Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 March 13

= March 13 =

Double redirect
In the instructions for moving a page, it says to avoid "double redirects". I couldn't tell exactly what a double redirect is.
 * Article links to a redirect page and that page links to another article - OK, right?
 * A redirect page links to another redirect page - not OK, right? Bubba73 (talk), 03:58, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's correct. See Double redirects. --Silver Edge (talk) 04:03, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Images not working properly
Hello, When I visit the wikipedia homepage as well as when I visit the individual pages, none of the images appear on my screen. There are simply blank spaces where I know there to be images. If I click on these spaces it takes me to the image citing page where it is still not visible unless I click it again to view the image by itself. This is extremely annoying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tucansam909 (talk • contribs) 04:04, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Check your browser privacy options, and attempt to purge your cache.  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 04:23, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Also check to see if you have advertisement-blocking options turned on in your browser, or as an external application. Because of the way the images are stored, they sometimes end up with /ad/ in their address, which gets interpreted as an advertisement. Confusing Manifestation (Say hi!) 22:19, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Title change
How do I go about changing the title of an Article that is spelt incorrectly?Jagra (talk) 04:15, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * By conducting a page move: WP:MOVE.  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 04:22, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

User List
Is is possible to display the list of user names from Special Pages to show the names in chronological order of registration? Retarius | Talk 04:53, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * That's the default way it is listed.  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 04:55, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * .  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 04:56, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, the creation log doesn't go back all that far (somewhere in 2006). I don't think there's any way of determining when an old user signed up at all, let alone listing them in that order. Algebraist 15:02, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * There is a toolserver tool that tries to guess the date by comparing first edits of the 2-3 users before and after the user in question. It is however resource intensive. However, apart from the first few thousands users (no idea about the exact number) that had their ID changed due to DB problems, a query can retrieve the list you're searching for. I won't run such query however, as it would return a huge list (we've got 6,658,999 users :) ) and I don't see its purpose. If you would be interested in a more limited query, you can file a request at Query service.  Snowolf How can I help? 22:48, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you all. I'd noticed that each user seems to be allocated a number when they register and I wondered whether you could show them all in order of registration, just to see who the veterans are and whether they're still with us. Thanks for the tip, Snowolf, I'll refrain from "pulling over" the server! Retarius | Talk 03:16, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Welcome message
When I encounter a new user whose very first edits are silliness or vandalism, I want to leave a Welcome message, but I don't want it to say "Thank you for your contributions." I think that is a silly thing to say in a case where I have just reverted their contributions.

I'm looking for a template that is similar to or  but without that one sentence.

I tried to edit a template to get rid of that sentence, but run into coded parameters in the template that I can't cope with.

Is there someone who knows how to code templates who might help on this or is there another way around this? Thanks, Wanderer57 (talk) 04:55, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * welcome is in: Category:Welcome templates. Check them out. Maybe Welcomevandal works. --Teratornis (talk) 05:02, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. The template leaves out that sentence.  Wanderer57 (talk) 07:19, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Michael Rogin
You need to have a site about Michael Rogin. There is nothing anywhere on Wikipedia about him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.255.179.224 (talk) 05:32, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * You may create it yourself then: WP:YFA and WP:ARTICLE.  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 05:33, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Thats fucking retarded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.255.179.224 (talk • contribs)


 * Thanks for telling me. Now kindly read WP:CIVIL.  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 05:37, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Some editors are badly shaken by uncivil words directed towards them, and cannot focus on the source of the conflict itself. It may help to point out to them why unpleasant words were used, and acknowledge that while incivility is wrong, the ideas behind the comment may be valid.

The offended person may realize that the words were not always meant literally, and could decide to forgive and forget them.

