Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2009 September 22

= September 22 =

Ongoing bias
How do I make an appeal to have a page deleted permanently? The site Kenja Communication has, over a number of years, been bombarded with extreme negative bias. It has become a reference resource for people seeking to discredit the organisation -'Look them up on Wikipedia' and whenever the information is corrected (only ever in part, as there simply aren't the resources to rebutt every false addition) they are attacked for being 'pro-Kenja' - when in truth, that has meant only 'anti-Kenja' editors are allowed to contribute. The page is now so chock full of mis-information and bias, it is impossible to repair. Mitigation has been sought previously and it made things marginally better for a short time but the bombers are back in force now, and the unfortunate thing (good from your perspective, I am sure) is that Wikipedia is regarded as an absolute truth by many public - even when you put an 'article in dispute' banner at the top. Apparently the antagonists just say "Yeah - that's because they don't like what we're saying." It's a no-win situation.
 * Wikipedia keeps a permanent record of all pages that exist and have ever existed (since around ~2003, I believe?). Neither deletion nor even oversight can actually permanently remove a page. That said, alternative options are:


 * Page protection


 * Identify users/IPs that cause the problem and block them


 * The Content Noticeboard


 * The Bias Noticeboard

-- Intelligent  sium  00:42, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe what you want is called "salting". See WP:SALT. However, that guidelines doesn't identify how to make the request. It requires an admin, so maybe Administrators' noticeboard. Sorry I don't have a more definitive answer. (My link is part of the Page proteection linked above, but the administrators page protection Requests for page protection either doesn't list it, or my reading skills have weakened. -- SPhilbrick  T  01:12, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Although it has been deleted twice, Kenja Communications is not a candidate for “salting.” It was deleted the first time because it had no content, and the second time because it was a copyright violation. Neither of those is a problem with the current incarnation.
 * I think the OP is asking about ordinary deletion. In general the way to delete an article is to nominate it at Articles for deletion. Under this circumstance, however, the result of an AfD nomination would result in the article being kept on the ground that in principle the article problems could be resolved.
 * So Intelligentsium’s list of alternate options is the real answer. —teb728 t c 02:37, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * After looking at the aritcle I see no reason to delete it with so many reliable sources. At first, merging it with the founders seemed possible but sources discuss the organization so it makes sense to keep. The article needs clean up to meet quality standards but it is labeled as a cult by reliable sources so it will more than likely won't be read with a happy face.08:06, 22 September 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cptnono (talk • contribs)
 * For the record, salting is requested at WP:RPP. ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 08:10, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks Chamal. Although it doesn't appear to be the relevant issue in this case, the reason I asked is beause I looked at that page WP:RPP, and it said: "This page is for requesting that a page, image or template be fully protected, semi-protected, move-protected or unprotected." However, the list in WP:PP has "Creation Protection" which is not in the list of items in the instructions, so I thought it might be a different process. -- SPhilbrick  T  12:08, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

How do I debate an assertion?
Under the Pacific Crest Trail, there is a link to "The largest collection of PCT photos".

Well, I have more photos of the PCT in the collection I maintain on behalf of the Pacific Crest Trail Association. And the USDA Forest Service probably has more photos of the PCT than the 7,500 in the self-proclaimed "..largest collection.." Can the link be changed to read "The largest collection of publicly posted PCT Photos"?


 * I have removed the largest claim and a second link added in the same edit  by User:Purebound who probably  broke External links. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:02, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

1998 Ford Explorer Petrol Injectors over fueling
Could anyone give me information on why my 1998 Ford Explorer (Import) petrol injectors are over fueling? Desparate any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you

Val —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.132.102.151 (talk)


 * Have you tried the Science section of Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in answering knowledge questions there; this help desk is only for questions about using Wikipedia. For your convenience, here is the link to post a question there: click here. I hope this helps. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:09, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Or maybe ask a mechanic? – ukexpat (talk) 14:46, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Ingersoll Rand
Dear Sir or Madam,

I tried to change the headquater on Ingersoll Rands article since it moved it from Bermudas to Ireland. It was the first time I did it. I must have changed the formats - it looks wrong now. The site is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingersoll_rand.

I read after that I was supposed to use the sandbox. I appologize for any inconvenience caused. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.159.185.194 (talk • contribs)


 * Fixed by Gonzonoir. No problem. BencherliteTalk 12:18, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem, it's only natural to make small mistakes, thank you for alerting us to it, Gonzonoir has fixed the error, you just forgot to close the link to Swords, Dublin with two brackets: "]]". Kind regards SpitfireTally-ho! 12:19, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * As everyone's said, easily done :) I fixed it up and added in a couple of references that verify that the move took place - have a look at WP:CITE to find out why this a good idea. Gonzonoir (talk) 12:23, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Question in Georgian
ra iyo pernando magelanis mogzaurobis mizani? rit iyo gamorcheuli es konkretuli mogzauroba da ra kali datova istoriashi? ra sashualebebi,shedegebi da sirtuleebi shexvda pernando magelans am mogzaurobisas?


