Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2010 June 27

= June 27 =

I've got a range of Questions
Hello, I've got many questions to ask: You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot easier. I'm wondering what the 200px is for.
 * I've got other Wikimedia accounts, but I don't want to set up a user page for each one of them. How do I redirect them to my Wikipedia User page?
 * Also, is there a way of limiting a width of a AFL player infobox at this page?
 * Next, on the page Template:Cquote, there is an example which looks something like this
 * I still do not under stand what the term public domain means.
 * Is it aright to set up a template solely for the purpose of signatures?

Thank you Sp33dyphil  (Talk) (Contributions) 01:37, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Use a soft redirect if the Wikimedia wiki has the appropriate template -- you can't automatically redirect across wikis -- or you could just put a link to the effect of "See here".


 * As far as I know, infoboxes normally do not have a way to limit width. I'll leave this to the template experts for a definitive answer.


 * Looks like it controls the size of the quotation marks.


 * You can do anything you want with the work, even pass it off as your own if you want to go that low. See also Public domain and simple:Public domain. (Simple English, which limits itself to basic vocabulary because it is intended for children, students, and learners of English, is a good resource if the English Wikipedia article is too technical or flowery to make any sense -- which is often the case for topics in the fields of mathematics, science, and law.)


 * Absolutely not. See WP:SIG. Xenon54 (talk) 01:59, 27 June 2010 (UTC)


 * You cannot redirect to another wiki but you can make a clickable interwiki link to this wiki with, where   is the English Wikipedia. The link can be piped, for example   to produce Main account at English Wikipedia.
 * In Template:Cquote, 200px is supposed to be the size of the quotation characters in pixels, but after a 2006 edit and later edits, the template only reacts to certain values and those values are doubled. Any of 10px, 30px, 40px, 50px, 60px are doubled. All other values are ignored and the size defaults to 35px. You can bring it up at Template talk:Cquote if this seems odd and should be explained in the documentation. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:36, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The public domain is straightforward to define as a concept, but in practice it can sometimes be difficult to determine whether particular works are in the public domain, such as works of unknown age, by unknown creators, created in unknown locations. See Commons:Help:Public domain and Commons:Commons:Hirtle chart. Related concepts include: derivative work, threshold of originality, de minimis, and freedom of panorama. See the links under Commons:COM:EIC. If you have a question about the status of a particular work, ask on Media copyright questions. --Teratornis (talk) 03:08, 27 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you everyone, thanks for your help. Sp33dyphil  (Talk) (Contributions) 00:10, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Trivia
User:Jerem43 removed content that I added to an article without discussion. He said that the sentence "Buffalo burgers are referenced in R. D. Rosen's book A Buffalo in the House and Peter Abresch's novel Painted lady" in the article Buffalo burger is trivia while pointing to WP:TRIVIA. It was originally in a section titled "In fiction". I moved it to the description section. I know that he will still think that it is trivia because the section was just that sentence, not even a list. Looking at the trivia guideline, it says nothing about a sentence like that being trivia. Is it really trivia and if it is, how so? Joe Chill (talk) 04:46, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Trivia is basically random, unconnected facts about a topic. Does the sentance you added substantially add to the article in terms of describing what a Buffalo burger is?  Lots of things ar mentioned many times in other contexts.  Wikipedia articles become degraded in quality when they become filled with lots of random, unconnected factoids, such as long lists of places where the subject of the article is mentioned.  In Wikipedia parlance, these are called "examplefarms", as they often grow to unmanagable sizes as everyone mentions every occurance of where the subject showed up.  This makes for lousy articles.  Imagine filling an article like Hot dog with every single mention of a hot dog in film, TV, or books.  The fact that something is mentioned somewhere adds little to the understanding of the topic, so it is by definition "trivial"... -- Jayron  32  04:54, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Would being featured in an episode, not a passing reference be considered trivial? Joe Chill (talk) 04:57, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, likely yes. Wikipedia articles do not become more readible or informative when every time a subject becomes part of a TV show someone drops a mention of it in an article.  Its not really the depth of involvement in a TV show for the subject.  With a topic like "Buffalo burgers", does knowing that Family Guy devoted an whole episode to one (no idea if this is true, just a possible example) actually help me, as a reader, know what a buffalo burger is?  -- Jayron  32  05:02, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * While this is generally discouraged, you can add a 'references in popular culture' section and put in all the miscellaneous facts you want. But that is only concealing the fact that you're adding trivia.  Kayau  Voting  IS   evil 05:14, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Please note that Kayau's comment is likely toungue-in-cheek. He's not advocating you to create a trivia section under a different name; he's somewhat sardonically noting that people often attempt to do this to work around the WP:TRIVIA issue.  -- Jayron  32  05:26, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * BTW note that it is not uncommon to undo an edit without discussion. See WP:BRD.  Kayau  Voting  IS   evil 08:23, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

