Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 October 23

= October 23 =

Lost draft of new page
A couple of months ago I became dissatisfied the Wikipedia page on "Greater Victoria" (BC) and decided to draft a replacement. I didn't push my draft out onto wikipedia at the time because it involved some questions of policy that I felt needed discussion first.

Now I can't find my draft of the replacement!

I don't have as much time to spend on Wikipedia as I'd like so I can't remember where and how the system files such private drafts and I find the help pages and the FAQ unhelpful: too many trees, not enough forest, you might say. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Floozybackloves (talk • contribs) 00:23, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Looking at your contributions and your deleted contributions (which you can't see as you're not an admin, but you don't have any deleted contributions), you didn't save the draft anywhere on Wikipedia. "The system" doesn't file private drafts automatically; you have to create a page for them.  So, unless you remembered to save your work on your own computer, you'll have to start again... PS please remember to sign your talk page messages using ~ . BencherliteTalk 00:33, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * A user subpage like User:Floozybackloves/Anemonopsis (which currently redirects) is a good place for drafts but experience shows that new users often place drafts and tests in strange unpredictable places. All of them should show in contributions. If you saved a draft somewhere without logging in then I don't know how to find it, except if you can find the used IP address and use Special:Contributions. IP addresses can change. You can get a link to the contributions for the current IP address of your Internet connection by logging out, typing ~ somewhere, and clicking "Show preview". Does that help? PrimeHunter (talk) 00:46, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * A common (and unfortunate) place for new users to type drafts is the sandbox, but Wikipedia's software periodically clears that out. [&from=Floozybackloves Here are all your user subpages] (just one, the redirect) and [&from=Floozybackloves all their talk pages] (zero, so far). If you don't like Wikipedia's online help (usually the problem is not knowing where to start, because it's a gigantic mass of interlinking hypertext), you may prefer to read the book: Wikipedia - The Missing Manual, which covers all the basics of Wikipedia editing in a serial order. Once you learn the basics, you'll refer to the online help routinely, for example by doing  searches on the Editor's index. --Teratornis (talk) 01:15, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Looking at Special:PrefixIndex/User:Floozybackloves, you saved it as a subpage. --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  20:37, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That subpage was created after the post here. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:10, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

plz help
how can I get the user boxes? Because I want to add some on my page but I dont know where everyone gets them. Thank u! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rockergurl92 (talk • contribs) 00:30, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * You've already asked this, I've already answered - look a couple of sections up. BencherliteTalk 00:34, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but how do u look it up? (and thanks 4 b4 btw.)
 * Replied on your talk page. BencherliteTalk 00:40, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * If you want more help, you can request adoption. Remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, so the idea here is to edit some articles eventually. The userboxes you have added to your user page so far express some general interests, but do not suggest much about the kind of article editing you would like to do. The easiest way to start contributing to Wikipedia is to read articles on subjects you find interesting, and correct any typographical errors that you see. --Teratornis (talk) 01:23, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Unnessary Page
There's no point for this page or any of its articles'. Thank-You. --i-am-entertainU (talk) 02:06, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materum
 * Thanks for pointing this out. I've changed Materum to redirect to the Nigerian city as there was only one valid link. Probably the page for the Nigerian city should stay because places are usually deemed notable enough to have articles about them.--92.41.205.233 (talk) 06:34, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

