Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2009 October 10

= October 10 =

Untrustworthy links on Wikipedia
When I suspect that a link on Wikipedia may be dangerous to access, what are the appropriate steps to take?

The specific case that brings this up is linked from the following page: Reference desk/Humanities

I use a program called Web of Trust where people report feedback to a web page. Enough people reported the link mentioned to assume that the website is untrustworthy in terms of privacy, vendor reliability, and to a lesser degree, child safety. I took the action of adding a comment directly below the link and changing the link text to "read the comment below before accessing" but I don't know what Wikipedia's official policy is regarding such things. Also, I have been noticing some sketchy references using WoT; how do I respond to those?

Thanks,

Falconus p t   c 01:08, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * But, what does that actually mean? What specific harm is alleged to come from visiting that website? Someguy1221 (talk) 02:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Nobody commented specifically, which is why I just added the caution statement rather than deleted it... However, if there is a website that is without question putting anybody who accesses it at risk, what is the Wiki policy for that?  Thanks, Falconus p  t   c 02:46, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know if Wikipedia poilcy addresses such a site, but my recommendation is this: REMOVE IT. But you should have logical evidence and reason to do so, or you may be deleting a link that can be helpful.--LastLived (talk) 04:30, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

The 'G5'
Hello. I have concerns about the way in which wikipedia seems to be promoting an "unofficial group" of British universities called the G5 (British universities). I have been in academia for over 20 years, and have indeed worked at one of the universities in question, however I had never come across the "G5" until I stumbled across it wikipedia. The term seems to have been coined by a solitary publication, that being The Times Higher Education Supplement, and beyond that I can barely find any other reference to it. On that basis I do not believe that this unofficial group of universities warrants such an extensive encyclopaedic article, if any article at all. Moreover someone has created a template for the G5, which can be found at the bottom of for example University of Oxford, alongside legitimate groups of universities such as the Russell Group, which I believe to be potentially misleading. In short I believe that the promotion of the "G5" in this encyclopaedia is bordering upon the self-promotional.80.47.189.235 (talk) 03:16, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe it'd be better for Wikipedian information if the article noted the "G5" was an unofficial name. What do you think about that? --LastLived (talk) 04:17, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I did a short look at the article and it looks like it has some major problems. It does cite a lot of sources but the ones I looked at either don't mention the G5 by name or are not considered reliable sources. The usual procedure here is to add the appropriate cleanup template (see WP:TC) but that may not be enough in this case.--RDBury (talk) 12:13, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I added cleanup tags and it looks like someone else nominated the article for deletion.--RDBury (talk) 12:49, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Nominated finance articles
i duno what im talking about

^^and neither does wikipedia 142.176.13.22 (talk) 21:59, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Images in Spanish Wikipedia
A friend has just posted a translation of an English WP article into the Spanish Wikipedia. I'm very familiar with the article, but I neither speak nor read Spanish. Her native language is Spanish, and she speaks good English. She's a total newbie at WP, so I guided her as she uploaded the translated article. Between the two of us, we did a pretty good job.

The English article has several images, created by me and released to the public domain, then posted to the Commons. They include English labels within the images. I have Spanish versions of these images, using Spanish labels provided by her. The question is: How do we upload them? If I upload them to the Commons, does the Spanish Wikipedia have access to them? If we must upload them to the Spanish WP, I can do it, or she can. If I do it, I probably need a user name over there. If SHE does it, we might run into copyright questions unless we handle the public domain stuff correctly. But she's no copyright expert, and I've seen how thorny copyright problems can be.

