Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2009 December 29

= December 29 =

A PENNY OF YEAST
i AM LOOKING FOR A MEASUREMENT FOR A PENNY OF YEAST THAT IS IN A RECIPE BOOK. AMERICAN GERMAN COOK BOOK FROM THAT MID WEST EARLY 1900'S. MY EMAIL IS    thank you   gary meixner  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.189.167.220 (talk) 00:22, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I removed your email address. No one will email you, and posting your email address on a public website opens you to spam abuse.  The question you asked would be best suited for the Reference Desk instead of here.  -- Jayron  32  00:52, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * And there too the people will appreciate not being YELLED AT.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 06:36, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Ever try a Vulcan mind meld with someone who thinks in uppercase? --Teratornis (talk) 21:24, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Not recently, but I once attended a banquet by King Azaz and the capital letters were quite dyspepsic.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 20:57, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * And of course - Pennyweight. Nanonic (talk) 00:40, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

frustrations at being booted out.
I spent 2 hours on the ron barassi entry which was marked for neutrality, structure, citing etc.

I was near the end. I had restructured, removed "glowing", found sources for most of the information - and included it.

I went to add a reference australian-rules-football. suite101. com/article.cfm / australian_footballs_irish_experiment and it just automatically booted me out and deleted all the changes. If you have an issue with the reference page (I can't see why) you should warn people rather than undo everything. It is really frustrating when you are attempting to so something that no one else has touched for 2 years to have this happen. Or maybe it has happened to many others over the past two years. Hope you can think of some way to solve this problem as I will be reticent to take on such a big job knowing that this can happen Gervo1865 (talk) 01:41, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Did you receive an error message when you tried to save? No one reverted your work to Ron Barassi, and the automated filter did not block any of your edits. It looks like it was just a technical glitch. Errors like that are more likely to happen the longer you keep the edit window open, especially if its been open for over an hour. Someguy1221 (talk) 02:12, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Special:Contributions/Gervo1865 shows 5 saved edits to the article around an hour before your post here. suite101.com was blacklisted after a lot of spamming so edits with links to it cannot be saved. See Spam blacklist/Recurring requests. If you use your browser back button then you may (depending on the browser) get back to an edit window containing the text you tried to save. The spam filter message says "Return to (page you were editing)", but that link does not give a window with your text. Edits blocked by the blacklist are not shown in the filter logs Someguy1221 probably looked at so we cannot see your attempted edit. You can copy text in the edit box to a text editor or the clipboard before trying to save or while making large changes. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:29, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Signature
There was an editor who had a signature with a white border, and a white background. Like, the border was indistinguishable from the background itself. And it had a sort of Windows XP feel (compared to, say, a Windows 98 feel of a signature that looks like it's been made in Paint). And the color wasn't really white either. It was sort of a shiny white and the text was inside the "box". I know I'm not describing it very well, but I'm dying to get the above signature, and I can't remember who had it... So if you remember, or you think you remember, please please post here. 5:40 (talk) 05:03, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Check User:Athaenara/Gallery or ask on her talk page. If you don't find it there or get an answer here, you could (maybe) try asking on Wikipedia talk:Signatures, although that talk page is more properly for discussing the Signatures guideline rather for getting assistance with signatures. Another option is to try hard to remember approximately when you saw this signature, and scroll back through your Web browser's history feature. You should be able to retrace your steps in your browser and revisit the pages you have viewed, at least recently. Try to recall any clues about where you might have seen the signature, or anything else that might connect the signature with its user. Just saying you saw it somewhere isn't much help. You must know more than that. If you can't remember, consider getting Regression Therapy or a Vulcan mind meld although note the medical disclaimer which probably means we can't recommend Vulcan mind melds even if they were not fictional. I only mention that possibility because you said you are dying and that's what Spock tended to do with dying people to squeeze information out of them for dramatic effect. --Teratornis (talk) 18:45, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you Teratornis! One final question, how do I get rid of the space after my signature? Between the border and "40".  5:40 20:04, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I have no idea. As my signature might suggest, I like 'em plain. Maybe someone else will answer. --Teratornis (talk) 21:26, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The big space is created by a double &amp;nbsp; (see nbsp). Removing one of them changes  5:40 to  5:40  . Removing all &amp;nbsp; gives 5:40  . PrimeHunter (talk) 22:24, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Changed. Thank you PrimeHunter, Teratornis.  5:40 22:46, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hm. That's odd. It's messed up again above.  5:40 22:47, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The 22:46 signature looks OK to me. If you refer to the 20:04 signature then old signatures are not updated when you change your signature. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:26, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * There's no line at the bottom of the box though. Or is it just my computer that's not displaying it?  5:40 20:24, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * (outdent) I see a line at the bottom in IE, Firefox, Opera and Google Chrome, but browsers sometimes have display problems when parts of a line go higher up or lower down than normal text. With IE8 running in compatibility mode I see no line to the right of the box when there is a single &amp;nbsp;. I see the line in the original signature where there were two &amp;nbsp;. Maybe you copied the signature code from a user who had the same experience. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:12, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean. My signature looks fine in Firefox, but messes up in Chrome. Thank you very much for your help. I really appreciate it.  5:40 03:38, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