using google earth and wikipedia
I have noticed on google earth that there are links to wikipedia that display a photograph of the geographical area. How do I create one of these links. Thank You. M.B.Berry —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mbberry (talk • contribs) 08:06, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe that such links are created by google not by wikipedia. So you should contact them. —teb728 t c 20:55, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * They're generated from co-ordinate tags in Wikipedia articles, though. See WP:COORD for more details. Confusing Manifestation (Say hi!) 22:27, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Problem editing sections and subsections
The little edit links on the right hand side of section and sub section headings are missing. Is this a problem with my browser? or a setting in wikipedia? Sometimes they re-appear, but they have been missing for a long time now. I'm struggling to find info in any help sections, what's the deal? I don't want to keep editing an entire page just to access one small section. Any help would be much appreciated. Nick carson (talk) 08:07, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Try clicking "My preferences", then "editing". If the first box ("Enable section editing via [edit] links") isn't ticked, tick it.  BencherliteTalk 08:09, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * ...could also be a problem caused by putting too many images or templates all in the same place. It can be fixed, see How to fix bunched-up edit links. Ling.Nut (talk&mdash;WP:3IAR) 08:32, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it was a problem with my preferences, thats all. I have changed the preferences in the past but it seems that they are reset every now and then and the [edit] links dissapear. All good for now though :] Nick carson (talk) 08:38, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Tables--major help needed!!!
You know, I thought I was getting better at Wiki-markup, but the tables in List of Sesame Street characters have got me stymied. Could someone with a bit more expertise tell me why, for example, in the "B" section, there is no row-marker line between "Buffy" and her description? Or why, in the "F"'s, there's no column-marker line between the names of the characters and their corresponding actors?? In each of these cases I tried to put the relevant marker in, but when I hit "preview" the markers were still not there. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong--extra line breaks, maybe, or...I have no idea. I believe, if we're going to use tables in a list, that the formatting should be consistent, and in this case it totally isn't. Any assistance would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks!Gladys J Cortez 09:47, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Is that hows its supposed to be for Buffy? I dont know about the other one though. Thanks  Monster Under Your Bed  (talk) 09:51, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It should be: Character name, then a vertical line, then the actor's name. Underneath both of those columns, a horizontal line should run from one edge of the table to the other. Under the horizontal line, the character description, followed by another horizontal line running end-to-end. In other words, all the entries in the table should look alike. Buffy doesn't look like the other entries in the "B", and that's what I want to remedy.Gladys J Cortez 09:59, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * A further question: could this just be a browser thing? Because I just went back to that page, and now "Buffy" has a line between the two rows, but there's no line separating the "Buffy" entry from "Buddy and Jim", the item just above it. I'm running Firefox 3.0.3, if that tells you anything about it.Gladys J Cortez 10:07, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

The Buffy looks fine to me after i changed it. I can't see any problem with any of the "F"'s. I dont think its your browser because i just checked it in 3.0.1 and theres no problem. But then again maybe your seeing something i dont, someone i am sure will come along and check everything it, i am not an expert at all with tables.  Monster Under Your Bed  (talk) 10:49, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I have noticed that in FireFox, when you make the font smaller (Ctl -) lines in tables start to disappear. --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  11:23, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Well shut my mouth--that WORKED!! Weirdest damn thing I've ever seen--THANK YOU for figuring that out!!! Gladys J Cortez 11:34, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

What's the right place for burdensome biographical details published by relatives?
I'm having problems figuring out how to approach the article George Weller. It's excessively long, not cited in Wikipedian style, and filled with strange layout such as paragraphs that are multiple pages long, and what seems to me like almost random use of emphasis. I think the first step toward improving the article's quality would be tossing all the long quotes, details about the house he died in, etc. out. That way it wouldn't be such an overwhelming task to change over all the cites and fix the layout.

So why don't I do that? Well, it appears, putting some trust in usernames, that most of the content in it comes from his daughter User:Ann weller tagge. She seems to be quite protective of the article, so I'd like to approach it delicately. After all, she has cited her sources quite well, just not in the right style, and where she hasn't, you'd expect her to be a fairly reliable source anyway. So, the information is good. I don't want to hide it in a dusty Wikipedia article history.

