Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2010 June 19

=June 22=

Yesterday I created an article called Elizabeth Marshall b.1738 (because there is already an Elizabeth Marshall page) and uploaded it with the Move button, but my article doesn't show up when I type Elizabeth Marshall into the search box. Can someone help, please? Thanks, User:Devonienne
 * Moved Elizabeth Marshall b.1738 to Elizabeth Marshall (cook) and added something at top of page about the otherElizabeth Marshall.  Joel  Russell - Talk Contribs 20:09, 22 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Brilliant, thank you so much! User:Devonienne

= June 19 =

Can somebody help
At the page Vietnam Airlines there are two coordinates, could someone please get rif of the second one on the left please. Thanks Sp33dyphil  (Talk) (Contributions) 00:49, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Done.  Intelligent  sium  01:49, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Editing english version of page for hometown
I like to add some more to the english version of the page for my hometown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aschach_an_der_Donau. I noticed when I go in the Edit mode that the template is in german but it appears on the english version in english. How can I get the entire page of the german page on the english version and just switch out the portion that has to be translated? I tried to copy the entire page from the german to the english page but that didn't work. I was able to copy the link for the coat of arms from the german page (edit mode) and it appears on the english page but not the same way as in the german one. It seems to have frames and I am not experienced enough to deal with this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FritzH1 (talk • contribs) 02:57, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It's just a matter of template names I think. Don't worry. Perhaps you could copy the German thing to your userspace leaving a note how you copied it in the talk page, then translate it, then copy the translated text to the article.  Kayau  Voting  IS   evil 03:27, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Confusing administrative double-standards
I recently edited the TF2 article to add some content, and to change some existing content as it was no longer factually accurate. I did remove some content too by mistake -- I did not realise that the reference at the end of the paragraph contained multiple pages. Anyway, I got into a discussion with an administrator called Sabre about the removal of content and the subsequent reversion of some of my changes -- whilst I accept that I made a mistake in removing some content as mentioned earlier, even editing it was not an option since there was no newer source to verify a change in the article content.

The strange (and seemingly hypocritical) thing is that I was told to make sure that my edits conformed to WP:OR. Fine, even globally demonstrable data is not a verifiable reference for content, that's fine. What I find strange is that the same administrator who had told me not to add my own original synthesis in has now done it for me (see the lastest edit on the Team Fortress 2 page).

What sort of double-standard is this that I am told that if a source is out of date it does not matter, but the administrator in question is not questioned when doing the same thing I wished to do? I fail to see why his original research should be considered 'verifiable' whilst mine is considered unreliable and unverifiable. I find it demeaning that I am to be cautioned like a child and be told by the aforementioned that we are 'adversaries' merely for me asking a question to an administrator (who I thought would be kind enough to answer my questions, but I guess I was wrong about that), only to have the administrator who cautioned me himself edit the article in the way he told me that I could not, not to mention that when I asked about his double standards he decided to merely pretend like the conversation never happened by removing the conversation from his talk page.

I find this a rather disturbing revelation in an encyclopedia that I use often. What is going on here? Findstr (talk) 08:15, 19 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I think these edits are frankly bordering on the unacceptable, so I'll consider opening a discussion concerning S@bre's behaviour on the relevant forum Claritas § 12:45, 19 June 2010 (UTC)


 * If I have acted incorrectly regarding this whole OR thing, then I apologise. I certainly apologise for my behaviour in this case, looking over my last comment in particular, it wasn't acceptable or becoming of my position as an admin; its no excuse, but its been a long week. However, I had indicated to the user that I wished to disengage from this issue, primarily because, as Findstr noted himself, it getting me worked up. Removing messages from my own talk page, last time I checked, was allowed and given that it can easily be retrieved from the page history, should not be taken as "pretending the conversation never took place". You're welcome to debate my edits and change the article if I am at fault here, but don't directly involve me with this content dispute anymore. -- Sabre (talk) 13:00, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Uploading Google Map.
Dear Sir/Madam,

I want to locate Bandhaguda thourgh Google Maps. Please guide me how it is possible?

