Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2009 September 20

= September 20 =

Clipping a video part 2
--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 13:18, 20 September 2009 (UTC) On September 14, I asked for assistance in clipping a video (See Help_desk/Archives/2009_September_14). This is because at Featured article candidates/Crown Fountain/archive4, we have been instructed to cut the main image (File:Crown fountain spouting.ogg), which is a 50 second video, down to 10 seconds. The FAC now has three supports and seems destined to be promoted if I can get some assistance clipping the video or figure out how to do it myself. My co-author, thought he would be able to clip the video last week, but has been unable to do so. had thought he would be able to do so by 0:00 UTC (about 4 hours ago) but has not done so. I have contacted a lot of people who do work with .ogg files, but mentioned that there are multiple formats and that he does not have experience with the video format. It seems that very few people have any experience editing these videos. I have attempted to follow the instruction at Commons:Help:Converting video that pointed me to in the prior help desk request. However, I am having difficulty and it appears that we are going to have to remove the video altogether and replace it with still imagery. More specifically, I have downloaded ffmpeg2theora-0.24.exe, but it will not install on my computer. I have tried vlc-1.0.1-win32 and mediacoder_8731 installer files and neither seems capable of editing the file. I am at a loss and don't want to revert to images. I am therefore, requesting further assistance if anyone knows how to edit video .ogg files or knows of software that I can download to do so myself that would be great.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:17, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I would suggest cross-posting at WP:RD/C.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 05:24, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The FAC image reviewer has clipped the video him/herself on our behalf.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 13:18, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

need to make an entry
hi there..

i am a new user to wikipedia. i would like to make an entry about myself. my professional background has some notable highlights (author, emmy-award winning coordinating producer, former producer at espn), and i think it's worth having an entry. what's an EASY way to get this done?

thanks,

mike isenberg isenberg31 05:34, 20 September 2009 (UTC)Isenberg31 (talk)


 * See WP:YOURSELF. That, plus other related articles that will be linked off of that one, should answer your questions.  Dismas |(talk) 05:38, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Renaming of an image
Hi I uploaded the image http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:100_2084_(Large).JPG back when I didn't know much about Wikipedia. I want to change the filename to give it more descriptive metadata. However, when I go to upload 'a new version' it does not allow me to enter the destination filename to something new. Any ideas on how to solve this one? Can I delete the original picture and reupload? Thanks. Alamo25 (talk) 11:01, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. Help:Moving a page says : "Pages in the file or category namespace cannot be moved. To change the name of a file, one needs to upload it again, and copy the file description." You can request deletion with Db-author. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:31, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * To move a picture(unlike an article)...you must upload a new copy to the new destination, and then delete the old picture.Smallman12q (talk) 11:57, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Plano, Texas
I have edited the article for Plano, Texas, the town in which I live. I added one of the founding families of Plano, the Haggard Family. I used to work for them as Controller and Tax Director. I added the following and cited three references.

My problem is figuring out how to place the footnotes/references at the bottom in numerical order. When I go to edit the references, it does not list the other reference items so I cannot renumber those, which I believe I am supposed to do? I did this project because I have an extreme respect for the Haggards and wanted to recognize all the great things they have done for Plano. If I was to list just a partial catalogue of the great things they have done for our city, I would have to write a whole aricle.

Can you help me with the references, and tell me if I am on the right track? Thank you, Jeffrey Flowers, Plano, Texas

The text below is my edit for Plano, Texas. "One of the most respected and a well-known families in Plano is the Haggard Family. John Haggard came to Plano in 1856 from Kentucky and became a large landowner. Credited with helping to establish a school on his property, John Haggard and many of his descendents have made significant contributions to Plano. Clifton Haggard, and Rutledge Haggard, his oldest son have both served as school board presidents. 8One part of the Haggard Family is still farming a large spread of land between Parker and the Dallas North Tollway. On one side of this popular route is Owen Haggard, the youngest son of Clifton Haggard, and on the other side Rutledge Haggard farms his land.

