Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 November 11

= November 11 =

AfD
I'm trying to AfD Coffin Joe (The Horrors) for non-notability and unsourced one paragraph article but not familiar with the process, can someone help? Mjpresson (talk) 00:27, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed. There was a previous AfD in April 2008 that you were linking to instead of a new one. Tan   &#124;   39  00:42, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You also need to add your rationale here. Tan   &#124;   39  00:50, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Blocked
Can a user relay a vote of a blocked user for a discussion, particularly at a page the user was blocked for?  Grsz  11   →Review!  03:29, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * If nobody else knows a general rule that applies in all cases regardless of the specifics of a situation, then you will have to study the links under WP:EIW, which explain how blocks work and what blocked users can do. I know of no such general rule, which isn't to say there isn't one. My first guess is that this question might be difficult to answer without knowing the page, the user, the offense that led to the block, and which administrator did the blocking. For example, the situation might be such that you are really asking for a prediction of how the blocking administrator will react to your relay of the !vote. Obviously that would depend on the administrator and the situation. I recommend asking the blocking administrator, since he or she might be the first person to take exception to what you are proposing. Asking hypothetical questions on the Help desk is risky, because Help desk volunteers might subconsciously fill in the details you omit and end up addressing a completely different situation than the one you actually face. In some cases, and I'm not suggesting you are doing this, people deliberately omit details when asking hypothetical questions, in an attempt to game or weasel - i.e., to frame a question in a way that elicits the answer they want. It's better just to lay all the facts out there and try to get a correct answer, which in this case would be: who might object to what you propose, and how might they respond? I.e., what sort of politics are we talking about here? --Teratornis (talk) 05:12, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Grsz11, generally speaking, no. If the user was blocked for involvement with the page in question, then almost certainly not. PhilKnight (talk) 15:43, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

help others
help others in the family —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.184.47.175 (talk) 04:58, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have a question? Did you read the screaming red notice that appeared above the edit window when you edited your sentence fragment? --Teratornis (talk) 05:13, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * After thorough consideration I believe this question was contributed by Bob Dylan. ♠ ♥ Trickrick1985  ♦ ♣+2¢ :: wasted-time log 05:30, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Special_Collections_Service
greetings,

there are things better left unsaid, esp coords for a sensitive place- please leave out any coords that can be applied to google earth. thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.144.1.120 (talk • contribs)
 * As the information is not vital to the article and the IP does have a point I have gone ahead and removed the coordinate template. Icewedge (talk) 06:44, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * And I have restored them, as Wikipedia is not censored. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 14:41, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Support - and quite right too. – ukexpat (talk) 15:18, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Publicly availible information should not be removed from the Wikipedia article. If it can be verified somewhere else, and is relevent, I see no reason why it should be removed from this article... --Jayron32. talk . contribs  18:54, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

What happens when you xfd an article with Twinkle that meets WP:CSD?
Should this not be done to begin with (by manually nominating for CSD)? Or is this okay? Louis Waweru  Talk  07:18, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Someone will probably nominate it for CSD anyway, but it causes a lot of extra work (closing the nomination and all that), it's better not to AFD it, but send to CSD instead. - 131.211.151.245 (talk) 09:44, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that's what I was afraid of.  Louis Waweru   Talk  15:15, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oops, there is a CSD Twinkle function...didn't see that.  Louis Waweru   Talk  15:21, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Just a quick note about Twinkle. It usually handles CSD nominations, no problem. However, XfDs are a little trickier. I would recommend manually verifying that everything processed correctly. I've seen Twinkly mishandle one or more of the nomination steps, resulting in a malformed XfD. Cheers!  TN ‑  X   - Man  15:26, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Heheh, yep...I've learned to check on Twinkly.  Louis Waweru   Talk  16:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Twinkly… Twinkle…, same thing right?  TN ‑  X   - Man  16:10, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

