Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2009 August 23

= August 23 =

Genealogy of Umberto 11 and Maria Jose of Belgium
How do I go about obtaining a complete genealogy including in book form if possible? If not in book form other means to obtain.

Thank you.

Frances —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.77.112.27 (talk) 00:14, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It is best if you ask this at Reference desk/Humanities. This page is for Help with Wikipedia in general.  Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 05:05, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 6 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 11:31, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

wikipedia logo - a foot?
why is the wikipedia logo (located on the top left corner) that of a foot and what appears to be a blueprint of high heels. is this just me or is this an error/hacking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.53.3.122 (talk)
 * I don't see what you ar seeing. Looks normal to me.-- SPhilbrick  T  00:51, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't see it either. On which page did you see this? PrimeHunter (talk) 01:09, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Twinkle
It there another way to report a user using twinkle than going to the user's talk page?  Btilm  01:03, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You must be on a user's user or talk page in order to be able to warn or report to AIV. Twinkle's documentation is pretty thorough and you should definitely become familiar with it before going off and using the script. Remember that you are always completely responsible for any edit you make with Twinkle, and misusing it can get you blocked. Xenon54 (talk) 02:24, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Should Meta....
...be moved to Meta-Wiki? It seems to be in the wrong namespace. occono (talk) 01:36, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Occono. Meta-wiki is not in a different namespace but is a different site. Meta-Wiki is the global community site for all of the Wikimedia Foundation's projects, which includes Wikipedia. Because of its relationship to Wikipedia, it seems appropriate to have an administrative page here explaining it. Administrative pages are placed in the Wikipedia namespace. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 01:52, 23 August 2009 (UTC) (misread your post, obviously)
 * ....I know that stuff :) The template at the bottom of the page links to other Articles on Wikimedia Foundation projects, only Meta is in the Wikipedia namespace, why? It seems to be an Encyclopedic article on Meta-Wiki. occono (talk) 02:00, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There may be enough reliable sources on the site itself to create a targeted article. If so, go right ahead and edit the redirect. The material from the administrative page can be merged into the article and ultimately redirected there. I guess it could be moved over the redirect but I wouldn't call it presently an encyclopedic article because it lacks sources. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 02:09, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't like moving Articles :( Somebody else make the call, please. occono (talk) 19:44, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Meta-Wiki is currently a redirect to Wikimedia Foundation. Therefore only an administrator could properly move a page over the existing redirect (avoiding a cut and paste move). However, that might be doubtful because Meta is a longstanding page in project space, about a wiki of primary interest to Wikipedia editors rather than readers. However, I can see the problem in having Meta-Wiki as a rather degenerate redirect. (I consider a redirect to be "degenerate" when it links to an article describing a much larger set that contains what the reader was probably trying to look up. Imagine for example searching for France and instead getting redirected to Europe or Country.) Currently the redirect may be rather confusing to someone who wants the Meta page. You could fix that by adding a Hatnote to the top of Wikimedia Foundation (perhaps with the Redirect template) that says:
 * Meta-Wiki redirects here. For information about the coordinating wiki for all Wikimedia Foundation projects, see Meta.
 * However, I suggest discussing this first on Talk:Wikimedia Foundation to get some other opinions. This article is likely to get a attention from a lot of established editors. --Teratornis (talk) 19:19, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Naming for placenames and search
I just created a new entry for the village of Wynndel, British Columbia, Canada. I don't understand why if I enter "Wynndel" or "Wynndel, BC" (with or without the comma) into the search box I don't get a matching entry. Entering "Wynndel British Columbia" works fine.

