Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2009 February 20

= February 20 =

Gothic (Film)
I would like to insert the material from a sub-class article, Gothic (film) to the Lord Byron main page under the section related to other media. How would I do this?
 * The general guidelines are WP:MERGE and WP:SUMMARY. Whether you should merge content or merely link to it might be subject to dispute. I notice you did not sign your post. If you are new to Wikipedia, you should approach major edits with caution, as there may be other editors who will disagree with you. It's best to discuss changes on an article's Talk page first, to test the waters a bit before diving in. --Teratornis (talk) 00:44, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Barackberry Sectera Edge
General Dynamics developed the Sectera Edge. L3 had no role in the development of the Sectera Edge.

Are you referencing an article? Sephiroth storm (talk) 00:35, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you refer to the article: Sectéra Secure Module? Can you provide a reliable source to support your claim? --Teratornis (talk) 00:48, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

New double redirect display
Does anyone have a link to a page discussing or announcing the software update that implemented the new double redirect display in the form seen here?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 01:42, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

I believe this is an example of a double redirect that we attempt to avoid. The current revision no longer contains this. Sephiroth storm (talk) 02:05, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The regulars at WP:VPT are more likely to be able to answer this question. Algebraist 02:19, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe. I'll give it a day. There's no hurry. Sephiroth, I'm not sure you grock. Double redirects are to be avoided; the current revision of that redirect is no longer a double redirect because I fixed it as part of requested move cleanup. I was referring to the display, i.e., the visual listing of the doubled nature of the redirection in the format: redirectltr.png]] Name [[File:Arrow east.svg Name, which is new. Formerly, a double redirect did not announce itself in any fashion.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 02:56, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Does this chain together in any fashion? For example, if there were a (God forbid) triple redirect, would this show in the same fashion? I find the new display kinda handy. TN X Man  12:49, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No. It displays double RDs, and navigates through both at once (without mentioning or linking to the intermediate RD), but triple RDs are still not dealt with at all. Algebraist 12:58, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I just tested this as well, and think it would be useful if the same format is used for n-level redirects (i.e. it showed as many as existed). It would certainly help with cleaning up complex redirect-spaghetti!  Richard 0612  13:05, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Found it. Algebraist 13:05, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, Good link. Thank you. The display is very useful and at first I thought it would help me with cleaning up double redirects (I do quite a lot of requested moves), but then I discovered that this is not just a display change but a functional change—double rediretcs no longer break the redirection. In other words, while previously when A → B & B → C, clicking on A took one to B, but now A → C directly, do not pass GO. So the question becomes, is there any utility in fixing double redirects at all in light of that they no longer cause a break in the chain?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 10:56, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Anyone still reading this thread should read WP:VPT. Algebraist 22:03, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

where does at go?
I find myself confused on where to put at when NAC closing SNOW AFDs. Does it go above or below the section header? Like this: result

John Doe
blah, blah

... or like this?

John Doe
result

blah, blah

flaminglawyer 04:26, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * According to Deletion process, it should go above the section header. Calvin 1998 (t·c) 05:01, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

How do I put a photo on a page that I have uploaded to Wiki commons?
How do I put a photo on a page that I have uploaded to Wiki commons? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wtw100 (talk • contribs) 07:55, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi. You can use images in articles that are on Commons the same way you would with an image on Wikipedia: . Help:Image goes more in depth on embedding images. Regards,   Matt  (  Talk  )   08:27, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