How do I "bookmark" an article that I'd like to read later?
Hi! I was yet unable to find a bookmark function in Wikipedia, ie: to "mark" an article that is interesting to me, but that I'm not interested in keeping updated on each and every change to it (ie: the watch list). Up to this moment I'm using the watch list as if it were a bookmark; however this is very inconvenient because I'm (conciously!) mixing articles which I'm really interested in tracking changes, with those that I just want to remember for reading/consulting later. I guess a "bookmark" functionality would be a very useful addition to Wikipedia (if it's not already there). After all, it does exist in "paper" encyclopedias! ;-)) Many Thanks & Kind Regards for your advice, DPdH (talk) 07:38, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia has no bookmark functionality itself, but you can always use your browsers bookmark tool. Icewedge (talk) 07:40, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the fast response. That's not the tool I was looking for, as I do not always browse using the same machine (I guess I'm not the only one!). Regards, DPdH (talk) 07:49, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You could just keep a list of links on your userpage. Algebraist 09:49, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * There are sites that allow for keeping your bookmarks online. - 131.211.151.245 (talk) 09:45, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You could sign up for a bookmarking website, like google bookmarks or del.icio.us --George100 (talk) 10:39, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Why not just add a link to the article, from your user page? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 14:43, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Might be able to have someone do this for you. Meaning make a javascript that adds a bookmark tab where the other tabs are on the tops of pages, and clicking it adds it to a page like User:DPdH/Bookmarks.  Louis Waweru   Talk  15:59, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Did you mean the Watch feature? Or, if you have Firefox, you can simply go to the "Bookmarks" tab, and press "Bookmark this Page".  Im per a t § r (Talk) 15:59, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

i need to remove an image from one article
Dear Sir/Miss,

I need to remove a picture from one of wikipedia's article,should I just go ahead and remove it according to the procedures explained or should I contact an administrator to do that.I am a huge fan of wikipedia and I have been using it for a long time now,also I am planning to collect some money for you and make a donation soon.

Keep up the good work.

ascendam —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ascendam (talk • contribs) 09:13, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * There's multiple rules at work here. Wikipedia is not censored, but copyright rules need to apply. If you're wondering what the best course of action is, I would recommend discussing it with other people. What image are you talking about? - 131.211.151.245 (talk) 09:47, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Archive editing
I came across an IP who had moved a large list of articles for creation to a subpage in our WikiProject. When I looked at the other edits of the IP, I discovered that he had gone through an archived AfC page and was correcting redlinks in the archive. I reverted it and left a note explaining that we don't edit archives. He reverted me, citing WP:RED. When I reiterated that archives are archives and left alone, he asked for the policy that says not to do this. ANYWAY - my question is, where would I find a guideline or policy that would more clearly explain what archived pages already say, which is Do not edit the contents of this page? Thanks. Wildhartlivie (talk) 11:48, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * WP:RED applies to articles, not archives. - 131.211.151.245 (talk) 13:30, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, yes, but still, is there a policy or guideline that I've not found that will specifically say to this person "Do not edit archives" besides the actual archive box?? Wildhartlivie (talk) 23:12, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Multi-Sport Stadium Dimensions
How do you specify that the dimensions of a field in a sports stadium are for "baseball" or "football"? The only tag I've found is "dimensions", but that doesn't specify that it's for baseball which is obviously different from the field configuration in the same stadium for playing football —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.101.104.20 (talk) 13:45, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You appear to be asking about how to fill out the Infobox Stadium template (which appears in Veterans Stadium) to make it work for a Multi-purpose stadium. (Infobox Baseball Stadium is a redirect to Infobox Stadium.) Look at the documentation on the template page for Infobox Stadium. The  field just takes a string value, which means the calling code supplies the formatting. Just format it any way you want, for example with both baseball and football dimensions. The easiest way to figure this out is to look at the other Multi-purpose stadiums and find one that has the template formatting you like. That article lists these stadiums (or would that be stadia): RFK Stadium, Shea Stadium, Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium, the Astrodome, Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum, Riverfront Stadium, Busch Memorial Stadium, Three Rivers Stadium, Veterans Stadium, the Kingdome, and the Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome. On Wikipedia, often the easiest way to figure something out is to find another article that does what you want. --Teratornis (talk) 20:31, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, I looked at all of those stadiums, and none of them list football dimensions in their Infobox Stadium calls. So if I were you, I wouldn't worry about it. (Hundreds of other editors worked on all these articles and they didn't see the need to list football dimensions. If you wanted to change that precedent, it might mean persuading lots of people, and that is usually a dubious prospect on Wikipedia.) Just give the baseball dimensions. The football field dimension will always be the standard size anyway. The only dimensions you might meaningfully list for the football layouts would be the distances from the sidelines or end zones to the seats, I guess. But the playing field dimensions are the same for every football stadium for a given variety of football (American, Canadian, Association, Australian, etc.). --Teratornis (talk) 20:56, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Not true of Association Football or Aussie rules: see football pitch and Laws of Australian football. Algebraist 20:59, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I learn something new every day, but still you're talking about standards, which is unlike baseball stadiums, which are all individually different in terms of outfield dimensions. It looks like American football-only stadiums do not list dimensions (e.g., Paul Brown Stadium). --Teratornis (talk) 23:07, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I get undesired gzipped pages
For my website I want to use content from some Wikipedia pages. To do this I read them from PHP with either fopen or as a HTTP request. However, some pages I cannot use because I get them GZIPped. There is no way to turn this of. I even tried "Accept-Encoding: identity" but it does not work.

