Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2010 July 19

= July 19 =

Right to vote
I couldn't find an unambiguous answer to this, hence this thread. Am I eligible to vote for or against an article's deletion, granting adminship to a user, promoting an article to FA status, demoting an article from its FA status, etc, given my experience so far? --Магьосник (talk) 01:37, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The succinct answer is yes, as any user with a history of constructive contributions (broadly construed) can participate in discussions. The longer answer is that while you may be eligible to vote, keep in mind that these are discussions, where a vote with no explanation or context will often be weighted less (by the closing administrator, bureaucrat, or Featured article official, respectively) than a vote with a justification, hence the paradigm "!vote". Therefore, sometimes even users who have not any such history are allowed to participate, based on the merits of their arguments. However, this is not the case in "actual" elections such as for ArbCom, Steward, OS/CU, Board, etc., because in these cases voting more than discussion determines promotion or appointment, so there are requirements to prevent vote-stacking. These requirements vary with the election.  Intelligent  sock  02:31, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Table of Contents
How do you add tocs to article-space? This page doesn't have one. :| TelCo NaSp  Ve :|   02:28, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Pages with a minimum of four sections will automatically generate a Table of Contents. The Magic word  will force a table of contents, but I seem to recollect that its use in the articlespace is generally discouraged.  Intelligent  sock  02:34, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Note that I have moved the article to Extreme clipper in accordance with naming conventions. – ukexpat (talk) 14:43, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

How to refer to a user with no user page?
Hi! Can someone please tell me what the right wikimarkup would be when, on a talk page, I want to (1) refer to a new user named "twelvefootzebra", let's say, who has yet to create a user page and, (2) simultaneously make the reference "clickable", and (3) keep it red, and (4) make the click land on the "special/contributions" page for that user? That's what you're supposed to do, right? Or am I out? Many thanks! –  OhioStandard (talk) 02:37, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Like this? Twelvefootzebra
 * Using this: Twelvefootzebra
 * :| TelCo NaSp  Ve :|   02:41, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Whoo hoo! You guys are the best! Cheers, –  OhioStandard  (talk) 02:45, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I think the example provided by TeleComNasSprVen, while in line with your request, is not the best way to "refer to a new user...who has yet to create a user page ", and may in fact be a confusing and pointless use of code. I would recommend linking to contributions, piping the link so that only the username is shown, for example:, or better, using the template  to generate the relevant links to user, talk, and contributions, like so: , which outputs . Incidentally, it seems that you have misspelt the username; there is no user registered under the name "twelvefootzebra".  Intelligent  sock  03:07, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * If it were me, I'd use user as well. The other example looks like a custom signature which I would take to mean that the user has a bit of WP knowledge and the sig was copied from somewhere.  The red isn't the same shade of red as WP's redlinks.  Dismas |(talk) 04:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, thanks for that Intelligent & Dismas. The second method Intelligent suggests does seem preferable, since the first puts the link up in blue (by default) rather than red, and it seemed to make sense that it should appear in red (although I don't like forcing it to that color permanently with code). The "twelvefootzebra" literal was just an example, btw. I used it because I didn't want to mention the actual user account name here, is all. Thanks again, –  OhioStandard  (talk) 04:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Lost Book
I have just begun visiting Wikipedia and have been pursuing information on various aspects of history and current events related to Kosovo. I enabled Book Creator and accumulated quite a few articles which I began organizing into chapters. Imagine my dismay to return today and discover that my book is gone. I did finally discover a place that states we must have an account for four days and have done some work on Wikipedia articles. Unfortunately, I was not aware of this yesterday (7/17/2010) and did not create my account until today (7/18/2010).

I gather there is no way to gain access once again to the material I had assembled without starting from scratch.

--M1$ty$m0m (talk) 04:06, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia link that ends with a ")"
When I try to post a Wikipedia link in an email, all links work except the ones that end with a right parenthesis. They look OK in my email but they don't work when my email reaches the adressee. Example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhalla_Rising_(film)

The addressee sees a message that says that the subject does not exist at Wikipedia, do you mean...