why don't you put advertisement ?
hello all, I am very happy to find site like wikipedia. I had been always find initial guidance through this site and found much valuable materials of all major/minor subjects. I have heard and also saw on the site that, site need a financial support to maintain the site. As, professional in IT world, I have seen putting advertisement on site can give handsome income to hosted site company, and wikipedia is one of the most hitted site on internet. So, why don't you guys are putting advertisement on site to gain money rather then appealing from users. This is big question of hundreds of users and readers of wikipedia. I guess there must be a strong reason for not doing this. Please tourch some light on this question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.131.103.131 (talk) 05:52, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * See Perennial_proposals for more on this. The basic idea is that Wikipedia is not to be beholden to any interest except the general advancement of knowledge.  Accepting advertising would compromise the basic principles of Wikipedia.  -- Jayron  32  05:55, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Anyone is free to start their own mirror or fork of Wikipedia, put advertisements on it, and donate the proceeds to the Wikimedia Foundation. See mw:Extension:Google Adsense. --Teratornis (talk) 18:25, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Twinkle
Hello, for some reason i cannot use twinkle. I already enabled it on Preferences. And im using Firefox but i dont see the Rollback buttons. What do you think is the matter?-- General  Cheese   08:08, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Firstly; are you using the modern skin? If you are, then you will need to go to Preferences > Library and compatibility gadgets > and tick "Compatibility function".
 * Secondly; are you using an older version of firefox? If you are, then you will again need to go to Special:Preferences > Library and compatibility gadgets > but this time tick "JavaScript Standard Library"
 * Please let us know whether this works or not. Kind regards, SpitfireTally-ho! 11:29, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You are not yet a confirmed user; this requires four days and ten edits. See Twinkle ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 14:06, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I kinda figured that too.-- General  Cheese  22:18, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

What categories are not showed in the lower part of the page?
I want to find categories for all pages, then I use the `categorylinks` table and `page` table. However, I found that the result categories I found are different from what are showed in the webpage. For instance, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_accessibility is showed to be in the category `Computer_accessibility`, but in the table it is in two categories `Computer_accessibility` and `Spoken_articles`. So where can I found whether a category is showed below the web page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.46.92.16 (talk) 09:11, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Not sure if I quite understand your question, but it appears that you want to be able to view hidden categories. These are normally categories that relate to the project itself, for example, maintenance categories such as CAT:CLEANUP are normally hidden. To show these categories on the page you will need to create an account, which is quick and requires no personal information beyond a user name and password, see: Special:CreateAccount. Once you're logged in you will need to go to Special:Preferences, click on the appearance tab, scroll down to the Advanced options section, and tick Show Hidden Categories, then click save and clear your browser cache. You will now be able to view hidden categories on pages. I hope this answers your question, but if not, please say below. Kind regards, SpitfireTally-ho! 11:22, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi, thank you very much. But my problem is that I want to know whether a category is a hidden category, and I want to find a list of them(Hidden categories). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.46.92.19 (talk) 04:13, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hidden categories are in Category:Hidden categories. This is not itself a hidden category so you can see whether a given category is hidden by whether Category:Hidden categories is listed at the bottom of it. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:31, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank you very much. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.46.92.19 (talk) 22:33, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

