Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 December 3

= December 3 =

Journalistic
What's the template that should be used if an article is written in a journalistic style/obviously copied from a news source? Or should it just be deleted or something? Petero9 (talk) 00:05, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * See Template:Copyvio. You can use that template or any of the ones in the see also section according to your need. If it is a blatant copyright violation it must be deleted under WP:CSD criteria G12. Cheers.  C h a m a l  talk 00:30, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

How??
How do you set up a wikipedia page for someone? This is not easy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.201.10.75 (talk) 00:14, 3 December 2008
 * [[Image:Symbol move vote.svg|20px]] Please see Your first article.


 * 1) Ensure that you have an account and you are logged in. If you don't have an account, create one
 * 2) Make sure the subject is notable enough to have their own article
 * 3) Find references
 * 4) Make sure no article on the subject exists under a different title by typing the subject into the search box to the left (←) and clicking 'Search'
 * 5) Type the page name in the search box to the left (←) and click 'Go'
 * 6) Click 'Create this page'
 * 7) Create the article, including all your references, making sure you adhere to the Manual of Style and our article layout guidelines
 * 8) Be aware that Wikipedia deletes thousands of new articles for failing to adhere to our policies and guidelines. New articles by new users are at extra risk of deletion, due to new users' unfamiliarity with our rules. Consider gaining experience by editing existing articles before attempting to create new ones You might also want to read WP:BIO. Cheers.  C h a m a l  talk 00:25, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Templates not updating?
User:TonyTheTiger made some edits to a whole bunch of cities, to add references to Template:CA_cities_and_mayors_of_100,000_population, which all was fine. But I noticed that the text being displayed for those links, for instance at the bottom of Sunnyvale,_California contained poor English ("in the California", for instance). So he fixed that text on the template. It displays correctly on the template page now, but not in any of the references on the cities' pages (look for the blue external reference at the bottom of any major CA city's page referring to 100k population). Why didn't these get updated as part of his change? Is there a lag involved because of pages needing to be rebuilt? Jokeboy (talk) 01:10, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If templates are trascluded, you need to WP:PURGE your browser cache, so your browser loads a fresh copy of the template. - Mgm|(talk) 01:19, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That the page needs to be purged is not a proper solution because this is a problem for persons who do not have cached versions of the page stored. This is a different problem unrelated to purging.  See my thread above on the same issue.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:39, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Mgm gave the right link to WP:PURGE but described it wrong. Purging is not about the browser cache. It is about Wikipedia's own cache. Purging an article fixes the problem, but don't purge all those articles for this detail. The articles are placed in the job queue when the template is edited and they will automatically be updated at some time. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:32, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oops. - Mgm|(talk) 08:40, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Great, that worked just fine, as expected. Now a related question.  Is there a way to do a mass purge of all pages that refer to a common template?  Or is the only option to wait until the servers update all of the pages on their own?  Having to go and manually purge fifty pages just because of a minor template update is annoying.  Jokeboy (talk) 08:18, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You could see if there's a bot that does it, although I'm not sure how exactly to look for it User:PurgeBot does not exist. - Mgm|(talk) 08:40, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Restore logs
How come when searching through the logs of admins, there is no option to search for restore logs? Every other log can be searched except this. Can one be made? 137.154.73.31 (talk) 02:01, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Do you mean the log of page undeletions? They're listed in with the deletion log - for example, "15:42, 3 December 2008 Skier Dude (Talk | contribs) restored "Image:The Hudsucker Proxy Movie.jpg" ‎ (2 revisions and 1 file restored)". Confusing Manifestation (Say hi!) 05:53, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

electrical field
what is blackout? what are the causes of this blackout? how to prevent blackout?
 * Have you tried the Science section of Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in answering knowledge questions there; this help desk is only for questions about using Wikipedia. For your convenience, here is the link to post a question there: click here. I hope this helps. Algebraist 02:13, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * You could simply try searching for Blackout which gives you several meanings to investigate. - Mgm|(talk) 08:42, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Citation Question
When citing a book that is on Project Gutenberg, should I cite it as a book or as a web site? Horselover Frost (talk) 05:49, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * since it's a book, i'd cite it as a book, no matter what it's about. Sssoul (talk) 07:34, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd cite whatever it was you used. If you used an online version, I'd cite the specific version I used, since digitized copies of a book can contain errors the original didn't have. - Mgm|(talk) 08:43, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Hayley Williams
To whom this may concern,