Any ideas on how to keep the fruits of her work easily available while bringing the article back to a more manageable state? --Ari Rahikkala (talk) 11:02, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I see what you mean, both in terms of the content and style, and also the creator's apparent attitude to edits by others so far. I don't doubt that Mr Weller passes WP:N, but the article as it stands has multiple issues and your tagging to that effect was a good start.  Also kudos to you for not just wading in, tackling the obvious problems head on, and probably provoking a confrontation over what could be a very good and interesting article, given some help.
 * I think engaging directly with the creator on her talk page would be a way forward, with an offer of assistance to tackle the issues. Perhaps start with sorting with nuts-and-bolts formatting issues - refs, citations, wrongly placed external links - without touching content.  Add a writer infobox and request a photo from Ms Tagge - this would be a really useful addition if she can help.  Offer assistance with the upload and copyright if she's not sure how.  Sure, there are COI issues, but these could be negated with help from neutral editors.  If you manage to make a positive start and would like any help collaborating on this, I'd be glad to assist if I can.  Good luck.  Ka renjc 11:29, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Special:Contributions/Ann weller tagge shows that nearly all of Ann weller tagge's edits have been to the George Weller article. This suggests, to put it charitably, that the user lacks a general understanding of Wikipedia and the proper way to edit encyclopedia articles. I.e., the user's primary interest is in the subject of the article, and not in advancing the encyclopedia project. However, one way to show some respect for the contributor's efforts, misguided though they may have been, would be to find another wiki for them. When someone has poured hours of their time into working on something they feel emotionally connected to, having someone else mercilessly delete the content can be quite insulting. Moving the content to some other wiki at least leaves the contributor with the knowledge that the material is still available online somewhere. Something may be better than nothing in this case. What Ann weller tagge needs is a site that allows anyone with an interest to elaborate at any length about a person they probably consider more important than most other people would. For example, Wikipopuli is a wiki that runs on the MediaWiki software (the same software that powers Wikipedia) and has fewer restrictions of notability than Wikipedia does. Someone could copy the current version of the George Weller article there, and encourage Ms. Tagge to add her extensive personal knowledge to it. Then the serious amateur encyclopedists could clean up the Wikipedia article with no insult to Ms. Tagge. --Teratornis (talk) 20:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * User:Ann weller tagge removed all of the issue tags.  Little Red Riding Hood  talk  23:23, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * OK, I've made a detailed approach to the creator on her talk page at User talk:Ann weller tagge, and have explained why I have restored the issue tags. I hope this will encourage her to engage in collaborative improvement to the article.  Ka renjc 17:39, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

MIKE TYSON FACT PAGE INCORRECTION
ERROR IN WWIKIPEDIA MIKE TYSON PAGE. HE WAS HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION FOR OVER 4 YEARS NOT TWO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.16.185.247 (talk) 14:57, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for spotting that. If you have a reliable source that indicates that Tyson was champion for four years, please feel free to jump in and correct it. Cheers!  TN ‑  X   - Man  15:10, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The lead of Mike Tyson says: "Tyson was the undisputed heavyweight champion for over two years". There are several boxing organizations which often have different champions. I think "undisputed" means champion in all major organizations at the same time. As far as I can tell, Tyson became undisputed on August 1, 1987 where he beat Tony Tucker and the article says "Won IBF Heavyweight title and retained WBA/WBC Heavyweight titles, becoming Undisputed Heavyweight champion." He lost to James "Buster" Douglas on February 11, 1990 and did not become undisputed champion again. So that was 2 years, 6 months, 10 days. Article leads are brief and often omit details so I think "over two years" is OK. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:31, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Editing introductory material
I attempted to edit the short introductory section of the article on Voicemail (reading, "Voicemail (or voice mail, voice-mail, vmail or VMS, sometimes called messagebank) is a centralized system of managing telephone messages for a large group of people."). But there is no edit link for that section that I can see. How could I edit that section? ~Richard —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard Odin Johnson (talk • contribs) 15:23, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Lead sections do not have a link to edit just that section. You must click "edit this page" at the top, which lets you edit the entire article at once. Cheers!  TN ‑  X   - Man  15:29, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * See also Help:Section. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:33, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

