Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2010 August 18

= August 18 =

AIRES Flight 8250
There's some weird reference in the article (see Notes section). I have no idea what was intended. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:52, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It's meteorological data from the airport Flight 8250 departed from, but not from the time of the crash. I'm stumped, but I'm glad to know about this whole METAR thing. --Danger (talk) 01:15, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Saving a wiki book?
Do I really have to make 10 edits before I will become an autoconfirm user just to save a wikibook into my userspace? Seems a bit silly, shouldn't you only have to be an autoconfirm user to add it to the wiki book library. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Basler04 (talk • contribs) 01:29, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * All you need to be is autoconfirmed. On the english wikipedia to become autoconfirmed takes 4 days and 10 edits.   GB fan  talk 03:44, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

help moving a draft article to a new article
Helpful Wikipedians, I have been inactive on the wikis for a while but and got a request from a random friend of a friend (mutual friend talks to ALOT of random people about how much I like wikipedia) to help move a page from her namespace to an actual article. I don't know this Sarah girl, and am not up on the lastest wikipolicy. I suspect that she may be just trying to promo this credit union, but I also googled and verified that this credit union is the second largest in richmond and is basically the Philip Morris credit union (possibly meeting requirement for notability). Here is her email to me... Hi there,

(TALKY MUTUAL FRIEND WHOSE NAME IS OMITTED) suggested I contact you about a Wikipedia page I'm working on. I would be forever grateful if you could help me out. I'm new to Wikipedia, and I'm pretty sure I'm not doing something right.

I created a draft page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kitese/Call_Federal_Credit_Union) but cannot for the life of me figure out how to make it active. Someone said there's a 'move' button, but I don't see it. My attempt to move it mistakenly marked it for deletion. Any tips.... or is it a lost cause?

Cheers, Sarah

It looks like she is trying to follow the rules... so I thought maybe some motivated active wikipedian might want to take this up. I am not super enthused about coming out of nowhere and creating articles for strangers, so I came here, to the help page to seek assistance. Would appreciate any intervention or advice. Peace, MPS (talk) 04:11, 18 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, after looking at Sarah's draft, for the most part, its OK. Still needs some work tho: (you may want to point her to this page.)
 * Take a look at WP:IBX. This article needs an infobox, instead of a bunch of bold titles.
 * Remove the first heading, this will be automatically added when it is moved.
 * As you may have realized, this article just barely skids over the NPOV line. Try making the article more neutral.
 * There shouldn't be any kind of external links in the article itself, it's bad form. Try finding interwiki articles about the topic.
 * Remove the "Services" and "Board Members" sections.
 * On the awards section, you should look at Template:Awards. Read carefully, it's complicated!
 * See WP:ORIGINAL, about the source of your information
 * You may need more sources, from places other than the few you specified.
 * Otherwise, it looks to be accepted. Tell me once all those are done, and I'll send it on its way!
 * Also, you/Sarah may not be able to move the page, as your accounts must be (auto-)confirmed. Cheers! A p 3 rson  ‽   04:42, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey Ap3rson, thanks a bunch for the feedback... I will try to work with her to clean up the article to standard. I personally do have the ABILITY to move but, like I said, appearances are important and I think it would be better for an active wikipedian to say, "yes this is up to current standards of neutrality and notability and whatnot" ... I will let you know here and on your talk page when I think it is ready for page move. Peace, MPS (talk) 14:56, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Help Collapsing
I recently created Template:ButlerBasketballSeasons and when I put it at the bottom of each season's page, the template is not collapsed. How do I make it collapse automatically? City boy77 (talk) 05:52, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * add " | state = " in it. wiooiw (talk) 09:05, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It seems that it does on work on the Template:CBB navbox. Well, most of the navboxes that use that template is not going to be collapsed. If there is two or more of those templates together, then it should automatically collapse. wiooiw (talk) 09:31, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, I just made an addition to the CBB navbox so now it does use the template shown above. Just place it under " | title ". wiooiw (talk) 09:38, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Image Upload
How can I upload image directly to English Wikipedia? The images that I wish to upload are usually under PD-Italy, which is not compatible with commons. Therefore, I would like to ask how to directly upload to English Wikipedia. Also, my account is 6 months old, and I have made 10 edits so far, and I'm not sure if I'm an autoconfirmed user. If I am, how can I upload images directly to English Wikipedia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.148.133.54 (talk) 07:13, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * When logged in, click Upload file on the left side of any page on the English Wikipedia. Because you're not logged in, I can't verify that you're autoconfirmed, but if your account has made at least ten edits and is at least four days old, then it's autoconfirmed and can be used to upload images.  --Mysdaao talk 12:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Looking for a word
I am looking for a word to best describe an action. An example: If a company hires people and is getting a monetary kickback from the government and is only going keep a certain amount of those people. They then come up with an excuse to get rid of the rest of them. They will still get the kickback from the government, but it is through deceit. Robbery is one name but there is another legal name I can not think of at this time. Can you help me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rfrancis1234 (talk • contribs) 07:19, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * You might have better luck at Reference desk/Language -- wiooiw (talk) 09:57, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * This might be too generic but might the word you are looking for be fraud/defraud? By the way, the word "kickback" in your question is not quite right. A kickback refers to an illegal or improper payment, almost always under the table, but in your scenario, the government is not the bad guy but is being defrauded. The government is simply making some kind of incentive payment and then getting taken for a ride.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:21, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Writing an article in a different language than sources
I want to write an article about a private company. There have been multiple news articles published in Chinese that I want to use as sources, but the article should be written in English. Can I use these sources? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.82.233.14 (talk) 08:27, 18 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, this is OK. Please see WP:NONENG for the details. -- John of Reading (talk) 11:48, 18 August 2010 (UTC)