Hello, my name is Marvin Smith and I am an avid fan of the band Paramore. The lead singer, Hayley Williams does not have a Wikipedia page, instead it gets directed to original Paramore page. I believe that she deserves her own page because she is a rising star in the music industry being rated the "Second Sexiest Rockstar," in the new Guitar Hero game and has a prominent role on the hit film Twilight's Soundtrack. Is there any I start a new page because I have recently opened a new account. This has been bothering me for a long time.

Regards,

Marvin —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fueledbyhayley (talk • contribs) 02:03, 3 December 2008 — Fueledbyhayley (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * see Chamal's reply here: WP:Help_desk Sssoul (talk) 07:42, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Citation Needed
Several awards listed on the Mr. Rogers page say "citation needed," nearly all of which could be taken care of in one fell swoop. The problem is, well, me. My computer skills are...Actually, I don't have any. I tried to add the link several times, but had too quit because my brains tried to make a break of it out of frustration. I don't know if this request is something I'm allowed to make. If it isn't, apologies...blame my squishy brain.

The web address for the link is:

http://cdn.emmys.tv/awards/halloffame/hofarchive.php

Can I ask if somebody could pop over to the page and add the citation? I read all the instructions (more than once, sadly)but I'm not kidding or trying to be disingenuous. I'm about as computer literate as a baby three day before birth.

Thank you kindly- GoingBonkers (talk) 07:31, 3 December 2008 (UTC)Shannon a.k.a. Going Bonkers


 * I've fixed the reference you were trying to add; the simple way to do this is to add around what you are adding as a reference (with the abc part being the actual reference). I also added some other information to it, which is usually done but not required, such as the access date and publisher and so on. WP:Cite has more information on this if you want it. Alexius  Horatius 07:48, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The three basic instruction pages you need are WP:FOOT, WP:CITE, and WP:CITET. Mastering footnotes on Wikipedia is not simple. Could we make it simpler? Maybe, but nobody seems to know how to make Wikipedia simpler to build while maintaining Wikipedia's status as one of the world's most popular Web sites. Becoming the best in the world at just about anything skill-based is rarely simple. For example, it was not simple for Michael Phelps to win all those gold medals. He has a lot of talent, but he also had to put his whole life into his training for the past N years. Similarly, it is not simple to become a musical virtuoso, nor to start the company that becomes the next Google. If Wikipedia ever does manage to make it simple for new users to create featured articles, that would probably imply that computers had passed the Turing test and humans were on the way to becoming obsolete. Assuming you are human, you should probably be glad that learning to edit on Wikipedia is still difficult. Once computers are smart enough to make this job truly effortless, I doubt computers will still have much need for people. --Teratornis (talk) 21:21, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

access of links
I am a student at Northern Arizona University. I am on finals week here and am trying to review for a anatomy final. I tried to access some links, diagrams and pictures that said i must request in order to view. They were in the restricted place. Any help would be appreciated, thank you.
 * It would help if you gave some article titles, but based on what you said, I suspect you're talking about redlinks - articles or other material that hasn't yet been created. - Mgm|(talk) 08:46, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Another possibility is that the questioner is Astray, perhaps confusing Wikipedia's article about Northern Arizona University with some Web site associated with that subject. A university Web site could well have the kinds of access restrictions the questioner refers to. On Wikipedia we don't have any "restricted places" when it comes to article content. There are some restricted features that only privileged users such as administrators can see, but this has no relation to article content. The behavior the questioner describes does not sound like Wikipedia, it sounds more like a university site. --Teratornis (talk) 21:36, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Changing from an anonymous edit to my user name
Hi - I changed this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Tobin but didn't realise I wasn't logged in (I'll blame Google Chrome :)

I would like to change the anonymous edit I did into my user name. Is this possible?