.....I still think at the kind request your customers, you should do something about information that is not present on your website. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.255.179.224 (talk) 05:46, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * There are no customers on Wikipedia. Wikipedia articles are written by people who think that the article should be written. There is nobody here who has more responsibility to write an article that you do. —teb728 t c 07:10, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Hide boxes in articles
Is it acceptable to use "hide" boxes or other types of drawer-type formats within articles in mainspace? Retarius | Talk 06:31, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If you have a reason to, I don't see why not. George D. Watson  (Dendodge). Talk Help 17:27, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

ILGA World Conference 2008 Quebec City
Please be advised that the 24th World Conference of ILGA, planned for Quebec City in May 2008 has been cancelled. We suggest that you remove reference to this event from your Website as well as the FLIKR Website. Otherwise you could make it clear that the Quebec ILGA Conference is cancelled. Please refer to the ILGA website for the official announcement. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Trevor Cook Executive Director, ILGA www.ilga.org —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.240.21.242 (talk) 08:47, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I've updated the article, however, we have no control over the content on other websites.Steve Crossin (talk) 09:04, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Broken reference
Can anyone figure out why the second reference in here isn't displaying correctly? Grand master  ka  11:15, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed, there was an extra carriage return in the ref's title which was confusing the template. Nanonic (talk) 11:50, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Grand  master  ka  14:04, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

QUESTION ABOUT PAGE NOW MARKED AS ADVERTSDIMENT
Dear Reader,

I see that the entry "Universal Health Care Foundation of Connecticut" has now been marked as "written like an advertiswment." I'm not clear about why this happened. For example, the article appears to be well-sourced from third-parties to confirm the facts as stated. Is it possible to get some idea of which section or sections should be changed, and how?

Thanks!

Danielroberts (talk) 14:38, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * An editor feels that the tone of the article reads like an advertisement and doesn't conform to Neutral point of view even though it may be well referenced. That page may help better explain.— Ѕandahl 14:49, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Also see WP:PEACOCK which explains what "promotional language" is, and why we don't use it on Wikipedia. Incidentally, I can't find an article with the title you gave: Universal Health Care Foundation of Connecticut. I tried: and that did not find the article either, but it did find a Google cached copy of an article that looks like someone spent a lot time editing it. Perhaps the next question will be: Why was my article deleted? --Teratornis (talk) 21:15, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

cherrytree
Superscript texti want to do with you what cherrytree do in winter time
 * Do you have a question about Wikipedia? -- grawity talk / PGP 17:23, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Images
Is it a copyright infringement if I upload a picture of, say, a famous pop start which I drew myself? Or of characters from a TV which I drew? In pencil, I might add. xxx User:Hyper Girl 16:43, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It depends. I think you can draw real people (maybe) but not copyrighted cartoon characters.  I'd be careful if I were you though.  George D. Watson  (Dendodge). Talk Help 17:26, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

DynamicCategoryMap not showing
I am trying to get the DynamicCategoryMap to work on my wiki and I have followed all the steps shown to me in http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Dynamic_Category_Map However after I put the tags in my main page  title=Please Help 

only the title would show on the page. I do have a list of categories. What could I have done wrong? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.0.7 (talk) 16:50, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not the place to ask for help with that topic, try the Mediawiki help desk. George D. Watson  (Dendodge). Talk Help 17:24, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Try here:  George D. Watson  (Dendodge). Talk Help 17:35, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Page not edited
Hi I recently edited the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirens_(band) as it is very out of date. However when the page hasnt been changed and my edited page is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirens_%28band%29 I need this sorting asap as when I google it, the old page is displayed. Please advise how I correct this problem Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Euro Ann n Nicki (talk • contribs) 17:12, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Your edits were probably reverted per WP:NPOV, they certainly meet the criteria. George D. Watson  (Dendodge). Talk Help 17:23, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If you mean that Google itself shows older text from the article, that is because Google doesn't instantly update when you make a Wikipedia edit. Google only updates its searches every few days. The new text will be in the Wikipedia article when you click the link in Google. Franamax (talk) 17:49, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Its a problem with your browser caching pages. Also however, your edit was not suitable at all.-- Kerotan Leave Me a Message  Have  a nice day :) 18:26, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Black Rock Mountain (World of Warcraft)
Why was this page deleted? I can't find any reasons nor any discussion page where a debate occured leading to deletion. Dlother (talk) 18:51, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The page at Blackrock Mountain (World of Warcraft) was deleted under WP:CSD, which states that any page that "Redirects to deleted pages and to nonexistent pages" may be deleted on sight without discussion. If the page originally redirected to an article, you may want to contact an administrator who can help direct you to the deletion log for that article. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 19:16, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the swift reply. Forgive me for my ignorance of wikipedia policies. My question now is; If I were to create original content for that page and recreate it, would this be against any policy if done properly? To put it more direct; is there any reason why wikipedia would not allow a page on the World of Warcraft area known as Blackrock Mountain? Thanks again. Dlother (talk) 19:37, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If you create an article that shows why it is notable based on verifiable and reliable sources, then it could be allowed. You could try creating a page in your sandbox and ask some editors to take a look and give you an opinion. Franamax (talk) 20:13, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