The Haggard’s have been instrumental in the development and management of commercial and residential areas throughout Plano and Frisco. In particular, the Haggard’s have been responsible for much of the commercial development in Plano along Central Expressway and the North Dallas Tollway including Willow Bend Market, Tinseltown, and Windhaven Plaza. In addition, the Haggard’s have been involved with developments throughout Plano encompassing both commercial and residential properties and have extensive holdings. They have participated in the development of retail shopping centers, restaurants, land leases, commercial and residential stand-alone properties, condominiums, and apartments. 9

The current generation of leadership for the Haggard Family are Clint Haggard (Rutledge's son) and Toby Haggard. Toby is the son of Owen Haggard, the youngest of Clifton Haggard’s offspring. Both Clint and Toby have extensive experience in real estate development, property management, and financial investments. Clint has gone on to open an upscale restaurant, manage daycares, building and managing real estate holdings, and is building Taco Bueno restaurants in other states. Toby has focused on residential property development, having developed housing additions in Prosper, Texas, and managing the extensive other real estate holdings for the Haggard Family. Both are also very involved in various social and civic organizations in Plano.
 * References should be placed in between tags along with the text they support. This makes a small number (e.g. [1]) where the reference is inserted, and makes the reference appear at the bottom of the page. Various templates, such as cite web, can be inserted between the ref tags and filled in to properly cite a web page, for example. I also spot two mistakes in your text: "descendants" is spelled wrong in the first paragraph, and the three "Haggard's" in the second paragraph should not have apostrophes (they are plural) while the one in the third paragraph is correct (it is possessive). Xenon54 / talk / 13:17, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * There's also a new alternative way to create references, which might be preferable to some people. You can read about it at WP:LDR. In brief, you put a reference with a name in the main body, then the same name and the reference details in the reference section at the bottom.-- SPhilbrick  T  16:28, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

✅ refs tidied as citations; mistakes remain. Finavon (talk) 16:32, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Placing boxes
What commands do I need to use to positing things in various places of a page? Say I had a userbox or something and I wanted it to sit centrally, what would I do? Dr Dec ( Talk )    15:29, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * That's pretty vague. There are things like, center, and align=center. There is also the "float" attribute.  hmwith  ☮  16:58, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know, sorry! Take a look at my user page. I want to put something into that big space at the top of the page. Say I wanted to put the service medal in the middle, how would I do that? I've used to put my user boxes on the right, but that only allows align = left and align = right.   Dr Dec  ( Talk )    17:11, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * There are different ways to center different things. To center that image/caption, you can look at the source code of the template.
 * You can change that by simply changing "left" to "center". Or, for simpler code, you can just use:
 * I hope this helps,  hmwith  ☮ 18:34, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the advice, but I'm more confused now than I ever was! How do I get at the source code?!  Dr Dec  ( Talk )    18:40, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, okay, I see what you mean. But what about general objects. What about the Huggle/Twinkle userbox on my page? That is made up of two images and some text. So I would need to re-write the whole template to get it to centre. Why can't I just write something like .......... and whatever is in the "..........." will be centralised? As it stands the ".........." can't be replaced by a template.  Dr Dec  ( Talk )    18:47, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the advice, but I'm more confused now than I ever was! How do I get at the source code?!  Dr Dec  ( Talk )    18:40, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, okay, I see what you mean. But what about general objects. What about the Huggle/Twinkle userbox on my page? That is made up of two images and some text. So I would need to re-write the whole template to get it to centre. Why can't I just write something like .......... and whatever is in the "..........." will be centralised? As it stands the ".........." can't be replaced by a template.  Dr Dec  ( Talk )    18:47, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

