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Citing references
I have two questions.

In one case, I found an article on the subject using an online database, and although it was an Associated Press article, I doubt that I would be able to find the original article. Would the Associated Press article therefore be okay as a source for a Wikipedia article to which I contributed?

Also, I looked to see the sources for the Wikipedia article on a certain reality show. I'm afraid to identify said show because I don't want to see the information lost from Wikipedia, but nearly all the sources are alleged MySpace pages of the reality show participants. If we assume those really are the MySpace pages, are they acceptable as sources? Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 14:09, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm a bit confused on the first question, but the AP is generally considered as a reliable source. MySpace is not a reliable source. See Verifiability and Reliable sources. --——  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  14:21, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

The first question was about whether it is okay to go ahead and use the article that appeared in another paper other than the one where the article first appeared. It doesn't seem like it should be a problem.Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 14:49, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that should be fine. Olaf Davis | Talk 21:32, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I have good news about my second question. It seems that the Beauty and the Geek contestants with MySpaces had them listed under "References", while I was thinking those were the sources for something in the article. They might have been sources for the last names.Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 19:56, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It looks like the section had been mislabelled: the section labelled 'References' linked to places like fansites, the programme's official site, and MySpace pages - which are not considered reliable sources and so can't be used as references. They are sometimes ok to use as links to extra information, but should be labelled 'External Links' (see WP:External links). I've relablled it as such, and renamed the 'Footnotes' section as 'References'. Thanks for catching that, Vchimpanzee! Olaf Davis | Talk 21:32, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Errors on Miller Chill Entry
I work at MillerCoors and have handled public relations for Miller Chill since its inception. There are two errors on the brand's entry that we'd like to get fixed:

-- "Miller Chill, invented by Nate Weiner of Whitefish Bay, Wisconsin, was the first widely produced beer of its kind in the United States."

This is not true. Miller Chill was developed by our in-house brewmasters. There is no employee here named Nate Weiner and no one associated with the brand has any idea who this is.

-- "Miller Chill’s marketing is design to appeal to young males in both American and Latino cultures in the United States (ex. Eddie not Craig). By using bright colors, viewers are meant to envision Chill as a replacement for other light-colored "party" beers[4] branded as "South American," such as Corona."

In all communications from the moment we started testing Miller Chill, we were clear in stating that it was aimed at taking volume from other mainstream domestic beers, not from brands such as Corona, which is carried by many of our distributors. For confidentiality reasons, I cannot include the actual document, but I've pasted below relevant info from a Q&A we prepared for the national launch last summer.

"Chill seems to be clearly aimed at Corona, an important profit contributor for many Miller distributors. Why go after a brand that’s critical to the success of your distributors? Miller Chill is specifically intended to take volume and share from competitive mainstream brands by presenting a compelling trade-up alternative to the normal beer." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bigbus (talk • contribs) 14:29, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * See WP:V, WP:RS, WP:COI, and Help:Talk page. In particular, WP:V says:
 * Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged, or the material may be removed.
 * It looks like User:Ukexpat has removed the unsourced material you are challenging; see the diff. If you can find some press coverage to serve as reliable sources, feel free to mention them on Talk:Miller Chill to assist other editors in improving the article. Due to WP:COI it is generally best not to have people who are closely associated with the subject of an article on Wikipedia editing it directly, although if you can comply with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines as well as a disinterested person, that's what really matters. If you're new to Wikipedia editing, it's probably best to leave the editing on this particular article to others. Thank you for bringing these problems to our attention. --Teratornis (talk) 04:35, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Since you have a business interest, also see WP:BFAQ. --Teratornis (talk) 16:51, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Where to go for WP community discussions on verfiability and sources
Where in the WP community should one go to have discussion with other editors concerned about the verifiability and sources of WP? There seem to be a large number of articles, with more being added all the time, that have no citations for their claims. I tag some when I see them but am interested in the meta-process? What happens to the myriad articles that have no sources after they've been tagged a long time? Etc. N2e (talk) 14:33, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Do you date your tags? Whenever I see an unsourced item that was tagged with an old date, I just delete the section.  If it has no date, I don't know how old it is and I don't delete it. -- k a i n a w &trade; 14:36, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, in a manner of speaking. I note that the SmackBot bot dates such articles within a few days atuomagically.  So I can hit more articles if I don't take the time to do manually what seems to be done very well by an automated bot. N2e (talk) 21:55, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If you have issues with a particular source, you can discuss it at Reliable sources/Noticeboard. --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  14:46, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * No, no problem with any particular source. Thanks though. N2e (talk) 21:55, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the help, but that doesn't quite address my question. For example, the article Alt-A mortgage does not have any references, and has been tagged for two months.  Deleting all the unreferenced text is just going to create a lot of animosity.  What to do on this sort of article?  These are myriad on WP.  Is there anywhere where a wiki-community of folks who want to see a quality well-sourced encyclopedia are talking? N2e (talk) 21:55, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * See the links under WP:EIW, for example WikiProject Fact and Reference Check. --Teratornis (talk) 04:20, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. That's just what I needed.  N2e (talk) 17:07, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