The Link is

 View Larger Map

Regards Tapana kumar Patro —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tkpatro (talk • contribs) 08:38, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I've added the coordinates to the article. Clicking on them in the infobox will take the reader to a page on which he or she can select from a variety of maps. Deor (talk) 10:27, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Bookmarking favourite articles.
Is there a way I am able to Bookmark favourite articles in Wikipedia within my Wikiaccount? Thanks! . —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lionchloetie (talk • contribs) 09:43, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You can bookmark them using your browser (usually CTRL + D). Findstr (talk) 10:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Visit any page and click on "add to my watchlist" (in the new version, it's been replaced by a little star symbol towards the top right hand corner of the screen). This adds the page to your watchlist.  To see all your watched articles, first click on the "my watchlist" tab (top right) and it displays recent changes to your watched articles.  Then click on "view and edit watchlist" (towards top left) and it will show you all your watched pages.  Ka renjc 10:22, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * If they wish to do it without an account (as they said), then that functionality does not exist. :) Findstr (talk) 13:09, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * But they said within my account! Lova Falk   talk  18:33, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Maps for Streams via External Link
Would this link qualify as a map for a stream for, e.g. the Nine Mile Run? --Chemicalinterest (talk) 11:07, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * USGS Coordinates in Google Maps
 * Per WP:ELNO #15, we don't use external links to maps to indicate the locations of places; instead, we use the coord template. For instructions on how to use the template, see WikiProject Geographical coordinates. For suggestions concerning linear features such as streams, see WikiProject Geographical coordinates/Linear. Deor (talk) 11:33, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Election - member tables.
I've been creating some articles about the constituencies of the Anguilla House of Assembly, and I was wondering how you can alter the table so that it shows that the same candidate was the member for two or more different parties - for example, like on Smethwick (UK Parliament constituency). Thanks in advance. Claritas § 12:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Click "edit" to see how a page does something. Smethwick (UK Parliament constituency) uses rowspan which is documented at Help:Table. If you still have problems then come back and link to a specific case you want fixed. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:02, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I don't really understand how to add rowspan to the tables. Can you explain it to me for this template, which is being used on Island Harbour (Anguilla House of Assembly Constituency):

Thanks. Claritas § 18:10, 21 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Write  before the first occurrence of Kenneth Harrigan and remove the second (including the cell it's in), like this: . PrimeHunter (talk) 21:18, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Is my article published?
I have attempted my first ever Wikipedia page titled "Baptism Integrity" and although clearly needing improvements in citation and more content it looks OK on My gae. But I cannot be sure I haev moved it to Wikipedia mainspace as I can't find (as I think I should) a "move" tab.

What am I doing wrong please? I'm obviously a beginner!

Roger —Preceding unsigned comment added by Capcourt (talk • contribs) 13:26, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It hasn't yet been moved. I can move it for you, but you have not references. It isn't a BLP, which can be deleted on sight when there are no references, but it may get tagged. Would you like to add references first, or have it moved and continue to work on it?-- SPhilbrick  T  13:48, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * After rereading, I see you know it needs citation work. I moved it, but I didn't do it right, will clean it up.-- SPhilbrick  T  14:11, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It also needs a lead, cats, wikification, and pov cleanup.  Kayau  Voting  IS   evil 14:20, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It also appears to be nearly entirely cut and paste work from various pages on http://www.baptism.org.uk where they acknowledge not knowing the copyright status of some of their content. --Onorem♠Dil 14:26, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * ... and therefore I have speedily deleted it as a copyvio. BencherliteTalk 14:33, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

