Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 March 8

= March 8 =

how can I fix a page that someone else moved, prematurely, from my user area to the public area, without getting blocked?
I am the original author of the Pete Worden page. He is my colleague and I was putting a page about him together in my user subpage. It is my first page construction, and I _thought_ this was the way to do it: Build it in my user subpage, and when I'm happy with it, move it into the real wikipedia. I took the Mike Griffin page as a starting point (Mike runs NASA, Pete runs NASA Ames) and started replacing the information about Mike with information about Pete. Halfway through this process, Styrofoam1994 "took" the partially completed page from my user area and put it into the public area - possibly to get credit for creating an article in some kind of a race? Unfortunately, they did not fact check the information. I was only half done with the initial creation, and the page they "took" from my user area and posted publicly was half filled with information copied from the Mike Griffin page, but which was patently nonsensical to have on the Pete Worden page. When I found my half-completed embarassingly erroneus page posted in the public area, I attempted to boldy edit it into shape. But my edits are being reverted, I am being accused of vandalism and being threatened with being blocked. How dissapointing. Can someone who is familiar with the ways of wikipedia help me out? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Creonlevit (talk • contribs) 01:11, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, this will always be seen as vandalism . Please remember that you don't own a page.  If you are going to make major edits, add inuse at the top of the page.  You will want to cite sources in the article as well.  However, it is not the best thing when someone moves an article from a different user's sandbox.  Good luck. ---CWY2190TC 01:39, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No that wasn't vandalism at all; that was removal of artifact material from another article that Creonlevit was using as an example while he worked on an article in a subpage. Then another user, for reasons that thoroughly baffle me, posted the article and mind you, not as a move, but cutting and pasting it as a "new article" and thereby creating a GFDL clusterf*** that there is no neat way to fix. Imagine after all that he got warned for for vandalism for removing the artifact material. Just as an example fo how problematic this conduct is: maybe Creonlevit wanted to take this article to DYK after taking his time developing it but would be foreclosed from doing so with the article posted in inchoate form. There is little to do but delete the posted article and allow this user to work on the subpage in peace until he's ready to go live.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 02:26, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

um...
Someone went crazy to Horton Hears a Who (film)! Can you fix it? 70.8.2.139 (talk) 01:17, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. Thanks for the report.  Malinaccier (talk) 01:23, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

DB tags showing as minor edits
It appears some articles I tagged for speedy using Twinkle are showing as minor edits. I'm not sure why or how. I'm just pretty sure they are not supposed to be marked as minor. Thanks for any help! Beach drifter (talk) 02:18, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * For some reason, Twinkle's default settings is to mark everything as minor. See the documentation for information on how to change this. Xenon54 02:22, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I wasn't even aware of that page. Good to know. Beach drifter (talk) 02:39, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Extreme Croquet
Had a problem while editing the Extreme Croquet page. My computer froze up and the links were deleated. Is there anyway to recover the lost links? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bjb329 (talk • contribs) 02:27, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

The Extreme Croquet page reverted back to normal after undoing edit. Thank You —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bjb329 (talk • contribs) 02:40, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Article Title
Hi i have created a article, but then i want to make some changes to its title. Tt is not something complex but i just cant get on how to make some changes to the case of the letters in the article title. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaydeepm (talk • contribs) 03:37, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * We rename articles by moving them to new names. Only users who have been editing for four days can do so however, so I have moved the article for you, capitalizing her surname and guessing this is the change you wanted. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:46, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * If you want to change the case of the title, just move it. However, if you want to change to case of the FIRST LETTER, use . Visit me at Ftbhrygvn (T alk |C ontribs |L og |U serboxes ) 03:50, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Closing my account
So I am going to start to edit under another name and was wondering....

If I do a vanish- can I leave a permanent goodbye message- such as "I won't be editing from this account anymore, however feel free to leave a message (it'll get picked up within a year) or email me?"

How can I move my watchlist? Sethie (talk) 04:15, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * If you retire, you can still have your userpage deleted, but leave a message on your talk page; vanishing is a bit different. To copy a watchlist, just go to your raw watchlist and copy the stuff there. Paste it in your new account's watchlist. Cheers, Master of Puppets   Call me MoP! ☺  04:17, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Sethie (talk) 04:55, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

File sharing
At Talk:Bradford fire, a number of people have been using the talk page to trade footage of the disaster. This TV footage is embargoed by its makers, Yorkshire Television, but nonetheless has made it onto various file sharing sites. The people leaving these comments don't appear to be Wikipedia editors.

