Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 September 16

= September 16 =

Are press articles subject to WP:REUSE?
If a press article uses Wikipedia content, is the press article then subject to Reusing_Wikipedia_content (i.e. the press article automatically becomes licensed under the GFDL)? -Malkinann (talk) 01:42, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No reuse is automatically licensed under the GFDL. But if it is not licensed under the GFDL, it may be a copyright violation. —teb728 t c 02:08, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Would the press citing us, if WP were properly attributed according to the requirements of the GFDL, be considered a form of fair use or fair dealing? -Malkinann (talk) 02:12, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair use is not primarily about proper citation. Rather it has to do with factors like the purpose or the extent of reuse—like whether it quotes a sentence or a whole article. See the fair use article. Also fair use is not governed by GFDL. But good journalism certainly does require proper citation. —teb728 t c 02:52, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * If a press article quotes us a bit and attributes it, could the press call their quoting us a case of fair use/fair dealing and thus sidestep the GFDL requirement to license that press article under the GFDL? -Malkinann (talk) 03:13, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Probably. The law is complex, but the press do this all the time and are unlikely to overstep the line. Algebraist 11:23, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I see no reason why a press article couldn't use attributed quotes from Wikipedia. We license our contributions for any use, commercial or non - attribution is the only proviso. We don't gain extra rights to the subsidiary benefits, such as helping a reporter make a better story or helping a newspaper make money. Nor does re-use of our efforts place the other parties added value into the public domain. All we care about is that our contributions (meaning the specific text we've written) are acknowledged. Franamax (talk) 12:15, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Couldn't a press article which cites Wikipedia be considered a "derivative" of Wikipedia and therefore also need to be under GFDL? -Malkinann (talk) 14:06, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

(undent) Not really. If that were the case, then every Wikipedia article that includes a quote would count as a derivative work of the original source and thus be a copyright infringement too. As long as it's only a few isolated quotes, with attribution, it's fair use. If, say, half the document is copied from Wikipedia, though, then that's a problem. Confusing Manifestation (Say hi!) 23:31, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Help with statustop Template
Hi, I added the template Statustop to my user page and talk page but it is always showing "Unknown" status at the top. I have never used Java Script before, all I could understand from the documentation of statustop was that I have to create this page and this page. What am I doing wrong? Thanks -Abhishek (talk) 05:49, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * My only suggestion is to press F5 to refresh the page in IE or if you use Mozilla then press CTRL+R and it will refresh the page. This will then refresh the server cache and should then help you to display your current status. If it doesnt help then contact the person who developed it. ScribblewikiLover (talk) 12:03, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

importScript('User:Xenocidic/statusChanger2.js'); After that, bypass your cache and you should see the status changing buttons along the top. – xeno  ( talk ) 12:53, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You actually don't need to create your own copy of the statuschanger script. Just add this to your monobook.js:

