Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2010 July 27

= July 27 =

Use of movereq template without subst
Hi! An article I've contributed to is currently the subject of a rename/move request !vote on its talk page, and I noticed the wikimarkup used to tag its talk page was. But the top of the relevant section says, "Please do not use directly on page-move requests — instead, use or . This is so a permanent record of the proposed page name can be placed on the talk page." I didn't want to change the on-page usage myself, because I didn't know if that might have unintended consequences. Will it, or ... I guess I'm not sure what to do at this point to both make sure a permanent record of the move request gets placed on the talk page once the !vote closes and to not screw things up, e.g. by effectively relisting it by changing the on-page usage to use subst. Help please? –  OhioStandard (talk) 01:56, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Everything is fine and when the move request is closed, a permanent record will be left. I can see how the language in the template would be confusing in the way you read it. It only really makes sense if you know how move and multi-move work (which may indicate that the language in the template needs to be clarified, though you are the first person I've ever seen raise this [I am a regular at WP:RM and wrote the closing instructions page, though not that template], but you also may be the first person to actually bother reading the template and notice the problem). Both of those templates place movereq with various formatting done in a certain way so that User:RM bot knows to transclude the discussion at WP:RM so that the move is listed and ultimately processed by an admin after seven days. What you are seeing on the talk page is actually the result of using , not  directly. I'll try to think of a way to clarify that language. BY the way, noting what you said at the move discussion, movereq is never substituted.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:54, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, I see! Thanks very much; I won't Fuhghettaboutit! ( How many times have you heard that, I wonder? Sorry. ) You couldn't be more clear. I'm cordially grateful for your reply, for your fine work here, and for your wikignomish work at WP:RM as well. I've modified the confused "housekeeping" comment I made at the subject !vote, based on this intelligence. Best, –  OhioStandard  (talk) 05:46, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * You're most welcome and thanks for the rest.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 11:50, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Bible related movies
I have seen the list of bible related movies and I want to know whre I can buy these on line .Please help, Pl reply to