Some pages with this problem are: http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bjarne_Brustad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selim_Palmgren http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Woolfenden http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin_Sonata_No._9_(Beethoven) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._1_(Beethoven) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_Quartet_No._14_(Beethoven) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._3_%28Rachmaninoff%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._5_%28Bruckner%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._0_(Bruckner) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_Concerto_(Telemann)

I did use the search box and found one other person who had a similar gzip problem with an old browser and who was advised to use a https version of the page. However, as I use a few hundred pages that is for me no option. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roffel (talk • contribs) 14:34, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Retrieving Wikipedia articles with a web crawler is not allowed. It's preferable to get your content from your own copy of the database that you can download. All the information about this is available at Database_download. P retzels Talk! 17:49, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Did you read the page you referred too? It talks about a recommendation - it does not forbid anything. And what do you think is more Wikipedia-friendly: crawling a few hundred pages (40 MB at most) or downloading the whole database (4.1 GB)? But the real problem that one or more of the Wikipedia servers are set up wrongly so that users who cannot handle GZIPped pages get about 1 in 40 pages unreadable. Roffel (talk) 19:52, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You should probably bring up this topic at WP:VPT if you're reporting a technical issue with the server not honoring your http request and providing gzipped content. Aaronw (talk) 22:40, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Transcluded Template
I created a template that lists several variables on the page -- article name, date, source. My template lists information about an article, including the source of the article. In my template I have a variable "Source". This is created from a property which is a type of Page. I used the show function as follows: How do I take the results of that query and make it a transcluded page? I am seeking to transclude the page from one of the variables into another page. I used to transclude other pages but I can't seem to do it with this show function and the variable on the page. Plus, I need to slightly change the name of the page for it to work. For example, the Source is Department of Agriculture but the page that contains the data to be transcluded is Department of Agriculture Office. So how is the data from the Source Page Office transcluded onto the Article Information page. I'm putting this into a boilerplate so that it can be repeated. Thanks for your help. Jacksondor (talk) 16:18, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I suggest carefully reading How To Ask Questions The Smart Way and trying again. I would be very surprised if anyone reading the Help desk just now could answer the question as you phrased it without seeing an example template, as well as links to all the articles you mention. Special:Contributions/Jacksondor shows that you have only four edits on Wikipedia under your username, all on this Help desk question. Are you asking about a template you are writing on Wikipedia, or on some other MediaWiki wiki? This Help desk is for questions about using Wikipedia, as the screaming red message banner above the edit window proclaims. If you have a question about another MediaWiki wiki, ask on mw:Project:Support desk, but first read how to ask questions the smart way, because you aren't including nearly enough information to make your question as easy to answer as possible. When you ask for free help, don't ask people to work harder than necessary on your behalf. That is, don't expect other people to spend much time just trying to figure out what you are asking. When you are asking about code, show the whole sample of code, not just isolated fragments. But don't paste it into the question, give a link to your template page so people can play with it. Few people can just look at a complex example of code and execute it in their heads like a computer. Most people have to run the code on a computer and see what it does. --Teratornis (talk) 20:44, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I might add that if you are trying to run MediaWiki like a structured wiki, you may be in for difficulty. You might need to install or write one or more extensions to get extra database features in your wiki (assuming you are talking about your own wiki, and not Wikipedia where ordinary users aren't allowed to install extensions). If you learn to write your own extensions, you can customize your wiki any way you want, limited only by your skill. Or you could look at TWiki which claims to provide structured wiki features. --Teratornis (talk) 20:48, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Long URLs in cite
I would like to use the citation, "" However, as you can see, the url string is so long that part of it is shown in the citation string. How can I create the Wikipedia cite so that it does not show any part of the URL. Thanks. -- Suntag  ☼  17:39, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Is this webpage a link to the same place? If so, it may be easier to use it. I'm not sure about the template though.  TN ‑  X   - Man  18:18, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Tnxman307. The article actually is at

-- Suntag  ☼  19:17, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I think Tnxman has the best idea, as it is the full article and does not require registration. For future reference, we can reduce the original URL. In the URL, you will find "action=search"; this indicates a query and the different query parameters start with "&". Usually there are a number of redundant query fields. We can remove those chunks one at a time until it breaks or works. The final reduction: "http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?&p_action=search&s_dispstring=headline(ASK%20US%20Q:%20Green%20waste%20recycling)" --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  19:31, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Tnxman's link is to a May 16, 2008 article rather than the October 24, 2000 in the cite. As for the original URL, I culdn't figure out which parameters were needed. Thanks for reducing the original URL. Also, "http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?&ArticleID=0000803576" seems to work as well.-- Suntag  ☼  19:42, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Additionally, you might want to take a look at WebCite as a means of handling the long URL. — Travis talk  18:19, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The original url doesn't break because it's long but because it contains quotation marks. If each " is replaced by %22 (see Help:URL) then it works:

