Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 December 30

= December 30 =

Editing Question
I have been editing Cherry Creek High School and have noticed that the state championships table is incomplete. I want to know how I could get a box to appear to show people that the list is incomplete. Thanks. (talk) 23:50, 29 December 2008 (UTC))


 * Use the template: listdev above the table. That should do exactly what you are looking for.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  03:32, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you so much! That was exactly what I wanted.(talk) 23:50, 29 December 2008 (UTC))

Userpage
Can someone make it so that the area between my userboxes is the same color as the area surrounding it? --Melab±1 &#9742; 03:11, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I got it. --  Max  Talk [ (+)] 04:17, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Request to be removed from blacklist
I have noticed my website www.homephotog.com has been blacklisted. Based on the talk logs it seems someone has associated the site with NICOclub.com which is not the case. The website is listed as a sponsor via a link exchange but is not associated with their network. I am requesting to have the site removed from the blacklist as it has never been referenced within Wikipedia at any time nor has it been involved in any of the issues that Wikipedia has had with the owner of NICOclub.

Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.28.58.16 (talk) 05:08, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe the place to go for that is meta:Talk:Spam_blacklist. However, be warned that at the very top of the page it says:


 * "Typically, we do not remove domains from the spam blacklist in response to site-owners' requests. Instead, we de-blacklist sites when trusted, high-volume editors request the use of blacklisted links because of their value in support of our projects. Please consider whether requesting whitelisting on a specific wiki for a specific use is more appropriate." -Seidenstud (talk) 07:43, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Wait, you have blacklisted a site that simply had links from another site that was giving you trouble in the past and the solution is for me to provide Wikipedia with content? What would be the purpose of having my site at all if I simply posted all my content on Wikipedia? This site has no prior association to Wiki and has never been involved with any form of "breach of policy" that deserved Wiki black listing. I honestly would not care other than others utilize your blacklist which can impact the amount of traffic I may receive. Why should I have to go the extra effort of trying to establish "whitelisting status" when my site is on your blacklist erroneously? Is the policy to simply assign "guilt by association" based on a link exchange? It honestly makes no sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.28.58.16 (talk) 11:13, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and thanks for the blacklist link. I was having problems finding where to request removal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.28.58.16 (talk) 11:15, 31 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I have commented on the meta page. Good luck.  -Seidenstud (talk) 12:01, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Automatic clean up script
Hi all,

Just wondering if anone can tell me what the name of the automatic clean up script for pages is? i seen someone use it a while ago and it rmeoved overuse of links and so for. Even the user who has it will be great :). It make my job for clean up guides a lot quicker and easier--Andrewcrawford (talk) 14:36, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I think you may be referring to AutoWikiBrowser, but there's a large number of automated or semi-automated editing tools. See Tools/Editing tools for more information. — Manti  core  14:55, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

number of articles created
I could find the number of edits (under my preferences, the help says misleadingly under my profile) but I could not find, or there is not, a way to show which articles I created. Cinnamon colbert (talk) 15:25, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The link is down at the moment, but I believe this is what you need. Cheers!  TN ‑  X   - Man  15:28, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Alphabets used
Is there any way to use Hebrew letters in Wikipedia (specifically, the Hebrew letter aleph, for the purpose of discussing Cantor's infinite cardinal numbers, such as Aleph0)? 72.197.202.36 (talk) 17:03, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes. You could just use א, but the consensus seems to be to use $$\aleph$$ in mathematical articles: $$\aleph$$. Algebraist 17:06, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Embedded lists
Just for a little clarification on their use... In sorting through fashion model articles and coming across the use of embedded lists such as those in Alek Wek and Eva Riccobono, my policy was to remove the list and reduce their notable examples to prose within the article, based on WP:EMBED. Lists of such size/detail and repetitiveness seem unencyclopedic and also appear to conflict with WP:UNDUE. Not to mention, they seem unnecessary when the articles' external links always link to the Fashion Model Directory, which provides the lists themselves and where they are usually just copy-and-pasted from. Mentioning in prose the notable designers the model has walked for appears to me to be all an article really requires, especially since this is the norm in the majority of related articles like Kate Moss and Gisele Bundchen. Am I on the right track here? Any thoughts? Mbinebri (talk) 17:14, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * That sounds right to me. BTW I cleaned up the Alek Wek article a little, but left the list for you to deal with! – ukexpat (talk) 20:47, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest scanning the article histories to see who went to the trouble to add those lists, and pose your question to them on their user talk pages. Their opinions need not limit your quest to follow the guidelines, but it's just good business to run ideas by people before you clobber their work. Yes, I know on Wikipedia we tend to take the quasi-autistic approach of forgetting there are humans with emotions behind all the material we delete, and anyone who didn't bother to read the friendly manuals pretty much has it coming, but still if we are serious about civility then we should try to engage people through discussion before getting medieval on their presumably good-faith efforts. --Teratornis (talk) 21:03, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey, let's AGF on the part of all the medieval people, too! We didn't ask to be born in what you guys choose to misname the Dark Ages. Deor (talk) 03:35, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe it was some medieval guy who said: "Anyone who maligns medieval people as violent shall be drawn and quartered." --Teratornis (talk) 21:15, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Dare I say it..."Help, help, I am being repressed..." – ukexpat (talk) 21:25, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Now you see the violence inherent in the system. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  03:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Reference Tags in Section Headers
Is there a way to add a reference tag to a section header without ruining the format of the section header, and without having the reference # take on the format of the section header? Thanks. . .--Fizbin (talk) 17:30, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think so, and section headings should not contain references. See also Manual of Style. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:01, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * > section headings should not contain references
 * Normally I would agree. In this case the article is about an athlete that holds about 10 US records. The section name is 'US Records' and includes a table of these records. The reference for all of these records is the same source document. Because of this it would make some since to have the reference tag on the section header instead of one for each of the records, or some explanatory text with the reference tag before or after the table.--Fizbin (talk) 19:32, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I've been tempted myself. Try giving the table a footer section. A row spanning all columns with a short text that names the source and the reference link itself. - Mgm|(talk) 20:09, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Or add a short intro sentence after the heading but before the table and stick the ref at the end of that - much less hassle. – ukexpat (talk) 20:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks all. In this case I added it into the column headings. In the long run that is probably a better solution in this case, as the record-keeping organizations will change over time. The ref numbers still take on the bold font of the column headers, but it is not as obnoxious as taking on the font of the section headers. The entry is here if anyone cares: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Hasay --Fizbin (talk) 22:24, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Text colors
Is there any way to invert the colors of mathematical text? I.e., is it possible to change $$\aleph$$ from being black on white to being white on black? 72.197.202.36 (talk) 19:48, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You can change the color of elements as described here:  produces $$\color{Blue}foo$$, but I don't believe the background color is changeable. Icewedge (talk) 20:00, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you want to change the color for everyone to see, or just for yourself? There are lots more options for the latter, see m:Help:User style. --Teratornis (talk) 20:47, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