Horrgakx (talk) 11:02, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The only thing I can think of would be to undo the edit and redo it while logged on. Seems really unnecessary though. Unless you're referring to an edit on a talk page which you haven't signed while logged on. If that's the case, just log in and sign after what you typed. Best, Zain Ebrahim (talk) 11:40, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * You may not want to do that. Occasionally, an editor will be logged out without recognizing it and post to a discussion, thus their IP shows as their signature. After the editor realizes this, they may log in and replace the signature. This may not be a good thing, as WikiScanner now trawls the database looking for these replacements and logs them at Poor Man's Checkuser. --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  12:11, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

language link
there are two articles that are the same but one is in english and the other in spanish.. how do i make the english/spanish link appear in the language box of each article? thanks Johnwilen (talk) 11:22, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I trust you mean that one article is on the Spanish Wikipedia while the other is here on the English Wikipedia. Assuming that, you would go to the Spanish version, click on the "edit this page" link, scroll all the way to the bottom of the article and put in ARTICLE TITLE (replace the "ARTICLE TITLE" with the actual title of the English version's title.  Then go to the English version and do the same except this time, you'll use "es" instead of "en".  For more on this, see Help:Interlanguage links.  Dismas |(talk) 11:15, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * thanks!! Johnwilen (talk) 11:22, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Dutch names
How to pronounce(IPA) the Dutch mathematicians Jan Arnoldus Schouten&Albert Nijenhuis(in Schouten-Nijenhuis bracket)?--刻意 12:52, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You'd probably be better off at the Language section of the Reference desk. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 12:58, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your suggestion.--刻意 13:26, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

how do i reference a journal cited in wikipedia
I am writing a paper which calls for me to reference the DSM-IV-TR for the definition of the word conduct disorder. This journal (DSM) is not avail online and I don't have access to a copy of it. Wikipedia references this journal in its definition of conduct disorder. How to I properly cite in my paper that I'm using Wik's reference to DSM? Must use APA style.
 * Take a look at WP:Citing Wikipedia. Cheers!  TN ‑  X   - Man  16:12, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Have you checked your library? If they don't have it they may also be able to request a copy of the pages you need.  RJFJR (talk) 19:12, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Our Conduct disorder article does a rather sloppy reference to the DSM-IV-TR. Someone who has read WP:FOOT, WP:CITE, and WP:CITET should edit the inline reference to follow the proper Wikipedia footnote style. The reference you refer to appears to be:
 * The diagnostic criteria for Conduct Disorder (codes 312.xx, with xx representing digits which vary depending upon the severity, onset, etc. of the disorder) as listed in the DSM-IV-TR are as follows:
 * There is also a DSM-IV Codes article. Evidently you are asking how you should cite the DSM-IV-TR codes 312.xx section which gives the diagnostic criteria for Conduct Disorder, using APA style. Are you writing this paper for schoolwork? If so, you should ask your instructor about whether you can cite Wikipedia - many college professors mark students down for citing encyclopedias. Since the DSM is such a major work, it must be in almost every large library, so if you can't find a copy of the codes 312.xx section online, you could look it up in the paper copy at your library, see it with your own eyes, and cite that. Also see our APA style article. You might get some help by Googling:
 * That finds a bunch of clues, including:
 * The Writing Center » How to Cite and Reference the DSM-IV-TR
 * --Teratornis (talk) 21:01, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I look forward to the day when the APA embraces copyleft, puts the DSM under the GFDL, publishes it online, and adds a new disorder to the DSM: the propensity to hoard information, which is clearly antisocial behavior. The APA currently suffers from this disorder. --Teratornis (talk) 21:41, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I look forward to the day when the APA embraces copyleft, puts the DSM under the GFDL, publishes it online, and adds a new disorder to the DSM: the propensity to hoard information, which is clearly antisocial behavior. The APA currently suffers from this disorder. --Teratornis (talk) 21:41, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Rollback
How do you add a request for Rollback?  Hairy Perry  16:06, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Requests for permissions has all of the instructions. Cheers!  TN ‑  X   - Man  16:17, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Alternatively, you could approach any administrator. Up to you. —Cyclonenim (talk · contribs · email) 16:18, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand the instructions on what to do, could somebody help me, please.  Hairy Perry  17:35, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure, which part are you getting hung up on?  TN ‑  X   - Man  17:36, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

