Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 June 21

= June 21 =

Signature
How do you make your signature all colorful? Because I want mine to be like red and be linked to my page than like blue and linked to my Talk Page. If anyone can help me out with that, please tell me.

--Piazzajordan2 00:26, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It needs to be customized with HTML style, but since you want to be all red/blue, just copy this:

which produces:

&mdash; Piazzajordan2 ( Talk )

BoL (Talk) 00:39, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you!

--— Piazzajordan2 ( Talk ) 00:47, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Watchlist
– ukexpat (talk) 03:31, 21 June 2008 (UTC) Hello. Seemingly whenever I edit a page, that page gets added to my watchlist. I figured this must be an optional setting somewhere, so I looked around and found something that appears to be that under My Preferences-Watchlist. I set all of the boxes there to be not-selected and saved it, but any pages I edit still get added to my watchlist, so I'm not sure that that's the right place after all. Is there another place I need to change the settings at? Thanks in advance. Rnb (talk) 00:32, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well after saving your preferences you'll need to bypass your cache, in firefox: ctrl + clicking refresh button, internet explorer: ctrl + F5. Hope it helps. Sunderland06  (talk) 00:46, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I see from your monobook.js that you are using Twinkle. I think the default setting in Twinkle is to mark every page that you edit using Twinkle as watched. The default setting can be changed -- see the Twinkle pages for details. – ukexpat (talk) 00:51, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, it was Twinkle! Thanks so much for your help. Rnb (talk) 00:56, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem. – ukexpat (talk) 03:31, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Odd topics appearing in my Watchlist
Every few months or so, I find some weird topics in my watchlist that I did not place there. I have changed my password, and yet they have still appeared. Are these being added because of my interest in a certain topic, or is this some sort of random vandalism? And how do I stop it from happening? FMPhoenixHawk (talk) 01:31, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If a page is moved, whether it's because of vandalism or otherwise, it will show up in your watchlist, even after the vandalism has been undone. In other words, if you are watching George Washington, and someone moves it to SuperDork, SuperDork will still show up in your watchlist even after the page is moved back. I don't think there is really a way to "stop" this, you just have to manually remove the unwanted pages from your watchlist from time to time. AlexiusHoratius (talk) 01:41, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. The odd thing is, it's always the same (Some variation of HAGGER? which makes no sense)  I guess I'll just have to keep chopping the thing out. FMPhoenixHawk (talk) 07:32, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

My Userboxes
Last thing can somebody make it so they are not scrollable. I want them just straight, no curve. Thank you. :)

--— Piazzajordan2 ( straight chillin ) 02:01, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Your userbox section had this odd bit of code:   which 1) wasn't closed, 2)added the scrollbars you didn't want, 3) isn't doing anything constructive.   If you get rid of this line, I believe it will work as you expect.   -- ShinmaWa(talk) 02:13, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, it worked.

--— Piazzajordan2 ( straight chillin ) 02:15, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Surnames
Where can I find some guidelines on how these kinds of pages should be set up? I've been treating them like dab pages, but now I'm not so sure that that's the right way to go. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:02, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that disambig pages is the way to go here, from other examples that I've found such as Smith and Jones. For unusual surnames, a List of... article might be an idea, but I think that in the main disambig pages work as a startpoint for a valid search term. Hope this helps, Gazimoff Write Read 05:10, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Personally I would prefer to see actual articles on surnames rather than just dabs, especially for those that are very common. Surely their derivation, popularity etc would make enough content for at least a brief article.