Am I doing something wrong when I try to send such a link? Timoneer (talk) 06:04, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Try replacing the parentheses with escape codes, %28 and %29. eg. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhalla_Rising_%28film%29  AJ  Cham  06:15, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Works great!  Now if I can only remember to do this!Timoneer (talk) 11:57, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Uploading a .JPG image file to an article
Hi I have created a new page entitled 'Cronulla Seagulls' about a soccer club. I am trying to upload the club logo. Via the Upload tool I believe I created a file called Cronulla_Seagulls_FC_logo.jpg. But when I try and link that filename into the atricle it doesn't recognise it. Have I done something wromg? Where is my uploaded file? Your help would be much appreciated. Regards, Nick.Nick palmer69 (talk) 06:20, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * It would appear that File:Cronulla Seagulls FC logo.jpg has been corrupted, as it isn't diplaying at all on my screen. It looks like you uploaded something, as the image information page exists, but it looks like you're going to have to try to upload a new version.  Click the link near the bottom of the page that says "Upload a new version of this file" and try again.  Perhaps something is wrong with the image file, or something glitched during the upload.  -- Jayron  32  06:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * No, it works fine for me and I've added it to the article (click on "edit" to see the syntax needed). However, the article needs references to third-party coverage of the club as at the moment it is rather difficult to see why it is notable in Wikipedia terms, and so is at risk of deletion. Has there been any newspaper coverage about the club, not just about its results, for example?  Read WP:CLUB for more information. BencherliteTalk 06:27, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't see the image, though it's fine if I download it to my desktop. I'm using IE8. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:36, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I have fixed the problem - the original JPEG was in CMYK format which IE cannot render (Firefox can). I have uploaded a new version in RGB format and reduced the size to comply with WP:NFCC. – ukexpat (talk) 15:33, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Classic Cigarettes
Hi, I uploaded a new article on Wikipedia today but I can't find it when I search for it. The article's name is Classic Cigarettes. COuld you please tell me what the issue is. prefix:Wikipedia:FAQ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Classic.cigarettes (talk • contribs) 06:55, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The page was created on your user page rather than as an actual article. It is also blatant advertising which is a violation of our rules, so I'm afraid the page will have to be deleted. Creating articles about your own company is very much discouraged – please see WP:Conflict of interest.  Your username is also a problem, and I've noted this on your talk page.  AJ  Cham  07:06, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * And see WP:SPAMNAME. – ukexpat (talk) 14:36, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Blocked indef, adverts in mainspace and userspace deleted and mainspace page salted for good measure for a couple of weeks. Thank you for bringing your problematic editing so speedily to our attention. BencherliteTalk 14:46, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Citations and references
I would like to contribute an article about some Irish bands that were popular in the 1970s but never quite made it in the UK. I have lots of original newspaper articles from the time but, because these all predate the internet revolution, it would be difficult for someone to verify them without physically going to the newspaper archives of, for example, The Belfast Telegraph or The Irish News. Are these sources still acceptable as article citations to verify the veracity and notability of such an article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Terryfic10 (talk • contribs) 09:09, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes. A reliable source is one with a reputation for fact-checking an accuracy. It does not need to be available over the internet, or even easily accessible. As long as it was once published in a reproducible medium, and can still be accessed by someone, it's OK. Someguy1221 (talk) 09:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * That's fine, as long as the publications are reputable, and the articles demonstrate the significant coverage required to meet notability guidelines. The template is useful for these kinds of references. If you provide as much info as you can about the source (publication, date, issue no., page number(s), article title etc.) it makes it all the easier to verify.  AJ  Cham  09:22, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Is there a reason for the underlining on this page?
On the page for Desert climate, the second paragraph is underlined. Is there a way to remove it? Or does it have to do with the Reference necessary template? DandyDan2007 (talk) 10:45, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The underlining is a deliberate side-effect of . It is trying to make it clear that the entire paragraph needs references. I've not run into this template before; it seems to be more usual to place at the end of the paragraph. -- John of Reading (talk) 11:25, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Facts related to an inground swimming pool
Can someone tell me how much water there would be in a swimming pool that is 20'w X  40'l  and at the shallow end it is 3' deep and at the deep end it is 9' deep. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.92.79.233 (talk) 12:58, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Please use the reference desk next time. Basically, you add up 3' and 9', then multiply that by 40', and divide by two, so you have the base area of the swimming pool. Simply multiply the result with 20 to get the whole volume of the swimming pool.  Kayau  Voting  IS   evil 13:12, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * This sounds like homework, let's not help too much.-- SPhilbrick  T  13:26, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Infobox question...
In the "Swimming" infobox, there is a centered label for "size," as can be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ddbruce

The top infobox has three centered labels with faint lines underneath.