 * ... although you should try to find at least one source written in English as well. I would question whether the English Wikipedia is the right home for an article for which there are only non-English sources and no English sources at all. Gandalf61 (talk) 12:15, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Consider reading Starting an article if you decide to create an article. wiooiw (talk) 12:29, 18 August 2010 (UTC)


 * You will also need to register for an account, and please consider using the new article wizard. – ukexpat (talk) 14:29, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * You might want to consider creating an article on the Chinese Wikipedia (here) - I would suggest that a private company which has no coverage in English language sources may not meet the notability criteria (see here) or the specific criteria for businesses (see here) on the English Wikipedia, but may meet the Chinese criteria here. --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 15:01, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Improper link within an article
I am unsure how to correct an improper link within an article, specifically, the link to "Frank Amato" in the Pittsburgh Crime Family" article. The Frank Amato to which the link refers is not the same Frank Amato referred to in the article.

MaggiePghMaggiePgh (talk) 09:30, 18 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Well that seems to be the correct person but "Gregorio Conti" defintally is not. You can add links by putting " " around the word. Removing it will unlink the word. See WP:Link for more information. wiooiw (talk) 09:50, 18 August 2010 (UTC)


 * They actually appear to be different people but both US gangsters. I have disambiguated with piped redlinks. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:29, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Accessing the internet
what do i need to do to access the internet from my sidekick lx handset?16:16, 18 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.27.155.192 (talk)
 * Symbol_move_vote.svg Have you tried the section of Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in answering knowledge questions there; this help desk is only for questions about using Wikipedia.  For your convenience, here is the link to post a question there: [ click here] . I hope this helps. --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 16:26, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Template:Infobox video game
Hey guys/gals, I have noticed that the VG infobox used to say about the game engine within a video game article. When I edit a VG article, I can still put in information for a game engine but it no longer shows up on the page. In this example, you will see I have put in details but it won't appear on the page. I'm just wondering whats up with it. Thanks. All the best, WhiplashInferno (talk) 16:22, 18 August 2010 (UTC)