How do i communicate with an administrator for deleting my contribution
I recently added a contribution on a tv show and it has been deleted by an administrator as advertising and i would like to query why it has been deemed that way. As an example it is similar to thousands of other tv shows and i provided sources to support the contribution.

thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tgah (talk • contribs) 14:53, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * What article are you referring to? Regards, —αἰτίας •'discussion'• 14:56, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * For general information, see WP:WWMPD and WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. --Teratornis (talk) 15:02, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Most of the Help desk volunteers are not administrators. Only administrators can see deleted articles. Therefore, we cannot easily identify the name of the deleted article that you contributed (assuming that when you write "a contribution" you mean "an article"; "a contribution" might also refer to any edit you make to an existing page). If you tell us the name of the article, we can look up its entry in the Deletion log and interpret the reasoning of the administrator who deleted it. If you are new to Wikipedia, you have experienced a common problem for new users. Wikipedia makes it very easy for anyone to create new articles, but Wikipedia does not make it initially obvious that thousands of new articles by new users get deleted for failing to comply with Wikipedia's complex and unintuitive policies and guidelines. In my opinion, this is an ergonomic shortcoming of Wikipedia, but I don't know how to fix it. --Teratornis (talk) 15:13, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you find your article on Deletionpedia? --Teratornis (talk) 15:16, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Presumably The Ballers Show? Having looked at the deleted version I have to say I don't have a clue. I would suggest asking the deleting admin on their talk page. If you have no luck there then WP:DRV. -- zzuuzz (talk) 15:20, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with zzuuzz, I don't see anything blatant in the deleted version. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 15:25, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Phrases like "the much anticipated feature ‘the Ballers Challenge’" and "the much talked about ‘Ballers car’" are what marks it as a promotion, to me. Less important, the word "piloted" makes it unclear to what extent the show was an actual broadcast show. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  17:41, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

olymbic
how many medals did India get in olymbic so far? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.96.4.16 (talk) 15:35, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * One. See 2008 Summer Olympics medal table. Algebraist 15:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * And 17 in previous Olympic games. See All-time Olympic Games medal table and India at the Olympics. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:36, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Inserting a picture
I am Turnbuglatejcarboretum, Assistant Director at the Edith J. Carrier Arboretum and Botanical Gardens at James Madison University, responsible for public relations. I am novice user of editing Wikipedia. Have today added to page that opens to 'arboretum' search. I would like to upload a photo of EJC Arboretum. Can you help please? My email address is [email address removed by DOR (HK) (talk) 01:03, 15 August 2008 (UTC)]. Thank you. Turnbuglatejcarboretum (talk) 15:45, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Do you have a link to the picture? i could upload it for you.

However:

if you want to upload it yourself, here is the process.

You name the picture, name its author, source (if you took it then the source is you, same with author), other versions (if there are any), and then whalaa! You are done. Add it to an article then. Thanks for showing interest in contributing. -- Meld    shal    42?   16:23, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * In order to upload a picture you need to be an autoconfirmed user. This means your account must be more than 4 days old and must have least 10 edits.  You seem to meet the first condition but no the second, so you may wish to make a small edit to your userpage or correct a typo or something, just to get over the threshold.
 * Upload your image to Wikimedia Commons if possible, so users from other Wikis can use it too. Make a Commons account [here], only takes a minute, then follow the links to upload and name your image.  Once it's uploaded OK, you can simply add the image's name in double square brackets in the article (eg [[Image:Arboretumpic]] and it will appear.  For more information, see Uploading images and Help:Images and other uploaded files.   Ka renjc 18:54, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