<-Next time you log in, you will see a yellow bar indicating that you have a message. It will have a link, which will take you to your talk page, where we are trying to help you.-- SPhilbrick  T  18:50, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Manchester Apollo Manchster
if you put in the word manchster-not a spelling mistake-its directs to a list with words including that.At the bottom of that page click on 20 to take you to the next 20.Then click on the first link which says 'The original Bootlegs' and 'redirected from Manchester Apollo Manchster'. Can someone somehow edit it so manchster! is spelt properly. Cheers,Gobbleswoggler (talk) 14:38, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It's a redirect from a typo. There's a discussion taking place here as to whether it should be deleted.  Ka renjc 21:07, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Carburetor Dung
On the above page there are the words Dari Jemapoh ke Mancheste.It this a spelling mistake of Manchester? Gobbleswoggler (talk) 14:54, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It's a spelling mistake for Manchestee, oddly enough, but it's also given as Manchester. I've 'fixed' it. Dougweller (talk) 15:45, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Mancheste
I put in the word mancheste-a letter less off manchester.I am doing this for alot of words to spot spelling mistakes.It comes up mancheste in the search for alot of french films.Is this a spelling mistake? Gobbleswoggler (talk) 15:02, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Dunno, I've looked at frwiki and google but couldn't find an explanation. Perhaps WP:RDL people will be able to help?  Kayau  Voting   IS   evil 15:39, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * My guess is that the same editor has copied in the same mistake in a lot of articles. I did the same search as you did, and found a lot of "Mancheste University Press, 2007, ISBN 0719058317". So you can correct this mistake. Lova Falk   talk  18:31, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Link a dispute template to the associated "talk" section
I know it can be done (I've done it before) but can't remember how nor am I able to re-locate the guidance that previously assisted me (I think it has something to do with "parameters", but that guidance area now reads like Greek to me). As I also recall reading, this is a recommended addition to "dispute" tags as an enhancement to the dispute resolution process. Thanks JakeInJoisey (talk) 15:06, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Your contributions suggest you may refer to The Gore Effect which displays the Content template. If you view the wikitext of the Content template, it looks as if the text containing the link to the article's talk page does not allow for linking to a particular section. The template simply hard-codes the link like this:  You may have seen another message box template that did allow the link text to be customized from a template parameter. Wikipedia has many different message box templates edited by many different users and they may not all have the same features. Since the Content template is protected, only administrators may edit it. You can ask on Template talk:Content for someone else to add the feature you want. --Teratornis (talk) 19:43, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I appreciate both your consideration and the courtesy of your reply. In the interim, I continued to hunt around for an answer and did manage to find the tag  where I was able to link the tag "talk" link to the appropriate talk section and will try it out in my sandbox on the  tag to see if it works. As I understand your observation inre "hardcoding", I assume it won't...but I like to play :-)
 * Thanks again. JakeInJoisey (talk) 20:06, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

General Aristide Razu /pictures are disappearing?
Hi,

It seems that the picture in "Aristide Razu" article "General Aristide Razu with wife Margareta and son Alexandru" has disappeared. Any reasons why? Thank you .Aristiderazu (talk) 15:31, 19 June 2010 (UTC) Aristiderazu
 * It was deleted by a administrator called Fastily because it does not have a licence. BTW your username seems to violate WP:REALNAME, unless your real name is also Aristide Razu.  Kayau  Voting  IS   evil 15:37, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

by the way :in English you say "an administrator" not "a administrator"Aristiderazu (talk) 15:54, 19 June 2010 (UTC) AristiderazuGo back school bro!Thanks for the tip though.