Is it appropriate for me to remove them? I think so, but wanted to double check. Vashti (talk) 04:39, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think it's appropriate to remove them. It would be different if people were discussing whether footage could be added to the article, but that's apparently not the case.--86.149.56.156 (talk) 10:02, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you. In fact, it's already been done. :) Vashti (talk) 13:56, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

find a translation for Mi Corazoncito?
where can I find a translation for MI Corazoncito by Aventura?

thanx04:42, 8 March 2008 (UTC)70.8.198.27 (talk)
 * WikiBooks might have something.-- TBC  ♣§♠  !?!   19:51, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * What are the source and destination languages? If the source text is online somewhere, you might get a somewhat readable translation with Google translation. See the examples in the template documentation which show translations from some other language Wikipedias to English. --Teratornis (talk) 05:13, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Google indexing time minimum?
What is the record minimum time from page creation to Google indexing that page? أسرة لايف بكلية التربية النوعية بالمنصورة got created 05:28, 8 March 2008 and was indexed by Google by at least 05:48 !! (Note: now deleted - it was text copied from another site) Previously I'd found a garbage page that was indexed at around 40-45 minutes. Is Google indexing by actively scanning the new pages listings? Aieee! Shenme (talk) 05:54, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know, but I recently learned that Google does not index pages in our Talk: namespace (boo, hiss). If you want to see how fast Google is indexing our new pages, go to Special:Newpages, and try Googling for some recent article with the Google template. How about: LaCUNAR (musician), which we can Google for with: . Wow, Google finds it as the top result and says: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaCUNAR_(musician) - 26 minutes ago. I guess Google may really have decided to start indexing Wikipedia faster. Previously I had noticed indexing delays of about five days. I think that was only a few months ago. --Teratornis (talk) 08:51, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe Google doesn't index Talk:, but you can certainly find User talk: pages in Google searches. --Coppertwig (talk) 21:08, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, all the other "* talk:" namespaces that I have searched for so far show up in Google searches. That's why I was surprised when a user asked me how to set up a Google custom search on the Talk: namespace and I couldn't get it to work. I searched for clues and found a blog post by someone who appears authoritative on the subject that explained Google stopped indexing our Talk: pages because apparently some people have been adding links to Talk: pages that they could not add to our articles (due to WP:EL), presenting them as discussion relating to the articles, in an attempt to "game" Google's PageRank for the associated articles linked-to sites. I don't understand the details of how that works, but the upshot seems to be that Google no longer indexes our Talk: pages, but still indexes pages in the non-article talk: namespaces. I documented this in Template:Google custom, in case anyone is curious. Elsewhere in the template documentation I show example searches on other "* talk:" namespaces. --Teratornis (talk) 05:07, 9 March 2008 (UTC)


 * At Village pump (technical)/Archive 19 I also found that Talk: for articles is the only namespace Google doesn't index. PrimeHunter (talk) 05:21, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

computer hardware
why motherboard is called motherboard & not fatherboard''' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.94.189.22 (talk) 10:41, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * motherboard might help. However, this page is for questions regarding the use of wikipedia. Try the reference desk next time. Cheers!  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 12:07, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I can't find anything I need!!!
plese help me find some inventions from the reign of queen Elizabeth I of England. all I can find are pencils and muskets. I would like 4 inventions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.228.87.238 (talk • contribs) 14:25, 8 March 2008
 * You might want to search in all the articles about the years she reigned. (1558 – 1603) It'll have all the events within the year listed there, you might be able to find some inventions there. ~ Bella   Swan  14:29, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You might also want to ask this question at our reference desk where someone more familiar with the subject might have your answer. — Travis talk  14:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Try Google: . That finds a few links that might help. You might try searching on the date range as well. Also see:
 * Timeline of historic inventions
 * Timeline of historic inventions
 * where you will find a few inventions such as the Thermoscope. --Teratornis (talk) 05:28, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