I can't sign in, using the correct name and password
It says there IS an account with that name, but the password I wrote down (and normally use) doesn't work, and it won't send a new password because it can't find an email address. Isn't there someway to keep that name? 24.5.23.207 (talk) 06:28, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You didn't specify an email address when you created your account, right? Unfortunately, I don't think anything can be done. What stops me from claiming that I'm the owner of someone's account but just forgot my password and can't get access to the email account either? Zain Ebrahim (talk) 08:05, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * As said above by Zain there is no possible way to recover your password because I could say that I owned your account and have lost the password and need it to be sent to me or reset back to the original. If it could be done then I think Jimbo Wales would have a lot of different passwords. ScribblewikiLover (talk) 12:07, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * If the account is inactive, then you may be able to put in a request to usurp it. Confusing Manifestation (Say hi!) 23:28, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Simple name differences
Why can't the Wikipedia be designed to recognize simple and human differences in names that are in the Wikipedia. For example, as I have re-checked confiremed, the Wikipedia has an article on Mount Graham, but when I put a link into another article to Mt. Graham, the Wikipedia did not recognize this. This ought to be programmed in universally, and not just on a case-by-case basis. For other examples, everyone knows that Mt. McKinley and Mount McKinley are the same place, and so are Mt. Blanc and Mount Blanc.74.249.93.92 (talk) 07:06, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You can create a "redirect" for common alternative names for a topic. -Malkinann (talk) 07:09, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Or you can ask here for someone to write a short program to do this for all mountains in Wikipedia if there are a lot of them.--85.158.139.99 (talk) 07:26, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Help with the new editing chooser
Hi, I just came on now and found the editing chooser has changed. First I scroll down and choose a range from the new drop down box (like Latin, markup or whatever) but how do I get more than A's in any range? The other was more limited but for more than the starters I'm stumped. Thanks, Julia Rossi (talk) 08:50, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I just purged my cache and it all looks good to me. (I assume when you say editing chooser, you mean the drop-down box just below where it says "Do not copy text..." - the place where you get degree symbols and such-like) All the old stuff is there, in one menu or another. Purge your cache (ctrl-F5 on Windows), delete temporary files in your browser, maybe reboot - try again. If that doesn't work, just ignore me! Franamax (talk) 09:42, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry to have to ignore you now, but tried all that but no change. To make it worse my browser accepted the Greek etc before but now only has vertical arrow thingies as default. Hebrew etc has a default symbol and maybe the A everything is a default too so now I can't insert these alphabets whereas before I could. Is it because I've got Safari on a Mac Powerbook G4? I feel so ripped off! sob! At least I've got wikimarkup but I can do that already. Urnghh. Help! Julia Rossi (talk) 11:09, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * PS is there a developer responsible I can talk to? Julia Rossi (talk) 11:10, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * If you don't get some good responses here over the next few hours as people wake up, you can also try at village pump (technical) where most of the techies hang out. Post your browser and browser version, the type of Mac and the OS version you are running for best results. There are people there who have every browser possible running. Franamax (talk) 12:22, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * And also which "skin" you are using, the default is monobook. (Plus, you don't have to wait for a few hours if you don't want, ask there now). Franamax (talk) 12:24, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks so much Franamax. Off to the cot now, but will post the details you suggest in the am. Appreciate it. Julia Rossi (talk) 12:29, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There seems to be a related discussion at VPT already. Maybe you should add your voice there and someone might make a short FAQ on how to fix the problem (if it's fixable). Franamax (talk) 22:23, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Really appreciate your efforts Franamax. Found a solution and reported it at VPT here -- hours of downloading an update in other words. +) Julia Rossi (talk) 02:27, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Natascha Engel MP
Hi, a user keeps reverting the Natascha Engel page, which contains citations which are not relevant (for example, it says she attended King's College London and the citation is a link to their German Department homepage which contains no reference of Natascha Engel.)

I have tried editing the page to clean it up a little, improve the language, remove iffy citations, yet the user Lomcevak persists in reverting it back to the one they wrote which contained the iffy citations.

Can something be done about this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fetler (talk • contribs) 10:40, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * You could try leaving a message on the user's talk page raising your concerns and explaining why you think the edits are inappropriate. – ukexpat (talk) 13:48, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

My user name
I have made an account on en.wikipedia last year. This summer a range of IP addresses (including mine) was blocked, and I couldn't log in to en.wiki. I asked administrator on sr.wiki (my "home wiki") for help, and he made another account for me. Then I have usurped older user name. Since the block has expired, I can now use my old user name, but I can't answer to usurpation (I don't know how to do that). I don't want to change my user name. I am asking for help... --Geologicharka (talk) 10:46, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I put this question on his talk page with a adminhelp tag. Gtstricky Talk or C 14:34, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll leave a note at WP:BN, as it's a crat issue. BencherliteTalk 14:39, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm unsure what you want to do. You seem to be asking if you can usurp another, not stated, username (enquiries for that go to WP:CHU/U). But you say you don't want to change username, which is contradictory. Please clarify. --Dweller (talk) 14:51, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Article ratings
Hi, how do I ask for an article to be re-rated? I have just finished extensive work on a 'start-sclass' article, and I think it could be bumped up a level. Thanks,  The Moridian   13:03, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Go to the relevant Wikiproject's "Assessment" page (usually called Wikipedia:Nameofproject/Assessment) - there will be a section there called "Requesting an assessment" - you then say 'I've just done a number on this article, can someone please reassess it?' and sign your name. Someone will come along and review your article.  For some reason, broader projects seem to be better at reassessing. -Malkinann (talk) 13:46, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I would like to edit but....
It seems like the pages I am visiting are all locked. I looked at Dick Chaney and Saudi Arabia and they have a pad lock on them. Do you have any suggestions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elmmapleoakpine (talk • contribs) 13:17, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Those articles are semi protected, which allows only autoconfirmed users to edit them. To be autoconfirmed, you need more than 10 edits (which you have by now) and 4 days of editing wikipedia. So you'll have to wait four days to edit them, since you created your account today. You can edit other articles though. Cheers. C h a m a l    Talk   ±  13:24, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You may also request edits to those semi-protected pages by stating your proposed changes on the article's talk page, together with the editsemiprotected template. haz (talk) 15:10, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Haz. How do I find out what articles need people to edit on them? I think I have pretty good general knowledge to share. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elmmapleoakpine (talk • contribs) 01:24, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry. I also have two other questions. I think I want to try working on my user page first. How do I get all of those descriptive things that you guys have on your talk page and how do I get a signature on my message? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elmmapleoakpine (talk • contribs) 01:28, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Never mind on my last question. I figured it out.Elmmapleoakpine (talk) 01:29, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