(undent) If you are interested in World of Warcraft, I suggest checking out WoWWiki, in the unlikely event that you hadn't already. WoWWiki caters to WoW fans, unlike Wikipedia which has many policies that hamper the enthusiasts of many special interest topics, so you will probably find writing about WoW much more satisfying on WoWWiki. This is not to discourage you from trying to figure out how to edit on Wikipedia, but to point out that when you get tired of beating your head against the wall here, there is another wiki you might like better. --Teratornis (talk) 21:22, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Blackrock Mountain (World of Warcraft) was an unsourced stub before being redirected to Locations in the Warcraft Universe, a section which at the time contained:
 * "A volcanic mountain, the tallest in the Burning Steppes. At its base was once Blackrock Spire, the Orcish capital in the First and Second Wars. After a titanic battle here during which Anduin Lothar, the greatest leader of the Alliance, was slain, the Horde was routed and pushed all the way back to the Dark Portal, which fell soon afterward. Today there is a civil war in the volcano between the black dragon Nefarian, with his army of dragonkin, Blackrock Orcs, and some rebel trolls and ogres who rule the upper half versus Ragnaros the Firelord, and his legion of fire elementals, Dark Iron Dwarfs, and War Golems, who control the lower half."
 * After some moves that page ended at List of Warcraft locations which was deleted at Articles for deletion/List of Warcraft locations. In view of this it seems inappropriate to make a new article about Blackrock Mountain. See also WP:GAMEGUIDE and WP:FICTION. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:36, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

search help
Greetings, I'm searching for an answer to a question that came up in a family discussion.

How many residents does it take to become a village, a town, a city? what are the minimum requirements to meet each level? Or, where can I find the data?

thx 72.178.49.169 (talk) 19:04, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * This page is for help with using Wikipedia. You might want to try the Reference Desk instead. &mdash; P urple   RAIN  19:21, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * See: village, town, and city. The articles say these classifications are approximate. I.e., there are not any specific numbers that determine exactly when a permanent settlement changes from a "village" to a "town" and then to a "city." It would be strange if there were such exact numbers, because a permanent settlement with a population right on the dividing point could oscillate back and forth as small numbers of people entered or left. Imagine having to update all the maps each time one guy leaves Oklahoma City and it temporarily becomes "Oklahoma Town." --Teratornis (talk) 21:04, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * In England, a town has a charter (a village doesn't) and a city has a cathedral (a church with a cathedra). Ask at the reference desk next time.  George D. Watson  (Dendodge). Talk Help 21:33, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

side bar edit buttons
Many web sites use left, right, top and bottom sidebars to place stable edit buttons whereas with the Wikipedia the left side bar is not stationary and does not add the edit buttons when in edit mode. Move down a page and the buttons in the left sidebar move up so that the only way to access them is to first return to the top of the page. Same problem with the edit page buttons - they follow the page instead of remaining stationary in a left or right or top or bottom sidebar. Very annoying. I know this is suppose to have something to do with frames and that programming to accommodate frames is more difficult, but come on, its not like the Wikipedia is still in an infant stage where there is not time to make such improvements. Thanks. 71.100.165.232 (talk) 19:23, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * This might be a more appropriate place to discuss this issue: WP:VILLAGE.  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 19:27, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