Be gentle ... this is my first complete article and I'm sure I've done something wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mellobob (talk • contribs) 01:55, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Nothing is wrong. Your article is located at Wynndel, British Columbia. Unfortunately, the software that runs Wikipedia is not smart enough to realize that when you type "Wynndel" or "Wynndel, BC" you mean to go to the article you created. You can, however, make this behaivour happen by creating redirects at those locations. Xenon54 (talk) 02:02, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia's search index has not added the article yet (this will happen automatically) so it cannot be found by searches currently. If you click Enter or Go at the search box then you go directly to a page by that name if it exists, and that functionality doesn't require the search index. You actually have to include the comma in "Wynndel, British Columbia" to go there. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:08, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I guess I did it right then. I just assumed that the indexing was done right away. I'll check in a day or so. Hopefully I'll have time and expertise to add more in the future. Bob (talk) 16:46, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism
When is blanking considered vandalism?  Btilm  02:51, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Page blanking is normally vandalism, unless it is done to remove copyright violations or attacks. Also, if it is done by the author of a page and no one else has edited it, it may be regarded as a request for deletion under WP:CSD. A partial removal of content may also be vandalism, or carried out for one of the reasons given above, or a removal of unnecessary content per consensus or simply a removal of vandalism. In such a case, the editor would normally explain this action in their edit summary or article talk page. Recent changes patrollers normally revert unexplained removal of content/page blanking as vandalism unless it is an obvious removal of an attack etc. It's best to contact the editor who did it if you are uncertain. ≈ Chamal  talk ¤ 03:20, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * (e/c) I think your question is easier answered by looking at when blanking is not considered vandalism. Removing unsourced material from articles that you challenge is enshrined in policy. See WP:BURDEN. Removing material that is original research, or fringe, or provides undue weight, or otherwise is not neutral point of view, even when sourced, is not vandalism. And, of course, removing material that violates our policy on biographies of living persons is not vandalism. Vandalism, at base, has to do with intent. Is a person removing material for a good faith reason or are they a... vandal? (vandal=bad faith). What must not be forgotten, though, is that if you're going to perform such removal, always leave an explanatory edit summary and possibly a note on an article's talk page explaining the removal so you don't appear to be a vandal, despite good intentions. We cannot read minds so removal of material without explanation invites scrutiny and, depending on context, a presumption that the edit should be reverted. The word "blanking" often is used to refer to not just any removal, but removal of large swaths of material or a page's entire content. There are few reasons to do so, and such edits better have a good explanation. I hope that hjelps clarify matters. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:31, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * One important thing to note is that removing talk page messages from your own user talk page is NEVER considered vandalism; users are allowed to remove any messages, including to fully blank, their own user talk page, and such actions should not even raise an eyebrow from anyone else. See WP:BLANKING.  -- Jayron  32  05:30, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You overstate the policy. 'Blanking your own talk page is not vandalism' and 'blanking your own talk page should not even raise an eyebrow from anyone else' are two very different statements.  It is not vandalism, but I certainly perceive users to who habitually blank comments off their talk pages as either antisocial or trying to hide something, and will not, as a rule, support them for any positions of community responsibility. - BanyanTree 07:11, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

User subpage use
Is it ok for me to use one of my user sandboxes to create a document that isn't related to Wikipedia, but that I want organized and formatted like a Wikipedia article, so long as I delete the content after I have copied it into a word processor? Ks0stm (T•C) 03:12, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The content must be related to Wikipedia (such as the draft of an article you intend to move into the mainspace, something you intend to use in your main userpage etc) even in your userspace. See WP:UP, particularly the section WP:UP. ≈ Chamal  talk ¤ 03:26, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * In that case, is there any other place I can make the document wikiformatted? Ks0stm  (T•C) 03:35, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There are many. Please visit Alternative outlets and List of wikis. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:38, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Note that if you want it formatted like Wikipedia, use a MediaWiki-run Wiki. occono (talk) 16:47, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Who will know or care! Just get on with it because no one patrols User pages, as far as I know, for such trifling infringements (especially considering that you were kind enough to ask). - Adrian Pingstone (talk) 12:16, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Where is my newly composed page?
I just wrote a long page. How long does it take before it got published here. I am sure I saved it. How can I retrieve it. Thanks.EchoesoftheWord (talk) 05:02, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Your contributions at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/EchoesoftheWord don't show any edits except to your User page and this page. What was the name of the article?  Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 05:03, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed, you do not even have any deleted contributions, which means you did not save your work to the English Wikipedia. Unless it was written for a different Wikipedia, if you did not save it, it is lost for good.  -- Jayron  32  05:28, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe an accidental save to simple English or here under an IP? Cptnono (talk) 06:57, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Several things could have happened. Your account is not autoconfirmed yet so if your page contained external links then after clicking Save page you would have to answer a CAPTCHA before it was saved. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:41, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Time Help
How to display the time of timezone +5:30? --Srinivas (talk) 06:17, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Use, which produces  ≈  Chamal  talk ¤ 06:21, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Article Bad habit
The page seems to have some kind of problem, but what is it?--Mikespedia (talk) 07:28, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, you're going to have to tell us what the problem is, actually. At least what you think is wrong with it? Is it some issue with the article itself, or the way it is displayed or what? ≈ Chamal  talk ¤ 07:42, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