 * Actually, I see that this is the case for some such as Smith (surname). It looks like WikiProject Anthroponymy is the best place to go for guidance or discussion. Richard001 (talk) 11:48, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Copyright question - sketches of copyrighted images
I'd like to get a quick answer to a copyright question: is it okay for people to make their own renditions of copyrighted images and upload them under a free license of their choice (or public domain)? I ask because, though it seems absurd to me that such work could be a copyright infringement, I'm aware that the status of fan art is controversial and that we don't allow it for copyrighted work, even though the renditions of e.g. characters are original themselves. Having people make free images in this way from copyrighted ones would allow us to use free use where it would otherwise be impossible in some cases, though I suspect that it will be difficult to find people to make such images (we don't have people making even requests for simple graphs and such, let alone making e.g. a hand sketch of someone. Richard001 (talk) 11:46, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You appear to be describing derivative works -- one cannot acquire the rights to a work by simply reproducing or modifying it. Just as a screenshot of Terminator 2 could not exist without the movie to base it on, no sketch of Pikachu could exist without the original character. While it is true that many pieces of fan art are protected by fair use, it's important to note that fair use is not free use. – Luna Santin  (talk) 12:15, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Quick answer is NO. To avoid creating a derivative work, you must create some transformative change.  In wikipedia, this would be allowed as per No original research.  So the long answer to the long question is also no.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 12:21, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If it's a character like Pikachu, then no, but what about a photograph of a person? What if the drawing isn't exactly like the photograph, but just used to get an idea of what they look like? A person certainly isn't copyrighted, hence it being okay to upload a photograph of them that you have taken. What if it is based on multiple images? You can see that there is a continuum here between a derivative work involving some artistic skill but little creativity and one involving much more creativity. Richard001 (talk) 23:51, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Infobox capitalisation
In infoboxen, should the the first letter of the line you type in a given field be capitalized? e.g. should a caption in Infobox Book begin "cover of the first edition" or "Cover of the first edition"; genre: Fiction, nonfiction, foo or genre: fiction, nonfiction, foo? Skomorokh 13:19, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Image captions should start with a capitalized word; see Captions. In general capitalize the first word in a field.  There may be other guidelines in the infobox documentation.  --——  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  13:49, 21 June 2008 (UTC)   --——  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  13:49, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Danke. Skomorokh  19:39, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Claim the anonymous contributions
Is that possible to claim back the anonymous (IP address referred) contributions that a user made before using a registered username? --Phlyming (talk) 13:55, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Not in any very formal or technical way. You can certainly put a note on your userpage or something like that. Algebraist 13:57, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * How will the anonymous contributions be counted then? --Phlyming (talk) 15:41, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * There's no way to "count" them with any sort of tool.  Corvus cornix  talk  23:51, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This actually used to be done, but not nowadays. You can read up on the history at Changing attribution for an edit, if you like.  -- tiny plastic Grey Knight   &#x2296;  16:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Removing unencyclopedic image.
On http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_System_divestiture there is a "humerous" cartoon that doesn't add anything to the article and i want to remove it or at least change the caption. I know "Be Bold" but i still like to get a second opinion on decisions. What Tag should i add to the page to get someone else to look at it? Maybe someone can make a case for keeping that comic. HawkShark (talk) 13:59, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Discuss this on the article talk page so that involved editors are included. --——  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  15:30, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I hope the cartoon can be kept, but the PD-self tag is doubtful. —teb728 t c 00:04, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Personal attacks
Hi, could you point me in the right direction, please, to read up on what constitutes a 'personal attack' and perhaps report someone. Thankyou.-- seahamlass  14:31, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Personal attacks are defined at WP:NPA. If someone is chronically attacking you, the administrator's incident noticeboard is probably the place to go. Paragon12321 (talk) 14:40, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * After a quick look at your contribution list, I'm going to assume this is about User talk:81.156.126.17‎. Both of you are getting close to crossing the line. I would suggest dispute resolution. As this is a content dispute, how about the Mediation Cabal? Paragon12321 (talk) 14:48, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, Mediation Cabal might be helpful. Thankyou. Not yet though, I'm hoping that it might just fizzle out as is a anon IP.-- seahamlass  14:58, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

WP fair usage licensing authentication for properly licensed flickr images placed on commons.
On June 13th at Help_desk/Archives/2008_June_13 I askeda about a wikipedia analogue to the commons flickrreview template. Apparently, my original posting was confusing because I did not explain that the template is used on commons to signify that an image is in need of licensing authentication. I posted the notice when I was requested to move Image:Paintings below zero'.jpg, Image:Paintings below zero from front'.jpg, and Image:Boeing North Gallery'.jpg from Commons to WP because they are fair use art. The purpose is of my request is to get some authentication tha the images where properly licensed at the time of WP upload so that if in the future their tag gets changed at Flickr, we are not forced to delete them. There is currently debate at Cloud Gate about the propriety of images being used from commons. Yesterday, someone removed many images and I replaced them saying I was willing to move them to WP and add fair usage rationales if necessary. However, any image that is moved over is at risk of being lost unless WP has some sort of licensing authentication system. Please advise.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 16:00, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Can't find an article
What's it called when somebody makes a facial on themselves? I've heard it been described as a self facial, self bukkake, and even diy bukkake but i cant find an article for any of these. Perhaps it's under another name? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.227.18 (talk) 17:13, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Symbol move vote.svg|20px]] This page is for questions about using Wikipedia. Please consider asking this question at the Reference desk. They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. You could always try  for an article related to the topic you want to know more about.  I hope this helps.  I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'makes a facial on themselves', though.  Please sign your post by typing four tildes ( ~ ) or clicking the signature button above the edit box which looks like this: [[Image:Signature_icon.png]].  Do NOT sign in articles. ...... Dendodge  .. Talk Help 17:17, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Based on the reference to bukkake, I think this user was just trolling. – ukexpat (talk) 19:22, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

New user
Hi there! I'm a new users. I've made some edits. Can anyone explain me about Wikipedia? Cheers! The gen-X (talk) 17:34, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Hello there and welcome! I've replied on your talk page with links to a stack of information to get you started, including how Wikipedia works and some tutorials to help get you started. If you have any further questions, feel free to ask. Hope this helps!Gazimoff Write Read 17:40, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Submission offering
I have spent over an hour attempting to create an account so I can offer a nice 1924 photograph for your page  but gave up after typing in over a dozen of the deformed characters that pop up. In trying to read how to submit and the rules, FAQ's, Help, etc. I cannot spend any more time. If you would like this picture, tell me where I can send the picture for you to use or not.