The whole thing, I go to add the request, but it says I have to fill stuff in and I don't kow what its talking about. Something about copying and pasting that line I got that much, but what to fill in there I'm not sure about.  Hairy Perry  17:39, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * @HairyPerry: You did it quite well not even a month ago. :) You can add your request now just as you did it then. —αἰτίας •'discussion'• 17:48, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

The one I remember putting in, it wasn't quite like that, I didn't have to make a template or anything, I just put in my re2quest like everybody elses.  Hairy Perry  17:50, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Simply add:




 * here. —αἰτίας •'discussion'• 17:58, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind I got it, Thanks,  Hairy Perry  18:00, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The instructions in the comments of the page had been messed up a week or so ago. I went ahead and fixed them so this won't happen again.  Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 18:54, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Wiktionary
Since Wiktionary is a sister project to Wikipedia would a link to it be considered an internal link or is it a separate entity? Copana2002 (talk) 17:25, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess it's technically an external link (as it links to a different website), but it falls under the same Wikimedia umbrella. So . . . both? For the record, you can type definition of Soophisticated to produce definition of Sophisticated. Cheers!  TN ‑  X   - Man  17:43, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I would consider it an external link, since we have special boxes for wiktionary links that are supposed to go in the external links section. - Mgm|(talk) 19:49, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Printing issue
Hello,

I am trying to print out the page that I made for the company I work for "CleveMed" and when I do print it out, the 2nd and 3rd page print out blank. I printed it yesterday and it was fine. Here is the page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CleveMed

Username is Dmalicki.

Thank you!
 * On the left hand side of every article under toolbox you will notice a feature titled "Printable Version". Click that and then print the page you want. Hope this helps!-- intraining  Jack In  17:59, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I have nominated it for speedy deletion as blatant advertising pursuant to WP:CSD, so you may want to print it sooner rather than later. – ukexpat (talk) 18:11, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Deleted Page
I try to create Calgary And District Cricket League, and every time I do that its deleted, Its not advertisement of any type, is information for people, its a Sports thats been played in Calgary since 1908. I am not promoting any profitable thing. can I know why is that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nadeem.altaf (talk • contribs) 18:36, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * It has been deleted twice, neither time for being advertising: first in August 2007 as a copyright violation, second in September 2008 under WP:CSD as not providing sufficient context for the reader. If you wish to re-create it, please read WP:YFA, WP:N, WP:RS and WP:Spam to get you going. – ukexpat (talk) 18:56, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The article to which he is referring is actually Calgary & District Cricket League which was G11ed earlier today. Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 19:00, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ooops, I was looking at Calgary and District Cricket League... – ukexpat (talk) 19:11, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Deleted article
Hello,

I noticed that a page I created was deleted due to blatant advertising after I clearly made the article out to be NOT advertising related. What would you recommend me to do for the recreation of the page to get it posted properly? I want to be able to use the same name of the article as well, "CleveMed". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dmalicki (talk • contribs)


 * It was nominated for deletion by me and deleted by OrangeMike. I also note that it was actually created by User:Jerushamichael. Even though it was not intended to be advertising, it read as if it was written by the company's PR agency. I would suggest that you re-create it as a user subpage first and have it reviewed by a few editors before it is moved to the mainspace. I have created a subpage for you at User:Dmalicki/CleveMed. Also please read WP:YFA, WP:CORP, WP:Spam and WP:RS. – ukexpat (talk) 19:17, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * And read WP:WWMPD. --Teratornis (talk) 20:19, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It is possible that this firm is notable enough that it should have an article; but the deleted article was not that article. And the persistent efforts of this user (Dmalicki, formerly Jerushamichael before getting locked out; see query several paragraphs above this one) to have their name changed to CleveMed indicate a deepseated conflict of interest and a failure to understand our COI rules. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  14:51, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Adding images to articles
I'm sorry to ask so many dumb questions. I uploded 2 images that apparently did make it here. My questions are about getting the images into my article. Do I hit the part that says image gallery on the edit page? How would I type the command in for an image simply called Image: Slide 15? I tried to use the form that other images use, but the caption comes on, but not the image. Thanks Jim Jimmarsmars (talk) 19:44, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I see one of the images at Image:Slide15.JPG (note no space between "Slide" and "15" and JPG in caps), using similar logic, Image:Slide14.jpg appears to be an unrelated image. Did you get any error messages when you uploaded?. – ukexpat (talk) 20:00, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I did not get any error message.


