Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 October 12

= October 12 =

article referencing as per GFDL
Just wanted to double check,

If an article is translated from en:wp into some foreign language wikipedia, do we have to cite the en:wp article as a source of reference as far as GFDL licensing is concerned? Isn't it redundant to do so, or are other language wikis not considered in-house? Thanks. --Zereshk (talk) 00:04, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * If you wanna be a stickler about things (and we should), then none of the Wikipedias (including en:wp) are reliable sources (by Wikipedia's own definition). We shouldn't be copy/pasting the, even after translation... The correct way to do this&mdash;and it is the difficult way as well,  unfortunately&mdash; is to get all of the sources used by the other Wikipedia, double-check the accuracy of the cites reflected in the foreign language Wikipedia, and then cite the same sources in the en:wp. If you don't double-check everything you could be propagating "sneaky vandalism" from one Wikipedia to another. I am familiar with  a case in which anti-US propaganda was inserted into an article on a foreign Wikipedia in  a manner that made it look as though it was coming from a legitimate source.. but the article's text was precisely the opposite of what the cited source stated. Ling.Nut (talk&mdash;WP:3IAR) 00:27, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * When copying content from one Wikipedia page to another, whether or not it is between different language editions, the source page should be mentioned somewhere (for example in the edit summary) to satisfy the GFDL. See Category:Wikipedia translation templates for additional ways to specify the source when a page from another language is translated to English. I imagine many Wikipedia language editions have similar templates. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:09, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Template column spacing
Why are the columns at USStateChiefJustices squeezing together?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 03:17, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks OK to me. Maybe something to do with your browser? C h a m a l  talk work 03:21, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Notability requirements for restaurants?
I was browsing through "Category:Restaurant stubs" and it does seem that there is no consistent rule for what constitutes having enough notability for inclusion on Wikipedia. For example is the oldest Indian takeout in Glasgow Scotland notable enough? Is a restaurant notable because they have a Michelin-starred chef on staff? Seems to me this could use some cleanup, but I'm wary of jumping because the notability guidelines are not clear (as well as my own limited editing time). -- Kickstart70 - T - C 03:25, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I would say restaurants fall under the same guidelines as businesses, namely WP:CORP, specifically the header for commercial organizations. Does the article cite reliable sources? That's always the surest bet to establish notability. Cheers!  TN ‑  X   - Man  03:30, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

email received
Receieved a email from Admin at the Vietnam wikipedia, but never joined Vietnam Wikipedia. As i cant read it am unsure what it says. How can i find out why admin at the Vietnam wikipedia would wish to contact me ? Boylo (talk) 03:43, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Personally, I recieved a bundle of these type of 'welcome' emails after enabling the Single user login function. It may have been due to this, with random language wiki's 'welcoming' you by script as your username was registerd on all wikimedia wiki's. Nanonic (talk) 04:18, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks for the reply, thats probably it then, as enabled single user log in a few days ago. Boylo (talk) 04:42, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Person Data
Where does the Person Data stuff that is hidden at the bottom of biographical articles show up? I see links in there all the time but if it doesn't show up in the article, what's the point of linking terms within it? Dismas |(talk) 03:48, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Persondata may give you some insights. Nanonic (talk) 04:15, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Reverting vandalism
Hi, my name on-wiki is Master and Expert. I am an infrequent contributor to Wikipedia, but intend to do more over time. Recently I tried to get into anti-vandalism, countering the humour of the vandals by reverting them. However, I find I am much too slow to get to the vandalism - by then somebody with huggle manages to revert it in no time at all. I was then interested in using this tool myself. But one of the requirements for huggle is to have something called rollback permissions, which is given to experienced vandalfighters. I didn't bother to request for it - I am not experienced enough to be a rollbacker. Yet, I don't know how I can contribute to this area of Wikipedia without using Huggle, because I can never seem to get to the vandalism in time. What alternative methods are available? Master&amp;Expert ( Talk ) 04:10, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * See the list of tools at WP:CVU. I'd say Twinkle is the most used and most effective tool after huggle. Before you ask for rollback, it's best to edit some more and get familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Cheers. C h a m a l  talk work 04:20, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. But I actually already looked at Twinkle. I don't use Firefox, but rather IE. Plus, it'd still likely be slower than Huggle. But I'll give it a shot, thank you. :) Master&amp;Expert  ( Talk ) 04:31, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I usually look at Special:RecentChanges for edits done by IP addresses. I'd say that in my experience about 1/3rd of them are vandalism and I pretty much always get there ahead of automated tools. -- Kickstart70 - T - C 05:38, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

New Page
Where do you go to create a whole new page?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by King Cobb (talk • contribs) 06:52, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Symbol move vote.svg|20px]] Please see Your first article.