Thanks, 71.123.31.13 (talk) 17:44, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey, if you need help with making an account, that's what Request an account is for! But even afterward, you must stay for 4 days and make 10 edits in order to be able to upload pictures (this is to prevent vandalism, which happens here way more often that most think). I would suggest doing that and uploading the image yourself, but beware of all the various image and copyright policies... if you don't want to, create an account (or have it created for you), and email the image to another, more experienced user to upload it for you. Calvin 1998 (t-c) 17:49, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Nbsp inside template parameter
I've been trying to modify a select group of templates (namely redirect templates) so that, by default, they have a bunch of text that includes a non-breaking space and horizontal rule, like this:

but when a certain argument is given, I want the presented template to simply give the text after a bullet, So far, I've found that, even if the argument is given, only the "argument-free" version appears. Here's a simple example: I want it so that if I enter, the result is the part of R from London bus that says "London bus: The target article is about one or more London bus routes." Instead, I always get the part that says "This is a redirect to an article about one or more bus routes in London. It is therefore sorted into Category:Redirects from London bus routes."
 * like this.

I figure the problem has something to do with either the nbsp or some other line break in the template's somewhat complicated structure. Any ideas? $$\sim$$ Lenoxus " * " 18:16, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Try . If that doesn't work I'll see what I can do. -- G2.0 USA contributions 20:56, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I changed the template, using ifeq.--Patrick (talk) 00:28, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Wood carving patterns
I want to design wood carving patterns for chip carving18:49, 21 June 2008 (UTC)~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.105.190.50 (talk)


 * We have articles on wood carving and chip carving. --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  19:03, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

blood types
Comment moved to Reference desk/Science

Cannot use IRC
I can not use any IRC channels inside or outside of Wikipedia because I use Safari web browser for Mac OS X. It wil not support the irc:// protocol. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frogger3140 (talk • contribs) 20:20, 21 June 2008 (UTC)--Ωfrogger3140Ω2 omega (talk) 20:21, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry I fail to see the question. Are you asking why it won't work? Or how to fix it? Thanks, PeterSymonds (talk)  20:22, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * How to fix it? --Ωfrogger3140Ω2 omega (talk) 20:25, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know if it works on Safari, but try Chatzilla ...... Dendodge  .. Talk Help 20:27, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Or Mibbit. -- G2.0 USA contributions 20:58, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't know any internet browsers supported IRC? For Mac OS X, the two best chat clients are X-Chat Aqua, and Colloquy (IRC client). I prefer XChat, since it always works for me. In XChat, if you want to join wikipedia's IRC channels, type /server irc.freenode.net/wikipedia and then /join #wikipedia, or whichever channel you want to join. Also, this might have been a good question to ask at the Computing Reference Desk. Mac Davis (talk) 01:39, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Forcing the first section to not begin until TOC ends
This is a pretty straight forward template, but I can't find it after a while of searching. Sorry for such an obvious question. Leth esl  22:07, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It should do that by default ...... Dendodge  .. Talk Help 22:09, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you mean clear? Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 22:10, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem is with this article: List of cathedrals in the United Kingdom - the contents box is interrupting the table in a really ugly way, but it only has a right allignment set - or is that what is causing the problem? Leth  esl  22:48, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Did a preview edit, clear worked! Thank you! Leth  esl  22:50, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

showing "bytes changed" in Special:Contributions
Is there a user script, user style, or user preferences that will show the number of bytes changed (as seen in My Watchlist) in My Contributions? Can I also see this information in the Page History (if I'm too lazy to do the subtraction between diffs myself)? - SigmaEpsilon → Σ Ε 23:05, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If each character is the same number of bits, why do you ask? There can be no difference unless you want the script to calculate how many bytes image thumbnails and audio add. If a character is 8 bytes, then just multiply the number of characters by 8. Mac Davis (talk) 01:35, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Huh? Page History shows the total size of each revision. My Contributions shows no size info at all. I'm interested in the change in size (bytes or chars, it doesn't matter) between revisions. I'm not sure what you mean by "bits". File size is never measured in individual bits (and chars are almost always one byte, or sometimes two bytes). The size of images and audio files is irrelevant to me. I only care about change in size from one revision to the next. History and Contribs do not indicate this. - SigmaEpsilon → Σ Ε 03:18, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Account Age
How can I find out how old my account is? Thanks, Ζρς ι'β' ¡hábleme! 23:38, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * User creation log here, which indicates your account is about six months old. Best, PeterSymonds (talk)  23:40, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Your first edit was on January 28, 2008. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 23:41, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Good, thank you both. That's what I needed. :) Ζρς ι'β' ¡hábleme! 23:43, 21 June 2008 (UTC)