My page is being deleted?
Hello,

I'm a member of the band Breakout Degree.

We have a page on here (Search "Breakout Degree"), I visited it today to find out it's going to be deleted! I can't seem to contact the Admin (Fabrictramp) for some reason; so I thought I'd ask here.

Why is it being deleted?? :)

Many thanks,

Milo. 195.44.197.132 (talk) 15:04, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The article is being deleted because it does not meet Wikipedia's criteria for Notability, specifically Notability (music). I suggest you read through these pages to better understand what subjects make for appropriate Wikipedia articles, and don't hesitate to ask here again if there is something you don't understand! All the best, &mdash; QuantumEleven 15:17, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Discussion about deleting your band's article is ongoing at Articles for deletion/Breakout Degree. You're of course welcome to join in there and explain why the article should be kept, however it is well worth doing as QuantumEleven suggests and checking through the guidelines before commenting, as you'll need to make a case there. (It is based on consensus rather than the number of votes, so you are expected to explain why the article meets the requirements). Your best bet is to show that your band has received significant coverage in the media - reviews in major newspapers are always really good for this. :) - Bilby (talk) 15:33, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, as a member of the band, you should probably read over the guidelines on conflicts of interest, to avoid bias in creating/editing an article. --Alinnisawest,Dalek Empress ( extermination requests here ) 18:24, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

editing my page
I recently went on to change something on the site "arlene baxter" which just happens to be me. And when I checked back someone had changed it back and then wrote that I had committed vandalism on my page. I think that is not right. I don't want the site to be all about playboy. So I am not sure why there has to be other playmates names on my page....would you please help me understand this. I also don't think I need my hieght and weight on there...what is the point of that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlene_Baxter that is the link to my page. Is there anyway I can remove some of the playboy content that is not needed....or am I stuck with whatever anyone wants to put on there?

Arlene Baxter —Preceding unsigned comment added by BAxRay (talk • contribs) 16:11, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The point is that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and is not censored. So if there are reliable sources for the information in the article and it is presented in a neutral, non-sensational manner, then it complies with Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons. The best place for you to raise your concerns is the article's talk page. Also if there is other material that you think belongs in the article and can be sourced appropriately then rather than adding it to the article yourself (as that would be a conflict of interest), you should also discuss that on the talk page. – ukexpat (talk) 17:17, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, please realize that that is not your page. It is an article that happens to be about you; you neither own it nor have control over what is/isn't on the article. You can edit it if you like (being sure to adhere to the conflict of interest guidelines), but you cannot remove information about yourself simply because you don't want it on the page. --Alinnisawest,Dalek Empress ( extermination requests here ) 23:16, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