size of wortley
what is the size in square miles of wortley leeds ls12 england? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.200.189.243 (talk • contribs)
 * You might find what you are looking for in the article about Wortley, West Yorkshire. If you cannot find the answer there, you can try asking your question at Wikipedia's Reference Desk. They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer just about any question in the universe (except about how to use Wikipedia, which is what this help desk is for). I hope this helps.  hmwith  ☮  16:48, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Maestro
Is there any consensus on the proper use of the word maestro. It seems to me that it is rather POV in most situations. Copana2002 (talk) 16:57, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I understand your question. Could you give an example as to how the word is used in a non-NPOV situation? Xenon54 / talk / 17:04, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * For example if someone called Toscanini a maestro would that be acceptable? I often see articles where someone is listed as a tabla maestro (ex. Kumar Bose) or a violin maestro and I was unsure if that was considered POV on Wikipedia. I'm pretty sure saying something like painting maestro would be POV since maestro is primarily a musical term, but as for actual musicians and composers I am not sure. Copana2002 (talk) 17:17, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that would be an issue for the talk pages of the individual articles, then. As far as I know, "maestro" is completely subjective, something that doesn't work well with Wikipedia. I think it would be best to not use the term at all, unless it's used in an outside source to describe the person. Xenon54 / talk / 17:23, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh, heh. dictionary.com actually uses Toscanini in its example of a maestro.  99.166.95.142 (talk) 16:25, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Time
I was using Eng-GB as a language option but realised that I didn't have access to many tools. I've changed back to default English. But the times on edit histories and watchlists have gone from 24hr clock to 12hr clock. Much worse, they don't say 6:30pm, but 06:30. This is causing me a lot of confusion because to me wx:yz is the 24hr clock, so 06:30 = 6:30am! How can I get my times displayed in the 24hr clock format? Dr Dec ( Talk )    17:15, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think Wikipedia has an option for 12 hour time. Indeed, the Date and time section at Special:Preferences deals with different date formats and your time zone, but there is no option for 12/24 hours. No matter what the date format, if you see a time of 06:30 on Wikipedia, you should always assume it's in the morning. Xenon54 / talk / 17:21, 20 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Reading what you've just said, am I right to assume that you made your post at 7:21am? Take a look at my screen shot...  Dr Dec  ( Talk )    18:32, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It sounds like your time zone settings are screwed up. Times in page histories are displayed in your local time as set in Special:Preferences. I made the post at 17:21 UTC, 13:21 EDT (my local time, UTC-4). Your time zone is probably set in your preferences as UTC+14, where it was 07:21 on Monday when I made that post. Xenon54 / talk / 18:51, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Immunocal Page Deleted, What is needed to re-submit?
Hello;

I see that a page for Immunocal was deleted in 2006 for the following reason:

"The result was delete; its existence may be verified, but there is no verification from third-party sources that this is a notable product. --Sam Blanning(talk) 22:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)"

On Samuel Blanning's talk page, it says that he is no longer editing on Wikipedia and will not respond to the posts.

I wasn't able to figure out how to view the actual page that was submitted, but would like to know what verification from third-party sources would be required to make this a notable product. I would like to consider re-submitting a new page, but need to know what is required as third-party sources, and what is not accepted. Immunotec's own website according to what I read is not being accepted as a source of information. Is this correct?

I have read over the guidelines for source material, and it looks like the following may be considered acceptable third-party sources. Is this correct? And would this be enough to submit a page?

There are references to Immunocal in the following publications:

United States Physician's Desk Reference ( 1999-2009) Canadian Compendium of Pharmaceuticals and Specialties (2009) Oxidative Stress in Cancer, AIDS, and Neurodegenerative Diseases, Copyright 1998 by Dr. Luc Montagnier, Winner of Nobel Prize in Medicine, 2008

Also on the following websites:

www.pubmed.gov - Nathional Institutes of Health sponsored website of published medical studies www.fda.gov - Food and Drug Administration www.patft.uspto.gov US Patent Office

Would this be a sufficient source of information to start a page? If there is someone who can point me to the original page and tell me what is needed to be changed for re-consideration, that would be a great place to start and I would like to re-submit.

I would like to cite immunotec.com and immunocal.com as additional sources for company and product specifics if this is allowed, but would be supplemental to the above.

Incidentally, I chose two names at random, and found a page for MonaVie which has 1 published study on PubMed ( Immunocal has 27; 11 by name and the rest by the term undenatured whey protein), and a page for XanGo which has no published studies on PubMed. So how is it determined that a company or product deserves a page? And which should come first, Immunotec the company that makes Immunocal, or Immunocal itself? The published research on Immunocal goes back over 30 years, something that these companies don't come even close to.

I would be very happy to assist in re-submitting new information if I know what is required.

Thanks in advance for all of your help.

Sincerely, LivingWell4U (talk) 17:27, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * In order to be included in Wikipedia, a subject needs to do more than simply exist. The (non-biased, verifiable) article needs to prove the subject is notable by citing facts that are published in reliable sources that are not directly related to the subject. That was the problem with the old article - it didn't say how the product was notable. The most common example of reliable sources are news stories and the like. Press releases and company info are not considered reliable and will not establish notability because they are probably biased. Additionally, Wikipedia is not a place to advertise a product. Xenon54 / talk / 17:37, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, Xenon54. So are the sources I listed above, minus the company website, suitable?