 * Do you really think it's good WP:Wikiquette to point out the minor mistakes or simple typos of the people who give up time to answer your requests for help? We all hit the wrong key on occasion, you know - you included.  Ka renjc 16:49, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Speaking for myself only, I welcome anyone to correct any error I make, in any context. I consider corrections to be gifts. Especially on Wikipedia, which is an encyclopedia and not a social networking site such as Facebook. --Teratornis (talk) 18:55, 19 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Not being a user of Facebook or similar I'm afraid don't know the etiquette there, but when errors in any content I add here are cleaned up by more knowledgeable or observant souls I'm grateful for the help, like you. I just thought "Go back school bro!" uncivil (and ironic) as a response to someone who offered an answer but made a minor typo in the process. Ka renjc 20:12, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree that is not in keeping with the guidance in How to Ask Questions the Smart Way but I empathize with people who upload photos only to have them deleted because they didn't understand our complex license rules. Not everyone reacts with gratitude when we (perhaps inadvertently) give them the impression that we want their contributions, and then delete them, usually without apology, for reasons that are often difficult for non-attorneys to understand. Not to mention that I might actually want to "go back school". --Teratornis (talk) 19:53, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The editor is the general's grandson, I think. The pictures are from a family album that he's inherited. Can someone spell out for him how he should upload and license these pictures? -- John of Reading (talk) 17:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * This is a somewhat pernicious case that comes up repeatedly on the Commons Help desk, and usually with no good answer. Basically all the licensing options assume the uploader is the creator of the work, or the creator has released the work under a free license or put it in the public domain. That often won't be the case for old family photos (unless they are very old). Lots of people have family photos taken years before anyone thought of this modern licensing stuff. Typically the photographers are unknown, and the dates and locations of the photos may be unknown as well, so it is difficult if not impossible to determine who holds the copyrights to the photos, or whether the photos are old enough for the copyrights to have expired. A family member who has inherited the photos themselves has not necessarily inherited the copyrights to the photos, which ordinarily belong to the photographer(s) and/or their estates. See the links under Commons:COM:EIC. --Teratornis (talk) 19:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Well ,John of Reading, said it !.... Aristiderazu (talk) 18:26, 19 June 2010 (UTC) Aristiderazu

And this administrator goes for the women and children(!?)Aristiderazu (talk) 18:34, 19 June 2010 (UTC) Aristiderazu

B.T.W. at the Orthodox Church ,the child takes the name of the father ,so although my mother was Gabriela Razu,daughter of Alexandru Razu ,I am Andrei-Radu Georgescu ,after my father Mihai Georgescu.Is that good enaugh?a.k.a.Aristiderazu (talk) 18:34, 19 June 2010 (UTC)  Aristiderazu
 * WP:REALNAME says:
 * "Do not edit under the name of a well-known living person unless it is your real name, and you either are that well-known person or you make it clear that you are not."
 * One way to "make it clear" is to disclose your identity on your user page. Currently your user page is rather messy. You should clean it up by moving the scratch editing material to a user subpage such as User:Aristiderazu/Sandbox, and keep your self-disclosure on your user page proper. --Teratornis (talk) 19:10, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * If your grandfather is no longer living, then you may be OK to edit under his name. However, you should still explain clearly on your user page that you are not your grandfather, just to avoid confusing other editors. And read WP:COI. --Teratornis (talk) 19:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Note that the administrator was not going "for the women and children", but simply insuring that Wikipedia does not risk violating copyright law. See Commons:Commons:Project scope/Precautionary principle - in general, we assume a media file is not free content unless we can prove it is free. The burden of proof is on the person who uploads a work to clarify its licensing status. Even though you uploaded the photo in good faith, Wikipedia can get into serious trouble if we violate copyright, so we err on the side of caution. Even if there is only one in a million chance of trouble from a particular photo, we have millions of photos uploaded here, which can turn a one in a million chance into a high chance of trouble if we get lax. --Teratornis (talk) 19:20, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Teratornis ,thank you for the explanations ,I have modified my userpage.Aristiderazu (talk) 23:37, 19 June 2010 (UTC) Aristiderazu

And whoever took the picture with my family ...,please put it back. I thank you in advance.Aristiderazu (talk) 23:37, 19 June 2010 (UTC) Aristiderazu OK.So from here we go to me asking why go for the picture with the wife and the kid ,but not for the other ones. Please don't erase the other ones unless your boss tells you to.Cheers mate!Aristiderazu (talk) 20:38, 20 June 2010 (UTC) Aristiderazu