WP:Dan
Is this an okay re-direct? Are users permitted to do something like this (within reason)? --Endless Dan 16:28, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You are redirecting across namespaces from the Wikipedia namespace to User namespace. There is nothing specific about this in the Redirect guidelines, but is considered inappropriate by Cross-namespace redirects. Why do you want to do this? --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  16:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Why not? Thank you for your help. --Endless Dan 16:47, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

How to do personal sandboxing without release to wild

 * Keywords: offline, off-line, sandbox, sandboxing
 * This suggestion provides a method to sandbox an article that is still in-process when you would rather not have anyone look at it until you decide to release it to the wild.
 * First, I searched the Help Desk archives and found that others have barked up this same tree before (2007-01-22, 2007-01-29), although with differing focus (focus was more on how to use MediaWiki offline, rather than the goal of privacy-till-release-to-wild. The method below is not wholly offline, but it does give the desired privacy.)
 * The thing is that if you use your personal sandbox (User:Username/Sandbox) and save the changes, anyone can potentially view your drafts before you're ready to release to wild. This is not really a "problem", but it would be nice to be able to sandbox something and know that no matter how stupid your rough drafts may look at first, no one else will be judging your work until you're ready to release.
 * Therefore, the suggested method follows. (Other people no doubt have already thought of this, but I am documenting the idea here so that future Help Desk archive users can find it and use it.)
 * Write your article with full wiki markup offline in Word, Open Office, etc. (I don't recommend Notepad, because it changes soft returns to hard returns when you save.) Then, copy-and-paste it into your personal sandbox (User:Username/Sandbox), but DO NOT CLICK "SAVE" OR HIT "ENTER". Instead, click "Show preview". Preview to your heart's content, make changes, preview again (you can click "Show preview" as many times as you want), and, when you have done enough drafting for one night, select all (ctrl-a) and copy-and-paste it back into your offline master document. You can repeat this process as much as you want until you are ready to release to wild. This method doesn't give "privacy" in the security-industry sense (your previews are not protected like an encrypted message is protected), but that's irrelevant here—all we care about here is not saving a wiki page to its page history.
 * That's it! Just remember not to reflexively hit "Save". This method is unoriginal, but worth posting here FYI. — ¾-10 16:36, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yep, you can do that if you are concerned over privacy. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 04:01, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Question About a Naming a Page
Hi,

I created a page for an artist by the name of Leigh Jones, whose debut album is coming out soon. The problem is that the heading of the article reads "Leigh jones" instead of "Leigh Jones". The 'j' is supposed to be capitalized. How do i change that?

And my next question is that usually when you create a wikipedia page for an important person and you search the person's name on google, one of the first links that comes up from the search is the wikipedia page, however, that is not happening for Leigh Jones; any clue why?

If you can please reply to me by sending an email to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doit4thepeople (talk • contribs) 16:47, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for all of your help,

Aydin (I-DEEN) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doit4thepeople (talk • contribs) 16:46, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I have taken care of it for you. Articles are retitled by moving them to a different name, which preserves the edit history (a page should never be retitled by copying/pasting its content to a new page name). Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk)


 * (ec)Have a look at Help:Moving a page for changing the name of an article. If you can't move it, you can request a move at Requested moves. Regarding why it doesn't come up on google, I imagine the page hasn't been indexed yet. But I'm sure they'll get around to it. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 16:55, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * [[Image:AROBAZE.png|20px]] Please do not include contact details in your questions. We are unable to provide answers by any off-wiki medium and this page is highly visible across the internet.  The details have been removed, but if you wish for them to be permanently removed from the page history, email [mailto:oversight-l@lists.wikimedia.org this address]. ...... Dendodge  .. Talk Contribs 16:59, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

where do I look for you responses?
The page i created, hotelplanner.com, was deleted because they believed it to be advertising. I did what it said and i put the ((holdon)) phrase on there, then i replied to the talk page... when will i be getting answers. There is nothing wrong with my page. It is almost the exact same thing as the priceline page... in fact we power most of their business. How can they have a page and not us? How can i edit mine to make it appropriate? And most of all how do i look for responses or know if I can continue working on my page or if it will be able to be back up? Does it come in an email? Where do I check for your response. This is very confusing to use! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kthotelplanner (talk • contribs) 16:58, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * A lot of your questions are answered on WP:CSD and Template talk:Hangon ...... Dendodge  .. Talk Contribs 17:01, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