Also can you please help me to find the original article, and would it be best to edit this one or make a new one?

I understand that Wikipedia is the place for factual information and that will be the focus of the article.

Thanks again for your help.

LivingWell4U (talk) 17:58, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the sources your provided would again only prove that the product actually exists. They sound like general reference books and websites. What we need is a source or two that establishes notability - that answers the question, "Why is this important enough to be in Wikipedia". I don't know if medical studies are good enough to establish notability. As I said, the most common example are news stories (search Google News) and magazine articles about the subject, but a medical journal might also apply in this situation.
 * Deleted pages are only accessible to administrators, who can restore the page to your userspace ("userify") upon request, but I don't think that can happen here because it was initially deleted as a result of an Articles for deletion discussion. So you're looking at restarting the article from scratch. I suggest starting it as a subpage at User:LivingWell4U/Immunocal (click to create). Xenon54 / talk / 18:41, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, Xenon54. I have received a message and welcome on my talk page that outlines how to get started and receive help from Wikipedia as a result of this post, and this has been very helpful. One of the options is to request adoption, and I think this would be a good fit for me. I have requested to be adopted through this program. If adopted, I will discuss your helpful recommendations with him.

Thanks again for your help and have a great day.

Sincerely, LivingWell4U (talk) 18:56, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * An admin has userfied the former article as User:LivingWell4U/Immunocal. Before any new article is restored to main space, it should address the notability concerns expressed in 2006 at Articles for deletion/Immunocal. EdJohnston (talk) 23:58, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Userpage archives
Hi,

I set up my talkpage to archive some time ago, and it does, but my talk page only shows one archive, where as this: shows all of them. How do I get it to show decently? I looked at the WP:Archives page, but I hesitate to mess something up, and the bot stops archiving correctly. Sephiroth storm (talk) 20:34, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You need to use Template:Archive box. If you read the documentation for Template:Talkheader, you'll see that it only displays archives if they are in the standard format, namely "Archive 42" or whatnot.  You have yours set differently, hence talkheader will not work.  You can toggle it so that it won't display that one erroneous link. ~ Amory  (user • talk • contribs) 20:53, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * grr. I even tried coping the code from another editor using the correct format, and it still displays incorrectly. Sephiroth storm (talk) 21:19, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You should look at the examples given on Template:Archive box - those will show you what you're doing wrong. Look at User talk:Derek Ross or User talk:Atlan for correct examples.  Specifically, you need to manually list the link for each one within the Archive box template since it cannot predict how you have decided to name them. ~ Amory  (user • talk • contribs) 01:38, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought I might have to. ugh. Thanks though! Sephiroth storm (talk) 03:04, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Chak Budho
Chak Budho is a famous village of Union Council Malka Teh. Kharian Distt. Gujrat.It is approximately 8KM away from the Kharian City.The main and only cast of village is Chib Rajput. The founder of village Raja Sher Khan.Famous personalties of village are Raja Fazal Dad,Raja Sardar Khan,Capt.Rehmat Khan,Raja Ajaib Khan,Chief Warrant Officer Raja Gulzar Hussain,Raja Gul Nawaz (Headmaster),Raja Amanat Ali,Raja Waris Khan,Raja Akhtar Pehlwan(councler),Raja Safdar.In young generation Raja Farrukh Nawaz,Raja Tabbasam Nawaz Abbas,Raja Zahid Hussain,Raja Shahid Hussain,Raja Mujahid Ibrar,Raja Atif Gulzar,Raja Kashif Gulzar,Raja Ayyub Safdar,Raja Qayyum Safdar,Raja Farooq Safdar,Raja Mubbashar Nawaz(Eng.).Most of young men are setteld in Europe.Cricket and VolleyBall are favourits games of the Village.The populations of Village is approximately 3000 persons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mna77 (talk • contribs) 21:26, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Is there you something you want to accomplish with this post? Xenon54 / talk / 21:29, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * As there is an article created (Chak Budho) I'm assuming you worked out what to do! --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 06:36, 21 September 2009 (UTC)