Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2010 June 9

= June 9 =

Wrong link for Light Up the Sky
I am not sure where to post my question. I was editing the page on Betsy Joslyn, American actress, and one of the credits I added is linking to something on Wikipedia that is not the show credit I added. I do not know how to differentiate between the two because they both use the same title. "Light Up the Sky." My listing should be about the Roundabout production of Light Up the Sky (1990), not a musical group's song called Light Up the Sky. Can you help me so the listing I made does not link to "Light Up the Sky" the first single from Yellowcard's album Paper Walls? Thank you Jackygage (talk) 03:32, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Jacky. I took care of it by piping the link to the presumable name of the not-yet-created article on the play, like so Light Up The Sky

The part after the main title "(play)" is what we call a title "disambiguator". See WP:DAB for much more on this.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:38, 9 June 2010 (UTC) Thank you Fughettaboutit for fixing the problem so quickly. Yes, Light Up the Sky was a play. A play by Moss Hart. I see on the Moss Hart wikipedia page there is no live link, otherwise it would have been nice if my entry linked to the Moss Hart play, though it was the 1948 production listed on the Moss Hart page, and mine was 1990. Thanks again! Jackygage (talk) 03:50, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure. Wouldn't the article on the play probably cover all productions of it--both the 1948 and the 1990 revival?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 04:11, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I must input that Light Up the Sky by Yellowcard is a good song. That is all.

Reporting vandalism on ChildFund International page
Reporting a user who is vandalizing ChildFund International's wikipedia entry. Here's the latest Talk message from the vandal:

Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed content from ChildFund. When removing text, please specify a reason in the edit summary and discuss edits that are likely to be controversial on the article's talk page. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you.Gwernol 66:66, 66 March 6666 (UTC)

Blarrrrrgh! I am the ChildFund monster! I take your money but never spend it on helping kids. Instead I use your money to fly to impoverished nations where I buy starving babies and cook and eat them. Also, I like to stick my fingers in rectal cavities of livestock. Blarrrrgh! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.237.128.138 (talk) 01:16, 9 June 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChildFund (talk • contribs)
 * You can report obvious and persistent vandals at Administrator intervention against vandalism. Before posting there, a final warning in an escalating series should have been posted to the user's talk page (for example Uw-vandal4, Uw-spam4 or Uw-speedy4), and the user must have vandalized within the last few hours, including after the final warning was given. Various warning templates can be found at Template messages/User talk namespace. Your block request is unlikely to be acted upon unless you follow these steps. Cases that are not simple vandalism can be reported at WP:AN/I. Of course, in conjunction with warning against and reporting vandalism, you have the ability, mandate and are encouraged to revert all instances of vandalism you find yourself.  m o  n  o   03:38, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Everything Mono says is right on. However, in this instance your post here did the trick. I have blocked for 48 hours because the vandalism is blatant.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:46, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Separately, for your own account, please take a few moments to create a new account with a username that represents only you rather than the fund. Thank you.  7  04:05, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Dr Who cast list
How do you add a person to the cast? On the pages the articles all have an edit button but the cast boxes are all locked. I am asking as one of my children has appeared in a Dr Who episode and I was going to credit their appearance on your website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.45.18.126 (talk) 07:26, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Can you tell us the name of the page you are trying to edit? I've looked at one or two Doctor Who pages and can't see anything that would stop you editing. Your addition will need to be verifiable using reliable sources, so check that the person is listed in the cast list at, say, the BBC web site. Better, add the name and cite the reliable source. -- John of Reading (talk) 11:59, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * At the upper-righthand corner of the page, you'll see a button labeled "edit". There, you'll see Wikimarkup for the box. You'll need to edit it manually to add your kid. Try "replying" to this section to see what it looks like, and what I did. You'll see I added Your tenative child in. However, there's another thing to take in to consideration; did your child have a speaking role? At minimum, I believe the requirements for inclusion on the wikipedia article run along the lines of "had a major or at least significant speaking role, and was listed in the credits, or is noted by independent publications for the role, despite not being listed in the credits". In the case that your child was a relatively minor extra, but had at least, say, a line or two, you might be better served going over to http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Doctor_Who_Wiki and editing the equivalent article there; they have a lower traffic rate and, as diehard fans, are probably more open to exhaustively documenting every actor. 24.205.46.147 (talk) 12:04, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Screenshot
I know how to make a screenshot (Shift+SysRq), but can I add a screenshot of gameplay of this game to its article? Or for that matter, to any article about a video game that doesn't have a screenshot? I will try to conform it to Fair-use rationale. View the article; does it need a gameplay screenshot?  2D Maestro  User 2 11:29, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * First, you'll want to downsize the image to help with fair-use arguments. 320x240 is generally a good "standard" size for this. Then, go to wp:upload; choose the option labeled A screenshot taken of a movie, TV program, computer game, web site, computer program, music video, or other such source. You'll get a nice big page with loads of instructions. Read them carefully, understand them, understand why they're there. If you're not sure on this, come back here. Seriously. This is important, it keeps you and the wikimedia foundation out of legal heat. I know you're thinking "but riff, Sierra doesn't care about their rights to 3D Ultra Lionel Traintown, and even if they did, they're defunct!". This may be true, but, like death and taxes, someone always owns the rights and, the harder they are to find, the more obscene and aggressive with rights management they are. In this particular case, Activision owns it. Vivendi. Bad juju, man, tread lightly. You may think they don't care, but when there's money in it, someone always cares.