How do verify content?
I'm ready to post and I want to know how I do I verify my information. The explanation seems so complicated. You brake it down? Bobbygeeman (talk) 08:07, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I believe the simplest official explanation is given at Help:Footnotes. And if your source is a website, use the http address (see Help:Link for more on that). If you don't get it right, don't worry; Wikipedia is a collaberative project. If you don't get it right, someone else will come along and fix it, and you can look at what they did to figure out what went wrong. That said, I'd recommend reading Your first article, especially #4. Good luck ;-) Someguy1221 (talk) 08:19, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * If your reference is a book, give all the information you'd put in a reference template (author, title, publisher, page number, ISBN, etc) If the code is too complicated don't worry about it. The most important thing is that you add the references. Someone else can format them. - Mgm|(talk) 08:42, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * If this is for a new article, you may wish to start by creating your article as a subpage of your user page (e.g., at User:Bobbygeeman/Sandbox). Put your reference in any which way, and then come back here and ask for help: we can then format the refrence for you and you will then have a worked example. If you intend to add to an existing article, you can put your proposed addition on the articles's talk page or on your own talk page, and again come back here to ask for help. The really important thing is to get the referencin information into the article in some way or other: the exact format can be corrected later. -Arch dude (talk) 14:20, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Images not loading on Wikipedia -- several weeks now.
Hiya. For some reason, when accessing Wikipedia from my computer, images refuse to load. This is only Wikipedia. It is not other websites. It also only seems to be my computer, not others. Does this happen often? I've been using Wikipedia on and off for several years without this problem. It's only been the last couple weeks. 66.53.194.117 (talk) 10:19, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds like your browser settings, depending on the browser there could be various solutions. The one that is common throughout is to clear your cache, but this might not work and it could be a setting problem on yoru browser which as i say ther eis many browser and each has there own settings so i aint listing them.--Andrewcrawford (talk) 10:46, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The most likely explanation is that you have set your browser to block images from Wikipedia. Check your browser's image-blocking preferences and any relevant add-ons. Algebraist 11:20, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Category history
Is there any way to get any history about the former contents of a category (not its edit history)? Such as pages that used to be in it or even when was the last time it had a page in it? --Pascal666 (talk) 11:37, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The only ways I know are trying Google's cache which may have one recent view, or trying Internet Archive for old (at least 6 months) views. I have occasionally tracked down some pages by looking at contributions of editors who added to or edited the category but that takes time and may give nothing useful. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:01, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

IP editor making... weird statements.
This may not be the right place to ask, but I honestly don't know where else to raise this, and it seems... "odd" enough to warrant additional eyes. Just a day or so, I took the knife to an article deleting a lot of stuff, incluing things like this:  "To all ex-students of Townsville Primary School and Chongsan Primary School who wish to join the alumni,please make your way to the school at3 .Ang Mo Kio Ave 10 or email us at " which is pretty.. clearly not encyclopedic. The "reply" came today, with an IP editor telling me this:. Note that that was in article space, not on any kind of talk page. I myself don't feel I am good at talking to newbies who don't understand the basics of wikipedia, so I wonder if anybody else could? Because I feel this might possibly escalate. Dendlai (talk) 14:35, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I have also cleaned up some info and watchlisted the page. If the IP editor persists, I will leave him a note asking him to discuss on the article's talk page. Also, a gentle nudge towards WP:OWN would probably help. TN X Man  14:51, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Conflict of Interest, repeated edits
Sorry if this is covered elsewhere! The page Wiliam Ellis Green. Melbourne Newspaper cartoonist, recently passed away. His page is subject to a repeated edits for Wegart.com.au. This is not the only outlet for the artwork as the edits indicate. I do not have any interest in the other link, just to point out another outlet exists. As such these repeated undo/edits are they vandalism?? Where there are two outlets for the artwork then the External refs/links should this be converted to the Open Data Project? Am sorry if this isn't very clear, am new and want to do the right thing. My edits to this page are deleted am now up to two edits and am conscious of the wiki edit war provisons. Help to set up the ODP link is appreciated Zippomk2 (talk) 14:46, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I would say that the insertion of the link in unessasary parts of the article may be concidered vandalism. I will place a warning on the IP User's talk page, outside of that, I don't believe I can take any further action. I would also suggest that you add some refernces to the article. Sephiroth storm (talk) 21:56, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Signature
I'm trying to change my signature on my preferences page, but all it says is 'Invalid raw signature. Check HTML tags.' The formatting looks like this:  Wikiert' talk sign contribs I don't get how to put 'HTML tags' on it. Wikiert (talk) 16:49, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it's saying that the tags like or are invalid. It's been a while since I've played around with these, but I believe you are using invalid leading tags. Remember, the first instance of a tag should look like this: and the closing instance should look like this: . I think you've replaced some of your leading tags with closing tags. Best, TN X Man  17:11, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I just tried adding your signature into the box in my preferences. Your sig is too long. There can be up to 255 characters in it, and yours has more, because the 'contributions' bit is cut off at 'contri'. I'll think up a new sig. Queenie   Talk  18:54, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You may want to drop the link to your guestbook. You can link to it from your user page and would still allow for links to your user/talk page and contributions list. TN X Man  18:57, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Sound of trumpets please! Here is your new signature: Wikiert  T S C. Copy the code into your preferences; it works, I tried it.  Wikiert  T S C 19:08, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Uh.. shoot. That was me above. Sorry, forgot to take your sig out of my preferences - Facepalm.svg *facepalm* Queenie   Talk  19:12, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, good job! That's a nice looking sig, even if it's not yours. :P TN X Man  19:23, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