 * This is the english wikipedia. Please ask your question in english.--Unionhawk Talk E-mail Review 14:18, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Or if you only speak Georgian, you could try at the Georgian language Wikipedia. Gonzonoir (talk) 14:25, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

what is this?
I *think* I have just fixed some vandalism to some form of function on a page - what does this actually do? It seems to do nothing on the page? --Cameron Scott (talk) 14:21, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It is an inter-language link. It adds a link along the side to that language (which, in this case, is Bahasa Melayu).--Unionhawk Talk E-mail Review 14:23, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * And, yes, you did the right thing. The current link is correct.--Unionhawk Talk E-mail Review 14:25, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

editing table on a page
There is a table i want to add to on page but i can't figure out how to do it?

Could it be an image that the creator of the page added? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.4.27.122 (talk • contribs) 14:48, 22 September 2009


 * Please tell us which page it's on, and then we can try to help. --AndrewHowse (talk) 15:24, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

my ip
Aah no. I may have compromised my security by admitting my ip in my most recent edit. Is there anything a mod can do to change this? Bouncingmolar (talk) 15:36, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * See Requests for oversight-- SPhilbrick  T  15:39, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Bouncingmolar (talk) 15:48, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * NP I see that it is already done.-- SPhilbrick  T  15:52, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Can Businesses create an Article?
I was wondering if a business is permitted to have articles about themselves on this site?
 * Sorry, but it is strongly discouraged. See WP:COI.-- SPhilbrick  T  16:08, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You can suggest that an article be created here: Requested articles, however, there is quite a backlog.-- SPhilbrick  T  16:10, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Please read WP:BFAQ and let us know if you have any more questions not answered there. It covers alternative outlets and so on. --Teratornis (talk) 16:19, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Is this user wasting server space?
I recently came accross the userpage of this chap calling himself Christopher Chandler, 5th Duke of Waltham, even though I do not believe that there is such a Duke. He has even gone as far as to upload his own signature which at best seems vain, and at worst seems a crying waste of server space. Should this be allowed? This guy is such a fraud. 80.47.163.42 (talk) 16:11, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * See WP:USERPAGE. The page User:The Duke of Waltham looks like an attempt at humor to me, but it might waste the time of someone who stumbles into the page, not getting the joke. I would not say this is the most constructive use of a user page I've seen on Wikipedia, but it doesn't look especially disruptive either. The user does not seem to be attacking anybody. If the user isn't serious about editing on Wikipedia, he might be happier on Uncyclopedia which is intended to be a parody of Wikipedia. --Teratornis (talk) 16:38, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, The Duke has racked up a good 7500+ edits, among which "[h]is Grace is also spending time in such trivial janitorial tasks as typographic and grammar correction, link redirecting, article restructuring, wikification, and others." Not bad for a nobleman. decltype (talk) 16:50, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * (e/c) It's a joke, and harmless compared to many other userpages I've seen. He's made over 7000 constructive edits to the encyclopedia; I'm guessing that counts as "serious about editing on Wikipedia".  Since, every time one of us hits "save", we save the entire version of the help desk page (I'm really pretty confident this is right, but I'm open to correction if I'm mistaken), I daresay the three of us have just spent about the same amount of server space discussing this than he has spent creating his user page.  If you're concerned that the overwritten title of his page might confuse someone who somehow didn't realize they were in user space, might I suggest a polite (i.e. no "fraud" namecalling) comment on his user talk page might be an excellent first step?  (it appears you've already done this yesterday, with a different IP address) --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:53, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * In any case, don't worry about server performance. It'll take more than the trifles of the kratocracy to down WP. Gonzonoir (talk) 18:09, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this is no big deal at all. I'm resolving this one.  -- Jayron  32  23:08, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * A bit eccentric and somewhat flamboyant, but a good editor. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 23:53, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * A compromise is to move the joke material to a separate user subpage, so users who go to the user page proper will see something informative and relevant to the Wikipedia project. --Teratornis (talk) 06:39, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I should think His Grace would very much oppose such a change. At the very least, we must make an inquiry to his private secretary before taking any action. Regards, decltype (talk) 07:00, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * It is no joke, and I'm sure His Grace's janatorial work is conducted by His staff. I believe His secretary's name is Cartwright. Tony   (talk)  09:57, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