adding in someone's signature stamp?
Someone added a statement on the talk page without a signature/time stamp. How do i go back and manually add that so the statement is sourced to him? Renee (talk) 17:22, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Nevermind, here's how: —Preceding unsigned comment added by user name or IP (talk • contribs) date
 * Here's the page describing it. Thanks, Renee (talk) 17:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Random album art deletion
Just what is the reason for the random deletion of images of album art. I am finding that some images that I have posted are retained and some deleted, each with equal reasons for inclusion. What gives? Backspace (talk) 17:53, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The images were tagged as not having valid fair use rationales by User:BetacommandBot, which left warnings on your talk page about this. I see that you did try to provide fair use rationales, but the problem was that the each rationale must link to the name of the article it is claimed is being used in as fair use (and provide a separate rationale for each article in which the image is used in). I am in the process of restoring them with valid fair use rationales (see Image:HollyDunnHeartFullofLove.jpg which I have restored and placed back in Heart Full of Love‎). Once I am done restoring, which will take me some time, please take the initiative and fix the rationales for the image pages that are tagged but not yet deleted. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 18:37, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * All have been restored with fair use rationales. The patty Loveless album covers were not as good images were uploaded after yours relacing them. Again please see what I did and emulate so that you your others album cover images don't suffer the same fate.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 20:18, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your efforts. I'd hate to think that all my time and efforts have been wasted. I try to provide very good quality images (for their size, that is). I will try to give more standardized format rationales for any images that I may upload in the future. Backspace (talk) 02:05, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Trying to delete a pic
(I asked at the copyright desk, but no answer, so I'll try here.) I know how to mark an article for speedy deletion, but I seem to be having difficulties doing the same for pic. The reason for deletion is that the first DVD cover in the picture is from a movie that featured what was later discovered to be a minor (the boy on the cover) and is off the market for legal reasons; plus, i think the images are copyrighted; see this for past deletion of the same picture. AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 18:14, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * And yet magically, the photo is gone. Something must have worked. The Evil Spartan (talk) 18:46, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The image may have been oversighted, as I'm not seeing any report of a second deletion in the logs. Such would seem appropriate for this sort of situation, as (unfortunately) there isn't really any sort of deletion criteria for this. Possibly G3, as vandalism, but that could be stretching it a bit, especially if the intention was to use it in an article for identification of a movie. At least it's gone. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 19:07, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

How do I edit this box?
I'm fixing up The Muppets' Wizard of Oz to take it to GA status. But, there's this Muppet wiki box in the external links section that is broken and I can't edit it to fix it. How do I edit it? Limetolime (talk) 18:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Since that's a template, you'll have to go to Template:Muppets to change it. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 18:43, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Whose web site is it?
Whose web site is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.69.1.25 (talk) 19:18, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia, you mean? It's owned by the Wikimedia Foundation.-- TBC  ♣§♠  !?!   19:50, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

How do I make a contents on a page?
I have been editing the Vampire Doll page, and have added alot of information and a picture to it, but I don't know how to make a contents table to complete it =[ Help, please! =] —Preceding unsigned comment added by XxSaphira (talk • contribs) 20:04, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Unless the magic word is present, a table of contents should automatically be created if there are four or more sections in the article. You can also use the magic word  (that's two underscores, FORCETOC, then another two underscores) to force a table of contents to be created. If it still isn't showing up, make sure you haven't disabled TOC's by default at Special:Preferences. Xenon54 20:09, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I see that you have now forced a TOC on Vampire Doll, but you may want to consider making the character names sub-headings instead of a definition list, so they appear in the TOC. Bovlb (talk) 20:34, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Help on Assessment Categories needed
I'm trying to create a FL-class assessment category (to cover all the project's featured lists) for WikiProject College football, but I'm not really sure how to do it. I've edited the statistics box, but I'm not sure where to go from there, and I'm afraid that if I do create it, the bot that records classifications won't include new FL-class articles because I just created the category. Can anyone give me some advice? JKBrooks85 (talk) 20:43, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I looked at the history of the statistics box you edited, and that leads to the bot's user page: User:WP 1.0 bot. I would be surprised if any Help desk volunteers who happen to be checking in now will be familiar with how that bot works (I surely am not), so I recommend reading the bot's user page for clues (something there might make more sense to you than it does to me, since I'm not familiar with that project), and contacting the bot author who appears to be User:Oleg Alexandrov. --Teratornis (talk) 04:59, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Is it OK to include a contextually appropriate commercial link?
I just did my first edit to a Wiki topic -- I added information to the Peter Lorre entry about an appropriate song. I included links to the artist's web site, to show the lyrics and also potentially purchase the album containing the song. After I did so, it occurred to me that a commercial link might be inappropriate. I checked the policies and guidelines, and saw nothing on this topic. Is it OK? (FWIW, I have no connection to the artist except for enjoying his music and purchasing it myself.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bfeist (talk • contribs) 21:18, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * "can be purchased at..." - looks like blatant advertising to me. Cheers Geologyguy (talk) 21:20, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The guideline you need to look at is WP:LINKS. Especially check out point 5 under links to be avoided.  Sp in ni  ng  Spark  21:50, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the responses. I can understand objections to the link; my continued conversation is intended to get the distinction, if any, clarified rather than to belabor the point. In this case, the *only* place that the song is available is on the author's web site; Point 5 suggests an ISBN link which is simply not possible. And, as stated previously, I have no connection to the site other than as a user.

In any case, apparently my addition was removed in its entirety; I'll do some research to figure out why that happened. I didn't think that anything except possibly the one link could be considered inappropriate.