thin blue border?
I just created a small page. How do I get rid of the thin, broken blue border, and what makes each paragraph go on horizontally until its end?

Lines starting with a space have special formatting. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:58, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Removing the space at the beginning of the line should do it. -=# Amos E Wolfe talk #=- 18:15, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Creating a Company Page
How can I make a company page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.19.121.227 (talk) 18:11, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You will need to first register an account, which has many benefits, including the ability to create articles. Once you have registered, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Please also review a few of our relevant policies and guidelines which all articles should comport with. As Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, articles must not contain original research, must be written from a neutral point of view, should cite to reliable sources which verify their content and must not contain unsourced, negative content about living people.
 * You will need to first register an account, which has many benefits, including the ability to create articles. Once you have registered, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Please also review a few of our relevant policies and guidelines which all articles should comport with. As Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, articles must not contain original research, must be written from a neutral point of view, should cite to reliable sources which verify their content and must not contain unsourced, negative content about living people.


 * Articles must also demonstrate the notability of the subject. Please see our subject specific guidelines for people, bands and musicians, companies and organizations and web content and note that if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends against you creating the article.


 * If you still think an article is appropriate, see Help:Starting a new page. You might also look at Your first article and How to write a great article for guidance, and please consider taking a tour through the Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation. TN <b style="color:midnightblue; font-size:larger;">X</b> Man  18:58, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * And please also read WP:Spam. – ukexpat (talk) 19:27, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

A tricky move question
In 2007 I created an article on a piece by John Cage, Music of Changes. Up to a few hours ago, I had no idea that a simple search for "music of changes" (something one would use to quickly access the article) now redirects to.. Music Of Changes (note the capital "o"), an article about a compilation of ambient music, created in 2008 by a rarely active user. Now, obviously one of the articles should be moved: not only to avoid confusion, but also every source I can find lists the ambient album as "Music of Changes", not Of. The issue becomes slightly more complicated because the cover of the album says "The Music of Changes", even though everyone lists it without the "The".

Suppose I were to move the album article (a decision based on Google, which generates more hits for Cage: compare and ) to Music of Changes (album) (I'd prefer Ambient 3: Music of Changes, but this would require renaming other articles for Virgin Ambient series). Naturally, I'd mention the new article at Music of Changes, so that people could find it after being redirected to Cage from "music of changes". But what should be done with Music Of Changes? Should it simply be deleted? Or should it be made into a redirect? The latter seems kind of useless, given Wikipedia's automatic redirects. Should both the Cage and the album articles be renamed and Music of Changes made into a disambiguation, given that there are, apparently, a few other things named "Music of Changes" ? Most of them don't seem particularly notable, but I'm no expert on determining notability. And anyway, if Music of Changes is made into a disambiguation, what is to be done with Music Of Changes? And what about the "The" problem, should we comply with the album cover rather than with most websites that list it without the definite article?