New Article Listings
Allo Wikipeople... I was wondering if there was a particular section or list containing titles of the latest reference articles contributed to Wikipedia. I realize the article count grows by leaps and bounds on daily basis, but is there a catagorized list available anywhere? Foppy63 (talk) 16:57, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Special:NewPages might be what you're looking for. Ioeth (talk contribs twinkle friendly) 17:00, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

College in Bangladesh
i am a pakistani and want to get admission in medical college in bangladesh now iwant the procedure of admission     abdul haleem      


 * Have you tried Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer just about any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. I hope this helps. – ukexpat (talk) 18:02, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * You may also want to contact the college you wish to apply for - Wikipedia doesn't have the sort of information you're looking for. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 18:27, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Changes Made to an Article by the Artist Manager
I am trying to make changes to an article per the artists permission.

How do I do this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ussee (talk • contribs)


 * You shouldn't. You have much too severe a conflict of interest. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  19:48, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Please leave a message on the talk page of the relevant article explaining the changes that you think should be made, with reliable sources. Other editors will review and make the changes if they comply with Wikipedia policy and guidelines. – ukexpat (talk) 19:57, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Are we allowed to edit an article about our NGO on Wikipedia?
We are a non-profit organization, registered 501 (c) (3) public charity, founded in 2006, that focuses on education of vulnerable adolescent girls in Africa. The founder of our organization is Angelique Kidjo, of who an article on Wikipedia already exists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Batonga Foundation (talk • contribs) 20:14, 22 September 2009
 * Although wikipedia discourages people from editing article when they are directly associated with the subject, we do not disallow it out right, so you may edit the article, but please first read WP:COI and WP:NPOV. Keep in mind that if any of the text that you add is seen as being biased then it may be removed without notice, if one persists in adding such text then you may be blocked from editing wikipedia, however, this is a worst case scenario and hopefully all the edits you make to the page will valid! If you feel that you can edit the article without introducing undue bias, then please do. If I have the time I'll be more than happy to review your edits once you have made them to ensure that they're suitable. Remember that all text must be attributed to a reliable source. If you have any other questions about this please feel free to ask, kindest regards SpitfireTally-ho! 20:25, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * PS: thanks a lot for asking before going ahead and editing the page, it shows a sensible degree of prudence, regards SpitfireTally-ho! 20:29, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Down to the brass and tacks, The Batonga Foundation might meet the requirements for inclusion. A quick google news search shows some coverage and verifiability doesn't seem to be a concern. It looks like it meets WP:GNG and certainly meets WP:ORG. I would really like to see some more news to expand it past a couple paragraphs, though. Alternatively, it could be kept at the Angélique Kidjo with an expanded section and a redirect. I think that as long as it isn't a mirror of the website an infobox and a couple paragraphs might be a good start.Cptnono (talk) 11:49, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Just created it now: The Batonga Foundation, SpitfireTally-ho! 18:44, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Sweet. I am going to fiddle with it and through in a couple secondary sources. I'm a little disapointed since I thought there were more. It looks like the a couple I found last night are duplicates while the others focus on Kidjo or are press releases. Looks like it will be fine, though. Drop me a line on the talk page if you need anything from my end.Cptnono (talk) 01:53, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Title conflict
I was considering writing an article on Mary Chaney the courtroom artist. There is already a hard redirect to Mary Cheney. This is also a minor problem on Courtroom sketch list section. I'd like to find out how to fix this. Mjpresson (talk) 20:22, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, assuming you can show notability and have reliable sources for the article, you should go ahead and do it. Mary Chaney is available and is not at present a redirect. --AndrewHowse (talk) 20:52, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Oops my mistake. I slapped my forehead for you. Mjpresson (talk)
 * I appreciate the diligent follow-through! --AndrewHowse (talk) 20:47, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Cut and paste article (another question)
Jonathan Capehart is cut and pasted word for word from TWP. Not having time to rewrite it, should it be deleted? Should I at least make a referenced list out of the information? Mjpresson (talk) 20:55, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * A copyvio is a copyvio and should be deleted. Tagged for G12 speedy accordingly. – ukexpat (talk) 21:02, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * And its been deleted. -- Jayron  32  22:34, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Content guidelines for references to fan fiction
A question has come up at the article on. Briefly, a fan of the story (and the fictional character) has composed an orchestral suite and added a reference and link to it in our article. I can find no mention of the composition online anywhere but in the composer's own writings (and Wikipedia mirrors). Two of the five movements of the suite have been performed (once) by a high school wind ensemble.

Does anyone know if we have specific content guidelines regarding when and how we ought to include references to various sorts of fan fiction, fan labor, and filk and other musical creations?