 * 1) Ensure that you have an account and you are logged in. If you don't have an account, create one
 * 2) Make sure the subject is notable enough to have their own article
 * 3) Find references
 * 4) Make sure no article on the subject exists under a different title by typing the subject into the search box to the left (←) and clicking 'Search'
 * 5) Type the page name in the search box to the left (←) and click 'Go'
 * 6) Click 'Create this page'
 * 7) Create the article, including all your references, making sure you adhere to the Manual of Style and our article layout guidelines
 * 8) Be aware that Wikipedia deletes thousands of new articles for failing to adhere to our policies and guidelines. New articles by new users are at extra risk of deletion, due to new users' unfamiliarity with our rules. Consider gaining experience by editing existing articles before attempting to create new ones
 * Cheers. C h a m a l  talk work 07:07, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Pictures
How do I put a picture of the topic on its pagePresidentgeek95 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 07:52, 12 October 2008 (UTC).
 * Basically, what you have to do is type [[Image:Example.jpg]], where Example.jpg is the name of the image. But you will probably need to change it's size, and provide a caption etc. Images will give you more details. Cheers. C h a m a l  talk work 09:18, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Collapsing on tables (colour of "[hide] / [show]")
Just wondering if there is any way to force the hide/show tag on collapsible tables to a certain colour. Like, for instance white on this article section (for the "2008 NHL Entry Draft (WHL) Picks table"). Thanks in advance. Much appreciated. — Hucz (talk) 08:28, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Changing the font color might work (I'll experiment after posting this). Having said that, and speaking solely for myself, I don't recommend it. I'd like to see templates have a fairly standardized set of color schemes. More importantly, light-colored text on a dark background gives me headaches (though a single word, as in this case, probably wouldn't do so). I'll go experiment now... Ling.Nut (talk&mdash;WP:3IAR) 08:36, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, you'd have to fool with the template itself, assuming it's even possible. This becomes even less and less advisable, from my point of view. Ling.Nut (talk&mdash;WP:3IAR) 08:40, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It's not even a template, it's a class. I'd have to spend several minutes looking into whether there's an easy answer to this question... but I'm thinking you need to accept the link color as it is. Perhaps others have more info. Ling.Nut (talk&mdash;WP:3IAR) 08:45, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * First off, thanks for all the help. You're awesome! I noticed that on navboxes, you can change the colour of hide/show when you change the title bar color (they both get changed). Like the template Template:British Columbia Sports. Maybe this is helpful for you? Anyways, thanks for the time and effort you put into this. — Hucz (talk) 09:13, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Figured it out. style="color: inherit" . Thanks for the help. — Hucz (talk) 09:32, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Texture Filtering
Hello,

Ive noticed that you dont have an example picture at the "Texture Filtering" page and i dont know how to edit pages on Wiki, so please, type in google pictures "i'll add texture filtering" and add that picture as an example to the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.201.199.33 (talk) 08:50, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Hello anon, and thank you for your kind offer of a picture. :) If the image is a free image, it can be uploaded at Wikimedia Commons, the central free media depository of the Wikimedia Foundation. Unlike the English Wikipedia, the Commons only requires that you create an account, whereas here, you must be autoconfirmed (an automatic status gained after 4 days and 10 edits). Best wishes, PeterSymonds (talk)  08:57, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Combining categories
Is there any way to combine two categories to view pages that are common to both categories? Like if I wanted to see which articles are in Category:High-importance cricket articles and Category:Stub-Class cricket articles both? 202.124.189.103 (talk) 12:59, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * See http://toolserver.org/~dschwen/intersection/ PrimeHunter (talk) 13:07, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