 * The engine field was removed from the infobox on August 14 along with several other fields. The discussion that led to this is at Template talk:Infobox video game.  --Mysdaao talk 16:40, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, OK then. Thanks a lot anyway. Kindest Regards, WhiplashInferno (talk) 16:45, 18 August 2010 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. --Mysdaao talk 16:51, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I would like to create a Wiki page for my web site Movie Review Intelligence, which is a professional movie review web site
I would like to create a page for my web site Movie Review Intelligence, which is a professional movie review web site. I was blocked from Wikipedia by my competition, but the 6-month penalty period is now over. Am I allowed to have a page on Wikipedia? Am I allowed to post professional movie review information on other movie pages?

David A. GrossDagrossla (talk) 17:23, 18 August 2010 (UTC) Editor & Publisher MovieReviewIntelligence.com


 * I was blocked from Wikipedia by my competition I seriously doubt that actually happened.


 * Am I allowed to have a page on Wikipedia? Has your site be the subject of coverage by multiple reliable sources? if yes, then the answer is likely yes, if no, then the answer is no. --Cameron Scott (talk) 17:27, 18 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Before you proceed pls read Conflict of interest and Notability..that said ..See Article wizard it will help you through the process of submitting a new article to Wikipedia. However the two points said first must be adhered to or the new article will simply be deleted. Moxy (talk) 17:31, 18 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Unless your competition is an admin, then I doubt that you were blocked from Wikipedia - perhaps you'd like to elaborate on what you meant? As to whether your website would be notable enough for inclusion, as well as the Notability link given by Moxy above, Notability (web) might also be useful. The little news coverage I found makes it sound like Rotten Tomatoes - but most of the references I found were either a minor quote from you, or press releases. You might also like to read WP:Reliable sources and WP:Independent sources which explains what kind of sources are preferred by Wikipedia --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 18:12, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Even then, the blocks are supposed to be put in place by an uninvolved admin. Bk314159 (talk) 19:35, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

As a followup question by a newbie admin, Movie Review Intelligence (the supposedly "deleted" page in question) doesn't seem to have any deleted revisions. Is the original posted mistaken, or do deleted revisions expire at some point? Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward: not at work) - talk 19:34, 18 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Apparently www.moviereviewintelligence.com is blacklisted due to excessive spamlinking. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  19:45, 18 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Ouch! – ukexpat (talk) 19:51, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * That's not necessarily shooting oneself in the foot; I suspect that it is what David was talking about, but didn't have the technological Wiki-jargon to make clear. The discussion of last September you'll find in his contributions conveys his point of view on the blocking of links to his site. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  19:54, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Below are three articles about Movie Review Intelligence from 1) the New York Times, 2) the Los Angeles Times and 3) the Boston Globe. I would like to have a page on Wikipedia.  I would also like to post our movie review information on other movie pages.  Our information is more accurate than other movie review sites that are allowed on this site.  We are professional movie review site, quoted regularly throughout the movie business.  We have been blocked from posting our information on Wikipedia because our competition said we were spamming.  We were not spamming.  We have better information.  We have served our penalty.  Now I would like to be on this site.  Here are the articles: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/13/movies/13critics.html?_r=2&ref=arts http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/13/entertainment/et-rotten13 http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/articles/2010/05/25/movie_critic_struggles_with_rating_films/ David A. GrossDagrossla (talk) 04:03, 19 August 2010 (UTC), Editor & Publisher, MovieReviewIntelligence.com
 * Can you supply evidence to support the statement "We have been blocked from posting our information on Wikipedia because our competition said we were spamming." ?  Sean.hoyland  - talk 04:35, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Two websites have a monopoly on Wikipedia when it comes to posting authoritative movie review information. I have provided articles that explain the background and origin of my site and theirs. Movie Review Intelligence is more accurate and thorough than other sites because it takes a professional and statistical approach. When we posted review information, it was reported as spam and I was blocked. I would like to know what it takes to have a page on this site and what qualifies a site to be the recognized authority when it comes to movie reviews. David A. GrossDagrossla (talk) 05:11, 19 August 2010 (UTC) Editor & Publisher, MovieReviewIntelligence.com


