Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 August 22

= August 22 =

flat rate telecommunication
i'm doing project with electronic-commerce and come across one topic flat rate telecommunications that want to encourage electonic commerce and how the flat rate telecommunication accesss system would affect the thsage behavior pattern different usagebehavior pattern categories that marketers use:browser, buyers, and shoppers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.109.202.120 (talk) 01:46, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * This is the help desk for the encyclopedia Wikipedia (which has an article about flat fee). Do you have a question about using Wikipedia? If you have a question which is not about Wikipedia then you can go to Reference desk. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:20, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

move page
Is it possible to move a page to rename an article (spelling error, title needed capital letters), and then once the page is successfully moved, to delete the old name/page so that on the new page, under the new title, a "redirected from ____ page" does not appear. My reason for this is that when searching in google, the old mispelled name appears, and onc you click on it, it redirects to the new page - I dont want to see the old mis-spelled name anywhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Infocentral2000 (talk • contribs) 01:52, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Cross posted at WP:VPT. I've responded there. Algebraist 02:05, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

reference to Atlanta radio station burning
In the article Janis Ian, it says "a radio station in Atlanta that played it was burned down" for playing her song "Society's Child". It is in her book, but I would like to get some independent information. Did an Atlanta radio station burn down about 1965 or 66? Which one? Was there any indication that it was because of that song?

I googled and couldn't find any information that wasn't derived from her book. Does anyone know how to find out about that? Bubba73 (talk), 04:14, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Google search can sometimes be weak on events which occurred long before the Internet boom. Today when news happens, many news outlets publish it online in addition to using their traditional media. Events from the 1960s would have only appeared in print or on television, so someone would have had to recently transcribe it onto the Web. Fewer people are interested in the past than in the present, so the Web's coverage of history is spotty. Old newspapers have lots of material that you can't find on Google yet. Since you are asking about an event in Atlanta, Georgia, it might have appeared in The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Perhaps the Atlanta-Fulton Public Library System has back issues of the newspaper on microfilm. Good luck on plowing through all of them to (maybe) find what you need. You could also see Atlanta Radio which lists a whole bunch of Atlanta radio stations. Maybe someone at WikiProject Radio Stations would know how to find obscure historical tidbits such as this. You could try asking on the Reference desk. --Teratornis (talk) 16:20, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Bodog
Why is this posted....its an ad for a bussines?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.157.181.200 (talk) 04:18, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not quite understanding and interpreting what your saying. May you please elaborate? Thanks, RyRy  ( talk ) 05:44, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The IP user is probably wondering why there is an article for Bodog. The simple answer is that Wikipedia covers notable subjects that have verifiable references. - DigitalC (talk) 06:15, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

semi protected /protected.
Dear Wiki, I made a proper contribution to a page (no slander, properly sourced ,etc.) Later I found the page to be "protected"--> now does this mean semi-protected or forever protected?

Moreover, if the page is forever protected, how do I petition wikipedia to remove the block on the page as I feel my contribution was factually correct and just.

PS for FYI: my username: quickread page subject: Amanda Beard person who protected page :NishKid64 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Quickread (talk • contribs) 04:25, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I would assume that Amanda Beard is the article your talking about? True, it is protected, but it is only semi-protected, meaning that only autoconfirmed users can edit it. You will have to have made 10 or more edits and your account has to be 4 days old or older to edit pages that are semi-protected like the Amanda Beard article. The page was originally protected due to WP:BLP concerns and expires exactly on 03:12, 5 September 2008 (UTC) unless protection is lifted earlier. Thanks, RyRy  ( talk ) 05:42, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Fair use?
I know very little about fair use procedures and image deletion procedures. It seems to me that image:EIUOldMain.jpg not only doesn't have the rationale filled out, but also fails fair use because the shot is easily reproducible. Any guidance towards this matter would be much appreciated. Momo Hemo (talk) 05:34, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I have tagged the article for speedy deletion under CSD I7 as it does seem to be easily reproducible and that the picture is not the actual logo of the organization. Thanks for bringing that to our attention. In the future you can tag the page for speedy deletion yourself or if it does not meet the speedy deletion requirements or you just want outside input you can bring it to WP:IFD. - Icewedge (talk) 05:51, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