PDF file-DOD file
To the WIKIPEDIA Help Desk,

I am a DOD employee, and I need to know if I can upload a pdf file to a page that I am working on. The PDF is marked as UNCLASSIFIED//FOUO. Our office would like to make this available through this site. Can I do this?Thanks for any help.CivMarTech (talk) 18:12, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The short answer: No. Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia. It can't be used as a host or a storage site, or as a document host for communal edits and such. See What Wikipedia is not for more info. Thanks, Scottydude review 19:19, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * If the pdf file is hosted elsewhere, and if it is an appropriate external link (see WP:EL), you might be able to link to it. On the other hand, I notice that you have not created your article yet. Perhaps what you want to do is use the pdf file as the first draft of your article; if so, you would have to covert it to WP:wikitext. In any case, please note that Wikipedia articles must be about notable subjects, supported by references to reliable sources, neutral, and encyclopedic in tone. They are also subject to merciless editing by other editors. If (as I suspect) the article is about your office, please note also that you have a conflict of interest in writing about it. —teb728 t c 20:45, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * On a separate note,since the document is a government document the information it contains is not copyrighted: it is "in the public domain." Therefore, you would not violate the GFDL if you do copy information from the document into a wikipedia page. However, you yourself would be in violation of DoD policy, because the document is marked FOUO. This marking means that the information is "For Official Use Only," and if you publish it, you are in essence allowing anyone to use it for any purpose. Once it has that marking, you cannot release it until someone with the proper authority removes the marking. -Arch dude (talk) 02:04, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I've had problems with publish userboxes in my user page... then my page completely vanished!
I've created my user page with some descriptive text & started adding userboxes two days ago. Now it seems like all the data (text & userboxes) got somehow deleted from the database!
 * Personal detail: i'm a new Wikipedian, also an advanced HTML & CSS programmer, knowing the importance of exact tag/wiki syntax.
 * I couldn't get many userboxes to show in my [user:Francsois user page], only the language-related ones. I kept saving my user page anyway (since it's written that the sandbox does only temporarily retain data, while i will be out of town for a period ranging from a few days to perhaps over a week). I've figured that it may have been the syntax preventing the userboxes from showing correctly, so i did try zillions of combinations... to no avail. Even with the exact syntax that was published in the userbox directories, it didn't work! (Then i though that one of my next WP interventions would be to update the wrong syntax occurences for UBX.)
 * At first, my page was still shown whenever i clicked my username > user page... for over an hour while i was working on it & searching for userbox templates. (I had saved it.) And all of a sudden it was not showing anymore, gone. I also can't retrieve it with the "follow-up" list. I was pondering why:
 * Could it be that since i'm going to work in both the English & French WP projects, i somehow need to know how to link my user page to the specific projects/languages i'll be working on/with? (If so, tutorials do lack some important info. Plus, i somehow doubt that i had to do this, since my page is not showing on either addresses: English, French.
 * Or else, could it be that when some wiki syntax is erroneous the page may get deleted by some server/admin?
 * (If so, wouldn't i get any "page blocked/deleted notice"? And why can't i access it at all?)
 * Or else, could it simply be either a bug or a temporary server disruption?

I'm a little weary of my participation now because of this problem. But i'm still wishing to contribute to this "grand" project! Thank you in advance for your helpul insight. --Francsois (talk) 18:40, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, it appears that you haven't edited your user page at all (see here.) In fact, it does not appear that you attempted to edit any page with that information (in error or otherwise). Furthermore, it doesn't appear in the deletion log as having been deleted. We're you logged in when you tried to edit your userpage? Perhaps you were logged into your French account but forgot to log into your English account when you tried to edit here (or vice versa). Sorry I couldn't be of more help, perhaps someone else has something more... Scottydude review 19:16, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * According to Special:Contributions/Francsois, the only pages edited by your English Wikipedia account are: Category talk:User fr-qc, User categories for discussion and this page: Help desk. As an administrator I can see that your account has no recorded edits to deleted pages. There is no sign that a page has existed at User:Francsois. My guess would be that you were logged in somewhere else. Maybe another Wikipedia language, or maybe another Wikimedia project, or maybe another wiki powered by the same popular MediaWiki software. If you were reading user box documentation at the English Wikipedia but trying to use the userboxes at another wiki then it would explain why many of them didn't work. Maybe you can see which pages you have visited in your browser history. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:50, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

sharing Wikipedia accounts
I understand that a person can have a few Wikipedia accounts; but one Wikipedia account can't be shared by a few people.

Is this true? If so, why not: given that editing can be pretty consuming of effort and time?