entry for 'RGS Atalanta'
Good afternoon.

I was looking for info on RGS Atalanta, as successor to the Atalanta car company run by a late relative. It seems that there was previously an entry, but that this was deleted by one of your editors. I am curious as to why. RGS Atalanta was not controversial in any way of which I am aware, neither was its existence in doubt. What is the reason for the deletion? Is there a Dark Secret of which I am not aware? JG —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.108.96.56 (talk) 11:54, 27 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Only administrators can see the content of deleted pages. In July 2005 an unregistered user created RGS Atalanta containing only this text: "The Atalanta car was manufactured in the 1930's by Atalanta Motors Ltd, London Road, Staines, Middlesex, England". Two minutes later the same IP address blanked the page and an administrator deleted it in accordance with Criteria for speedy deletion (there may have been another formulation in 2005). Today deletions usually leave a reason in the deletion log, for example for All Religions are One. The IP address never made any other edits to the English Wikipedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:15, 27 June 2010 (UTC)


 * You may be interested in Atalanta (1937 automobile). Mjroots (talk) 18:21, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sure that the G7 criterion was the same as it is now; when new criteria are adopted, they get new numbers, and when old ones are repealed, they aren't replaced. Consequently, you can always count on an A9 speedy deletion to refer to musical recordings, just as you can always count on an R1 speedy to have been a redirect that went to a nonexistent page, even though R1 has been repealed.  Nyttend (talk) 01:04, 29 June 2010 (UTC)


 * The deletion log didn't mention G7 or any other reason. Linking to G7 was my own way to explain the deletion under current rules. I also assumed G7 would have been deletion on author request in 2005, but the formulation could have been different. Looking at the page history, it said : "Any page which is requested for deletion by the original author, provided the author reasonably explains that it was created by mistake, and the page was edited only by its author." The author of RGS Atalanta blanked it (covered by the current G7) but didn't actually request or explain anything. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:22, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Delete an Article
I'm a relatively new at Wikipedia. I tried to do a "move" of an article, but I guess I got the order wrong. Any way, this article Misr El-Maqasha should be deleted. Because I created another article for the same club with a different spelling Misr Lel Makasa. So how can the first article be deleted? Thanks in advance.-Osa osa 5 (talk) 16:43, 27 June 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Osa osa 5 (talk • contribs)

I figured the answer out! Thank you!!


 * Great :) Prodego  talk  06:44, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Improper "branching" of a template due to a copy/paste move
I noticed two extremely similar templates in the category "Shopping malls in Metro Pittsburgh" and realized they were branches of the same original text.

Compare these two historical versions of the two templates:

Pittsburgh Shopping

Pittsburgh Metro Shopping Malls Link Fixed

The latter is basically a copy-paste move of the former, and they've branched apart from each other since then.

What should be done here? &mdash;Notyourbroom ( talk ) 18:39, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Still waiting on any guidance here. Thanks in advance. &mdash;Notyourbroom ( talk ) 17:51, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd advise that we redirect one to the other. "Shopping" included a misplaced link to "Metro Malls", so it's impossible to tell how many pages intentionally linked to "Metro Malls".  Check back on the WhatLinksHere for "Metro Malls" in a day or two; before then, you may not be able to know how many pages really link to it.  Nyttend (talk) 01:01, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You'll need to wait longer; "Metro Malls" still is supposedly linked by some pages that actually link only to "Shopping". Nyttend (talk) 13:43, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

