Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 December 16

= December 16 =

Assessing articles
How does one assess an "unassessed" article? I have asked a reputable editor this and he does not know the answer. I know it's probably something that only, like, admins can do or something, but if not, how do I? --timothymh (talk) 01:45, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Anyone can assess, but if an article is within the purview of a particular WikiProject, that project's criteria should be considered. For more see WP:ASSESS. – ukexpat (talk) 02:05, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Articles can assessed from stub class all the way to B class. There are specific processes for Good Articles, A class articles, and Featured Content. Cheers!  TN ‑  X   - Man  14:59, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * But I still don't understand HOW to assess an article. For instance, on the Cabot, Vermont article, there is no button that says "assess" or anything. I understand about the order that the ranks come in and what criteria they need. timothymh (talk) 21:11, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Go to Talk:Cabot, Vermont. Click on "edit". You should see templates (which look like this: ). Add |class=B (or whatever class you would like to assess the article as) into the template right before the closing brackets.  TN ‑  X   - Man  21:22, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Infobox problems
I'm trying to insert a relevant source in the Pakistan article, but for some reason whenever I remove the 1st reference (after official language: English) in the infobox it messes up the format. It doesn't seem to be an anchored cite. What am I doing wrong? Copana2002 (talk) 01:01, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It worked fine when I removed the link. Perhaps you didn't select the entire citation thing ( tag )?--  Max   Talk [ (+)] 01:13, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I guess I am just challenged when it comes to infoboxes. Copana2002 (talk) 01:20, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Question about portal/template
&mdash; neuro(talk) 05:14, 16 December 2008 (UTC) Does anybody know why "" is there at the Portal:Tibet (picture)? I can't get rid of it. Thx. Davin (talk) 02:28, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * And I don't know how to center it. Could you look please? Davin (talk) 02:29, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * According to Portal:Tibet/Selected article/Layout it is a parameter for adding the image caption. – ukexpat (talk) 02:42, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If it is bare, it means it is not an optional parameter, and the parameter does not have a specified value. As a quick fix you could put something like a non-breaking space, but otherwise someone needs to look at the template and make it optional (if required). &mdash; neuro(talk) 03:42, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you both. I'm still not able to fix it. Above, under "Did you know" is which I cannot remove either. I need some sleep now. I someone could fix it for me, I would wake up very happily tomorrow! Otherwise, I'll have to watch tomorrow again. Thanks again! Davin (talk) 04:02, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Issue was use of the parameter "caption", it wanted "text". &mdash; neuro(talk) 05:14, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. Davin (talk) 12:58, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Geobox - River - Using _type for coordinates
''This request was placed originally on the Geobox/Legend talk page; see the talk page entry. A helpme request was made subsequently on my own talk page.''

Can more detail be given on how to use the _type field for coordinates? I am using the Geobox river version, and would like to add the parameter "region:CA-ON" to the mouth coordinates in addition to the "type:landmark" which seems to be automatically generated. I have tried adding an additional line | mouth_type = _region:CA-ON, but the parameter does not seem to get passed. Only the "type:landmark" alone is passed. I am editing the page West Highland Creek. Looking at the West Highland Creek page, I can see that using the code  changes the word "Mouth" in the infobox to "_region:CA-ON". I have also tried deleting the leading underscore from the mouth-type parameter value, which produces no change.--papageno (talk) 03:19, 16 December 2008 (UTC) The Template:Geobox/legend section seems to suggest that the  fields can contain parameters that are passed to the coord template. The Geobox template already seems to generate automatically the  parameter for river source and mouth coordinates. I would also like to pass the parameter. Update: I have just been playing around, and the field  and   seems to work. Weird though, that did not work previously. Also, right now, the  parameter is not being passed. Perhaps someone is editing right now as I edit? Anyway, have made changes on West Highland Creek, so one can see the good code in action. --papageno (talk) 16:48, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's certainly a complex template. Can you describe how you would like the displayed text to appear? For me at least, it would be easier to work backwards from what you want to display rather than starting with the template parameters. &mdash;Noah 05:38, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll respond on your talk page. &mdash;Noah 16:51, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The discussion continued, and the matter is resolved for me personally. However, an outcome of the discussion was a suggested change to the Geobox documentation in the Template:Geobox/legend section, where it is suggested an update be made (bold = suggested addition): "For every location type which can be described in coordinates, there exist two additional fields
 * _coordinates_type (named coordinates_type for the main location), which can contain any paramteres…"
 * An expert involved with the Geobox should comment on / review the suggested change.--papageno (talk) 19:31, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I've made the changes to Geobox/Legend myself, and added _ too.--papageno (talk) 17:24, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