No idea how to create my page
I tried using html, and I read all of the other wikipedia info and I'm seriously confused. Can someone fix my page up? I spent some time on it and I really don't want it deleted. For the band image, I want to upload this picture -Thank you! —16:31, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * wow - i could theoretically fix some of that for you, but it's more useful if you learn how to do that yourself. i really recommend getting acquainted with wiki editing principles - for example by studying the WP:Tutorial and/or by trying your hand at small edits of pre-existing articles first. since you've worked on that page some, maybe you can transplant it to your own user space to work on at leisure, learn wiki mark-up and so on.
 * you may also need to get better acquainted with wikipedia's notability criteria.
 * meanwhile, wikilinks are created by putting double square brackets around words/phrases - Fight The Scene, for example, ends up looking/working like this: Fight The Scene. and you should "sign" your posts on places like this "help page" by putting four tildes - like this: ~ - at the end. Sssoul (talk) 16:42, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I reformatted the page but it will not stick in its present state. It currently has a proposed deletion template on it which anyone can remove including you, but it's also currently subject to speedy deletion as an article on a band which fails to give any indication of importance (section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion). In that regard, if the band is unsigned as the article says, and is not already know in the wider world—not written about in reliable sources—then it should not have an article on Wikipedia. Can you add some information on the band's importance to the page?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 17:21, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * When the first reply starts with "wow," that's usually not good. Also read WP:WWMPD, and WP:COI since your username suggests you are personally involved with the article's subject. In particular, see WP:WWMPD. There are lots of other wikis, and some specialize in music, without Wikipedia's bothersome notability requirements. Find some with Google:
 * For example, check out Fuse, Music Wiki & Forum, etc. --Teratornis (talk) 18:22, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * wow duly stricken - it was past its best-by date anyway 8) Sssoul (talk) 18:31, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * wow duly stricken - it was past its best-by date anyway 8) Sssoul (talk) 18:31, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Dubious sources
Is it proper to cite sources that require registration to view content on the site? &mdash; Mizu onna sango15 Hello! 18:29, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * My initial response would be no, but you should present a more indepth question to Reliable sources/Noticeboard. — Realist  2  18:38, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * off the top of my head, i reckon it depends on the nature of the site. a lot of very reputable newspapers have online versions that require registration, and the registration requirement in itself wouldn't make them "dubious sources".  less than optimally useful as links, yes, but not dubious as sources. Sssoul (talk) 18:39, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * (ec x 2)As long as the information you are citing is not controversial it should not be a problem, it is basically the same as citing an offline source such as a book, which is permissible. When citing such a source you should cite it as if it was an offline source though, using proper citation style, not just a link. Icewedge ( talk ) 18:42, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * We are allowed to cite books which require spending money to view them (if we ignore libraries which lend out books). I don't see how a registration requirement (by itself) is any more relevant to judging the reliability of a source than the fact that books also present the reader with some inconvenience. It would be nice if the whole world would adopt the GFDL but we're not there yet. However, if the material you are citing is about some fairly recent notable event, often there are multiple online sources you can cite. In that case it pays to search for sources that are convenient for the reader. See WP:FOOT, WP:CITE, and WP:CITET for instructions on how to make featured-quality citations. --Teratornis (talk) 19:24, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Just for the curious, I asked this question because I was unsure about articles citing the NY times website, which appears to require registration to access some features. I couldn't view a certain source because I wasn't registered with the site, so I was wondering if even highly-regarded newspapers such as the New York Times can be cited if not everyone has access. Best, &mdash; Mizu onna sango15 Hello! 21:20, 12 October 2008 (UTC).
 * thanks for clarifying - as others have pointed out, not everyone has access to the paper version of the NY Times either, or to every book or journal cited, but that doesn't mean they can't be cited as sources. Sssoul (talk) 04:34, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Can't find my article
Hi

i wrote an article (on a poet called Peter Blum).

i can see it on my User Page -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Klipfontein.

But i can't find it when using the Wikipedia Search function.

How do I get my article listed?