B F Manoharan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.160.253.117 (talk) 02:15, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * This help desk is for Wikipedia-related topics only. If you want to talk about bible-related movies, head over to the appropriate reference desk and post your topic there. The Raptor  Let's talk/My mistakes; I mean, er, contributions 02:18, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but Wikipedia does not sell anything like movies or other items related to it's articles. Also, I'm sorry, but we cannot reply to you email address. TN X Man  02:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * This page is only for questions about using Wikipedia, not for general knowledge questions. If you have any factual questions, please use the search box or post them on the Reference desk. --Monterey Bay (talk) 04:10, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Please do not include your contact details. I have removed your email address.  Kayau  Voting  IS   evil 04:14, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Very old AFD RFA
AFD stands for April fools day. Gotcha! Requests for adminship/JI Hawkins looks terrible, probably because I messed up with the quote. Will someone please fix it so it looks normal?  Kayau  Voting  IS   evil 04:58, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Fixed by removing Quote. It doesn't go together with a numbered list.PrimeHunter (talk) 07:13, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Page Deletion
I want to nominate the page Constituency PP-155 for speedy deletion but i don't know what criteria to put it under.???Gobbleswoggler (talk) 08:12, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Also what critea would you select for a place that has no notability?,Gobbleswoggler (talk) 09:06, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * By design, the Speedy deletion criteria don't cover all types of article that seem to deserve deletion. If you can't find a speedy deletion criterion for a particular article, you could propose it for deletion instead. For an overview, see Deletion policy. But note that there seems to be a long-established rule here that all inhabited places are assumed to be notable, though I can't find a policy page to back that up. -- John of Reading (talk) 12:23, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * FWIW I have asked the Pakistan WikiProject to take a look at the article. – ukexpat (talk) 14:07, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Are there notability guidelines for progidies?
I am interested in progides and would like to write a number of articles about persons would did certain things very early such as Marian Kogler, the youngest person ever to graduate from college in Austria. He was 15 when he graduated. Would that fact make him notable?-- Greatgreenwhale (talk) 09:00, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * There are no special guidelines for prodigies. The main guideline for establishing notability is here; someone is notable, in Wikipedia terms, if he or she has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of that person. If the person is still alive, then you must take extra care to avoid unsourced statements; see these extra guidelines. -- John of Reading (talk) 12:34, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * And possibly the essay at WP:UPANDCOMING. – ukexpat (talk) 13:06, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you both :)-- Greatgreenwhale (talk) 13:26, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I may be a bit late to the party, but I'm inclined to chime in with WP:BLP1E, as well. In this case, it is surely a remarkable achievement &mdash; but not everything that gets reported in the newspaper necessarily belongs in the encyclopedia.  Particularly when dealing with an article about a living subject, we have to ask ourselves if there is sufficient material available in reliable secondary sources to even construct a proper biography.  TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:34, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia, not the Guiness Book of World Records. (I will also note that such assertions are often made without any trace of evidence to back them up.) -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  13:37, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Regardless of whether he gets an article here, Marian Kogler should become an editor on Wikipedia. A person that smart ought to easily digest our friendly manuals in no time, and then possibly improve them. --Teratornis (talk) 02:48, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Twinkle
Why is it when i edit a page using twinkle it adds the page to my watchlist?,Gobbleswoggler (talk) 09:15, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Although I don't use Twinkle, I see that it has settings that tell it to add pages to your watchlist - see the documentation sections starting with this one. -- John of Reading (talk) 12:40, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I could be wrong, but I don't believe that Twinkle is responsible for adding your edited pages to your watchlist; check the "Watchlist" section of your "My Preferences" page: at the bottom there are three checkboxes for "Add pages I edit/move/create to my watchlist". Try unchecking them and see if that does the trick (and please let me know if I'm wrong). Cheers! -- Bgpaulus (talk) 21:58, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Can someone please fix
At the page Hawthorn Football Club there is a mistake regarding citation-could someone please fix it please (I don't know why there's a referencing error)? Sp33dyphil (Talk) (Contributions)(Feed back needed @ Talk page) 09:39, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Done, I think. There were duplicate "premierships = " parameters in the infobox; one had the named reference in, but the second one (with the list of years) was the one that the software was using.  Hence, when the software was looking for a named ref later on, it didn't find it. BencherliteTalk 09:47, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Manufacturing in HK
Manufacturing in Hong Kong just went to DYK, and ever since the day I've been thinking of writing it, I've wanted to bring it to GA. But for now, I want some criticism of the article. I know it's a long way from GA. WP:FEED seems to be pre-DYK, but WP:PR seems to be pre-FA. So, what is the best way to get feedback? BTW, could anyone rate the article on the quality scale as well? (For the importance, I've picked high per WPHK's scale).  Kayau  Voting  IS   evil 11:05, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Feed/PR, either one is great for feedback. Seeing the work already done on the article, I'll recommend WP:PR. Leave a note for rating the article there.59.161.101.203 (talk) 16:43, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

creating a version of an article in a different language
Hello -- I've found an article in Portuguese which I feel should also be available in English. I can do the translation myself, but I don't know how to create the English version as a separate article. I'd be grateful for guidance. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.186.116.114 (talk) 11:53, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It's the same as creating any other article. You'll need to register an account first, though. Also, be sure to place on the talk page. I've left a standard message below this with some more help.


 * You will need to first register an account, which has many benefits, including the ability to create articles. Once you have registered, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Please also review a few of our relevant policies and guidelines which all articles should comport with. As Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, articles must not contain original research, must be written from a neutral point of view, should cite to reliable sources which verify their content and must not contain unsourced, negative content about living people.


 * Articles must also demonstrate the notability of the subject. Please see our subject specific guidelines for people, bands and musicians, companies and organizations and web content and note that if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends against you creating the article.