madison pettis
what happen to Madison Pettis's mom and Her dad? does Madison pettis have her own grandparents? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.194.214.9 (talk) 05:12, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This page is for Wikipedia related questions. You want WP:RD. &mdash; neuro(talk) 05:16, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Article referencing
Would it be appropriate if a highly reliable source is stated as the only major reference link in an article, e.g. if I want to start a list article regarding the awards recieved by a certain musician, would the award list on his homepage be a sufficient reference to base the whole article? Leif edling (talk) 08:42, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No, it's possible for people to conflate(sp?) the awards on their userpage. Most noteworthy awards will be covered at the sites of the awards themselves or in the press. It's better to include those as sources and only use the homepage as a backup. - Mgm|(talk) 10:51, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If you take a look at our verifiability policy, you'll see that "articles should rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy." A person's own website is self-serving—the very opposite of a third party source, and in most cases, has no reputation whatever for fact-checking and accuracy. That policy also has a section specifically addressing self-published and other questionable sources, which this would fall under.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Using photo threads on forums to reference
I have to reference the uniform and the vehicles of Lebanese Commando Regiment, and there is no article that explains their uniform and equipment. So i was thinking, can i reference a photos thread on a military photos forum which has photos for this military unit?? --Zaher1988 (talk) 15:29, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Forums and blogs are not considered reliable sources; hoaxes and misinformation are not unheard of in such places. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  16:45, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Of course, if the blog happens to be maintained by an expert (and it can be proven to be this person and not an impersonator) it would be an acceptable source. -- Mgm|(talk) 17:26, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm speaking about photos in a thread not text, I mean you look at the photo you will see that this solider is actually a commando regiment soldier, thus this will be a reference for the uniform, moreover, the thread has photos for their vehicles with their insignia on them and painted with their camouflage etc..., do these still make a bad reference???? --Zaher1988 (talk) 21:34, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * In this era of Photoshop and CGI, I'd say that this means these are still bad references (although Mgm has a point). -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  14:04, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The thread has around 2000 posts, not only couple, some posts have a series of photos from the same event. So if there is something wrong, well it will be obvious and the members on those forums will be saying that. --Zaher1988 · Talk 22:56, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Printing Color
Is there a way to print comparison tables with the colored shading, i.e. "Comparison of remote desktop software"? The Print version command & Print Preview using two different printers on my pc do not show the shading will be printed and it isn't. Other color for icons & screen images does appear! Thanks, 70.217.13.84 (talk) 16:13, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I know there is, but I can't think of what it is. There is some setting somewhere - anyway, here is a quick fix I whipped up for you. :) &mdash; neuro(talk) 17:16, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You need to set your browser to print backgrounds. Under FireFox, it is File > Page Setup > Print Backgrounds. --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  19:15, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Ask a question
I want to start a discussion on the meaning or origin of the word, "brand" in the phrase "brand new." How do I post that question for general discussion? Pburri (talk) 17:16, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you may find the answer to your question at brand new. Cheers!  TN ‑  X   - Man  17:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Or you could ask your question at the Reference Desk Chemical Weathering (talk) 13:28, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you'll find that the explanation given here is more reliable than the Wiktionary entry. Deor (talk) 14:33, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

DEFAULTSORT Conflict With Listas Parameter
I am slowly cleaning up the Biography pages without the listas parameter and on Xavier Suarez got an error that it conflicted with the DEFAULTSORT. So I went to the article page, found the only DEFAULTSORT on the page, copied the name, went back to the Talk page, looked in vain for a DEFAULTSORT on the page and pasted the name after listas=. I still got the error message.