How do I make these centered labels in a regular infobox?

Thank you, ddbruce —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ddbruce (talk • contribs) 14:00, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * , like most other info boxes, makes use of the template to get its work done. The parameters to  are taken three at a time, eg header5, label5, data5. If you look at the source for, you'll see that it uses label8 + data8 to get the word "Owner" as a label and, say, "D Bruce" as the text next to it. But for the "Size" it uses header23 and omits both label23 and data23, and this gets you a centred heading.


 * ...but before you get carried away, remember that you are going to need reliable sources to demonstrate that the Senator P. Eugene Casey Memorial Pool meets the general notability guidelines. -- John of Reading (talk) 15:24, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

What if I am the source? I work there. -ddbruce —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ddbruce (talk • contribs) 23:05, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * With all due respect, no you are not a reliable source. Please see WP:RS and WP:V. – ukexpat (talk) 01:18, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I do not take offense to that, however, if I choose to state hours of the facility or the size of the pool in gallons, I have to reference that? I highly doubt there is a book or article published on this particular swimming pool.

Ddbruce (talk) 03:13, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Looking for a third opinion about revision to Rick Scott page
Over the weekend I discussed a change I proposed to the Wikipedia article for Rick Scott with another editor, but I'm at a bit of an impasse. What I would like to do is replace this paragraph:


 * In April 1987, while a partner at Johnson & Swanson, Scott, along with two former executives of the Republic Health Corporation, a Dallas-based hospital chain, made a $3.8 billion all-cash offer to purchase the Hospital Corporation of America (HCA). HCA's board rejected the offer.

It's not technically wrong, but it was the first try on Mr. Scott's part to buy HCA, which he later succeeded in doing. So here is the expanded version I have suggested:


 * In April 1987, Scott made his first attempt to buy the Hospital Corporation of America (HCA). While still a partner at Johnson & Swanson, Scott formed the HCA Acquisition Company with two former executives of Republic Health Corporation, Charles Miller and Richard Ragsdale. With financing from Citicorp conditional on acquisition of HCA, the proposed holding company offered $3.85 billion for 80 million shares at $47 each, intending to assume an additional $1.2 billion in debt, for a total $5 billion deal. However, HCA declined the offer, and the bid was withdrawn.

I've kept all the existing sources and included some new ones, including the Washington Post and Associated Press. The other editor I spoke with does not seem very opposed to the change, but didn't think the new material added much. I disagree with that, as I explained on the talk page there, Mr. Scott made the deal with two executives from a corporation he had previously worked with in a big sale (Republic Health). In addition, the offer was not rejected outright, but considered and then declined. And of course, HCA did later agree to be bought by Mr. Scott.

I did not make the edits directly because I do have a financial relationship to Mr. Scott, and then having read WP:COI before I approached this page, I want to be very careful. I'd like to make this page more informative and better-written overall, but I seem to have got stuck here. Unfortunately, there is not a lot of activity on that Talk page, so it has just been myself and this other editor so far. I'd appreciate it if somebody here looked at the proposed material, and if you agree it meets Wikipedia's criteria and is worthy of inclusion, please make the change or signal your consent on the Talk page. Thanks in advance. Thirteenth Florida (talk) 16:01, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * As long as you keep off the "Mr. Scott" and other violations of our manual of style, this edit seems sound. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  14:47, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you Mike. I definitely do not intend to style my writing for the article like that, as you can see from my proposed excerpt above. I'm only referring to him that way here in "Talk page mode". Thanks for taking a look at this, I appreciate it. I will make the change soon. Thirteenth Florida (talk) 17:09, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