How to handle information in article that has nothing to do with stated subject
What do you do with information in an article that has nothing to do with the article topic, however is otherwise generally encyclopedic, at least at first glance? Specifically, I'm talking about the last section of the Voting Rights Act. It seems the article seems to veer off onto a tangent regarding a the topic of a constitutional right to vote. Lulaq (talk) 10:23, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I suggest you look at the talk page Talk:Voting Rights Act to see if this has been discussed before. If so, feel free to join in the discussion. If not, it's also worth looking at the page's history to see if there are editing comments that relate to this. But in the end you have the choice of being bold and removing it - but make sure you put a helpful edit comment, and consider starting a topic on the talk page, perhaps including the material you've removed; or else, leave it in the article but start a discussion about it on the Talk page.
 * If you do remove it, it might be worth seeing whether it is duplicated somewhere else, or should be added into a different page. --ColinFine (talk) 13:00, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * See WP:SUMMARY which tells how to summarize related material in an article without duplicating detail from another article. What article do you think would be better for the tangential material? You might find such an article by searching Wikipedia with Google. For best results, check the history to identify the contributor of that material, and make sure he or she is part of the discussion to remove or move it. Wiping out another editor's contributions without first engaging that editor directly can sometimes lead to bitter disputes. --Teratornis (talk) 18:30, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism to semi-protected article
Hi,

I do not have a wikipedia account, and thus don't have permissions to revert the blatant vandalism to the article Pig. Could someone who has permission do so?

Thanks, 68.62.219.110 (talk) 18:16, 29 December 2009 (UTC) (Some random guy who's been making anon edits to articles for a while)


 * Thanks for reporting this. I have reverted the vandalism and blocked the user who did it. Theresa Knott &#124; token threats 18:20, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Creating an account is very easy and has several benefits. Being able to edit semi-protected pages (after 4 days and 10 edits) is one of them. You don't have to give your name or email address. See Why create an account? PrimeHunter (talk) 22:16, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Cleaning up
Is it appropriate to delete old messages on my "My Talk" page... Being a new/novice user, I have made a few... well, quite a few mistakes and have some harsh replies and some automatically generated messages...   I have read these comments but I do not see any further reason to keep many of them...  I do not want to do something inappropriate. Thanks very much.

Seamanjg (talk) 20:00, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Users are allowed to remove warnings and other things on their talk page; it's generally understood to mean that they've read them. See this page for more info.  TN X  Man  20:04, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Cited for lack of references
How do I provide references when non exist? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Katmaan (talk • contribs) 20:27, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * All articles on Wikipeda must be verifiable by reliable sources. If no sources exist, then there should not be an article. As an encyclopedia, Wikipedai only publishes content that has already been published and vetted by journalists, writers and various experts. Wikipedai is not meant to be the first publisher of any information. Someguy1221 (talk) 20:39, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * See also the reply at Help desk/Archives/2009 December 21. It sounds like most of Ferdinand A. Brader is original research by you and that doesn't belong in Wikipedia. There are other websites which may welcome your research but Wikipedia has rules against it. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:11, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * This highlights a dilemma of Wikipedia: We're measuring with two different yardsticks. If we were really that interested in having everything referenced, why don't we put as many "citation needed" templates in the article on Thomas More? If that article contains original research, then it creates more damage to Wikipedia than a harmless historical article about a local painter by a well intended hobby historian. Articles like Thomas More get grandfathered in while we put all the burden of work for new articles on new editors, and treat them with utmost suspicion. So far, all Katmaan got for his or her commendable effort were four warning messages, and a brush-off here. No wonder we're losing good editors! &mdash; Sebastian 22:40, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * There are lots of other wikis. See WikiIndex. For example, a city wiki might be a suitable outlet for this type of material. The problem on Wikipedia is not just the complex rules, but our typical failure to direct would-be editors to the most suitable outlets. Just faulting their work and leaving them with no idea what to try next is not ideal. As to sources, check with local historical societies and libraries. Sometimes they have sources which would satisfy Wikipedia's reliability requirement but are obscure and easy to overlook. In general, it is best to start with sources and write Wikipedia articles about them, rather than start with an idea for an article and try to dredge up sources for it. --Teratornis (talk) 01:56, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * You're making a good point: I have indeed seen many instances where it would have helped if we had directed new editors to other wikis, and I have done so myself. But that wasn't my point here. I will resist the temptation to reiterate my point, though, because the Help Desk is not the right venue for that. If anyone would like to pick this up, or lobby for a change of how we deal with such cases, please let me know. &mdash; Sebastian 22:02, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

transclude pages in category
How do you translude the titles of each of the members in a category? Btilm 21:33, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * CategoryTree. .  Intelligent  sium  21:38, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * For example, produces