Yartett (talk) 20:25, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * For the policy on one user having multiple accounts, see Sock puppetry. The reason one account can't have multiple users is that each user is meant to be individually accountable for the edits made by the account. It is also felt that no undue burden is placed on editors by such a restriction, since anyone can register a new account, and since no one owns a page, any number of accounts can simultaneously work on a single article. Someguy1221 (talk) 21:19, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * But what if these people think much faster than they key, and perhaps one takes responsibility for all edits? Yartett (talk) 15:30, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * If one takes responsibility for all edits, then we'll never know, but he'll still be blocked one day when he exclaims, "It wasn't me! That other guy who uses this account that did that!" ;-) Someguy1221 (talk) 18:02, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Don't ask, don't tell. ;-) Yartett (talk) 18:40, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

script size
So I know how the make words small, medium, and big. How about very big and very small (like my +20 year-old WordPerfect on MS-DOS can)? Yartett (talk) 20:25, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Use regular HTML. This is size one, the same as . This is size five, the same as a one-equals-sign section header. This is size six. Xenon54 21:25, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Or you can "stack" the tags. This is big, this is very big, this is very VERY big! On Wikipedia, "stacking" tags doesn't work, though, because it's already the smallest it can go. --Alinnisawest,Dalek Empress ( extermination requests here ) 23:10, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * and a big thanks to both of you   (!!)    .    ;-D   Yartett (talk) 15:14, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * You made all the fonts huge in the whole Help Desk page with that! The closing tag is, not . Anyway, it's fixed now. Be more careful in the future ;) Cheers. C h a m a l    Talk   ±  15:23, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Indeed he did. The slash goes in front. Using a style attribute "font-size" is even better. For instance Big small :

Big small
 * But I don't think you'll need to use either very big or very small text here on the Wiki. As you can plainly see here, it's visually distracting (read: a mess). Lupo 15:33, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I noticed it and tried to correct it, but it seems someone more capable beat me to it.
 * I wasn't my intention to make superfluous use of these black arts. I'm still larnin'.  ;-)
 * Yartett (talk) 15:37, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

my peculiar list or category of cities
I want to make a list of a particular type of cities. I've never seen such a list before (though I suppose there maybe independent versions ---likely outside of Wikipedia), and that in such a listing, or category, I intend to create two sub-listings, or sub-categories: one which conform to my arbitrary, but decently thought out definitions, and those that come close to it.

Can I do this; and aside from simple editing in the internal link of such, what else should I know about putting in such links into the articles of the cities I list, which likely will be in the 10's, even 100's, when I am, and perhaps others are, done?

Yartett (talk) 20:25, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if this is enshrined in policy anywhere, but it is a common outcome of deletion discussions that "arbitrary" categories and lists shouldn't exist. For normal articles, only topics that satisfy the notability requirement should have articles. For lists and categories, they shouldn't exist unless the unifying concept is notable. For example, Art of the United Kingdom is notable, so there can be a list/category, Category:British artists. But something like, Art of the United Kingdom involving pizza is probably not notable, so neither would be Category:British artists who like pizza. So basically, if such a list has never be made before, it should not be made first on Wikipedia (see also, No original research and What Wikipedia is not). Someguy1221 (talk) 21:29, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * See Category:Lists of cities for some of the things we currently have lists about (there is no guarantee these lists will remain). Your list also sounds questionable to me but we may be able to say more of you say what the list is about. See also Lists if you want to make lists. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:03, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks Someguy1221 and PrimeHunter


 * Indeed the Category:Lists of cities: List of villages in Niue and List of cities that failed in their bids to host the Olympics  ;-D


 * Okay I'll level with ya'll.


 * I'm beginning to think I might have to create both an article and a stub.


 * I'm thinking of calling it "List of medium-sized municipalities", that is, municipalities bigger than, say villages, but not quite as big as cities: rather entities that might be called "big villages," "towns," and "small cities"; or municipal entities between the populations of, say 10 000, and less than 100 000; and aren't suburbs that, say Culver City, Beverly Hills, Hawaiian Gardens, are of Los Angeles. (I'm wouldn't be too surprised that one could walk from the municipal halls of the former three, on a sidewalk, to downtown LA.)


 * What I'm looking for would be independent of a big city, possessing, say, it's own newspaper (say a +3 a weekly); a radio station; it's own police, fire, and garbage collection; and it's own post-secondary school.