 * In general, what it takes is community acceptance that the subject is notable, which typically comes from the finding of reliable, independent sources which cover the topic. The sources you've provided above do indeed meet that criterion and would be acceptable as the basis for an article. However, it is important to consider that Wikipedia in general strongly pushes against perceived conflict of interest in its editors, and that it is probably because most of the references to your site have been added by people affiliated to it that it has not been accepted. In general, it is better to allow independent editors to take note of your site and then write an article on it of their own free will than to do so yourself; this is exactly how the articles for your competitors were started. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward: not at work) - talk 08:56, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Chris Cunningham, thank you for your explanation. Orange Mike, than you for looking at this. "...most of the references to your site have been added by people affiliated to it [probably explains why] it has not been accepted." -- I am not aware of anyone related to my site making references, following our mistakes six months ago. We have been banned, so it has not been possible to do so. I have provided feature articles from the New York Times (the newspaper of record), the Los Angeles Times (lead chronicler of the movie business), and the Boston Globe. We have other citations on CNN.com, the Associated Press, New Jersey Star-Ledger, et. al. I am going to stop asking now, because I do not know how to navigate your rules and regulations. I am not familiar with your Wiki-jargon. I hope at some point a Wikipedia editor will look into this area. Movies are an important popular and fine art. Wikipedia deserves to have excellent sources of movie reviews -- accurate, professional, unbiased. MovieReviewIntelligence.com is such a source (here is why http://iurl.us/bcj). If at some point we are made welcome on Wikipedia, please contact me at dagrossla at verizon dot net. Our content is available. At the moment, your movie review coverage is weak. David A. GrossDagrossla (talk) 17:13, 19 August 2010 (UTC) Editor & Publisher, MovieReviewIntelligence.com
 * Having read over this discussion, I have created a (brief) article at Movie Review Intelligence. I have exhausted all relevant Google web, Google News, and LexisNexis hits to make it this long, and am not entirely happy with it (especially my prose!) so I would welcome any thoughts/additions/changes. Mr. Gross, as an expression of good faith, I would very strongly advise you (or others with a conflict of interest) not to make edits to the article itself, and instead to post comments or suggestions on the article's talk page. If you find that you don't get a response - some talk pages can be very lightly trafficked - you might consider requesting assistance at this Help Desk, which is heavily watched. I'm going to look into getting the address of the site whitelisted for the article, although that decision will be made by those who have more knowledge about this sort of thing. -- Kateshortforbob talk  11:49, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Kateshortforbob, thank you for writing the article about Movie Review Intelligence. It is fair and clear. Perhaps one day it will have more meat on its bones. Thank you for taking the time to research it and write it. I will not touch it or anything else on Wikipedia. I do have 3 questions: 1) In the References section of the article, the forth citation is a piece from the Los Angeles Times called, "Mixed reviews for Rotten Tomatoes and other aggregate websites." Should it be a link to the article itself, like the first 3 citations? 2) the Wikipedia articles for the other movie review aggregators have a box on the right side of the article that shows some basic information about the site, their URL and a little graphic; can the article about Movie Review Intelligence have something like that? If so, how does that happen? And 3) This is most important. Throughout Wikipedia, the articles written about specific movies include information about their Reception, which includes information from other movie review aggregators. There is lots of that information, with great detail. For instance, for the movie Eat Pray Love there is a 38% score from one of the other movie review aggregators. For the movie Inception, there are several scores from different aggregators. Movie Review Intelligence believes its information is more accurate and deserves to be included in the discussion. (Eat Pray Love is not a bad movie. It is not a good movie. Its reviews were moderate, or 56% positive). Who posts that information? How does it appear? I do not wish to do it -- it would be considered spam. Someone is doing it. Movie Review Intelligence is recognized as an authority in the movie business. Can we be included in these movie articles? Thank you. David A. GrossDagrossla (talk) 16:27, 21 August 2010 (UTC) Editor & Publisher, MovieReviewIntelligence.com