What the heck should we do? Lou Sander (talk) 04:19, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd recommend your friend do the editing. As for copyright, I doubt you'll get into any legal problems. The article seems to be consistent with the Wikimedia's/WP Terms of Use. Under the uniform copyright laws, you are free to use text from another source if the purpose isn't for commercial reasons. But I'm not a copyright attorney, so I don't know much other than that.--LastLived (talk) 04:24, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The text is fine. I'm wondering about the images. Specifically, can they go into the Commons and still be available to the Spanish WP? Lou Sander (talk) 04:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes. Files on commons can be used in all wikimedia projects. However, if you made the image, you should upload it and not your friend. ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 04:48, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The images are already on Commons, right? If so, there is nothing to upload. Reference them with the same filename as on English Wikipedia, but use Archivo for the namespace instead of File. For example you could reference File:USSBache470.jpg on Spanish Wikipedia as Archivo:USSBache470.jpg Maybe add a Spanish description to the file description page. —teb728 t c 06:53, 10 October 2009 (UTC) Oops, I missed on first reading that the images needed translation. —teb728 t c 10:41, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I haven't seen the images but in general you should avoid putting text in them for this very reason. Text that does not usually need to be translated (e.g. names) is usually ok. If you absolutely need to label things you might consider using letters and have a legend with what the letters mean in the caption. This may not appear as professional looking as it could be but you avoid having the same picture repeated for every language.--RDBury (talk) 11:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * This is good stuff! The struck-out material above is really my key--I, the creator of the images, will upload the Spanish versions to the Commons. My Spanish-speaking friend will put them into her article using "archivo" rather than "file." Now I have another question: What are the Spanish versions of "thumb," "center" (and "left" and "right"), and "px," as used in this image:


 * In English, the image is put into the article with [[Image:AHPHierarchy1.png|thumb|center|400px|My Spanish caption will go here.]] (This image doesn't happen to be in the Commons, but the Spanish ones will be.) Lou Sander (talk) 12:36, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Examples of image use I found on Spanish Wikipedia used “thumb” “left” “right” and “px”, and experiment showed that “center” works too. I tried adding one of your images with this edit. (Have your friend fix any errors in Google’s translation of the caption.) —teb728 t c 07:16, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks to everyone for all the help! I think we are ready to put the rest of our images into the Spanish Wikipedia. The whole article needs to be Wikified, but I'll have to leave that to people who speak Spanish and know about the Spanish Wikipedia. Lou Sander (talk) 11:14, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

How to create company profile?
I have seen to many companies with detail profile, and try to add my company but could not find any thing. its a Big financial company and i want to add it. tell me how can i add it here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Charactereducation (talk • contribs) 05:41, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Before creating an article, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Please also review a few of our relevant policies and guidelines with which all articles should comply. As Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, articles must not contain original research, must be written from a neutral point of view, should cite reliable sources which verify their content and must not contain unsourced, negative content about living people.


 * Articles must also demonstrate the notability of the subject. Please see our subject specific guidelines for people, bands and musicians, companies and organizations and web content and note that if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends against you creating the article.


 * If you still think an article is appropriate, see Your first article. You might also look at How to write a great article for guidance, and please consider taking a tour through the Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation. An Article Wizard is available to walk you through creating an article.


 * Since as you say it is your company, I want to emphasise that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, it is not for promotion or advertising. —teb728 t c 07:02, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

red text from??
In Personal computer hardware, I can't see the source of the red text error in the external link.Mjpresson (talk) 06:11, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * From this edit, I reverted it. —teb728 t c 06:43, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

