Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2010 June 12

= June 12 =

Section shows nothing but a link when I click edit
How do I edit this section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia#References —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noloop (talk • contribs) 00:25, 12 June 2010


 * It is correct. the Reflist creates the list from the elsewhere in the article.   GB fan  talk 00:32, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * For more on this, see WP:Citing sources. Dismas |(talk) 01:46, 12 June 2010 (UTC)


 * And Referencing for beginners. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 11:48, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

figure of speech
Just wanted to find out what u call these kind of words - like THEREIN. From the word therein i can make 9 other words without changing the order in which the letters appear - like THE THERE HERE ERE REIN HEREIN I HER HE WHAT are these kind of words called. Can u give me more examples —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.162.221 (talk) 02:23, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * If this has a name it might be in Category:Word play. You might subscribe to Word Ways: The Journal of Recreational Linguistics. See Word game. If you don't find it there and nobody answers here, ask on Reference desk/Language. --Teratornis (talk) 03:29, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The example you gave is a type of Kangaroo word with the joey words constrained to be made of consecutive letters. --Teratornis (talk) 03:38, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Category Suppression based on Namespace
The cat Category:Misplaced userspace drafts is populated every time someone uses Userspace draft on a page outside User (namespace 2) or Articlespace (0). As you can see from the category, all 11 pages are from WP:AFC pages. Can someone with a little more experience add Wikipedia Talk (Namespace 5) to the template to clean this up? Avic enna sis @ 05:50, 30 Sivan 5770 / 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Those articles are AfC submissions that are userspace drafts in userspace rather than moved to the WP talk: AfC area - maybe this cat should be called misplaced AfC submissions. ~ Qwerp Qwertus  ·  _Talk_ · _Talkback Me_ ·  06:07, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The pages in the category are not in userspace. That's the problem. Also, not all editors that use this template go through AFC - I would hazard a guess most don't. So the category rename would be unnecessary. Avic enna sis @ 06:29, 30 Sivan 5770 / 12 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I fixed it. No worries! Avic enna sis tb? @ 21:08, 4 Tamuz 5770 / 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Archiving
Could someone please check what's wrong with the archive coding I have placed a the top of my talk page - I just can't seem to make it work. Thanks! ~ Qwerp Qwertus  ·  _Talk_ · _Talkback Me_ ·  06:04, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * There were a few things that didn't look right, in particular headerlevel=1 and the maxkeepbytes=40. Normal posts to talk pages are headerlevel=2, that is, . Now that I have fixed that part, let's see if it archives now in half an hour (after 8:11 UTC, one hour after the bot made its last edit). PleaseStand (talk) 07:47, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I guess I'd just never used a . ~ Qwerp Qwertus   ·  _Talk_ · _Talkback Me_ ·  16:13, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I misread the contributions page. ClueBot has actually been down since June 2 &mdash; see User talk:ClueBot Commons/Archives/2010/June PleaseStand (talk) 21:54, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Some recent Site change Instantly crashes my browser on every Wikipedia page!
In order to read Wikipedia or even post this message, I had to Turn Javascript OFF simply to leave this message. While I am on an older browser (Netscape), due to hardware limitations, this sort of site behavior is simply unacceptable.

Note, the page worked just fine last time I accessed Wikipedia, which was after the recent major changes to the masthead, so it's not that.

What is the source of the recent change that could cause this problem? Is this a temporary site glitch? Can I get a response from a live human being doing technical work? What can or will be done by someone in Wikimedia to do about it?

The site looks and works perfectly fine at the moment, even though I have javascript turned off. If I turn javascript ON, and navigate to ANY page, instant "error type 1" crash! I am using a Mac.