FINDING MONEY FOR FEMALE ADULT UNDER GRAD OVER 50YRS OLD
may I USE WIKIPEDIA TO FIND COLLEGE FUNDING FOR ADULTS OVER 50YRS OLD —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.187.185.119 (talk) 11:22, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No you can't. This is an encyclopedia run and edited by volunteers, normal people just like you and me, unfortunately your in the wrong place.  Monster Under Your Bed  (talk) 11:24, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If you find any information in Wikipedia articles about organisations or programmes that may help fund your studies, then you are most welcome to take matters up with them outside this encyclopaedia. However, you may not use Wikipedia as, for example, a notice board to appeal for funding.  You may find it illuminating to read about what Wikipedia is and what it is not.   Ka renjc 13:29, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Adding Picture
So say I look on Wikipedia on Miley Cyrus.She has a picture but when my daughter looks at Selena Gomez their is no picture.How can she add a picture? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.86.228.48 (talk) 15:58, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If you can obtain a free image of Selena Gomez which meets all the criteria, then you can register an account and upload the file. MSGJ (talk) 16:03, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) The first step to uploading a picture is registering an account. It's free and comes with lots of benefits. After you've made 10 edits and have been active for four days, you can upload a picture. See WP:UPLOAD for more details. Cheers!  TN ‑ X - Man  16:04, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Or if it really is a free image, create a Commons account and upload it there. Commons accounts do not require autoconfirmation and images there are available to all Wikipedia projects. – ukexpat (talk) 16:13, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The key here is that is must be free. Non-free photos of living persons cannot be used. --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  16:40, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Talk page text
Is there a way to stop the default message MediaWiki:Talkpagetext appearing at the top of a talk page when editing it? MSGJ (talk) 16:01, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Just for you, or for anyone editing a specific talk page? Algebraist 16:04, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If it's just for you, on all talk pages, then add this to your monobook.css:


 * Algebraist 16:06, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That's nice, but I meant for anyone editing a specific page. For example, when using editintro you can write your own instructions like in this example. The instruction to add ~ here is annoying and not appropriate. Why use talk space in this case, you may ask? Because unregistered users can create them. MSGJ (talk) 16:13, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't fully understand what you're trying to do here, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, but as a general rule, it's nice if all talk pages can work the way Talk page and Talk page guidelines say they do. Making some talk pages work differently makes the documentation wrong in some cases, and the resulting exceptions create more complexity which makes Wikipedia harder for new users to learn. If you're trying to build a system of form-driven data entry (and Wikipedia could use this feature for lots of things, such as the Help desk), another option might be to encourage our developers to develop an extension for structured data input. We could use such a tool for example to create a wizard-type diagnostic tree to help new users formulate coherent questions and direct them to the appropriate Wikipedia question page. Our current method requires every user to already know something about wikitext editing just to be able to ask a question, and we get some Reference desk questions on the Help desk and so on. We don't have the tools to build a nice structured question wizard for the new users. --Teratornis (talk) 20:53, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Lists and Categories
I'm giving an example to illustrate my question. This is not a question about content.

The article East Kildonan, Winnipeg is about a neighbourhood of Winnipeg. The article includes a list of "Neighbourhoods in Winnipeg". East Kildonan is NOT on that list. This list seemed to be based on the article List of Winnipeg neighbourhoods.

Further complicating this picture, the Category:Neighbourhoods in Winnipeg DOES include East Kildonan, though it is a much shorter list than the one in the article.

The question: why are there two lists, one in an article and one in a category, of what seem to be the same thing? Is one of these lists NOT supposed to exist, or does each have a reason for being?

Wanderer57 (talk) 16:17, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The list on East Kildonan, Winnipeg comes from a template which can easily be put on many pages and only one copy needs to be maintained. Check out Template:WinnipegNeighbourhoods. Perhaps you can add East Kildonan to it if it should be there. MSGJ (talk) 16:24, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * About lists and categories, they are often duplicated on wikipedia, but in this case I cannot see what List of Winnipeg neighbourhoods is achieving given that the template and the Category:Neighbourhoods in Winnipeg are also used. MSGJ (talk) 16:30, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you. The question remains, in my mind at least, SHOULD we have both a "template list" and a category which a) seems like duplication of function and b) are vastly different in their contents. Wanderer57 (talk) 16:29, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Not quite the same function because you can't have the contents of a category at the bottom of an article which is how the template is being used. Obviously they should have the same thing in each - maybe you can correct this ;) MSGJ (talk) 16:32, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Another important difference is that only articles can be included in a category, and the template seems to contain a complete list of neighbourhoods, not all of which have articles yet. (They are the black words.) MSGJ (talk) 16:35, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The category is populated when the article has the proper category inserted; either the article does not exist or the article does not have the category. --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  16:37, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I just edited WinnipegNeighbourhoods to include East Kildonan. – ukexpat (talk) 16:53, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

(undent) Categories, lists, and navigation templates compares the various navigation methods. An excerpt: --Teratornis (talk) 19:23, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "These methods should not be considered to be in conflict with each other."