Thanks Klipfontein (talk) 18:30, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Your article is currently in your userspace. To publish it it needs to be in the mainspace. As I see you have been here long enough that the software will let you move pages, click the tab at the top of your userpage that says move and then enter the new title as the guys name. Icewedge  ( talk ) 18:37, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

meaning of names
hello. I am looking for the meaning of one particular name. When I searched  a lot of names came up and there was no place for me to put one name.thank you 76.180.114.13 (talk) 18:34, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Could you be more specific? If we knew exactly what information you were looking for (which name?!?) we could point you in the right direction! --Jayron32. talk . contribs 18:41, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * If you can't find information about this specific name here on Wikipedia, you could also try Behind The Name, which has nearly every name under the sun and its origins/meaning. Otherwise, you could just tell us the name, and we could try to locate it for you. Cheers, &mdash; Mizu onna sango15 Hello!  21:24, 12 October 2008 (UTC).
 * Also, comments like these might be more appropriate at the reference desk. I c eUnshattered  [ t ] 23:37, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Can't see article text when editing...
thanks, Icewedge, for previous help.

The article is now in the main space (why don't the instructions say to do that? i searched EVERYWHERE. weird..)

Anyhoo- when you visit my article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Blum), the text appears twice.

When I click edit to remove the text, I can't see any of the text in the edit window.

How do I then delete the erroneous text?

Cheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by Klipfontein (talk • contribs) 19:07, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * i don't know why you couldn't see the text after clicking the "edit this page" tab at the top. i could see it just fine, so i eliminated the duplicate part. i hope it looks okay to you now. Sssoul (talk) 19:13, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Random question
i am taking up my nls exam i want u guys to please mail me relevent general knowledge question to (email address removed) .can u please do thi one favour for me —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.192.192.231 (talk) 19:20, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Erm, no, sorry. This page is for questions about using Wikipedia - do you have one? I have removed your email address from your post as this page is highly visible on the internet. GbT/c 19:22, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Red Warning label
Hi. How can I produce a message/label at the top of my talk page in bold red font? Also, since Archeopteryx is a secondaccount name, would you recommend posting text from my old talk page to my new one as well? Contact me at my talk page, thanks.--Archeopteryx (talk) 21:16, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Melvin Mora
The history and content of Talk:Melvin Mora appear to have been reverted to a version from about a year ago--at least, I remember adding something a few months ago, and it's not there (okay, it is now, I just put it back). Is there any way to tell what happened, or fix it, or do we need to live with it as it is? Matchups 21:29, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, according to the page history, your edit was the first edit to that talk page in about a year. All contributions should remain in a page's history, per the GFDL, unless there is an oversight issue involved. Cheers!  TN ‑  X   - Man  23:24, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I guess you are thinking of this user talk edit about Melvin Mora, but forgot where it was. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:32, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Oops. Thanks for finding it.  (I still wonder why there is so little on the talk page, compared with other prominent ballplayers.) Matchups 20:30, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Pictures
How can I load pictures on a Wikipedia website?

Presidentgeek95 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Presidentgeek95 (talk • contribs) 23:11, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * You have two options. The first is that you could join our sister site, Wikimedia Commons, which allows you to upload any picture which you have the rights to, free and clear (i.e. you made it yourself, not copied it from somewhere else) and uploading it there will allow the picture to be used at ANY Wikimedia site (Wikipedia, Wiktionary, Wikinews, etc.) in ANY language.  The other option is to upload directly to Wikipedia.  Doing so requires that you have been autoconfirmed, which requires that you have been a member for 4 days and have made a minimum of 10 edits.  Once you are autoconfirmed, there will be a new link in your toolbox to the left, which says "Upload file".  A wizard there will walk you through the upload process.  Wikipedia (and all Wikimedia websites) has strict policies on the usage of images, and these policies can be found at WP:IMAGE and WP:IUP.  Failure to abide by these policies correctly will result in your image being deleted, so please take care, and make sure you know what you are doing.  If you don't, and have some more specific questions, please feel free to ask here.  Good luck!  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  23:23, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

new redirects minor or major edits?
Hello, when you make a new redirect, do you call that a major edit or a minor one? Thanks. LovesMacs (talk) 23:37, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * You can call it either a minor edit or a major edit. Neptune 5000  ( talk ) 00:55, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't really matter, but Help:Minor edit may be able to help you decide. Calvin 1998 (t·c) 03:04, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * When I create redirects, I usually mark it as a major edit. I think page creations are all major edits, but that's only me. Hope that helps... – RyanCross  ( talk ) 05:07, 13 October 2008 (UTC)