 * If you still think an article is appropriate, see Your first article and How to write a great article, and please consider taking a tour through the Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation. An Article Wizard is available to walk you through creating an article, but you will need to create an account to use it. if you don't wish to do so, you can submit a proposal for an article at Articles for Creation. TN X Man  11:59, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Apparently, transwiki importation is not enabled for Portuguese, so if I were you I would create an account, copy it into my userspace, provide attribution in my user talk, finish translating, move the page into the mainspace, and optionally, nominate it for WP:DYK.  Kayau  Voting  IS   evil 12:03, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Contributions by [76.254.32.248]
Hi there, I've been monitoring recent changes and this user has made a number of changes to pages on Chinese Christianity. I've reverted some of them due to lack of sourcing but the number of changes is growing, particularly the addition of lots of citation needed templates. Just asking for help on what to do, I have stopped simply reverting the changes as they might be being made in good faith, but made incorrectly. Thanks in advance CaptRik (talk) 13:06, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Capitan, have you tried discussing the issue with the user? Have you brought up the discussions on the talk page of the article? Try these two methods additionally. Educate the user about our pillars of editing.59.161.101.203 (talk) 16:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Page Deletion ???
The page Matt Henshaw has been repeatedly deleted. It should exist as a stub. There seems to be some question over the notability of past articles but present articles show an artist in the ascendancy. The page should exist if only as a stub. I have been sidetracked by this constant deletion and haven't contributed substantially to wikipedia now for sometime through fear of deletion. Ilsonowl (talk) 14:11, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Have you read WP:UPANDCOMING? – ukexpat (talk) 14:13, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * While you're at it, read our notability criteria.59.161.101.203 (talk) 16:33, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Problems with an article nontheism, the "word", and an AfD
The article nontheism recently was decided as a "keep" per an AfD. The closing admin commented, "However, this result was so tainted by canvassing that it should not prejudice a fresh AFD free of such activity." I did not count but about 60 members of one group were notified against WP guidelines. This was referenced in the AfD discussion, I made reference, and also concerns of many instances where the "word" was being used in articles, specifically titles, and an article was re-directed to "nontheism. I was even accused, and had to defend accusations of bullying for bringing these concerns up.
 * While the debate was on-going I did exhaustive research, and concluded, also considering WP:Wikipedia is not a dictionary and certain source exceptions, that this is "not" a word. This included following links on the article and searching dictionaries. Before I could make further comments the AfD was closed.
 * I have grave concerns considering what has transpired, that an article on WP has a title that is not a word, that there are many other instances of this, that an established article had been re-directed to one of these titles (a revert was changed) but thus far a move back has remained, and that I feel there is most assuredly a pattern of using Wikipedia to establish a new word and (possibly) to further an agenda. If I nominate for AfD again I would deem it necessary to seek a block on those on the "list" that was brought to light on the AfD. This is over my head, I feel that just doing nothing would be paramount to catastrophe concerning Wikipedia. I am not a "champion of causes" but feel when something is wrong it is wrong. In continuing with this I certainly "must" take into account (as I am not naive) that (even if only remotely possible), there could be retributions, since there is a list of some 60 editors involved in the use of the word in one way or the other. I must weigh doing what I think is right against possibly falling in a hole. The problem I have is what is a next step? Otr500 (talk) 14:39, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Open a fresh AfD. Go by consensus. Continue discussing on the talk page of the article with your concerns. Do not ignore all rules in this case.59.161.101.203 (talk) 16:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Sandpit (disambiguation)
There is an article about Sandpit (horse) that is not accessible in the normal way. When you type "Sandpit", you are routed to a page on sandpit (as in a sandbox children play in) - and the disambiguation link looks up "Sandbox" which is not the name of the horse.

In other words, to find Sandpit (horse) you need to type Sandpit (horse) - you can not navigate to it via the standard disambiguation method of typing Sandpit. This is because the Sandpit (horse) article is relatively new - basically the links need to change to account for this.

Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.99.14.218 (talk) 15:00, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I added a hatnote at the top of Sandpit directing people to the article on the Brazilian racehorse.  GB fan  talk 15:09, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I've tightened up the hatnote some, condensing some of the templates to one larger one. TN X Man  15:16, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

semi conductors
WHY silicon is preffered over other semi conductors? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.19.69.2 (talk) 18:18, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * For a lot of reasons, most of which are summarized here. If you have a more specific inquiry, you can ask at the science reference desk. TN X Man  18:25, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia arbitrage guidelines
Hello help desk,

I am looking for all guidelines on arbitrage because I would like to make referrals to the western criminal justice system when it comes to self-defense. Most wikipedia arguments come down to a sense of losing face or an argument, so often foul remarks are replied to in a foul way. It also happens only too often that the person defending him- or herself gets punished and the first offender gets away, followed a comment of an admin telling everybody to shut up about it. This is what is called catch 22. It is a situation created to make sure a person cannot defend him- or herself. There are laws against this and I think the wikipedia should try to reflect this more in its arbitrage system. To every case there are three sides after all and self defense is something that I would want everybody to be able to act on. --Faust (talk) 18:53, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * You mean arbitration per WP:ARBITRATION or dispute resolution in general per WP:Dispute resolution? But bear in mind that Wikipedia is not a democracy and there is no right of free speech here. – ukexpat (talk) 19:00, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Bear in mind, if you would, please, that each Wikipedia is able to develop its own processes and guidelines, and that the links given by Ukexpat are from en.wiki. Hence, we can't guarantee their applicability anywhere beyond en.wiki. Cheers--AndrewHowse (talk) 19:10, 27 July 2010 (UTC),

Thanks, I´ll pick this up at the ending of the week or so. --Faust (talk) 08:37, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Is there an RSS feed for DYK?
I have looked at Syndication but don't see the answer there. Thanks. Andrew Gradman talk/WP:Hornbook 21:25, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * That's an interesting question, I don't think so, because DYK, ITN, &c. are updated manually (bot or otherwise). Someone may have made a script that creates an RSS/Atom feed from the HTML on the main page (like the ones listed on WP:Syndication), but I don't think there's an "official" one. Calvin 1998 (t·c) 21:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll post a request at VP:Proposals. Andrew Gradman talk/WP:Hornbook 05:47, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Erroneous edit as IP
Hi. Urgent. I edited while logged out, and really didn't mean to (the last edit). Can I remove this (the last edit) permanently? You may see why I'm concerned. I'm an established editor. 194.81.199.36 (talk) 21:43, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * This was 194.81's last edit, at a noticeboard? If so I've just WP:REVDEL-ed it. Ping me on my talkpage if I got it wrong. TFOWR</b> 21:50, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Image history
A while ago, I uploaded Image:20 forthlin road.jpg. The image was fine, low quality but had high EV. A while ago, for some reason, a user 'rotated and fixed' the image. The image to me looks stupidly blurry now, and it was much better previously. However, the image seems to have been lost in history, and due to me only starting editing properly again recently, I have no clue where to look to get it back. Is there any way to get it back to its original form? -- Jack <font style="font-variant: small-caps; font-size: 105%">?! 21:48, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Take this with a grain of salt, since this is from memory, but I believe since all this happened in 2007-8, your version is gone; when the file was deleted because the new version was on Commons, the ability to retrieve the file is gone (the software has changed, and this is no longer the case). You can re-upload your version (at Commons, if it's got a free license) if you still have it. --Floquenbeam (talk) 00:27, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, thats the problem, I doubt I still have the image. Just rather annoying that the image was ruined when it has quite a bit of EV. Thanks anyway :) -- Jack <font style="font-variant: small-caps; font-size: 105%">?! 02:44, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Change username on Wikipedia account
I want to change my username from Anila Kadiwar to @nbiya @nebee Kadiwar, I tried to set up an account as this but did not allow me to set it up. Please assist........ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anila Kadiwar (talk • contribs) 22:56, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, there's no way to include an "@" in a username, for technical reasons. The documentation about this is surprisingly hard to find, but the software should have told you this when you tried to create it. --Floquenbeam (talk) 00:19, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
 * That said, you 'may be able to use the desired user name as a signature, which is the next best thing. Mjroots (talk) 20:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Automatically Shorten References By Bot?
Is there an bot that can automatically create shortened references from existing references? This is what I mean by shortened references:

I ask because this article's references are frequently repeated when they can simply be shortened. --Olduch (talk) 23:25, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Would WP:NAMEDREFS work there? I have seen a reference to a bot-generated title, I think in that context. I'll look further. --AndrewHowse (talk) 23:47, 27 July 2010 (UTC)