To blog, or not to blog
When, if ever, can a blog be Wikipedia acceptable when it comes to using it as a reference? I want to use this interview with an author, which has been taken verbatim from the teensreadtoo.com website and used within a writing blog (with full credit given).--Onthemap (talk) 16:08, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The guideline is here. As I understand it, you can cite the interview as a source of information, but you need to provide, in addition, independent sources to establish that the author is notable. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:25, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Cheers John. Many thanks for the info. I want to do an article on his book, rather than the author, but i needed to know if I could cite the interview as a ref.--Onthemap (talk) 17:15, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Cite the interview from its initial appearance, not its "reprinting" in the blog; just as you would cite an article from a magazine on its original publication, rather than a reprint in an anthology. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  19:26, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * For establishing notability there are various factors involved, independance is one, an interview with the author isn't independant so isn't of much use. Teensreadtoo has a section entitled "Author Services" here which doesn't overall bode well for the neutrality of the source, from the sounds of it offer to do and interview or sponser a prize and they'll help promote "you". You can also get help on evaluating reliability of sources as the reliable sources noticeboard. --82.7.40.7 (talk) 19:25, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Good point, 82.7! If the website fails our reliable sources test, a republication of something of theirs in a blog is only more so. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  19:27, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Dear 82.7. Please get off my back and stop trolling my every movement. For your information, although had I wished to consult your good self I would have written on your talk page, I wanted to establish here if an interview on a blog could be used as a reference for information. Not to etstablish notability, just as a reference for information. I hope I have made myself clear.--Onthemap (talk) 15:31, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Trolling your every movement? This is a public board and I am just as entitled to comment here as anyone else, I don't need to wait for you to ask, if you don't want advice then don't ask on a public forum. As for the nature of your question not being about notability, I'll note that the other respondants have also framed it with regards notability. I hope I have made myself clear. --82.7.40.7 (talk) 19:26, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

prob with article
hi, im a fan of the northern irish band "Therapy?" I know there is an entry for the band as it shows a blurb of the article on google but when i try to access the page i am redirected to the main article on the word Therapy with no disambiguation page? Is this an error or has the page been removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.132.139.229 (talk) 16:53, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * That's odd. Therapy? is still there, and when I type "Therapy?" into the search box that's where I end up. But I've added a hatnote to Therapy so that it's easier to find next time. -- John of Reading (talk) 17:12, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * It depends how you try to access a page name with a question mark. See Naming conventions (technical restrictions). Typing it in the browser address bar doesn't work. MediaWiki and most other programs don't include it when generating links from url's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapy? doesn't work, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapy%3F works (see meta:Help:URL). It works for me to click the link in Google search results. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:19, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

duplicated AFD report
Hi, looking for Admin help to delete a duplicate AFD report. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Peter_Buttigieg_%282nd_nomination%29 thanks. Off2riorob (talk) 19:59, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Poof! TN X Man  20:06, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Off2riorob (talk) 20:15, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

accommodation in shostka ukraine
hi can you help me i am going to shostka for a holiday and been looking on the internet for hotel or apartment in the city can you tell me any names of places and where can i book them thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.211.210.30 (talk) 20:13, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Hello. I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over three million articles, and thought that we were directly affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is a help desk for asking questions related to using the encyclopedia. Thus, we have no inside track on the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. TN X Man  20:17, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

CONFIRMING RESOURSES
Im trying to start a page on record producer Kyle West. I need references so the page isn't deleted. My question here is that his credits are all over wikipedia and already and his work is on You Tube. Would that be sufficient enough as resources to "confirm" his page? Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.101.115.217 (talk) 21:51, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * No, that's not sufficient. You can see our standards at WP:N and at WP:BAND. --AndrewHowse (talk) 22:12, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * And for people, WP:BIO. – ukexpat (talk) 01:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Kyle West, as it currently stands, is an unreferenced biography and will likely be deleted. The article's creator, User:Keywestmusicinc, has the appearance of a WP:COI and some username problems. --AndrewHowse (talk) 17:04, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * It is a clear violation of the user name policy and I have reported it to WP:UAA. – ukexpat (talk) 14:29, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Jellyfish
Do jellyfish die when they are washed ashore during a high tide or do they stay alive until the tide returns to wash them back out to sea?

If a jellyfish is squished in part of the top of its mantle will it die? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.164.160.4 (talk) 22:30, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Symbol_move_vote.svg Have you tried the section of Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in answering knowledge questions there; this help desk is only for questions about using Wikipedia.  For your convenience, here is the link to post a question there: [ click here] . I hope this helps.  TN X</b> Man  22:30, 19 July 2010 (UTC)