When I went to the Category:Pages with DEFAULTSORT conflicts I found a couple of thousand pages. The first biography, Abraham Izak Perold, is listed under "A" and nothing I have tried will force it into "P".

Is something not working right or do I not understand what I am seeing?
 * JimCubb (talk) 18:47, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * My guess (and that's all it is) is that there is a conflict between DEFAULTSORT and the listas parameter. Have you tried removing the listas to see if it corrects the problem?  TN ‑  X   - Man  18:59, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, here's what I discovered by editing Xavier Suarez. Removing the listas and re-adding the DEFAULTSORT removes the warning message. The article is listed last-name first in the categories in the article. However, it is listed first-name first in the Bio Wikiproject (the categories on the talk page).  TN ‑  X   - Man  19:08, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem at Talk:Xavier Suarez was that listas was specified on WPBiography but not on WPFlorida. Like many project templates, WPFlorida sets DEFAULTSORT to the page name if listas is not specified—thus creating a conflict. —teb728 t c 22:20, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Where was it? I have gone back through the Talk Pages and can not find the word listas, DEFAULTSORT, or his first name followed by his last name. The listas belongs in the Project Bio template but was not there before I appeared on the scene. Dr. Perold's talk page do not have his name or anything that would resemble his name anywhere on it. The article has, surrounded by double braces, DEFAULTSORT:Perold, Abraham Izak. When I put listas=Perold, Abraham Izak in the project template, I get the error message.
 * JimCubb (talk) 19:52, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The listas parameter is part of the template. From what I understand, it functions much the same way as DEFAULTSORT. The two parameters appear to conflict with each other.  TN ‑   X   - Man  20:03, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, reading the template documentation, listas is supposed to do for talk pages what DEFAULTSORT does for the main articles, but it appears to cause a conflict.  TN ‑  X   - Man  20:07, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I finally the original discussion for this. The problem is being discussed at Template_talk:WPBiography. That's where you need to go. Cheers!  TN ‑  X   - Man  20:11, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