Stub size
How short does an artice counts as a stub? Under 1000 bytes?  Jkj 1 1 5  22:02, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Its dependant on the amount of information provided by the article relative to the perceived amount of information that the article could provide.-- Kerotan Leave Me a Message  Have  a nice day :) 22:13, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Professional help in publishing profile on Wikipedia
Is their not a service where one can employ someone to edit and install a profile on Wiki?

I've tried but embarassingly "deleted" as "not a notable" person. This dispite having received many industry awards in my career. I do see others certainly not as accomplished as my resume in Wikipedia.

I'm willing to pay for professional services in editing and publishing my profile on Widipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jayhare (talk • contribs) 22:57, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There is, but beware of a possible conflict of interest.-- TBC  ♣§♠  !?!   23:50, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * "Notability" in Wikipedia has a more precise meaning than the ordinary word. To oversimplify, notability is determined by how often the subject has appeared in newspapers or magazines. See WP:Notability (persons) for more information. If third-party sources have mentioned you then include those references in an article about yourself to demonstrate and verify your notability. But again, it is much better if someone totally independent of you writes the article to avoid a conflict of interest. Sbowers3 (talk) 02:17, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It is actually possible to pay for editing help on Wikipedia. See: Bounty board and Reward board. --Teratornis (talk) 04:47, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * But I should add that paying someone to write an article about you, or donating to the Wikimedia Foundation, will not guarantee that the article about you maintains any certain form (anyone can edit it). The article might even get deleted again, since all articles on Wikipedia are subject to our policies and guidelines, which are complex and can confuse people who aren't familiar with them. Thus offering a reward or bounty in exchange for someone writing a particular article does not guarantee any predetermined result. --Teratornis (talk) 04:50, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You can write about yourself on WikiBios, too. They accept biographies about anyone, so there should be fewer worries about your work getting deleted. --Teratornis (talk) 05:31, 9 March 2008 (UTC)


 * If you really are that accomplished, then persuade newspaper or magazine journalists to write articles about your accomplishements. Then you will fulfil the notability criteria and your article will not be deleted.  "Accomplishment" is not the same as notabiliy.  A lot of unaccomplished people have wikipedia articles simply because they are famous for one thing or another. Cambrasa (talk) 12:46, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Log in
I typed in my user name, then the usual password which I haven't used here for 1-2 years, and it doesn't work.

I only ever use two passwords; the other doesn't work either.

Clicked to have password sent to me, and it says my user name does not have an email address attached to it.

please help. User name: teraustralis —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.173.45.164 (talk) 23:01, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * User:Teraustralis only has 5 edits. If Help:Logging in doesn't help then just create a new account. We don't have access to the password. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:08, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Mentioning a song that's about the subject of a biographical article
Is the fact that there is a song about the subject of a biographical article considered trivia? Should that fact be included in the article? In the article about Molly Neuman, I noted that The Queers recorded a song titled "Molly Neuman." Someone removed that sentence. He or she explained that he or she did so because it was "unpleasant"; I know that can't be a valid reason for removing something, but I wonder if it amounts to trivia and should not be included for that reason. (By the way, what's the software application that lets us see the IP address of the computer used to make an edit to an article?) --anon. 70.23.131.111 (talk) 23:49, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I personally don't see anything wrong with the sentence you added - while it could be considered trivia, it's not as though you're adding a whole section dedicated solely to trivia, and it is relevant. If I had to guess, the editor who removed it was objecting to the link, which mentions the names of several other Queers songs, which are certainly... colorful. However, again, I don't see much issue with that, as that's what the songs are called, and Wikipedia isn't censored. I would discuss this with the user who removed it, at User talk:Scentedgum, and see if there was some other reason for the removal. Note that this user hasn't made any edits for five days, so they may not be active any more. If you don't get a response, feel free to add the sentence back in, justifying your position in the edit summary.
 * As for your second question, the page history shows who has made edits to any given page, however it only shows the IP addresses for those users who are not logged in. Editing with an account hides your IP address. In severe cases of vandalism or sockpuppetry, checkuser can be used to find the IP address used by an account, however those IP addresses are not given out as a matter of privacy. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 00:41, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the aspect that Scentedgum found unpleasant may be the notation that The Queers recorded the song before Joe Queer learned he was getting shortchanged by Lookout! Records. --anon. 70.23.174.160 (talk) 04:56, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I think I'll start a discussion on the article's talk page so that the discussion is more likely to be found by other readers of the article, and I'll notify Scentedgum about it.


 * By the way, the software application I was thinking about was actually WikiScanner and I now know that it works only with edits made anonymously  --anon. 70.23.173.114 (talk) 14:04, 9 March 2008 (UTC)