DMCA template problem
I've managed to get DMCA (dated maintenance category) working for Category:unreviewed new articles (via new unreviewed article). But I can't seem to get it to work for Category:Userspace drafts created via the Article Wizard (via userspace draft). Can anyone figure out what I'm missing? Thanks! Rd232 talk 12:32, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * In the documentation for the template it says "The parameter onlyarticles is used for template design, restricting the function of this template to article namespace..." Maybe you can create an equivalent template for use in userspace using the same code but without the noarticles restriction?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:13, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. At Template talk:Dated maintenance category it said that "[the] parameter onlyarticles... if set to "yes", prevents categorisation in non-article space." I'm a bit lost here, but unlike where the parameter for noarticles appears hardcoded, in Dated maintenance category, there appears to be a parser function that you can access to set noarticles to no. The documentation says bugger all about it and contains the same note about the template not being able to be used outside of the mainspace, but it may never have been tailored to advise of the ability.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:28, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I think I see: DMCA refers to DMC, with articlesonly hardcoded to yes. I've tried to switching to DMC, with articlesonly set to no, but it still doesn't seem to work. Rd232 talk 13:42, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I just purged your template draft. It sometimes takes a while for changes to propagate. If that doesn't do it, I'm at a loss.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 14:08, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, and there seem to be lags at the moment... But it doesn't look like it's working. Rd232 talk 14:11, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Seems to be working now! :) Rd232 talk 21:43, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

How can I HEAVILY edit my article without it being seen as vandalism?
Hello,

I am a new user and recently authored the article "Richard Ringer". As you can see this article has been nominated for deletion. It said that I can edit the article to make it acceptable- so I have gone about HEAVILY deleting large portions of non-verified material. But my edits to my OWN article have been seen as vandalism by some clubot thing because I deleted 7797 characters in one edit. I did put "Deleting non-verified Material" in the explanation box, and assumed since it was the article I authored this would be acceptable. Please- how can I edit my article?

IMS —Preceding unsigned comment added by Independent Music Source (talk • contribs)

I've reverted to your last version - cluebot does that sometimes but if you revert it should be ok. --Cameron Scott (talk) 13:07, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * See User:ClueBot. ClueBot is a bot and will not fight you if you revert it. The warning had a harsh tone because it could see you had been warned before. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:14, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Also note that ClueBot cannot block users. A human administrator would be able to see that it was not vandalism and would not block you. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:17, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Chasing WP links
Hi, I've been trying to chase WP links, with mixed success. For example, if I start at Bay of Pigs Invasion, then go to What Links Here, I get articles in which I can find no such link. One example is USS Swordfish (SSN-579), a fairly short article that has no visible links to Bay of Pigs Invasion or any of its redirects, even if I go into Edit mode. Any generalized explanation, please? PeterWD (talk) 14:16, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Note that links in templates are also counted in "what links here". In this instance, the USS Swordfish (SSN-579) article has the Cold War template at the end, which contains a link to Bay of Pigs Invasion. ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 14:21, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that; logically, I assumed that links would only be shown to one level. May I suggest that someone propose that templates or other sub-level pages are excluded from What links here, or at least the ability to unambiguously filter them out.MTIA,PeterWD (talk) 14:47, 10 October 2009 (UTC)(edit correction)PeterWD (talk) 17:03, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorting on Roman Numerals?
I have a sortable table in a page that I am building in my personal area. Two of the columns are currently not sorting right. The first is a date, for which currently the entries are in (M)M/(D)D/YYYY format. I understand that I can get that sorted if either I change it to dd-mm-yyyy format or use the DTS template (DTS is probably better since I may have bare years in the sort). However for another column, I have Roman Numerals running from I to XI and would like to have those properly sorted (I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII,VIII,IX,X,XI) rather than the alphabetical (I,II,III,IV,IX,V,VI,VII,VIII,X,XI). Is the best way to change (example) III to  03 III  (I figure that I need 03 since with the roman numerals on the end, it won't be a numeric column) Naraht (talk) 15:29, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * You can also use sort; see Help:Sorting. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 15:58, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You can can also use --  SPhilbrick  T  02:50, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Corrections to an image
Although I went to the discussion page of the image "File:Range of baritone voice marked on keyboard.svg," it told me that the discussion page was not where one should list corrections that should be made to an image. No solution, however, was offered. How can I expreess that an image is in need of corrections? Wolfdog (talk) 16:42, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * File:Range of baritone voice marked on keyboard.svg gives clear instructions about how to contact the author, Commons:User:WarX. Also, the (not yet existing) talk page you evidently viewed:
 * File talk:Range of baritone voice marked on keyboard.svg
 * on the English Wikipedia, is not really associated with the image, which is actually on Commons. Thus the real talk page is:
 * Commons:File talk:Range of baritone voice marked on keyboard.svg
 * but it does not exist yet either, and I'd be surprised if anyone who could edit the image is likely to look at it soon. Your best bet is to contact the image author. --Teratornis (talk) 18:09, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You might also post at the graphics lab requesting one of the editors there make the edits, if you can explain well how to correct the image. Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:39, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Spurious category generated by example in template documentation
The template Infobox England and Wales civil parish contains an example in its documentation page that generates the category Civil parishes in Essex. This causes both the template and the doc to spuriously appear within the category. Short of removing the example is there any way of stopping this from happenning? Jan 1 naD - (talk) 19:56, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I suppose we could edit the template itself to include a parse that would make non-article pages not be categorized, but as I've just recently broken a high-use template, I don't particularly fancy that method. You could start a discussion on the relevant talk page, if you really have a problem with it. This issue is pretty minor, though, so there's not really much urgency in such a request.  Intelligent  sium  review 22:18, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. The reason for my question was that, as I've only scratched the wiki-surface so far, for all I know there was some way of controlling this outside the template. Oh well. Jan 1 naD  - (talk) 22:35, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I've made the appropriate change to the template, using namespace detect so that only mainspace pages are added to categories. Everything seems to be in order, but let me know if there are any issues. Regards,  Doktor  Mandrake  23:38, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Braxton Bragg
Hello my name is alyssa bragg i now this is not the right site to find out the kind of information i want to find out but maybe i can get some kind of help, im related to braxton bragg so anyway this is my question how can i find out how im related to braxton bragg? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abragg90 (talk • contribs) 21:12, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hello. I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our roughly three million articles, and thought that we were directly affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is a help desk for asking questions related to using the encyclopedia. Thus, we have no inside track on the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the left hand side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck.  Intelligent  sium  review 21:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You would be right that this is not the type of website to find out that type of information. Ancestry information is usually only available at for-pay sites, for example Ancestry.com. Best of luck. Xenon54 / talk / 23:36, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Hogganfield - UK Infobox place snafu
The UK Infobox place template on Hogganfield is very unwell. I cannot spot the cause & most move on. If someone could fix it, that would be excellent; thanks. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:17, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * ✅ Here.  Doktor Mandrake  21:29, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Much obliged. You have sharp eyes, herr Doktor. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:19, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