fishing
WHY NO FISHING ON RIVER TWEED UK ON SUNDAYS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.209.15.16 (talk) 16:22, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Symbol move vote.svg|20px]] This page is for questions about using Wikipedia. Please consider asking this question at the Reference desk. They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. You could always try  for an article related to the topic you want to know more about.  I hope this helps. Please sign your post by typing four tildes ( ~ ) or clicking the signature button above the edit box which looks like this: [[Image:Signature_icon.png]].  Do NOT sign in articles. Den dodge  Talk Contribs 16:25, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Cast in Films
How is the cast in films suppost to be set out? Is there a set thing because at the moment to connect actors to there roles there are different connectors such as: "as"; "-"; "..."; in table form and others. Which is the correct one to use? Ste900R (talk) 17:25, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know, but in general these types of detailed style guidelines may lurk in one or more of these locations:
 * In the Manual of Style.
 * In a WikiProject (in this case, perhaps in WikiProject Film).
 * In featured articles (by example).
 * If you find conflicting information in various sources, you could start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film about standardizing this style detail. If for example you find two featured articles about films that use different punctuation between actors and roles, that would be annoyingly inconsistent, and would be easy to fix, although possibly not so easy to generate consensus on which style to follow. --Teratornis (talk) 17:32, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I didn't really know where to ask so I thought I'd try here even though it wasn't the right place. I'm still going to have to get this one sorted out though. Ste900R (talk) 17:43, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The Help desk is usually a good place to start when you don't know where to ask, but we are generalists here, so we don't know the answer to every question. We do, however, usually give you the clue to get to the next stage in the treasure hunt. You can be pretty sure that most of the people who answered other questions here today looked at your question, and had no more specific information to add to what I wrote. Which means this is probably a pretty obscure question, because the Help desk volunteers know an awful lot about Wikipedia between them (peruse the other questions and answers to see what I mean; it's kind of amazing). You should actually feel somewhat proud to have stumped us. When you stump the Help desk, you did not ask a stupid question. --Teratornis (talk) 07:41, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Against Her Will: An Incident in Baltimore. Television 1992
October 23, 2008 Dear Sir, You state in your website on page, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk/Instructions, that,

...about some objectionable content you have found in an article Wikipedia is not censored, and in our effort to provide information on a broad range of topics, we may cover some material which is potentially offensive. You view Wikipedia at your own risk. I am no longer able to find the article, “Against Her Will: An Incident in Baltimore” that until recently used to be on your website. A link to this article, Against Her Will: An Incident in Baltimore, can be found on a page in your website at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Matthau  in the section titled, "Television." This link suggests that this article once existed on your website. Was this article removed from your website within the last 48 hours? I am trying to find a DVD for the movie of this title also, and cannot find one in the stores. If it is possible, please would you restore the article, Against Her Will: An Incident in Baltimore to your website. If you cannot restore it to your website, please can you fax it to me. I shall appreciate it very much. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.176.158.225 (talk) 20:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * There was never an article about that non-notable TV movie. The Matthau article includes what we call "redlinks" for all of Matthau's appearances, no matter how obscure, in case somebody writes an article about one, and successfully makes a case that it is notable. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  20:42, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Yep. I just checked the deletion logs, and there was never an article by that or any similar name. Checking on the Internet Movie Database, the link for DVD details does not show a release. --—— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  20:47, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * See also Red link for how red links are used. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:07, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Subtlety or Nonsense?
Please will someone look at this edit. It seems to me pointless but perhaps I'm missing some subtlety.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Were&diff=244694328&oldid=220847470

Wanderer57 (talk) 23:10, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Probably nonsense, a variation on "where". I think it's vandalism, but I left a uw-test1 on the page in case it wasn't. Best, Peter Symonds  ( talk ) 23:17, 23 October 2008 (UTC)