image thumb problem
Hello everybody. I have uploaded two images to wikicommons, and am now trying to include them in the robostrider article. The Robostrider_6-FIG2.jpg is as intended, but Robostrider_faceoff2.tif doesn't show up as a thumb image. What's my best option for includig a thumb of both images? Thanks, Robinh (talk) 18:43, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Please see http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/COM:TIFF#TIFF. &mdash;Notyourbroom ( talk ) 18:45, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for this, notyourbroom. OK, so wikipedia can't display tiff files.  But, does the licensing allow me to convert the tif file to a jpeg, and upload under the same license?  Or do I need to get another license agreement for the jpeg?  Thanks, Robinh (talk) 18:53, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Hold on a moment- I'll work something out. &mdash;Notyourbroom ( talk ) 19:10, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I've reuploaded it as a derivative work here. You should be good to go. &mdash;Notyourbroom ( talk ) 19:14, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Sweet! thank you very much!  Very best wishes from a very warm and sunny UK, Robinh (talk) 19:56, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Redirect
How do I redirect a name to an article? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:26, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * What name are you trying to redirect? But in most cases the following syntax is placed on the top of the page that you are redirecting from: #REDIRECT . 20:38, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * But if there isn't a page? Is it like creating a new article? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:40, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Could I have names of articles please?  Mr. R00t    Talk  20:45, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It's exactly like creating a new article. It basically is a new article, except the only content will be:
 *  #REDIRECT Article name to redirect to  
 * TFOWR 20:51, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, thank you. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:53, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

MOS guidance wanted - capitalization for title of English work with French title
I am wondering whether the article C'est la Vie (radio) should be renamed to have a lower-case v, which is how the network writes it. It is an English-language radio program using a French phrase for its title. I didn't see anything in WP:MOS addressing this situation. Mathew5000 (talk) 21:39, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Because wiki titles are case sensitive it should probably in the same case as the radio program. Though another option would be a redirect from C'est la vie (radio) to C'est la Vie (radio). This would be put on the top of C'est la vie (radio) with the following syntax: #REDIRECT . Or you could do it with C'est la Vie (radio) being the place with the redirect on top and C'est la vie (radio) with the content. In this case it is really up to you.   Mr. R00t    Talk  21:47, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * How can it be up to me? Surely the capitalization of article names is standardized on Wikipedia. Mathew5000 (talk) 22:02, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The same issue comes up at Talk:La Vie en rose (film). Mathew5000 (talk) 22:08, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Apparently I was wrong *oops*. I'll move it over.  Mr. R00t    Talk  22:11, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

With the film just do however it is on the film title.  Mr. R00t   Talk  22:12, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

diff for an archived page?
How do I find the diff for an archived page? e.g. Wikipedia_talk:General_sanctions/Climate_change_probation/Requests_for_enforcement/Archive_3. When I click on history, I just see the edit creating the archive.-- SPhilbrick  T  21:40, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Go to Wikipedia talk:General sanctions/Climate change probation/Requests for enforcement and look for the diff there.  Mr. R00t    Talk  21:43, 27 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Assuming you want a diff for a signed edit, you can use the username and time stamp to find it in the contributions of the user, or in the page history of the page it was archived from. Either method will take a little time and only works if the original page has not been deleted together with it's history. Contributions pages and page histories have time fields to narrow down old edits. After clicking "older" you can also manually edit the time in the url. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:52, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the help. I found the diffs I needed. How painful, as the time stamp on the archive page appear to be in UTC, but not the actual history. So I subtracted five hours, but that was wrong because of the stupid DST conversion, and subtracting four hours in some cases worked, while five in other cases. I can't believe it has taken me an hour to find three stupid diffs, but I thank-you for the help.--  SPhilbrick  T  22:36, 27 June 2010 (UTC)


 * You could change time zone to "Use server default" in preferences to match contributions and page histories with UTC time stamps, and then change back to your real time zone later (or keep server time if you prefer). PrimeHunter (talk) 23:18, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * That sounds like a great idea. I'll try that.--  SPhilbrick  T  01:15, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Category merging - need help from experts
I found two categories that I think could be merged. Category:Lists of radio series episodes was created in 2007 and has 24 entries. Category:Lists of radio episodes was created in 2009 and has 2 entries. It looks as if these could be combined.

I have been browsing around Categories for discussion/All current discussions and I went over to Categories for discussion and read the rules.