If you Create an account I can help you with custom CSS to get this effect. —Random832 19:43, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure though what you mean by "stable edit buttons" or "edit buttons when in edit mode" - can you provide an example of a website with the behavior you are talking about? —Random832 19:48, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I started building Internet pages in about 1995 using Microsoft Publisher. Under publisher the creation of various boxes was automatically converted to frames when printed pages were converted to web pages. However, Firefox can not display these pages although Internet Explorer can. I still use publisher even though Firefox users can not view the pages in hopes that one day Firefox will update so the pages can be properly decoded and displayed. I'll try to find other pages which Firefox can read that include this techniques of providing sidebars that do not move when the rest of the page or that is the content of other frames move. Here is one. 71.100.174.10 (talk) 22:35, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I already know how to make the sidebar not move in a way that will work on wikipedia, what I don't understand is what you mean by "edit buttons" - what buttons do you think should be in the sidebar that are not already? —Random832 14:15, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Youth on Wikipedia
There used to be a group for youth who enjoy and collaborate on editing wikipedia. I remember hearing it was disbanded. Is there perhaps a new one, and if not can I start one? Arkkeeper (talk) 19:47, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I tried searching a little and I did not find whatever group you might refer to. Are you asking about starting a WikiProject on Wikipedia itself? WP:PROJ says:
 * "A WikiProject is a collection of pages devoted to the management of a specific topic or family of topics within Wikipedia; and, simultaneously, a group of editors that use said pages to collaborate on encyclopedic work."
 * I don't see how that would apply to a group of editors who had only their age range in common (but of course the world is not limited by my ability to comprehend it). However, there are many topics on Wikipedia likely to be interesting to young people, and several WikiProjects focus on such topics. Not all of their members are necessarily young, but a lot of them probably are. You can also start any sort of social group you like, outside of Wikipedia. If you are interested in teaching wiki editing to students, you might find something useful in: User:Teratornis/Tips for teachers. --Teratornis (talk) 20:55, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I tried another search: . Some of the search results look like they might relate to your question. --Teratornis (talk) 20:57, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If I recall correctly more than a group there was a wiki. Try to ask User:Martinp23, I recall he was involved.  Snowolf How can I help? 22:39, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

WAAA
No, I'm not crying. I'm not sure I did the blockquotes right on the WTIX-AM page.

I'm not sure what I did with the quotes was proper for Wikipedia, but I felt like these quotes needed to be there. also, the numbers for the references don't look right.

And there's a conflict between two sources. I looked and looked and finally found where WGIV was described as the first black radio station in North Carolina (in 1947), but other sources say WDIA was first in the country (in 1948), which would mean WGIV was not. But I'm tired of searching for evidence. I know that right now the article doesn't look right for this reason. Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 20:32, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The quotes are OK, they could do with a bit of formatting (and maybe a section header) but they don't need either. The refs should go after the text, not before as they do now.  As for the sources, someone will have to sort that out (I'm not familiar with the subject so I'll leave them for now.  I'll sort the quotes and refs as soon as I've posted this.  George D. Watson  (Dendodge). Talk Help 21:20, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I tried to format it a bit. I hope that helped. Cheers  Gtstricky Talk or C 21:21, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

The refs do go after the text, but how they ended up on a separate line I don't know. Thanks both of you for your help. It looks good. Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 17:05, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Oops. Two of the references got messed up by the fixes. They're fine now. Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 17:08, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Subpages
If I want a subpage for some information, say "XYZ", does it make any difference whether the subpage is:

User:Me/XYZ

OR

User talk:Me/XYZ

?? Thanks, Wanderer57 (talk) 21:02, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The User talk: version takes you to XYZ's talk page (all pages have one), while the User: version just takes you to the page, from the talk you can go to the article and vice versa. George D. Watson  (Dendodge). Talk Help 21:15, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