As mentioned, it's working now, only because I have javascript off. But that is a poor stopgap for me. --berr 216.15.63.67 (talk) 08:06, 12 June 2010 (UTC)


 * What version of Netscape? Try creating an account and change the skin to monobook. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 11:50, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You are not the first to report this problem. 23926. Hopefully, somone can find a way to repair it, but such old browsers are not the highest priority, so it might take a while. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 22:56, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Netscape 7.4, 2004 the last version for older Macs (it goes up to 9). Ummmmm. I could settle for monobook but I guess that requires me to log on, turn off javascript and set a cookie, or type in monobook url manually in order to log on. Most people who have old computers won't know how to do that, and a good stop-gap fix would be to have the site auto-revert older browsers to monobook until or unless the problem is deemed fixable, since it's a fatal error. I rather like the current look of the site, however the new look works fine when javascript is turned off, which is obviously not ideal, and it worked fine before this week or so.
 * I appreciate your warning that old browsers are "not the highest priority", but this seems like a simple fix for an enormous problem for those of us who have it. It's not an optional thing for those users. Surely someone could provide an escape clause in the script, so as not to simply have the site be broken for us? Or is it not considered standard practice to test for older browsers and tell them to ignore said script? For a text-oriented, open source site that is used for research, it is a needless accessibility issue that leaves a few of us really screwed, especially since the new skin works just fine with js turned off. --berr 216.15.63.67 (talk) 03:58, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The issue appears to be with script that was only recently ported over from Wikimedia, which had the same problem. (that cause Wikimedia to crash the same browser). OK, here's a solution someone more knowledgeable than me could implement right away: someone with access to whichever script is being ported over from Wikimedia write one line in the Wikimedia script that would "test for browsers that are known to choke on the new script, and ask the browser to ignore the following script".
 * And yeah, I should create an account, but that won't help if older computer users are forced to use WP text-only. Turning javascript off would be preferable since at least the page loads normally then. --berr 216.15.63.67 (talk) 03:58, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * OK -- So the problem is not with the skin, since it loads fine with js turned off, but an associated Wikimedia script, it's a global script, it's called on every page. The script is something that Wikimedia already had (on every page there, too) and only got ported over recently. So it's probably the same script, there and here. There's a very limited list of what could be causing the problem, right? If you want, I can evaluate the .js files on my older browser using javascript console. How can i find out which ones were recently added? --berr 216.15.63.67 (talk) 04:14, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * This is more of a question for WP:VPT (and appears to have been already reported on that page, although no replies have been made as yet.
 * Until a developer can work on it, there may be a work-around via creating a user account - once created, you can either try the monobook skin, or activate some of the "Library and compatibility gadgets" on the "Gadgets" tab of the user preferences screens. Not ideal, but it is viable, and if you're strongly attached to your IP, you can just create your username to be your IP address. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 04:26, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Barek, thanks. OK, question: I haven't set up a WP id yet, I was actually going to finally do so until this bug came along, but I suppose I could type in the hard URL for monobook, log on using that, and set it to monobook when I come back, although the problem does not seem to be with the new skin itself.
 * That being said, to log onto bugzilla it says provide an e-mail address that will be accessible to anyone, e.g. spam. I don't want to have to create a spam box e-mail address just to report a bug, although if I sign up for bugzilla, I can confirm said bug on the bugzilla page and notify "the tech guy" that:
 * (a) it appears to be a globally called script, (b) recently added in the past week or so -- the new skin displayed fine, is not the source of the bug (c) Wikimedia already had the same bug on half of its pages that were testing out scripts for Vector beta, it appears to be a script for an advanced feature that older browsers can't read, and (d) turning off javascript turns off said bug, so a simple fix would be e) auto-revert to monobook for those users until or unless (f) an ignore-script can be added for older browsers, if it is a specific script.
 * Will signing up for bugzilla make my address public, i.e. spam? I notice that the e-mail of the respondents on the bug page is not listed, but bugzilla warns me not to use my regular e-mail account to report bugs! so is this just an overprotective disclaimer? Thanks again for the responses, y'all. Sincerely, --berr 216.15.63.67 (talk) 05:27, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I've never registerred on Bugzilla myself - but I would likely take the warning as factual. There could easilly be subscreens where the address is shown.  You could also try adding to the discussion at WP:VPT - it's more of a technical forum that this help desk, so someone there would be more likely to already be registered and could provide more feedback on that - or even create the bugzilla entry for you.
 * To create a Wikipedia account, you can also try using Request an account. Again, I haven't worked in that area of Wikipedia, so am uncertain how open the email information might be; you could ask at Wikipedia talk:Request an account as those who monitor that talk page would be more likely to know specifics of its functioning. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 14:40, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * 2011 update: While I've created a Wikipedia account since posting above, I just noticed this fatal bug was quickly FIXED (and there's an even easier fix, below) but has recently since returned, and will post a new note about it. Some older machines can't use Firefox;  Regardless of browser being out of date, Wikipedia is a major international (and primarily text-based) educational tool and should not crash a browser. This bug was confirmed here on June 21 of 2010 as occurring on several versions of older Mozilla browsers and was quickly FIXED at 23926.
 * However, it has recently since reappeared. Note that the page loads just fine in Netscape 7 (and presumably 9, the last version), appears same as in Firefox, then crashes when it attempts to load something from wikimedia after the entire page is up.  That is the same problem that occurred before. I have just noticed this and will post a new topic.
 * Also note that this is only in the new Vector skin (or whatever it's called), not the classic skin. So the problem can be fixed by restoring the fix that was used for 23926 and extending it to other recent Wikimedia updates, or else default to old skin for older browsers. Yclept:Berr (talk) 03:22, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