 * OK further research reveals that they are both on Commons. The problem is that there is already a file on Wikipedia called Slide14.jpg. The problem would probably be solved by renaming both images with more descriptive names. – ukexpat (talk) 20:17, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I wanted to rename but did not know how or how to get to where I they could be renamed. Thanks Jim Jimmarsmars (talk) 20:26, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * You received a welcome message on your Commons talk page with a number of links one of which deals with renaming. In any event, you have to re-upload the images, but make sure that on the upload form, you put the name you want to use in the "Destination filename" box. When they have been re-uploaded, you should then go to the old image pages and tag them for deletion using Commons'  template, replacing the correct name text with the new file name. Hope this helps. – ukexpat (talk) 20:54, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Somehow, I reuploaded the images and put them in an article. I also was able to upload some other images and added them to articles. I'm trying to do the deletion thing. I'm completely lost on this so far. I read the pages over and over. I guess I have to keep reading them and pray for some inspiration. I see things about putting them in categories so others can use them. That's a good idea, but agian I'm lost so I'll have to read some more. I feel like a rat in a maze, a dumb rat. Thanks for your patience. I'm sorry I'm old and dumb.


 * If you find yourself asking a lot of questions as you try to do things on the English Wikipedia or on Commons, that means you haven't spent enough time reading the friendly manuals here or on Commons. The instructions for virtually every task you can need to do on these sites are in writing somewhere. It's normal to have a few questions, but to make much headway on a do it yourself system like Wikipedia (or Commons), you have to figure out how to answer most of your own questions, which means figuring out where to look up the answers. The first step is to read a lot of our manuals so you get a general idea of the jargon we use, and where things are. Then study the search tools we use to answer questions on the Help desk. Reading the manuals is analogous to sharpening the axe before you chop down the tree. The more time you spend sharpening the axe, the less time you spend chopping the tree. If it feels like you are trying to chop down a tree with a brick, then you need to stop trying to do things, temporarily, and spend a few days reading the manuals. That's what everybody who can answer your questions has done. Also read Flow (psychology). To achieve the pleasant sensation of "flow" (where you know what to do, and everything is clicking), you must first invest considerable effort to develop skill, by studying the manuals. Without skill there is no flow. --Teratornis (talk) 23:43, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I might add that tasks relating to images tend to be harder than tasks relating to text around here. I only recently locked horns with Moving images to the Commons, for example, and it wasn't the easiest thing to learn on Wikipedia. One problem is that I don't see any sort of sandbox for images where a person could test the various tools and procedures. The only way to learn how to manipulate images is to actually manipulate real images, so every mistake one makes will tend to "count." This reflects an underlying principle of computing: it's much easier for computers to deal with symbols than images, so our tools and procedures for processing text are just a whole lot better. For text operations, we have sandboxes and tutorials, not to mention that you can look at wikitext to see what other people did, but for images, it's a lot harder to get started. --Teratornis (talk) 23:56, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Request for Work on Article
Where do I make such a request these days, now that the "expansion" list has been archived and more or less deactivated? Minaker (talk) 22:39, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Work by who, and on what article? Are you requesting that someone gives you work to do on some article that you don't know about yet, or do you want to ask someone else to work on a specific article you have in mind? Those are two different ways to interpret your question. On Wikipedia, needs tend to outnumber doers by a wide margin, so if you are asking for suggestions about work you can do, you'll have better luck than if you are looking for someone else to work on something that for some reason you are unable to do yourself. Wikipedia is primarily a do it yourself system anyway, so asking other people for extensive help tends to have a low percentage of quick success, although in the long run almost everything that really is important will probably get done. See WP:DEADLINE and WP:SOFIXIT. If there is an article that needs expanding, and you don't know how to expand it yourself, perhaps the simplest strategy would be to look for other articles that you do know how to expand. Pick the low-hanging fruit first. I've found lots of articles that are lacking sources, for example, and often good sources are but a Google search away. If you know how to make footnotes using citation templates, you can easily go around improving countless articles on Wikipedia. --Teratornis (talk) 00:07, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