So why do some companies have sites but we cant have one explaining our unique bidding technology??? What was wrong with HotelPlanner.com??? Thanks for trying to help before but I have already read that and it does not explain why ours was deleted and others that are the exact same are not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kthotelplanner (talk • contribs) 17:08, 14 August 2008 (UTC) Kthotelplanner (talk) 17:09, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I would advise those reading that User:Kthotelplanner has a conflict of interest issue with this article in question hotelplanner.com. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Examtester (talk • contribs) 17:15, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And I would advise the creator of this article and sockpuppets to read WP:CORP, WP:SPAM and WP:YFA – ukexpat (talk) 17:54, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Template:Navbox
How can I replicate the functionality of Template:Navbox is standard HTML? Many thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Examtester (talk • contribs) 17:10, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Responded on user's talk page ......<em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:#008000"> Dendodge  .. Talk Contribs 17:18, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

i thank Dendodge for his reply, but i still need help. after viewing the source of the page Template:Navbox in firefox, the HTML code does not appear to work once I have copied it into a HTML file. Although the information and text is present, the collapse functionality of the navigation box does not function. how can the collapse function be replicated in HTML. many thnakyous ¬¬¬¬ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Examtester (talk • contribs) 17:34, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Translutions
In addition to my above question, how does one replicate the translution functionality of wiki software in HTML, for example loading a HTML page into another page, as with translution on the wiki? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Examtester (talk • contribs) 17:14, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * This is usually done on the server side, though it is possible with JavaScript. On the server side, there are literally thousands of ways to include one page in another page.  It would be painful to type them all out.  So, you should limit your question to the type of server you have and, of course, ask this on the Reference Desk since it is not a question about using Wikipedia. -- <font color='#ff0000'>k <font color='#cc0033'>a <font color='#990066'>i <font color='#660099'>n <font color='#3300cc'>a <font color='#0000ff'>w &trade; 17:47, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Referencing
I need to reference a MySpace blog in NHL 09, but apparently it's a blacklisted link. Does anyone know how I can get the reference there? It needs to go after the song "Big Chomper, Big Chomper". Here's what should be there: Fog  Devil  17:58, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Uhuh, myspace blogs are not reliable sources. Sorry.  <font color=#000066>weburiedoursecretsinthegarden  18:01, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Lol....seems like the band is a pretty good source to me. Fog  Devil  18:14, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Someone's own website, LiveJournal, MySpace or whatever is not likely to be a reliable source of impartial information. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  18:50, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed so, see WP:SPS. – ukexpat (talk) 19:45, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Why are my requests to delete superfluous subpages ignored?
I created ten subpages as drafts in order to rewrite a poorly written article. After those drafts were no longer useful, I inserted the expression at the top of each page as per the Help Instructions which I had located from the category "speedy deletions of user pages". My requests were over two weeks ago. The subpages still exist. Have I done something incorrectly? Hag2 (talk) 18:13, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You didn't do it right. Put instead of db-userreq  Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 18:27, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. But I did put  .   I did NOT put db-userreq .  Does the tl mean that someone else came along at some point and inserted the tl?  And why would he have done that?
 * Huh. I looked at them all and they had db-userreq . Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 18:37, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * cool... TenPoundHammer, are you really helping me here? *smile*  Apparently the addition of the tl is relevant to this discussion.  If you do not know why someone else came along during the last two weeks and inserted the tl into my no longer useful subpage drafts then it is ok to say that.  Would the third-party involved here (namely the person who performed the tl addition) be listed in the History? Hag2 (talk) 18:46, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You may not have thought you added db-userreq, but you did. Here, for example, is a diff where you added the template. Page histories don't lie. You probably copied and pasted the code from somewhere, without noticing the  part. If it isn't clear, that code, makes the template display as a link, instead of adding the template itself to the page.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 18:51, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No. I copied and pasted the  from the Instructions.  (p.s. I looked at the History and found no indication of anyone's craftwork, except mine. #$@%^?) But...oh well, that's one of the mysteries of Wikistuff; and since I am just learning, I will accept all rebukes.  Now then, if I go back and edit the tl out, the pages should be deleted, correct?  Also, Fuh... when you wrote: "If it isn't clear, that code, makes the template display as a link, instead of adding the template itself to the page."  Does this mean that I may have not seen the tl because it was hidden somehow?  (It seems to me that I recall the  exactly as it is shown now.)  Hag2 (talk) 19:05, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks, xeno. [Case solved.]  oh..., I'm sorry...thanks TenPoundHammer and Fuhghettaboutit too.  Hag2 (talk) 19:14, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * To answer your question, Yes, and I think that's what happened but were talking past each other because I assumed something in my post I shouldn't; the thing that makes the difference is what you see in edit mode (i.e., after you click edit this page) as opposed to what you 'see when in "normal read" mode. If I edit a page to add, what you will see after I save is the big, rectangular, bright-pink template saying "This page may meet Wikipedia’s criteria for speedy deletion as a user page or subpage requested to be deleted by its user. ..." If, on the other hand, I add in edit mode db-userreq what you will see after I save is a link to the template itself, like this: db-userreq. The "tl|" part you do not see except when in edit mode. Does that clear things up?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:27, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