P. L. Travers
Article states that she was born in Maryborough Queensland, I'm reasonably sure that she was born in Maryborough Victoria. In fact, in July this year Maryborough Victoria will be holding their annual Fesival, celebrating her birth in their Town?

I apologise for the fact that I do not know how to deal with a wiki - and am too old to bother finding out.

Regards, H —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.229.13.227 (talk) 11:23, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Here's a link to a website for Maryborough, Queensland: Mary Poppins Festival. -- John of Reading (talk) 11:32, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You could place a tag indicating that it needs to be verified. Hope this helps.   Set Sail   For The   Seven Seas   285° 21' 30" NET   19:01, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Twinkle
On the twinkle tab,I press AIV to report a user but alot of the time it doesn't work. Why is this,Gobbleswoggler (talk) 11:34, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Please discuss at Wikipedia talk:Twinkle. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 11:46, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Arabic
wikipedia canot translate the pages into Arabic. what should i do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.238.198.9 (talk) 11:59, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia doesn't automatically translate pages. To get a page in Arabic in our Arabic Wikipedia, someone who speaks both Arabic and English needs to translate the page. (Alternatively he/she can just start a new page in Arabic from scratch.) If you want an Arabic version, go to the Arabic Wikipedia and do it yourself. You can be a great help! Thanks  Kayau  Voting  IS   evil 12:26, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Kayau is correct and you can find the link the Arabic Wikipedia here. TN X Man  16:16, 12 June 2010 (UTC)


 * There are free online machine translation tools like Google Translate at . They are not associated with Wikipedia and the quality of the translation is often poor. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:25, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

phonetics help
i m confused about the usage of British [yu], why is it replaced with [u] this confuses me a lot while i am learning to pronounce and spell. help plz —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.120.250.73 (talk) 13:50, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Please ask on the Language Reference Desk: this page is for questions about using Wikipedia. But I suggest you give a little more context to your question - in what words, used by whom? --ColinFine (talk) 14:43, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Scientific Notification in Wikipedia using unicode
Looking for a way to use unicode in typesetting to add complete scientific formulas to Wikipedia. All present formulas are in PNG format and impossible to paste. Is there a standard that Wikipedia use? I don't talk about LaTeX or pasted PNG files, but true formulas using html 5 and CSS3. Searching didn't deliver the right answers.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.132.97.34 (talk) 16:32, 12 June 2010 (UTC)


 * the standard is Help:Displaying a formula— you can ask on the talk page. HTML 5 and CSS 3 support by browsers is rather spotty. There is an intent to move MediaWiki towards HTML 5, but it will be a while. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 16:42, 12 June 2010 (UTC)


 * If you have/get an account, there is an option in the math section of user preferences that allows formulas to be displayed in MathML. I'm not sure whether it would work, but it's worth a try. Hope this helps.  Set Sail   For The   Seven Seas   286° 51' 45" NET   19:07, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

gramatical question.
why the news is and not the news are?17:04, 12 June 2010 (UTC)~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.144.160.201 (talk)
 * "News" is an uncountable term, which means it does not take a plural form and should be used with "is", not "are". TN X Man  17:13, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Kudos for being able to figure out what that... question... means! Dismas |(talk) 00:36, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I was reminded of a joke. There was once a newspaper with an extremely picky editor, who insisted upon proper grammar at all times. During an very tense day, with a deadline fast approaching, the editor yelled in frustration "Does anyone have any news?", at which point a quick wit yelled back "No sir! Not a single new!". TN <b style="color:midnightblue; font-size:larger;">X</b> Man  00:47, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

