Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2009 August 22

= August 22 =

problem logging in from china
When i log in the usual way, i get the usual page confirming the successful log-in. But when I then click watchlist or main page or help desk, or anything else, i am suddenly not logged in. This means i cannot see my watchlist or edit under my user name. To make it more frustratingly strange, when i first started using this hotel computer a few days ago, i was able to log in with no trouble, and yesterday, it did this only a few times before it took my log in. Today, I have tried nearly 20 times: every time it tells me i successfully logged in, but next click shows me i have not. Any ideas (besides telling me I should get out of my hotel room and do something else)? 218.89.2.142 (talk) 01:00, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * See Help:Logging in. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:19, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It may be a problem with your computer. Some of the computers in Chengdu are...funny. I have a relative there, and he says sometimes he can't access the internet at all.  Intelligent  sium  02:01, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * There are well documented problems accessing Wikipedia from the People's Republic of China. You may want to read this page which has some advice for avoiding these problems.  -- Jayron  32  04:03, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Visual differences when logged in and logged out
I noticed a Navbar at the bottom of the Piper Halliwell page called Chronology of the Charmed Ones and their Companions. This Navbar is located on several of the Charmed character pages. It's not really a Navbar template, though, but just a table. It's harder to edit than a real Navbar, because it doesn't have the "v-d-e" (view-discuss-edit) that comes with every true Navbar. I read somewhere that these should be converted to true Navbar templates, so I gave it shot. I completed the template in one of my sandboxes and then created the actual template on this page. Then after all that hard work, I logged out. But before I left the room, I thought I'd check the template while I'm in a logged out state. It looked very different from when I was logged in. The spacings in three of the rows were all screwed up. I first had used "em" pad spacings and then tried "ex" and "px". The px got the closest, but even it is screwy looking after I log out and look at the template.

I first noted this "anomaly"(?) on my User page. I've created several Userboxes, and when I'm logged out, these boxes are larger and change the look of the page. The really curious thing is that the old Charmed quasi-Navbar looks exactly the same whether I'm logged in or not.

So I wonder if there is an existing or pending solution for this? &mdash;  .`^) Paine Ellsworthdiss`cuss (^`.   03:57, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know the solution, but you may be more likely to find an answer at the technical village pump: WP:VPT.  Mae din \talk 11:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Did you use two different browsers?  hmwith  t   14:42, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Template:Charmed Companions looks the same to me when I'm logged in and out, both in Firefox and IE8. I use the default MonoBook skin in preferences. Logged out users can only use MonoBook. Which skin and browser are you using? Using pad to align vertically sounds risky to me. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:25, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Note about using the pad template... I switched to the loop template. There is still a small, slightly noticeable diff in the Simple skin, but it's significantly better than any of the three pad choices.
 * &mdash;  .`^) Paine Ellsworthdiss`cuss (^`.   10:59, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

(out) Thank you all very much for your responses! I don't have but one browser, IE7; however, the information about the skin used appears to be right on. I use the "Simple" skin. I just changed to the MonoBook and found that there was then no difference between when I'm logged in and logged out. So it seems that when building such things as templates the MonoBook skin ought to be utilized to ensure that the template will look right to general readers. Thank you again for the education! &mdash;  .`^) Paine Ellsworthdiss`cuss (^`.   06:03, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * PS. Interesting, tho, that such a thing as changing the skin would make a dramatic change in the way a Navbar appears, isn't it?


 * Trying to align vertically by using multiple spaces (whether or not this is done with loop) can also be unstable, for example for readers with another font size in their browser. I think the only stable method for vertical alignment is tables with the vertically aligned elements in the same table column, but I don't know whether there is a practical way to do that for your purpose at Template:Charmed Companions. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:27, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