My Signature
I want to make my signature colourful!!!

I want my username to have a black background with a blue font And I want my talk to be black background and red font, please help!!!

Jonni Boi 18:35, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Go to "my preferences" at the top of the page, and in the box next to "Signature:", enter this (and make sure you CHECK "Raw signature"):
 * <font style="color:#0070ff;">User:Jonni Boi <font style="color:#ff0000;font-family:sans-serif;">(talk)
 * Which should produce this:
 * <font style="color:#0070ff;">User:Jonni Boi <font style="color:#ff0000;font-family:sans-serif;">(talk)
 * You can fiddle around with the shades of blue/red. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 03:54, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Many editors appreciate a simple signature.... one that doesn't scream too loudly. ---J.S  (T/C/WRE) 03:53, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Watchlist
My watchlist won't update. Schuym1 (talk) 18:39, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I am having the same problem. Same when I click on "my contributions", nothing for today shows up.  swa  q  18:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Me too. They seem to have forgotten everything since about 14:00 UTC. Has the database been reset or something? JohnCD (talk) 18:43, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it's just server lag - it'll catch up eventually ......<em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:#008000"> Dendodge  .. Talk Contribs 18:48, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Neither my watchlist nor my user contributions are updating, though if I look at the histories of the articles I've edited, my edits are showing up there. Deor (talk) 18:49, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Server admin log It has been noted. My watchlist just came forward 50 minutes, so it might be improving. Woody (talk) 18:53, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I just logged in and there is a 3 hours lag. It seems it's just watchlist and contributions. Recent changes work fine. Admiral Norton (talk) 19:10, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

See discussion at the Village Pump technical section. – ukexpat (talk) 19:41, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

My last contribution is not showing up in user contributions
Bug Glitch? Is wiki ok? My last 2 contributions can be seen [|here]- but has dissapeered from my watchlist and contribs.?? Sorry if this is the wrong place but couldn't find a report bug option... Garycompugeek (talk) 18:58, 14 August 2008 (UTC) I read above response... thanks Garycompugeek (talk) 19:00, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

See discussion at the Village Pump technical section. – ukexpat (talk) 19:42, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

List vandalism templates
Hi, I remember having a list of vandalism templates bookmarked on my old computer, but I can't remember the title of the page. Does anyone know where I can find it? <font color="red" face="Comic Sans MS">GO-PCHS-NJROTC <font color="black" face="Comic Sans MS">(Messages) 19:01, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Is this the page you're looking for? AngelOfSadness  talk  19:04, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yup. Thank you AngelOfSadness! <font color="red" face="Comic Sans MS">GO-PCHS-NJROTC <font color="black" face="Comic Sans MS">(Messages) 19:43, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

My Watchpage.
It won't work nothing shows up when i click on it. Does anyone know what the problem could be? Thanks --KakiBrz (talk) 19:51, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * See discussion at the Village Pump technical section. Tito xd (?!? - cool stuff) 19:54, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Citing references, the sequel
Just added something to "Citing References" above, so I put this here, in case no one will see it automatically.<font color="Green">Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 19:57, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Replied in that section. Olaf Davis | Talk 21:33, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * By the way, you can create a link to a section on the same page with which produces . See also Help:Link. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:54, 14 August 2008 (UTC)