 * Thank you all. On closer study of the two lists, I see the 'neighbourhoods' in the category are generally speaking the larger neighbourhoods. This makes sense as these are the ones for which editors have seen fit to create articles.  Some (probably many) of the neighbourhoods in the Template are "sub-neighbourhoods" of those in the Category. Also some in the template are "sub-neighbourhoods" of others in the Template. The template might be said to be somewhat incestuous.  Is this can of worms worth opening? Wanderer57 (talk) 21:26, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

changing user name
Hey, please tell me how to quickly change my wikipedia user name... Thanks... Orenda53 (talk) 19:08, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There are a couple of options. You can register an entirely new account or you can look into requesting a username change. I don't know how quick either option is though. Cheers!  TN ‑ X - Man  19:15, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Creating an entirely new account will only take you ten minutes. CHU may take you a few days. However, if you use CHU, the contribs of your present account will get carried over to your new account, while a new account is a blank slate.  bibliomaniac 1  5  04:33, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Rules for writing articles about websites
Can you point me to a relevant 'Help' article if one does not exist can you give me the general jist of the rules regarding creating articles about websites, mainly websites hosted by Wikia.

-- Semaj draehs -Talk page- if you want to talk to me do so via the previous talk page link. 20:16, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The guidelines for writing articles about websites can be found at WP:WEB. It lists the generally accepted guidelines for what makes an acceptable article about a website. Cheers!  TN ‑ X - Man  20:19, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, Wikia sites fall under the same guideline as other websites.  TN ‑ X - Man  20:20, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * WP:WEB is mainly a guideline about whether a website should have an article. At WikiProject Websites and WikiProject Websites/Sample there are some suggestions about how to write a website article. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:07, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

New policy?
Is there a new policy where every survivor (and possibly the fatalities) of airline crashes are to be memorialized with redirects to the incident/crash that they were involved in? I ask because of the numerous redirects that User:WhisperToMe (contribs) is setting up. Dismas |(talk) 21:48, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Cross posting this to The administrator's noticeboard for incidents. Yes, do know that Whisper is an admin. NuclearWarfare  contact me My work  21:54, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Where are the various language character sets that were on the Edit page?
Please can we have back or let me know what has happened to the list of characters in other European langauge scripts, such as the French accents - acute, grave, cedilla, etc., and the Cyrillic script, the Polish "barred l" character, all these I've use in edits the last week or two. In fact I would expect the list to be here on this page now, below where I'm typing. I was going to correct the word "Francais" which may know should have a cedilla in the middle, but I'm stuck, and cant do it in a simple way like I used to. There yesterday, gone today! P0mbal (talk) 22:55, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's still there, just moved underneath the Save page buttons etc for some reason. There is a drop down box that displays different elements on selection. Have a try. Nanonic (talk) 23:04, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh and the announcement was made two days ago at Village pump (technical), apparently it's been in the pipeline for quite a while. Nanonic (talk) 23:07, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, but sorry, I dont have a drop-down box where you said, below the Save page etc buttons (and others presumably have the same problem) - this is what I have: Do not copy text from other websites without a GFDL-compatible license. It will be deleted. Copy and paste: – — … ‘ “ ’ ” ° ″ ′ ≈ ≠ ≤ ≥ ± − × ÷ ← → · §  Sign your posts on talk pages:

–   { – }   |   []                undefined   undefined      ""

P0mbal (talk) 23:23, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You seem to be getting the version for users who either do not have javascript enabled or who do not have a browser that supports javascript (i.e. your edit box looks like this instead of this). Some other users have reported the same thing on the thread I linked in my earlier post, if it hasn't resolved itself for you - I would consider posting there to say you are experiencing the same thing. Nanonic (talk) 23:54, 22 August 2008 (UTC)