template
How do i create one? Wilkos (talk) 20:18, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Go to (replace with the title) and create away. However, please familiarize yourself with Help:Template beforehand. Cheers!  TN ‑   X   - Man  20:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's often best to practice first with a user subpage as your sandbox, for example: User:Wilkos/Sandbox, which you can transclude with: . That way you don't have to worry about someone coming along and deleting your template before you get it working. Also see WP:DOC for instructions on how to document your template properly. For your template to be useful to other editors, they must easily be able to figure out how to use it. Rather than start your template completely from scratch, first search the Template: namespace to find an existing template that is close to what you want. Copy that template to your sandbox page and modify it. --Teratornis (talk) 21:39, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Redlinked image related to moving from wikipedia to commons
I uploaded Image:AcroLawnmower.gif to wikipedia awhile back. Later, someone else moved it to wikimedia commons and deleted the image from wikipedia. The image still appears properly in acro dance (on my computer anyway, although I'm not sure whether it's a locally cached image). A determined editor keeps deleting the image from acro dance, presumably because he sees it in the redlinked images list. What's going on here, and how can I keep the image out of the redlinked list? Lambtron (talk) 20:31, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Having your image moved to Commons is fine, and does not effect the way the article appears in the article. The editor in question is removing the image for some other reason, presumably because he/she does not feel it belongs in the article. The proper thing to do is discuss the image's inclusion on the article's talk page, and see if some understanding/consensus can be reached. -Seidenstud (talk) 21:09, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, Seidenstud. The image was removed from the article twice by the same editor. The editor in question has not replied to my query about this, so I have formulated a hypothesis based on the known facts. The edit summary for the first removal was clean up & rm redlinked image, removed Image:AcroLawnmower.gif. No edit summary was given for the second removal, so I assume the same reason. When I click on the image in acro dance I am taken to a page that states ''This page does not currently exist. You can search for this page title in other pages or create this page.'' Also, the image is listed as redlinked, probably because it "doesn't exist." Instead of repeatedly explaining all of this—after the fact—to every editor who removes this "non-existent" image, I would prefer to learn why the image doesn't exist and how I can make this problem go away forever. Does anyone know how to resolve this? Lambtron (talk) 21:55, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * commons:File:AcroLawnmower.gif is in a weird state. It has a file but no image description page history. I have never seen an image like that. —teb728 t c 22:06, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I thought I might try creating the image page and/or uploading the image again, but I don't want to make things worse than they already are. Ideas, anyone? Lambtron (talk) 22:18, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * It was redlinked because the uploader didn't properly copy the information along with the file. I fixed that now, so it should be good. - Mgm|(talk) 23:36, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The Commons file is lacking a copyright tag. Did the Wikipedia file have one? —teb728 t c 23:48, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I originally released it to Public Domain, but I don't know how to restore Public Domain status to the commons image. Can someone advise? Lambtron (talk) 00:33, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Edit Commons:File:AcroLawnmower.gif and add PD-self —teb728 t c 00:45, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Article was deleted and replaced with useless info
I was looking for an article about the Inuit people; however, the article must have had all of its content deleted as all that was in it were the words "inuits are cool". This annoyed me and I was wondering why someone would replace useful information with an irrelevant remark. Would it be possible for the article to be changed back to what it used to be before it was, and I use this word loosely, vandalized? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.223.78.2 (talk) 21:00, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The vandalism has been reverted by J Delanoy and you can see the difference now at Inuit. Thank you for reporting it!  TN ‑  X   - Man  21:04, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * For more information see Help:Revert and WP:VANDAL. In the future, you can fix vandalism to unprotected articles yourself, but if the instructions are too tedious to figure out, just report the vandalism here and another user will revert it. As to why Wikipedia allows (even tacitly encourages) this nonsense, see Perennial proposals (I find the arguments there surprisingly weak for a foundation issue) and User:Jimbo Wales/Statement of principles. Of course Wikipedia has to make numerous exceptions to the let anybody edit anything rule, because some edits (e.g. to high-use templates) are so efficiently destructive that not even Jimbo's idealistic faith in the goodness of adolescent males overrides the need to restrict access. --Teratornis (talk) 21:28, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Logging into my alternative account
After several attempts, I'm unable to log into my alternative account, and I'm not sure what's wrong. –Juliancolton Happy Holidays 21:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * What is the specific error you get? &mdash; neuro(talk) 23:24, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Upon clicking the log in button, it brings me to the main page. –Juliancolton Happy Holidays 01:25, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * What happens if you try to click this link rather than the one on the interface? - Mgm|(talk) 05:41, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Want to copy articles on wikipedia onto my website
Hi I want to start a website on the Western Front WW1. I'm I able to do so so that I don't land in trouble.

I'm no writer so really it's a website that will have all information, battles, maps etc... in one place. Can I copy the Wikipedia article on the specific battle articles for example also use maps and so forth.

Many thanks,

James —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.109.146.39 (talk) 22:40, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * See Copyrights, specifically the Reusers' rights and obligations section. Basically, you have to license your website under the GNU Free Documentation License and properly credit the authors of the article you're copying, plus provide a link back to the original article. Xenon54 (Frohe Feiertage!) 22:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Writing a bibliography about wikipedia?
I need to know either the sight editor,page author, sight compiler, or sight compiler for writing a bibliography. Where do I find that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.48.175.139 (talk) 23:48, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Do you mean generally? If so, to cite a book, you would format it like this:
 * Best wishes, Peter Symonds ( talk ) 23:54, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Best wishes, Peter Symonds</b> ( talk ) 23:54, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * If you're asking about citing Wikipedia specifically, there's a link on the left side that says "Cite this page"; try starting from there. HTH, Hermione1980 23:57, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * For citing Wikipedia there is more information and advice at WP:CITEWIKI. —teb728 t c 00:08, 17 December 2008 (UTC)