How to upload an image?
I have reached to bring the exemplary image in the article but am not able to find a way to upload the exact picture through the exemplary image.The procedure ia a bit twisty..specially for new up loaders.. Regards, —Preceding unsigned comment added by Olikawala (talk • contribs) 08:55, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If you want to add an existing image to an article, add  to the area of the article where you want the image to appear – replacing   with the actual file name of the image, and   with a short description of the image. See our picture tutorial for more information.
 * If you want to upload an image from your computer for use in an article, you must find out what the proper license of the image is. If you know the image is licensed under a free-license, upload it to the Wikimedia Commons instead of here, so that all projects have access to the image (sign up). If you are unsure what license the image takes, see the file upload wizard for more information. Please also read Wikipedia's image use policy. I hope this helps.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 10:48, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If you want to upload an image from your computer for use in an article, you must find out what the proper license of the image is. If you know the image is licensed under a free-license, upload it to the Wikimedia Commons instead of here, so that all projects have access to the image (sign up). If you are unsure what license the image takes, see the file upload wizard for more information. Please also read Wikipedia's image use policy. I hope this helps.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 10:48, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Article naming
I created an article about Step some time ago. It's a physics simulator included in KDE. The question is - the article's current name is Step (KDE) - would a more descriptive name like Step (physics simulator) or Step (sofware) be better? Kotiwalo (talk) 10:48, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I have no idea myself, but the best place to discuss this might be at the article's talk page --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 11:03, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Very few people have actually edited the article, it might take ages before a real discussion would begin. I don't have a clue myself, nor do I really care - I just want to make it sure it's good for as many as possible. Kotiwalo (talk) 11:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * This is partially just my opinion, but Step (physics simulator) or Step (software) sounds like it might be more appropriate to me. WP:NCDAB says that disambiguating words should consist of generic classes, rather than proper nouns. A quick look through Category:Linux software suggests that most article titles with ( brackets ) use something like "(software)" or a more specific descriptive term like "(web browser)", but there are a few "(KDE)" titles scattered about as well. -- &#9735;  Kateshortforbob talk &#9732;  13:32, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'll wait for a couple of days, if no opposition appears, I'll perform the move. Kotiwalo (talk) 14:00, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I think this is the wisest option - if no one leaves an objection on the talk page, then go for it! fwiw, I'll be putting my opinion on the talk page in a moment! --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 14:13, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I can say that the Step (KDE) title is incorrect, as Step is not a KDE. Rather, you could use Step (KDE program) (or something similar), for example. However, step is a physics simulator and it is software, so those would both work, and I'd recommend one of those two.  hmwith  t   14:37, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Adding pictures
W can i find instructions on how to add a picture?Sunabondu (talk) 10:54, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It depends. If the picture already exists on Wiki, then you need to read Wikipedia's Picture tutorial. If you want to upload a picture, you need to read Uploading images - but make sure that you read the Image Use Policy first! --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 11:05, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Or you could read the above response entitled How to upload an image?, which I have just noticed! --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 11:06, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Possible to delete my account?
Is it possible to delete my account from wikipedia? I barely use it, as 90% of my edits are IP edits anyway. tonyf12 ( talk) 11:50, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If you seek to retire, all you need to do is stop editing. There is also Template:Retired or Template:Semi-retired. Best,  ceran  thor 11:53, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * (e/c) Due to the fact that Wikipedia content is licensed under the GFDL, all edits must be kept for attribution purposes, and so your account cannot be deleted. You do, however, have the right to vanish, which you can exercise by (1) requesting your user page (found at Special:Mypage) and/or user talk page (found at Special:Mytalk) be deleted, by adding the template to them; (2) requesting to change your username to something that is unconnected with you (possibly a random collection of letters and numbers); (3) never logging in to your account again. The "right to vanish" does not mean anyone has the right to a fresh start under a new identity. Anyone who wants to continue editing should request a change of username instead so edits can be reattributed. --Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 11:54, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think that RTV would apply here, the user said he uses IP's most of the time, so he doesn't really need an account.  ceran  thor 11:57, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Just don't use your account. It will not be deleted (and in generally, cannot be deleted - there are very exceptional circumstances when it would be deleted, but not for non-use) - all edits will still remain attributed to it. Personally, I would use it rather than IPs for editing, as there are benefits to using an account rather than an IP - but each to his or her own! --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 14:21, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

proposed deletion of 'maple palm'
hi, i noticed my update to 'maple palm' has been proposed for deletion by someone, who apparently does not care about the lgbt film world. this is typical and why it is so hard to maintain steady careers for actors, writers and directors in a niche market. if 'they' don't know it, it's not significant... great... what a wonderful world this is. best, besser09 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Besser09 (talk • contribs) 15:49, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * See WP:N for our notability guideline and WP:NF for our movie-specific guideline. You can contest the proposed deletion, but the article is likely to get deleted anyway unless you can verify the notability of the subject. Kotiwalo (talk) 16:11, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Edit - the proposed deletion was contested almost a month ago. The article isn't going to be deleted (for now at least) so instead of criticizing Wikipedia's notability guidelines you could focus on improving the article in question. Kotiwalo (talk) 16:13, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Considering the poor, unformatted and unsourced state you left the article in you should be happy that other editors have improved it to the current Maple Palm. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:43, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with PrimeHunter - the article as originally written would be hard to justify for keeping. Thanks to editors Werldwayd, MichaelQSchmidt and ThaddeusB, who found citations and brought it up to the quality for a basic article. I am surprised to see this question when the Proposal for Deletion was removed on 4th August!
 * I must point out that the the OP (Besser09) is a newcomer to Wikipedia, so let's not bite the newcomer!
 * To Besser09 don't be disheartened by any proposed deletions! Most editors (even very experienced ones) have articles that they have created proposed for deletion! May I suggest that you re-read the welcome message left by XLinkBot on 23rd June on your talk page - it gives useful links to guidelines and policies. As a community, we do not care about whether a film is mainstream or LGBT - we care about Wikipedia as an authorative encyclopedia. Wikipedia is not censored! If you have any questions about other articles you may work on, feel free to ask here (or you can contact me on my talk page). --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 17:32, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