The wallbirds
Can someone clean up 'the wallbirds' page. Gobbleswoggler (talk) 16:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi, this is the page for asking questions about using Wikipedia. You may want to ask this question on the article's talk page. Rock drum (talk·contribs·guestbook) 16:43, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * What's preventing you from fixing it yourself? Xenon54 (talk) 19:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I added a template that marks it as needing cleanup and started working on it, but it needs further work. RJFJR (talk) 19:33, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It needs a lot of work, and it's a borderline pass only on WP:BAND. I found and added a good link to an example of nontrivial coverage, but it may not be enough.   Ka renjc 20:22, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Is there anyway I can convert your tables to excel sheets
Hey, I wanted to copy your spreadsheet into a database for use with my website. If I try to do large excel sheets (like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_1_games), something like the 3rd column goes out of whack, moving the 2nd or 3rd release dates down to different lines, and only keeping the first. It bugs the hell out of me, because I have to go through 1700 games and fix them properly.

EDIT: How do I use Wikipedia:Tools#Export? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.14.147.162 (talk) 20:25, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Do you guys store these tables using excel sheets? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.14.147.162 (talk) 19:37, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is a wiki, but not a semantic wiki, which means we edit tables as raw wikitext rather than maintaining such data internally in a query-able database-like format. That makes exporting data from Wikipedia's tables potentially difficult, as you are seeing. You can look through the links in Tools and WP:EIW but I will be surprised if there is a simple solution to your problem. You might have to write your own parser/converter program in a scripting language such as Perl or PHP. If you plan to frequently update a large spreadsheet from information in a constantly changing Wikipedia table, that might be worth the effort, but be aware that Wikipedia articles can change their layout and format at any time, so anyone could break your script by monkeying with the table in some way you did not anticipate. --Teratornis (talk) 19:59, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * (ec)No, they aren't stored as Excel tables. I see the problem with multiple release dates, although I would have thought a simple macro could clean that up. Looks like most of the multiple release date start with "NA" or "UK", could you search for that in column 1 and move?-- SPhilbrick  T  20:02, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Seeing the Mainpage from previous times
Is there any reasonably convenient way to see how the main page looked at a specific date/time in history?

I know that it would be possible to 'reconstruct' it from the history of all the templates and things, but that is a bit tricky.

I tried the Wayback Machine here, but that seems to fizzle out after Jul 31, 2008 - but maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Cheers all,  Chzz  ► 20:37, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Not exactly what you asked about but check out http://nostalgia.wikipedia.org/wiki/HomePage .--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 01:18, 20 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I am aware of nost, but that's not what I wanted; I'd like to see what Wikipedia looked like on any specific date. Last Thursday, April 1st 2008, whatever.  Chzz  ► 06:11, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

we went on criags list and ended up here
we need help went on criagslist ended up here we are trying to get hold of the person that posted a ad at ( specifics of item removed) now where do we go to answer this ad 20:39, 19 June 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Snortpiggy (talk • contribs)
 * You really need to ask at Craigslist. This help desk is for questions about using Wikipedia. TN X Man  20:48, 19 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 6 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck.  WackyWace  talk to me, people 20:51, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Citing sources
Hi, I'm making a contribution on a song, and I'm looking for sources online. But the only one I can find is BestBuy.com. Would it be wise to count a store as a source? It can be reliable.....SwisterTwister (talk) 21:15, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It would depend on the specifics, but I'll tell you for free that if the only reference you can find is BestBuy, the song probably doesn't pass the notability requirements for an article. You can read the notability guidelines for songs here. Matt Deres (talk) 22:26, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree with Matt Deres. Usually an article needs a few third-party reliable sources in order to pass the notability criteria. The first line of this policy sums it up pretty well. — MC10 ( T • C • GB •L)  01:52, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Could you define what "a contribution" means to you? When I read your question, I was under the impression that the article already existed and that you were adding a bit of information to that article.  Although the other two respondents seem to think that the article doesn't even exist and you are trying to base an entire article on the one source.  So, could you explain what you mean a bit more?  Dismas |(talk) 02:48, 20 June 2010 (UTC)