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask such questions, but I've never run into a situation like this before, and apparently neither the Administrator's Noticeboard nor the Village Pump are for this sort of thing. I'm quite lost; even with non-tricky moves I always feel nervous that I'll break something, and now I'm completely confused as to what to do. --Jashiin (talk) 18:33, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I have moved "Music Of Changes" to Music of Changes (album), redirected Music Of Changes to Music of Changes, and added a hatnote there. Redirects are cheap and extra redirects on other capitalizations is no problem. There was only one incoming link to Music Of Changes and I retargeted that to Music of Changes (album). PrimeHunter (talk) 14:05, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! I'll try to be bolder in the future when it comes to handling moves and redirects. --Jashiin (talk) 17:06, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Boldness may not be the best idea when it comes to moving pages - if something looks scary, it probably is. There are lots of technical and political things that can go badly wrong when someone moves a page hastily, and require cleanup by an administrator. You did the right thing by discussing it first. PrimeHunter has a lot of experience with these issues. Be sure to study his changes and understand what he did and why. Refer to the links under WP:EIW, for example Hatnote. --Teratornis (talk) 07:17, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

AfD
per this post - but not sure that admin is online at the moment - not sure what (if anything) I should do next. — Ched (talk) 20:35, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It appears the article was the victim of some vandalism. I've reverted the page to the last stable version. However, this has made your AfD template disappear. You can re-add it if you'd like to pursue it or close the AfD discussion. Best, TN <b style="color:midnightblue; font-size:larger;">X</b> Man  20:44, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, I have requested temporary semi-protection. The amount of IP vandalism to that page is absurd. TN <b style="color:midnightblue; font-size:larger;">X</b> Man  20:46, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * (ec)::Thanks there Tnxman, just dropped a note on your talk page about the help. Naaa ... I'm not one for adding delete tags to anything but pure nonsense or attacks. — Ched (talk) 20:48, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * good move - I hadn't thought that far ahead yet - still operating at a slow and methodical rate at this point. — Ched (talk) 20:50, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Wrapping text
I'm working on my first page in a sub page of my user page, so I can learn some of the techniques before actually posting the page public. Afer writing an itro graph and saving it, the text did not show in paragraph form but rather in a long continuous line that stretched way off the page. How do I correct that?

Hobig Hobig (talk) 20:56, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * See the above section entitled "Thin blue border". If you have a leading space, your text ends up the way you described. I've fixed it on your page. TN <b style="color:midnightblue; font-size:larger;">X</b> Man  21:02, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hobig, did you mean to create the article on a subpage, or out in the article namespace? Queenie   Talk  21:05, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * (after) thanks Ukexpat, I had an edit conflict with you, trying to fix that link. Queenie   Talk  21:19, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

rollback links
Is there a way to make the rollback links on the watchlist disappear? — <span style="border:1px solid #20406F;padding:1px 3px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;"> Aitias  // discussion 21:25, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe this link should be of assistance. TN <b style="color:midnightblue; font-size:larger;">X</b> Man  21:30, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * do I just copy those 2 scripts to my monobook file? — Ched (talk) 21:37, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe so. Just add it in and reload the page (bypass your cache if necessary). TN <b style="color:midnightblue; font-size:larger;">X</b> Man  21:42, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * @Tnxman307: Thanks! :) — <span style="border:1px solid #20406F;padding:1px 3px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;"> Aitias  // discussion 21:44, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * @Ched Davis: You have to add it to User:Ched Davis/monobook.css. — <span style="border:1px solid #20406F;padding:1px 3px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;"> Aitias  // discussion 21:44, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * @all .. Thanks — Ched (talk) 22:30, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Table help
Hello all. I've been adding content to List of Halo media, and I suddenly realized that some of the tables don't properly render. The right table border for the 'notes' section is there on the video games section, for example, but not for any of the tables in the "Printed media" section, for example. Anyone take a looksee at the code and find out what's wrong? -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 23:52, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I took a stab. Some tables had three columns, but some of the rows specified a colspan of 5. The tables actually rendered fine for me in both Firefox 3 and IE7, but I could see how a browser could be confused by the over-reaching column span. — TKD:: Talk  03:43, 21 February 2009 (UTC)