 * Now there is a designation of Micropolitain, but I find the definition vague, even absent; and it's not quite what I'm after. I'm no more looking for a "micropolis" than I am, I suppose, a "megavillage."


 * Consider three municipalities: "A" has 300 people, "B" has 30 000 people, and "C" has 3 million people.


 * Most people would figure that A and B have things in common that aren't shared with C; such as clean air and very starry nights.


 * Most people would also figure that B and C have things in common that aren't shared with A; such as a McDonald's-like resteraunt, it's own sports team, and +4 churches and +1 synagogue.


 * However, there might be things that A and C have things in common that aren't shared with B; or coversely, there is a uniqueness in B.


 * While I don't have all the facts, I'm sure there are many that live in such places that they could quickly and more apty elaborate.


 * As for my dividing into two catagories, again, the definitions are to eliminate suburbs and "regional municipalities." If some disagree a bit with my definition, yet wish to contribute, as I'm sure a few would, the second catagory would accommodate them.


 * I suppose this leads to another question, should I include a lot of the above in the discussion pages of my list, or article stub and accompaying list?


 * Thanks to all for your time and attention.  ;-)


 * Yartett (talk) 14:53, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

tag in Wikipedia. It's unnecessary, and a bit confusing too. Good luck on the article if you're thinking of creating it. Cheers. C h a m a l   Talk   ±  15:11, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think creating your own definitions is a good idea. This is likely to go down as WP:OR. You should stick to the 'official' definitions, if there are any, when creating such a list (with sources, of course). BTW, you don't have to use


 * Your comments, including about the breaks are noted. I do it as I find it easier to read aloud. Yartett (talk) 15:31, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I also think your list idea is problematic. It may be deleted if it's based on your own unsourced definition. It sounds like you are interested in US cities. There are probably too many cities of your size for one list, and there are already lists of US cities by state. See for example List of cities, towns, and villages in the United States and Template:Lists of cities by U.S. state. Some of the lists are or can be sorted by population, for example List of cities in Indiana. You mention Californian places so see also List of cities in California (by population) and List of urbanized areas in California (by population). If you are interested in US city population figures then maybe you could add population to more of the existing cities by state lists? PrimeHunter (talk) 16:20, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but your links, and others lists and categories I've seen here, don't help. I want some lists that have a decent, and decently simple, definition of what I'm looking for. While population, and a specific range of population, would be an important criterion in my list, it wouldn't be the only. 30 000 people can live in a bunch of high density high rises in a place like NYC; or they can be spread out in some district in a desert county or Alaskan borough. Such might even call themselves "towns"; though, again, that's not what I'm looking for.


 * Perhaps, if I define it, it may be OR; but the gov'mint either doesn't define it, or likely has defintions that are vague and unknown to me. Wikipedia's article Town is more into description and elaboration, than specific definitions.


 * (However, a few of these names of lists provide their own definitions in a way, such as List of cities that failed in their bids to host the Olympics.) So again I wonder if I can make such a list.  ;-)


 * Yartett (talk) 17:15, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * You can make such a list, but you can't use Wikipedia to host it, since it is original research. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  17:43, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

question about links to my User Page
I'd like to put in about 10 links into my user page, links to my user page, or profiles, in other sites: about 4 would be other interwiki sites; about 4 into sites who use MediaWiki software and whose purpose isn't too unlike Wikipedia's; and one to Answerbag, which might very well be my "main", if not quite social network, site.

Yartett (talk) 20:25, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Go ahead, many people have links to profiles on other sites. Xenon54 21:26, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, this sounds OK. See User page for the general policy. Adding a bunch of links that seemed like advertising would be problematic but your profile links should be OK. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:48, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

would it be spamming or not
Is it okay to recommend other sites who use MediaWiki software and whose purpose isn't too unlike Wikipedia's, to Wikopedians who might have an issue or two with Wikipedia in a certain circumstances?

For example, to a Wikipedian joker, could I recommend Uncyclopedia to his/her user page, or Consevapedia to someone who goes on about (alleged) liberalism?