For everyone else, so that this userbox doesn't have varying text styles. 72.197.202.36 (talk) 21:10, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If you can live with an HTML character entity reference, what you want might just be possible, for example here's a lovely red on blue (you might have to monkey with the font size and weight):
 * &alefsym;
 * See Colours. I'm not sure how much of that you can cram into the userbox template. You might have to write your own template. In the worst case, you could create your userbox text as an image, and upload it. Incidentally, we don't get many questions about userboxes on the Help desk from non-logged-in editors. Presumably you'll be creating an account or logging in to an existing account somewhere along the way to using that userbox. --Teratornis (talk) 22:32, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Is it just me or is red on blue almost impossible to read? – ukexpat (talk) 21:27, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Impossible in what way? Is this better? No? (Try highlighting those text blocks to see how the browser's reverse video improves their legibility.) I was hoping to find a concise explanation for the difficulty, but Contrast (vision) and WikiProject Usability/Color don't clearly explain this. The reason might be in Color difference. --Teratornis (talk) 00:43, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Template changes not reflected in templates in articles
I made some changes to Template:Rover yesterday but, although these changes are still intact in Template:Rover itself, they do not appear in Template:Rover as shown at the bottom of the article Princess (car). What am I doing wrong please? GTHO (talk) 22:46, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The changes are showing when I view the article. You may need to purge/bypass your local cache. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 22:50, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Template changes can take more than a day to propagate to pages using the template. Purge can cause an update right away but there is rarely an urgent reason for that. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:04, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

merging infoboxes
Politician infoboxes now have the ability to include military service information (see Jack Kemp, Jon Corzine or Arthur Schultz). Is there a way to do the same for athlete infoboxes such as Bob Chappuis, which uses Infobox NFL player, or for Infobox Person usages such as Jon Burge. If not, how can I request such a feature?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 23:07, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Infoboxes should be for significant things generally considered relevant for the field. Many media and people care about the military record of politicians in some countries and it can affect their political career. That is not the case for athletes or almost all other non-military fields and I don't think military service generally belongs in infoboxes of people notable for unrelated things. It might be mentioned instead in a section about their personal history. That being said, you could suggest it at a relevant wikiproject or possibly the talk page of an infobox. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:35, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Military service affects anyones career. Many people say Ted Williams would hold the all-time home run record if it were not for his military service.  Many athletes have forgone a large part of their athletic careers for military service.  It is not clear to me that military service is more important/relevant to politicians than any other career outside of the military.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 00:41, 31 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Of course people can spend time in the military and the time "lost" can mean they have less time for other things, but afterwards it's rarely important for their notable achievements whether they were in the military or doing something else. Many voters care and many politicians use their own and their opponents military record in campaigns. But do you think many people decide whether to watch an athlete based on their military record? Do you think they become better (or worse) athletes than if they had been doing other non-athlete things in that time? PrimeHunter (talk) 01:03, 31 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I guess my point is that for many people their military service is a significant enough part of their life story that it should be mentioned in their infoboxes. However, for many of these people adding a separate military infobox is overkill.  I will leave it at that.  I think a chang in Infobox Person could be an especially useful improvement.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:08, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If you learn how to edit template code, you can implement your own changes. Adding new (optional) fields to a template is less likely to be controversial than removing existing fields, because anyone who doesn't need the new fields can ignore them. They don't affect the potentially many existing instances of the template in articles. Read everything under WP:EIW to learn how to do it yourself. The more you learn about how to do things on Wikipedia, the more fun you can have. The basic principle is that other people tend to think of reasons why they should not spend their time working for you, but there are fewer reasons why they might object to you doing something for yourself. Thus the arguments about whether a template should contain some additional optional field become completely different when the person who wants to add such fields just goes ahead and adds them himself. If you are trying to talk someone else into adding them, you must have much stronger arguments. --Teratornis (talk) 21:25, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I should learn how to code templates, but I am not ready to do so now.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 19:38, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

obituary
i added lark previn, 35, mia farrow and andre previn's adopted daughter, to the obituary list of december 25, 2008. it was deleted. i was wondering why. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Albatross48 (talk • contribs) 23:35, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * According to the edit summary of the revert: "Rv, unsourced & not apparently notable in herself." Please read WP:RS and WP:N. Hope this helps, Hermione1980 23:45, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The list of obituaries is only for people who have an article here. Unless Lark Previn did something noteworthy herself, she wouldn't get an article for just being related to famous people. - Mgm|(talk) 10:21, 31 December 2008 (UTC)