owners title
how do I get a new title for my car?lost the original69.124.23.128 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:15, 22 August 2009 (UTC).
 * This isn't a place for such questions. If you have a question regarding Wikipedia and editing, ask it here - otherwise, see our reference desk (note that we don't give legal or medical advice). Kotiwalo (talk) 17:19, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Legal no.png We cannot offer legal advice. Please see the legal disclaimer. Contact your lawyer.
 * - but in general, you would need to contact your local authority responsible for licensing cars. In the UK, it would be the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency, in Northern Ireland, it would be the Driver & Vehicle Agency, the US it would be the Department of Motor Vehicles, in India it would be the Regional Transport Office. You need to find the relevant section of your country's governmental organisation responsible for Vehicle registration. --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 17:39, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Adding Pictures to a new article?
I want to add pictures to a new article I'm going to submit for approval. How do I do it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.16.196.212 (talk) 18:18, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh sorry, I didn't see the previous question about pictures. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.16.196.212 (talk) 18:20, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

What Stub should this be catergorized with?
Cromapanax lobatus. occono (talk) 18:52, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Araliaceae-stub, but it would have been OK to use a less specific stub template if you cannot find the best. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:30, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. occono (talk) 21:13, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

1976 CB 360 Honda
I have downloaded a picture on the above subject and I would love to contact that person regarding his/her rebuild of the motorcycle which I do belive the name is Annecananne. Can you help me as I am doing the same but a 1974 360E Honda? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.61.179 (talk) 21:07, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You could try leaving a message at User talk:Annecananne. But the user has only one edit and that a couple of years ago. So don't count on them seeing it--at least not soon. The user has not enabled email through Special:EmailUser/Annecananne. —teb728 t c 21:19, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Can't find the problem template
It seems that a template used for most navboxes has been changed today. All navboxes that I can find (let's use Ohio for an example, and see the bottom of Bellevue, Ohio for an example of how this is clogging up some pages) have suddenly lost the ability to be collapsed, and I'd like to see which template has just been modified to remove this ability. However, I can't figure out which template this is — could someone please tell me which template has been edited in this way? Nyttend (talk) 21:59, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I also saw the problem. I don't know what caused it (may have been a software problem and not an edit) but it's gone now. Update your cache if you still see it. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:02, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanation: clearing the cache made them display as normal. Nyttend (talk) 01:29, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

adding information to your article.
my name is Neva Gilbert I was a 1954 July playboy centerfold. You have that information. How can I add new information to yours? I am alive and well and a working actor living in New York City. I have been trying to do this for days. How do I contact to add this to my profile? Sincerely,   Neva Gilbert     My address is [email removed]  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.233.60 (talk) 22:23, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Please don't put your email here, see the note at the top of the screen when you edit. Courtesy Link to your article. I would suggest you ask for help at WikiProject Biography. Thanks for contributing! occono (talk) 22:36, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The best way would be to find reliable references to the information your want added (see Wikipedia's guidelines on reliable sources) and then go to the talk page for the article (here) and mention the references there - explain that you are Neva Gilbert, and that you would like the information added (do not leave your e-mail address!). If the sources of information are reliable and can be verified (NB these do not have to be online sources - offline sources like newspapers and books can be considered as reliable), then the information can be added. Please note that reliable sources are essential - we have no proof that you are the Neva Gilbert mentioned in the article - even with an e-mail address - whereas reliable sources showing the information you want added would do the job! If you have any other questions, you can either leave a message here, on the article's talk page, or on my talk page (just click on "Contact Me" in my signature). Regards, --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 22:40, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, I suppose you should probably read the Conflict of Interest policy, but I don't want to bombard you with policies and you haven't shown any COI. Best to just ignore me follow PhantomSteve's advice for now :) (Well, not about the email, don't leave your email address) occono  (talk) 22:43, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for adding that, Occono - I was thinking of mentioning it, but I was aware that my response was pretty long as it was! I also specifically suggesting getting someone else to add it to avoid COI! --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 22:48, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Titles in other languages
I am not familiar with the policy in this area - is there a rule against having an article with a title in another language? The question came about because of this: Studierendenrat Evangelische Theologie. Can/should it be retitled and redirected? Surfer83 (talk) 22:25, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Naming_conventions says:
 * Convention: Name your pages in English and place the native transliteration on the first line of the article, unless the native form is more commonly recognized by readers than the English form. The choice between anglicized and native spellings should follow English usage (e.g., Besançon, Søren Kierkegaard and Göttingen, but Nuremberg, delicatessen, and Florence).
 * Often this will be the local version, as with Madrid. Sometimes the usual English version will differ somewhat from the local form as in Franz Josef Strauss; and rarely, as with Mount Everest, it will be completely different.
 * Hope this helps --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 22:43, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I assume this means the article should be renamed. I am too new here to know how to do that so if someone else would care to do it (or point me to the instruction page) I will. Surfer83 (talk) 22:49, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I have moved it to Evangelical Theology Student Council (which is a better translation than the original given on the page, I think) --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 23:09, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