IPA tone
How do you add IPA suprasegmentals in a Wikipedia article? In particular, I need to know how to place tone markings on vowels for a language article. --seberle (talk) 23:27, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Below the "save page" button, there should be a bar that you can click to insert symbols such as "Ā Á À Â Ä..." etc. Is this what you're asking?  Intelligent  sium  review 23:58, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * File:Ipa-chart-suprasegmentals.png shows some possibilities. I notice that the editing bar below the "Save page" button has a drop-down list, and one option is "IPA". That shows a bunch of odd characters, but I don't see all the suprasegmentals. One possibility might be to look at Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:IPA for instances of the IPA template, and copy and paste from words with similar IPA pronunciations. See also WP:IPA and the various language-specific pages such as IPA for Irish. --Teratornis (talk) 01:54, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks everyone. I use the IPA bar at the bottom, but there are only a few suprasegmentals available. My biggest problem is writing nasal vowels and writing the rising tone. I had, in fact, been occasionally resorting to grabbing codes from other pages, but this is very time consuming and doesn't always work. Some pages use unusual coding involving two codes which I do not understand and does not copy correctly. Recently I have just been using the appropriate Unicode characters (cut and pasted from MS Word) like this: [ǎ], instead of Wikipedia's IPA bar, and that seems to be working. Any reason I shouldn't be doing this?--seberle (talk) 22:38, 11 October 2009 (UTC)