MediaWiki Scripts
I've noticed the user scripts friendly & Twinkle has been added as a Gadget in the preferences could Lupin's Anti-Vandal tool be added also, I find it very useful while patrolling for vandalism and if it's added as a Gadget it would clean up my monobook.js file slightly. Terra What do you want? 21:26, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't you have to be approved for Lupin's? If so, it can't go in the preferences.  <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:#008000">George D. Watson  (Dendodge). Talk Help 21:28, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Most scripts which I'm talking about are being added here by someone. <b style="color:green;">Terra</b> <sup style="color:green;">What do you want? 21:30, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it could. I would ask User:Lupin. I would think he would have to be part of the decision.  Gtstricky Talk or C 21:34, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * ✅ Left a note on Lupin's talkpage, and have asked if he could comment on this discussion. <b style="color:green;">Terra</b> <sup style="color:green;">What do you want? 21:38, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It looks like the guidelines are located at WP:GADGET. I do not see any discussion of his tools on WP:GP yet.  Gtstricky Talk or C 22:15, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * No, you don't have to be approved by Lupin. By the way, there's not much point in dropping a note at Lupin's talk page as he has made a sigle edit since November. Whatever the decision should be, consider yourselves free to discuss it without needing Lupin's approval (of course if he's still reading us, better :) ).  Snowolf How can I help? 22:34, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes... I left several cries for help.. maybe two, on his page. Yes, this would be great to place in the Gadget area, however, I still think the script itself needs a few more revisions, because something in the code does not allow users on Safari to use the filtered recent changes page.  If it is going to be put up there, I would think it needs to be fixed so it allows that.—  Dǣdαlus  T@lk \ [mailto:Daedalus969@gmail.com →](quick link) 07:59, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Automation Tools
My question is related to the previous one, which is why I'm putting it here. It would be handy for me to have a tool to make it easier to add messages of "welcome", vandal 1, 2, 3 etc. At present I paste in templates but getting the template code by cut and paste takes a lot of time.

Can you recommend a "tool" for this please? Wanderer57 (talk) 21:57, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * See WP:TWINKLE and WP:FRIENDLY which can now be activated using the gadgets tab under your preferences (located at the top of any page)  Gtstricky Talk or C 22:06, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You need Firefox as your browser for them to work.  Gtstricky Talk or C 22:10, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * That's not true - you can have safari.  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 22:14, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I did not think Friendly worked in safari yet. The info on the gadgets tab must be outdated. Thanks for clarifying.  Gtstricky Talk or C 22:19, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Friendly works with Safari, but I think it has glitches and bugs. Sometimes it works for me, other times it doesn't register that I've clicked a tab or checked a box - so you might be correct.  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 22:24, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you verra much!. Is it a matter of using both TWINKLE and FRIENDLY, or of picking one of them?   Fortunately, though old and stoopid, I was still 'compos mentis' enough a year or two ago to switch to Firefox.  ;o)   Wanderer57 (talk) 22:28, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * For Vandalism, TWINKLE is the way to go, for welcoming, tagging articles with various useful templates etc..use FRIENDLY. My advice: employ both of them. However, be cautious with Twinkle, it's easy to become trigger happy.  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 22:35, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * They can be used together, they's for different purposes. Twinkle is more on the "destruction" side" while Friendly is more on the "helping" one :) (read: Twinkle is for warnings, afds, speedy deletions and so on while Friendly is for welcomes, tagging, etc).  Snowolf How can I help? 22:37, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Responding/Posting a Comment to an article already on the site
I was reading an article about October Road. They were having a discussion about the cancellation of the show. I tried to respond and was instructed to create an account which I did. Now I can not find after logging in the area to create an article for responses or respond to the one about October Road. Can you help me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 6ftsoccermom (talk • contribs) 22:50, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If you want to talk about how to make the October road article better, find the place for discussion here.-- Kerotan Leave Me a Message  Have  a nice day :) 23:00, 13 March 2008 (UTC)