new page
how can a person start a new page? i want to make one for A Very Potter Musical. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.124.87 (talk) 19:35, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * In order to create a new article, the first step is to register a username. After you sign up for an account, the article wizard can help you with the process of creating your first article. For more information on starting acceptable articles, I recommend that you visit the page Starting_an_article. If you prefer not to create a user account, you can still submit your article ideas and sources at Articles for creation. Cheers! -- SoCalSuperEagle ( talk ) 20:06, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You should also read the discussion at Articles for deletion/A Very Potter Musical to see why there is not an article about that subject. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  21:20, 12 June 2010 (UTC)


 * A Very Potter Musical was deleted at Articles for deletion/A Very Potter Musical and three more times until it was protected against recreation. It would probably be difficult for a new editor to make an article with sources good enough to justify an article now. There are lots of poor Internet sources. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:28, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Warnings
If I revert an unconstructive or vandalism edit, go to the editor's talk page to warn them, and find they've already been given a level 4 or 4im warning, do I need to get an admin to block them? If so, how? I'm asking this because the 4 and 4im warnings say they'll be blocked if they vandalize again, if they don't get blocked after another vandalism the warnings aren't true. dffgd (talk) 19:46, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The place to report persistent vandals is Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism. -- SoCalSuperEagle ( talk ) 19:48, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, if they've already been given a 4 or 4im, head straight to WP:AIV. <b style="color:#000">TFOWR</b> 19:51, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Got it. Thanks. dffgd (talk) 20:08, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Problems with illustrations
I've started to add illustrations to wikipedia and redraw existing bitmap images as vector images. I have two problems that I hope you can help me with.

1. When I add text to a vector image, formatting such as bold and italics often do not appear on the uploaded image, despite using opensource fonts such as DejaVu Sans.

2. After replacing an existing image I've been checking the pages that use the previous image to make sure they all look okay. The new image replaces the old image fine, however, the thumbnail displayed is often distorted and stretched. Editing the page and then clicking 'preview' or 'save' without making any changes solves the problem but is not an ideal solution. Any suggestion on how to remedy this?

Thanks, Ben Taylor —Preceding unsigned comment added by T4taylor (talk • contribs) 22:40, 12 June 2010 (UTC)


 * For the first one, please see commons:Help:Inkscape for details. I have also encountered that bug and find it very annoying. Whenever I bold, italicise, recolour, or resize a text, they show at black patches!  Kayau  Voting  IS   evil 11:52, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Randomly placng Speedy Deletion tags
I just spent a long time creating a new article Economics terminology that differs from common usage that does not appear to overlap with any other article. Someone called andy immediately tagged it for speedy deletion, claiming the material is already covered in another article Outline of economics. He clearly did this tag without looking at either my article or the other one, because they have nothing in common other than economics. His userpage says one of his interests is speedy deletion, so obviously he just tags new articles as a matter of principle rather than based on appropriateness. And his userpage shows he has no relation to economics.

Can an administrator send him a suggestion that he slow down and use some judgment? It was a waste of my time writing my reply to his tag. Thanks. Duoduoduo (talk) 23:29, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * First, while I have not spent a lot of time examining our series of outlines, unless I completely misunderstand, even if there is overlap it isn't a good reason for deletion. By definition, and outline of a subject should be largely duplicative (while summarizing) material in existing articles. Second, I didn't look very far, but I didn't see the duplication, but I stopped looking when I realized that evidence of duplication wouldn't support the argument.


 * However, it is true that much of the material in the article is unsupported.


 * The idea is sound. Terms are used in economics with meanings that differ form from ordinary usage - a summary of such differences—if properly sourced, as opposed to created via WP:OR, would be a valuable addition. For example, many people consider buying a stock (not counting IPOs) as an investment, but that's not the way it is used in economics. However, while saying that, I think the section on investment could be improved, and it definitely needs references.--  SPhilbrick  T  00:32, 13 June 2010 (UTC)