The italicized titles are pages, and those with [+] next to them are subcategories.  Intelligent  sium  21:41, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Cannot log in
I have successfully created an account and had an email to verify and now every time I try to log in there is a banner that flashes up saying incorrect details or to near to the contributor  - what can I do please?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.105.200.130 (talk) 21:43, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * One of two things are happening:


 * Your account was created, and you are entering your password incorrectly. If you entered a valid e-mail address, enter your username in its box and click "E-mail new password". (Try this step first; this will tell you and us whether the account was actually created or not, as if the account was not created then the software will not send a password.)
 * If you cannot e-mail a password, the username you chose is too close to the username of an existing contributor. Your account was not created, and you need to go through the process again and pick a different username.
 * Xenon54 / talk / 21:49, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * What is the username? Maybe Help:Logging in is of help. Note that usernames and passwords are case sensitive. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:51, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Untitled question
do you have a link listing canadian coins value in us currencymy email is [redacted]


 * Hello. I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our roughly three million articles, and thought that we were directly affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is a help desk for asking questions related to using the encyclopedia. Thus, we have no inside track on the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the left hand side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. You might find what you are looking for in the article about Canadian dollar. If you cannot find the answer there, you can try asking your question at Wikipedia's Reference Desk. They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer just about any question in the universe (except about how to use Wikipedia, which is what this help desk is for). I hope this helps.  Intelligent  sium  23:03, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * There's this website called Google that can help you find information: 1 CAD in USD. Xenon54 / talk / 02:00, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Wiki on the iPhone
Hi! I am making a wiki as a graduate work and would like to make a mobile version to make it easier to view it on the iPhone. Could you please tell me some general things what I need to do and how to modify my wiki to be viewable on the iPhone? Thanks a lot! :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.198.179.209 (talk) 23:19, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You did not identify the wiki software you are using. If you are using MediaWiki, see the results from searching for "mobile" on the MediaWiki site. There seem to be some style sheets and extensions that may help with the iPhone. If you have tried setting up a wiki before, you know it can be far from plug-and-play simple. Hopefully you have good PHP debugging skills. --Teratornis (talk) 01:48, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well someone did tell me they are going to make an iPhone app for wikipedia, but im not sure its true. Keep your eyes peeled on the App Store! Happy Editing,-- General  Cheese  03:11, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

File:Nintendodsbrowserds.jpg
This file is on Commons, but is a derivative work of the Wikipedia logo, which as far as I know cannot be released under a free licence because it is copyrighted. I'm not quite sure how to proceed from here - I'm not sure if deletion at commons is the right way to go here, as it is the Wikipedia logo, but at the same time I know Commons does not accept non-free images.  Intelligent  sium  23:20, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a screenshot of copyrighted software that is tagged as public domain. Isn't that alone grounds for deletion from Commons, regardless of the copyright status of the logo? Xenon54 / talk / 01:52, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The file has been deleted, regardless.  fetch  comms  ☛ 01:55, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

A letter as a Secondary source
Could a published letter be used as a Secondary source for a reference? Example: would this letter to Abraham Lincoln be alright to use that Francis Scott Key was on the ship Minden when he wrote his poem that ultimately became The Star Spangled Banner? Type in "Noyes Lincoln 1863" in the search box of The Library of Congress images American Memory. It is the first letter from William Curtis Noyes. Click on Transcription for the text. I would like to use as a reference in the William Beanes article that Key was on the ship Minden when he wrote his poem. The letter says he was.

Additionally looking at Google Books and typing in "Skinner and Key 1812 Minden" I get also several books that say the same thing. Would these be good sources to use to reference that fact? --Doug Coldwell talk 23:44, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * If Noyes came to learn that Key was on the Minden by researching other writing, the letter is a secondary source. If he knew about Key because he was a witness, then the letter is a primary source. In any case, a fact of this sort does not need a secondary source, a primary source is fine. The issue is whether Noyes is considered reliable. You would have to establish whether Noyes is reliable. It might be easier to cite a book from a well-known publisher. --Jc3s5h (talk) 00:26, 30 December 2009 (UTC)