adding a link
I tried to add a link under the subject of my website. I offer free use of what I make. There was another site offering the same thing there but mine are all animated. I am not ad supported and am not doing this for profit. It was deleted. Any tips you can give me would be appreciated. I tried reading the facts and thought I was in compliance. Kellyannepeaceartist (talk) 17:50, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * You might want to read External links which explains which links are relevant to an article, and which might not be suitable --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 18:06, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Kelly Anne, a lot of folks don't realize that our prohibition on promotional editing doesn't just apply to commercial firms, but also to non-profits, personal websites, self-advertisement and the like. As a matter of fact, I've seen at least one person suggest that we should block your username because it gratuitously advertises your artwork. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  19:51, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

proof-wiki - Template:Equation
Is there such a template in wikipedia? thanks, 20:40, 18 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.250.178.190 (talk)


 * How about Equation? – ukexpat (talk) 20:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I have already seen it, but it's less comfortable then proof-wiki's when it comes to long proofs - readers have to constantly move from one equation to the other, whereas in proof-wiki it's written in the same row. 22:42, 18 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by נו, טוב (talk • contribs)


 * It shouldn't be too hard to re-create the proof-wiki version (and the other templates that it calls) here on Wikipedia (maybe as Equation2). I suggest that you ask for help at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics. – ukexpat (talk) 00:52, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Carlo Dini
The article written giving information about Carlo Dini is correct. You will find his records on Youtube,his perfume Purdey's photograph is available bearing his name,Rola Cola website www.rolacola.net will demonstrate his ownership.

For more confirmation you may contact

With many thanksJoedwek (talk) 21:40, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * None of those sources meet Wikipedia's standards for reliable sources, as they are either not independent (see independent sources) and/or not 'reliable'. To avoid the Carlo Dini article being deleted, there needs to be independent, reliable sources which verify the information. He also needs to meet Wikipedia's general notability guidelines, the notability criteria for biographical articles and the notability criteria for singers --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 22:02, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I notice from your Twitter account that the one tweet you have made is "Carlo Dini Opera singer (can be heard on Youtube).Completing a CD to be ready for Christmas 7:23 AM Jun 19th, 2009 via web" - do you have a conflict of interest? --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 22:05, 18 August 2010 (UTC).

I am his manager and I tried to give some information about Carlo Dini. Everything I had written about him is true and correct.About his records,about his appearances,about his performance before Her Majesty the Queen of England,and his invitation to the White House from President Clinton.I have letters to support that,the only problem is I am not familiar with the sort of presentation you require. I have never done that. You made a mistake deleting it.

Mel Davis

Trying to link to spanish wiki
trying to link from english wiki to spanish wiki (a name in an article). how do i do that? keeps telling me the link doesnt exist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Annaloza (talk • contribs) 22:48, 18 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Which English page and which Spanish page are you trying to link? PrimeHunter (talk) 00:29, 19 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Depends how you are trying to link it. If you just want to add an interwiki link to the side menu, you would add  somewhere on the page, usually at the bottom. For example, adding   is what gives the link to the Spanish version of the Help Desk, as seen on the left.


 * If you are trying to add a link to another wiki in the middle of the article, it's usually good to leave a redlink so we know a local article doesn't exist, and superscript the interlanguage link.


 * An example would be... " text text text Uzanto:Avicennasis (EO) text text." This would let English readers know that the article doesn't exist in English, but lets Esperanto speakers (ISO 639-1 code EO) that there is an article in Esperanto by that title. Avic ennasis  @ 02:28, 9 Elul 5770 / 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * See Help:Interlanguage links. --Teratornis (talk) 17:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)