I am not an epert and so don't feel comfortable nominating the categories for merging or redirecting, but I also don't want to just leave this issue the way it is. So I decided to bring it to the attention of the experts here at the Help desk. Maybe one of the experts here can review the categories and decide what needs to be done. Thanks for the help. - Hydroxonium (talk) 21:43, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I am not altogether familiar with this. I guess your best bet would be to find someone that is active in this and suggest they do it for you.  Mr. R00t    Talk  21:49, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * When the categories are this small, and the smaller one hasn't been edited since its creation in '09, I would advise WP:BOLDness. Simply change the two pages in the smaller category so that they are in the bigger one. The smaller one will then be empty. After being empty for four days, it qualifies for deletion under WP:CSD. You may want to ask on the talk pages of those two pages if there are any objections, but with Categories this small, I don't think CFD is necessary. Robert Skyhawk (T C B) 21:54, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * RESOLVED - Thanks very much for all the help everybody. I mentioned this to Admin Rigadoun, who initially created Category:Lists of radio episodes. He merged the 2 categories and took care of everything else. This issue is now resolved. - Hydroxonium (talk) 04:08, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Editor Gender
In "My Preferences" I have three choices for Gender: male, female, and unspecified. Below the box, it says "This information will be public." If a registered user specifies a gender, how is it "public?" (I actually get tired of referring to editors by their full name because I don't know whether the editor is a he or a she, but I confess I'm not a big fan of political correctness.)--Bbb23 (talk) 23:01, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You can adjust text based on the gender of a user using the  magic word. For example,   returns "", showing that I have left my gender unspecified. Algebraist 23:08, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! So, there's no way to figure out an editor's gender unless I type it all in and then resolve it by doing a Show preview or something similar. Kind of cumbersome.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:02, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * This is a case of a software feature from MediaWiki which isn't very useful at this Wiki, but could be useful in other uses of the software. Remember that while Wikipedia is the most well-known application of the MediaWiki software, it is not the only application of it, and there are likely to be features which seem useless to Wikipedia, but which exist for other applications.  -- Jayron  32  00:16, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * This feature is more useful in some other Wikipedia languages. It was made for languages where more words, for example "User", are gender specific. System messages (and possibly the display of the name of the user namespace) can also be set up to use the right word. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:46, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the technical insight. I was just looking for a way to use the correct pronoun when referring to an editor. Algebraist gave me a way of determining an editor's gender when the editor specifies it. It may not be perfect, but it will do - if, of course, I remember how to do it.--Bbb23 (talk) 06:41, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Gender setting is public - it can be retrieved from the API. example Prodego  talk  06:43, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * The Gender template will also return that info. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 11:20, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Need an old version of a deleted article
Recently the SumTotal Systems page was deleted. The page had existed for about a year when it was suddenly deleted from existence with no warning whatsoever. I highly disagree with the user who did this and am disappointed that there was no warning or attempt for resolution.

I am trying to make an attempt to recreate the article again, and was wondering if there is a way to get a copy of old versions of the article. I don't see the page anymore in my contributions page.

Thanks for any help.

WAT ( talk  •  contributions ) 23:12, 27 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Only administrators can see edits to deleted pages. See Why was my page deleted?. The deleting administrator can be contacted at User talk:JzG. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:25, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Additionally, once an article is deleted, all mentions of it will be missing from your contributions. And by going through the logs, you can see why it was deleted.  Dismas |(talk) 23:26, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the replies. It looks like I am out of luck in getting a copy then. I just noticed the page is protected now so it can't be recreated. Great. WAT  ( talk  •  contributions ) 23:36, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Wait, just ask the deleting admin to email you a copy. If you don't have email enabled (s)he can userfy it.  Mr. R00t    Talk  23:41, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Right, it could be put in your userspace so that you can make a better article. You should ask yourself though whether it can pass WP:CORP.  If you write a well balanced article that passes the notability requirements, then it can be recreated.  Just takes a bit more work is all.  Dismas |(talk) 23:45, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * There is absolutely no need to userfy. The article already exists in a non-spammy version at Sumtotal Systems.  No need to have two articles on the same topic.  -- Jayron  32  00:13, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Good catch! Dismas |(talk) 00:22, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Sumtotal Systems has been speedily deleted as spam. – ukexpat (talk) 17:23, 28 June 2010 (UTC)