""
 * But a shorter url is preferable for other reasons. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:53, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Can I do Offline Editing of an Ariticle (to make it appropriate for Children)?
Is there a way to edit an article offline then print it? Specifically, my grade school child is doing a State report on the State of Nevada and I the information in the Wikipedia is good... except I don't want to have to explain brothels and prostitution. I would like to be able to clean up the article offline then print it out (with all the charts/illustrations, etc) for a child to use as a resource. Is there a way I can do this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 15.195.201.86 (talk) 17:40, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Copy and paste it to a word file, cleanup and the do the report. Also there is now cleanup tage on the article. You may also have your child edit it here which would help wikipedia and make it a GA. It is not illegal for children to edit or even become an administrator. Leave Message ,Yellow Evan home ,Sandbox Happy Verdirins day 17:51, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I would also like to make a suggestion that you create a Wikipedia account using the link at the top of the page. You could then copy the entire article to a user sub page under your username, e.g. User:TravisTX/Nevada and edit it as you please. — Travis talk  17:56, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * As an IP you can not create a subpage but if you login it would be good too. Cheers. Leave Message ,Yellow Evan home ,Sandbox Happy Verdirins day 18:01, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

TravisTX's suggestion is a good one. For another approach, you may also be interested in http://schools-wikipedia.org/. --barneca (talk) 18:05, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Also, if for some reason you don't want to create an account, let me know and I'll put a copy in my own user space for you to edit. --barneca (talk) 18:07, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

TravisTX's idea is looking better; the schools-wikipedia.org site doesn't actually have an article on Nevada... --barneca (talk) 18:10, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * As long as you don't intend to copy the edited version back, it's not a problem. Make sure there's also a mention of the GFDL and/or Wikipedia somewhere. The kids probably won't care about copyright, but if any of the parents see it... - Mgm|(talk) 18:24, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict)Mabey put underconstruction or insue orMajor edit on Nevada or Reno or Las Vegas or Henderson or Home Means Nevada or whatever page you want to edit. Leave Message ,Yellow Evan home ,Sandbox Happy Veterans day
 * That would go in the Bibbilorgrigy. Leave Message ,Yellow Evan home ,Sandbox Happy Veterans day 18:38, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * ??? --barneca (talk) 18:42, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * No, that's the one thing they should not do; don't mess with the main space article. A temporary copy in user space is fine. --barneca (talk) 18:42, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Christopher Wren
I just typed chris wren in the search box because i was too lazy to write cristopher and was expecting to be redirected however i wasnt. Should chris wren redirect to Christopher Wren ? i know he was never really went by that name but still... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.133.0 (talk) 18:35, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * No, not really. Alternate names as redirects should probably only be used when the name was one that can be verifiably shown to be used to have been a real alternate or nickname of the person... --Jayron32. talk . contribs  18:52, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * So what about Bill Shakespeare ?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.133.0 (talk) 18:56, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Redirects are a judgment call. Do a google search for "Christopher Wren", all the top hits are the famous architect.  But the first page for "Chris Wren" are a bunch of different individuals, the plurality being for a house music DJ whom we may have an article about in the future, and none of those results are for the architect.  Everyone searches in a different way, and redirects are cheap, but I think it's pretty unlikely that someone will put "Chris Wren" in the box and expect to get to Christopher Wren, compared to the likelihood that someone will put "Chris Wren" in and expect to get the DJ, or the NYT journalist, or whomever.  But like I said it's a judgment call, so opinions may vary. Darkspots (talk) 19:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * If you like to do sloppy searches, you might prefer to Google wikipedia because Google tolerates more slop. For example:
 * which finds Christopher Wren as the top result. --Teratornis (talk) 20:16, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * which finds Christopher Wren as the top result. --Teratornis (talk) 20:16, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Kelowna Pictures
Have watched your night time news reports, and there have been times that local viewers have sent in pictures they have taken of the Kelowna area, I have a few that I would like to share,  but have searched your web site,  and I cannot find anything indication how this is done. PLEASE HELP>   would love to share my pictures. Beverlee Williams —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spike710 (talk • contribs) 21:02, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 6 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. Algebraist 21:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)