 * You might have success at WikiProjects related to the article you have in mind. At least you'll find like-minded people there.- Mgm|(talk) 00:35, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Teratornis, to answer your question, I am looking for someone to expand the article on angels (my reasons are on that article's talk page). I can't do it myself, since I don't know enough about the subject. MacGyver, thanks for the tip. Minaker (talk) 06:23, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Much of the fun of Wikipedia is expanding articles one starts off knowing little about. Very little of what you see on Wikipedia is material that the authors could have written extemporaneously. What sort of research did you try for your question? --Teratornis (talk) 21:15, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I disagree that one should expand an article on a subject one knows little about. I'm not saying "never" but in general that doesn't seem like a good idea, leading to lots of opportunity for erroneous or incomplete information. I didn't do any research about the subject, to be honest with you. I just know that it's a relevant subtopic and deserves inclusion. Minaker (talk) 22:20, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

WP:NPW
Hey. Whenever I try to use WP:NPW I am not able to log in and this message is displayed “Login Failed, please check your username and password, and that you are connected to the internet.” always. I do have the latest version of WP:NPW as well as the latest version of .NET Framework. I'm also on the list of approved users. Can anyone help? :( —αἰτίας •'discussion'• 22:48, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Probably best to ask for help at User_talk:Martinp23/NPWatcher. &mdash;Noah 00:24, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Adding images and refrences to sources outside of wikipedia
I'm in the middle of writing an article about Matthew Bourne's Nutcracker!, and the pages explaing how to upload images and make references to outside sources i find very difficult to understand! Can anyone give me a step by step guide to doing these things? Thanks! S.3e.37 (talk) 23:11, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I've added a template to your talk page which you may find useful; check out the tutorial under "Getting started." Referencing for beginners also explains the basic of the referencing process, and Citing sources/example style gives you some examples. Before uploading any images, make sure to thoroughly read our image use policy. In a nutshell, it says that you can only upload pictures which are in the public domain, taken by you yourself, or released to the public under certain, specific fair use policies. If you're not sure about the copyright status of your pictures, ask for help from a more experienced editor prior to uploading them. You can also check Wikimedia Commons for photos which others have already uploaded, or search the Attribution License and Attribution-ShareAlike License sections of flickr commons. I'd recommend you sign up for a Wikimedia Commons account and upload your pictures there; there's a fairly straightforward upload form.


 * Bear in mind that writing an article from scratch is the most difficult way to ease into editing Wikipedia, but if you're committed, great! Continue browsing through the various manuals (there are some good links three posts above this one) and, if you find that your head is spinning, consider being adopted by a more experienced user who can help you along. --Fullobeans (talk) 00:20, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Are you trying to write a new article entirely from scratch? That is a hard thing to do on Wikipedia. The number of things you have to know literally fill a book (Wikipedia - The Missing Manual). The easiest way to approach Wikipedia is to start by making small edits to existing articles, so you don't have to learn everything all at once. But if you are determined to write a new article, which roughly amounts to running before walking, and then fend off the deletionists, and you don't want to buy the book, you will need to read (at least) these friendly manuals: WP:LAYOUT, WP:LEAD, WP:FOOT, WP:CITE, WP:CITET, WP:RS, WP:V, and WP:NPOV. Learning and understanding all that material well enough to create new articles that "stick" typically takes months, even for smart people. It's much easier to tackle the steps separately, for example you could read WP:LAYOUT and then look for articles that don't comply with it. There are some new-ish articles that have the standard sections in the wrong order, for example (with the "See also" section after the "External links" and so on). Then you could read WP:FOOT, WP:CITE, and WP:CITET, and learn how to make footnote references. There are lots of articles that have various ad hoc reference styles, which you can improve by editing them to proper footnotes with citation templates. Images are a whole additional nightmare of complexity, with difficulties of licensing, and whether and when to move images to the Commons, etc. It isn't humanly possible to grasp all of this stuff quickly, say in one day, unless you are smarter than anyone I've ever met. If you are that smart, I would like to hire you. I'm sure I'd think of some way to make money off of anyone who could learn this stuff in one day. Actually, I would just tell that person to make me rich, since he or she would know better than me how to do that. Of course if anyone was that smart, they would be smart enough to know better than to work for me, so this is purely hypothetical. --Teratornis (talk) 00:32, 4 December 2008 (UTC)