[intervening edit conflict which now make much of this moot]


 * But you don't need to delete the German title, which would still be useful to many people and may already have been linked (either within Wikipedia or outside). In fact you shouldn't. Instead redirect the page to the new English-language title once the move has been completed. (This occasionally works in reverse when the foreign-language title is better-known than its English equivalent, but this wouldn't be such an instance.) The redirection would be part of properly-managed move, anyway, but I just thought I'd explain.
 * By all means, don't hesitate to ask an administrator for help in Moving or Renaming a Page (there should be a link at the top of the edit or discussion page). Yankee Stadium (1923) and Yankee Stadium ares still suffering from a well-intentioned but badly-managed move by an inexperienced editor (there are hundreds of older links to "Yankee Stadium" that still haven't been checked for where they should now go.) —— Shakescene (talk) 23:18, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that, Shakescene. However, if someone types in the German title, they would be redirected there - and "What Links Here" showed only one page which was not a User Page or administrative-type of page - and I am about to correct the link on that page to link directly to the article. If there had been a lot of other pages which linked to it, I would have referred this to someone more knowledgeable! --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 10:20, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Correction - even that one was a redirect page! The article is actually an orphan! (The links it has are either to User pages or "Wikipedia:WikiProject Notability/Listing by project" listings (plus this Help Desk). --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 10:24, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Prince Namor
I edited the Prince Namor page by putting his being mentioned by name in song lyrics, and its not there anymore. I even gave a reference. What is up with that? If you want I should scan a Misfits booklet with the lyrics, I can.

-Kevin —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nightwing Returns (talk • contribs) 23:28, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * (I added the section heading above, and incidentally linked to the article.) The editor (67.175.176.178) who removed your item and somebody else's didn't give a reason, but I would agree with them that a passing mention in a song is not an encyclopedically notable fact, even if it is sourced. If you want to argue the case, the place to do so is on the article's talk page, but you might also put a note on 67.175.176.178's talk page telling them of your concern and inviting them to join in the discussion. --ColinFine (talk) 00:36, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

FFD when?
There seems to have been a WP:FFD debate or a WP:CSD action without notification to me for File:20090120 Oath with Closed Caption.JPG. It is also possible the file got moved to commons without notifying me. How can I figure out what went on. The article was formerly included in First 100 days of Barack Obama's presidency as shown by this edit.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 23:34, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The logs for File:20090120 Oath with Closed Caption.JPG shows it was moved to Commons and therefore speedily deleted at Wikipedia without discussion. Click log at commons:File:20090120 Oath with Closed Caption.JPG to see it was recently deleted at Commons after discussion at commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:20090120 Oath with Closed Caption.JPG. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:25, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I will talk with regarding his nomination of the commons deletion.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:45, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Usage of words or phrases in articles
I remember once seeing a tool used to identify instances of words or phrases in articles - somebody was illustrating the number of times YouTube was cited by entering 'youtube.com'. Does anyone know where I might find it? Yohan euan o4 (talk) 23:38, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know what specific tool you saw but go to Google and limit it to searching Wikipedia by typing . Place your search for a phrase in quotes either before or after the limiter (with a space between it and the quoted phrase). You can also use Special:LinkSearch to search  all Wikipedia pages that link to a particular external site like youtube.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:49, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You can use Special:LinkSearch to find where external links are used. This and other tools are available through the Special pages link in the left toolbox. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 11:27, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, both of these are useful. Yohan euan o4 (talk) 13:07, 23 August 2009 (UTC)