More like how the article is written. It looks really simple.--Mikespedia (talk) 09:43, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * For an article that is nearly a year and a half old, it is sparse - but unless the content is factually incorrect, then there is no problem! I will add an "expand" tag on it. --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 10:08, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I have also added an "expert help" tag (for WikiProject Psychology), so hopefully someone with more knowledge of this subject can expand it --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 10:17, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Logging In
Hello:

I might have registered in Wikipedia some time ago but I cannot remember the username or the password that I used to register. I have found an error in an entry in Wikipedia. How do I rediscover my username and password? My email is Thank You. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.234.243.88 (talk) 07:40, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * If you can't remember your username, it's going to be hard to find it again. If you have at least a vague memory of what kind of thing it was, you can try looking in Special:ListUsers. If you find the username, you can retrieve the password by using the "Email new password" option at Special:UserLogin. Otherwise, just create a new account and use that. Or you can edit without using an account, but your edits will then be recorded with your IP address, as in here. ≈ Chamal  talk ¤ 07:47, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you recall editing an article? If so, you might find your edit in the history of the article. The history would tell the username associated with the edit. —teb728 t c 07:54, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Help with citations
Hello, I am looking for a page that describes in detail how citations on Wikipedia work. I know I can just type [1] nad give a link to the citation at the bottom of the page but I noticed that some pages have special codes that link the citations. What page can I find this on? Thanks Tgv8925 (talk) 08:22, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * See Citing sources. And please don't just type [1] and give a link. You have to enclose the citation in tags to make it properly work. See the given link for details on how this is done. ≈ Chamal  talk ¤ 08:26, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link. :) Tgv8925 (talk) 08:29, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Hi Tgv8925, we have several templates for citations that work really well. See this page: WP:CITET.  There are two different citation styles that are regularly used on Wikipedia, so templates are given for both kinds.  You will see, for example, that for citing books, you are given the option to use either undefined or undefined (book).  I tend to prefer using the first format (you'll see throughout the page that it's given as undefined, undefined, undefined, etc.).  All you need to do is copy and paste the template parameters that are given in the Common usage column.  It should go inside your tags; if you're not sure how to use those, see the link that Chamal gave you and Referencing for beginners.  Fill in information after each parameter (see the other columns on the template page for some examples on how) and delete the parameters you don't need.  Hope this is helpful, too, :-)  Feel free to ask if you have more questions!  Mae din \talk 08:45, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Here is an example (from Robert Black (lawyer)) of the use of :


 * ...In February 2009, Professor Black proposed a number of Scots law changes so as to expedite the Lockerbie appeal verdict. ...


 * Put this at near the end of the article...


 * ==References==


 * says: . m:Help:Magic_words does not say whether that includes pages in subcategories, but the result looks like the sum of the pages in the category (11) and the number of immediate subcategories (58). Some of the subcategories have many pages in them, so that obviously isn't the recursive sum you want. Maybe CatScan can help. --Teratornis (talk) 22:47, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

PHP Unix timestamp
I am not a PHP coder, but am trying to understand a bot being developed (User:Full-date unlinking bot). I have done some online searcing, and found that a Unix timestamp in PHP is an integer. The amount of storage available for an integer is platform-dependent, but is often 32 bits (1 bit sign + 31 bit magnitude). Does anyone know the storage of a PHP integer on Wikipedia's servers? --Jc3s5h (talk) 21:40, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It appears no answer is needed, because the bot will probably be modified to avoid the functions in question. --Jc3s5h (talk) 01:40, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Vandal deterrent
Hello. I've been experimenting with creative ways of deterring vandals. The problem is, I can't get "last change" to link to the last revision of the user talk page of whomever attempts to click it. And yes, I have tried substituting "Special:MyTalk" in for the name of the target page where it says "title=(Targetpage)" in the url. Any suggestions?  Intelligent  sium  22:11, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Not sure what you are trying to do, but take a look at oldid. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 23:16, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

I was actually looking for diff, not oldid. And this was what I was trying to do:


 * Sorry, not resolved yet. Apparently, many templates do not work with Special:MyTalk.  Intelligent  sium  01:50, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What I need is a way to link to the most recent revision of the talk page of any user who clicks the link. So far, I've found replacing the target page with Special:MyTalk does not seem to work. Any ideas?  Intelligent  sium  01:59, 24 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Try ; when viewed directly, REVISIONUSER will show the last editor, but when 'transcluded it will show the viewing user. ---—  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 03:05, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it seems to work.  Intelligent  sium  22:51, 24 August 2009 (UTC)