Comments related to this specific case are invited at Talk:Honor Harrington. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 21:11, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * WP:ELNO is a good place to start. There's got to be something there, like "Any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a Featured article" and "Links to blogs, personal web pages and most fansites, except those written by a recognized authority. (This exception is meant to be very limited; as a minimum standard, recognized authorities always meet Wikipedia's notability criteria for biographies). " and "Sites that are only indirectly related to the article's subject:"  all seem like good, established reasons which would disallow such links.  WP:NOT likely contains oodles of stuff you could cite aswell.  -- Jayron  32  00:52, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

'''==

Trying to insert content into BBC article and trying to insert info into England section of Opium article
==

I'm currently trying to insert some information about the BBC in the BBC article; namely, it's 10 year contract with Siemens (http://www.siemens.co./uk) see and click on the map - and the edit keeps coming off Wikipedia again. Does anyone know why this may be?

Jane —Preceding unsigned comment added by Janeyjo (talk • contribs)
 * Your edits were reverted by and . Although your edit may not have conformed to our style guidelines, it is my opinion that those edits should not have been reverted without at least giving a proper edit summary to explain why. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:30, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Check the messages on your talk page - you will need a more precise reference than the Siemens home page, and you will need to cite it properly, though that's a minor point as the citation formatting is easily fixed. – ukexpat (talk)


 * In addition to leaving an edit summary, I have also left a friendly message on the user's talk page to explain why I reverted the edit. I'm happy to help Jane out, should she wish.  Fortnum (talk) 23:52, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

I've just tried to leave it with the following http address, and it wouldn't let me do that either: http://w1.siemens.com/innovation/en/news_events/innovationnews/innovationnews_articles/e_21_no_0725_1.htm

I just plan to say that the BBC is currently engaged in a 10 year contract with Siemens and quote that address. Has anyone got any suggestions of where I can best insert that information?

Thanks,

Jane


 * Jane, that last URL you posted above doesn't work. It takes me to an error page.  A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 22:47, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

I tried today to insert something using a correct BBC URL but it was opposed as "vandalism" and "unconstructive". Who says so, and why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Janeyjo (talk • contribs)
 * Why? The link you inserted was bad; the text was in the wrong place (under "Governance"; before that you'd put it in under "Revenue"); it had no context and no indication of why anybody should care that the Beeb had a contract with Siemens. Who? It was reverted most recently by User:Nick Cooper; before that, by User:AxG. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  19:02, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * It wasn't a correct url. Please check that links work. You have now in different places given 4 different url's as source links for the contract but 3 of them don't work and the 4th has no information about the contract. The link you tried to add in should be http://www.bbcgovernorsarchive.co.uk/docs/reviews/vfm_outsourcingreport.pdf and not http://www.bbcgovernorsarchive.co.uk/docs/.../vfm_outsourcingreport.pdf. "..." is not a part of the url but a sign that a part has been omitted. The browser needs that part to find the page. I don't know why you are so eager to get this contract mentioned (see Conflict of interest if you are involved in it) but note that if it becomes part of the article then other editors may look for context and add unflattering sources like MPs slam BBC Siemens sell-off and Long-term deals forcing BBC cuts with statements like "three times cheaper to buy a personal digital assistant device on the high street than in-house from Siemens." PrimeHunter (talk) 19:44, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I may try again later. Meanwhile I am trying to insert content into the ENGLAND section in the article OPIUM and it says it won't let me edit it because there is a missing picture or something. I am want to add the sentence "Indeed, Opium is grown all over Europe, making for surplus supplies..... and add the reference[ http://www.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/pdf/3036656/afg-CN-Macfarlansmithreport'''] --Janeyjo (talk) 10:20, 24 September 2009 (UTC) It seems to have accepted the last edit I made on that page, actually - under Legal Production rather than Production in the UK - though I was worried someone might see it as "Vandalism" or "Unconstructive" for their own reason. --Janeyjo (talk) 11:00, 24 September 2009 (UTC) Someone has removed that edit, actually: in the end I said that "Opuim is currently produced in Europe in massive quantities by Macfarlan Smith, (owned by Johnson Matthey who purvey precious metals): indeed they say that the Senlis report is completely out of date and misleading: (then link above) Does anyone know why anyone may have removed this information? I'd be happy to hear from you if you do. Thanks, --Janeyjo (talk) 14:31, 25 September 2009 (UTC) I've found out that the link no longer works, but I do have the hard copy, addressed to Isabelle Izzard.--Janeyjo (talk) 14:39, 25 September 2009 (UTC) Just found out I'd missed an "e" out of it: it's $$Insert formula here$$ --Janeyjo (talk) 14:54, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

It has now been removed, and I don't understand why....? Please do talk to me about it....--94.2.22.31 (talk) 20:10, 25 September 2009 (UTC)