Yartett (talk) 20:25, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It is OK to point out sites to people who might enjoy them. I just wouldn't recomend seeking out such individuals and making it one's Wikipedia goal to direct people to a particular site. The only real caution is you probably shouldn't point people to websites that contain excessively offensive materia (WP:BADSITES). Someguy1221 (talk) 21:32, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Ref tags and substing Userspace templates
I wonder if subst-ing userspace templates is possible within ref tags. I have a little userspace template that implements which saves me the trouble in entering all the ISBNs of a series of manga when I need to cite them, and I plan to subst them within ref tags. However, they were displayed as if there were nowiki tags around them, ie. There's no problem if I don't subst. What's happening here?-- Samuel di  Curtisi  di  Salvadori  21:03, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Footnotes says:


 * Avoid use of "subst", or at least verify that it works correctly. A Mediawiki bug prevents the expansion of certain (if not all) "subst"'s within refs.
 * I don't know more than that. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:42, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem is I have some doubt if a template like I described can be moved to template space-- or what else should I do...-- Samuel di  Curtisi  di  Salvadori  21:44, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Moving to template space would seem acceptable if it was needed to fix the problem, but it sounds like the bug affects all namespaces. You can make a template space test and request deletion with db-author if it doesn't work. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:52, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * What I mean here is no longer about a substing bug, but rather a template that is a narrow implementation of cite book is worthy to be put on template space as opposed to userspace.-- Samuel di  Curtisi  di  Salvadori  21:56, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The template in question is User:Samuel Curtis/CC cite.-- Samuel di  Curtisi  di  Salvadori  21:58, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I haven't examined your template but if it can be used by others and is useful for many articles then a template in Category:Specific source templates sounds OK to me. Please remove so people can quickly get an idea of what it produces. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:12, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect Information Cite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeneville,_Tennessee

The cite on the above page for Richard Dougherty, Greeneville: One Hundred Year Portrait (1775-1875) (Kingsport Press, 1974), 3. is incorrect. The author of that book is Richard Doughty, not Richard Dougherty. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GreeneSpring (talk • contribs) 21:18, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The purpose of Wikipedia is to be the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit, including you! Simply click "edit this page" at the top of the page and fix the mistake. Xenon54 21:28, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I have corrected it. Thanks for reporting it. As Xenon54 says, you could also have fixed it yourself. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:32, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Template footnotes
Hello. Could I please receive some assistance in inserting a footnotes parameter in this template, similar to the footnotes parameters in this other template? I've tried to do it myself but it's futile against my eternal nemesis, the template namespace. Hús ö  nd  22:18, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Picture error?
I was view the WP:BITE article and I noticed that one of the images wasn't displaying when I clicked on the image, nothing was there. When I clicked on the "file location". It returned a 404 error. What's going on here? Nan oha A's Yu ri    Talk, My master 22:48, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * A number of images were accidentally deleted recently, this looks like one of the ones that wasn't restored. I have reverted it to an earlier version (only by 7 minutes, so hopefully it isn't too different), although you may have to purge the cache if the image still doesn't appear. Confusing Manifestation (Say hi!) 23:22, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It seems to be working fine now, thanks for the help. Nan oha A's Yu ri     Talk, My master 23:36, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism
I received a message stating that I had committed an act of vandalism regarding an article about "spotted dock", whatever that is. This is a totally bogus claim. I know nothing about "spotted dick", nor have I ever engaged in comments that could be considered distasteful in any way. What should I do about this matter?

Peter Fowler, Oakland CA —Preceding unsigned comment added by Peterrrr (talk • contribs) 23:23, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * How did you receive this message? It doesn't appear to have been on your talk page, which is how most legitimate editors would contact you. --Alinnisawest,Dalek Empress ( extermination requests here ) 23:25, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * (ec)The user account you used to make this post has not made any other edits, and has never been sent any Wikipedia messages. Thus I assume you are referring to a message sent to the talk page associated with your IP address, which you received before logging on. If you received such a message, and it referred to an edit you had not in fact made, you can safely ignore it; due to the way IP addresses are assigned, the questionably content was presumably posted by an entirely different person with (temporarily) the same IP address. Algebraist 23:29, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There is also a box mentioning this at the bottom of IP talk pages, for example User talk:131.123.85.85 which is one of many IP addresses that have vandalized the article spotted dick. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:09, 17 September 2008 (UTC)