 * One thing you could try, and everyone on wikipedia will love you for a million years if you do it, is asking the original rightsholder (by email or snailmail or fax, whichever they use) to license an individual screenshot of some of these older games (you'd probably need to provide said screenshot; I doubt half of the rightsholders even have a copy of old games like this) under a libre license. It's a longshot, but some PR departments may be smart enough to realize it's only a good thing.


 * Anyway, after you've uploaded it, go here to learn how to put it in an article. Hope I've been helpful, Riffraffselbow (talk) 11:50, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Help writing either a template or a bit of inline wizardry
Hello. I'm trying to improve Red Link by modifying the example redlink to, instead, draw a suitable red link from, well, just about any source (something like wp:requested articles would be good, but I wouldn't begin trying to parse that monstrosity; I'm looking for a "one and done" template here, one I can set up, use, walk away from, and 2 years later it'll still be pumping out suitable redlinks.)

Are there any template gurus here? alternatively, does anyone know one/know where I can find one? Riffraffselbow (talk) 11:34, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * If I understand what you are looking for, solving the technical issue may be possible (I don't know how) but are you sure this would be better than the current static red link which provides the hover over text "red link (page does not exist)"? That seems to provide an explanation that a random red link would not—in fact it seems to me most people who land on the policy page already have seen red links and don't know what they are and are there for an explanation, so a random link would just provide more of the same lack of explanation that brought them there and was already a mystery. Second, there are many red links on Wikipedia that should not be linked because they are not suitable topics for articles, so drawing randomly form the Wikipedia's red link aether would result in many bad examples. Finally, I think people would be confused by this. They would see the red link, get the hover over text of the random name of an inchoate article such as Ffynnongroew (a town in Flintshire in Wales), and ask why (and what is) that?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 11:58, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * A reasonable argument; my main reason for "wanting" this is mainly a desire to transform the negative (an article that, if created, wouldn't improve the wiki, and, in fact, required salting to prevent such creation) to a positive idea. Not all that "useful" in most senses, I guess, but just an idea for something different. 24.205.46.147 (talk) 12:07, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry to pounce on your suggestion but I couldn't resist, and so [Ffynnongroew]] is no longer red... BencherliteTalk 12:15, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, that's just filthy, Bencher. Riffraffselbow (talk) 12:18, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * OOooooh, neat. Okay, putting out more bait for Bencherlite. Darwin Region (a region in the Northern Territory of Australia).--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:38, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Glendon & Rushton  Station    website
There is  now  a   Friends  group,   aiming  to  buy  /  restore  this  now  very  dilapidated  Grade  2  listed  heritage;    am  wondering  whether  you  can  add  its  details, then  we  might  get  some  new  members --  much  needed  to  achieve  rescue ??

Chairman is   Frances  Peacock,   (personal details removed)

Tim Collier (Publicity  Officer)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.43.67.35 (talk) 12:19, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * have you been covered in multiple Reliable Sources, generally defined as, at least, local newspapers or television news? If not, you probably don't pass our notability guidelines for inclusion Riffraffselbow (talk) 12:29, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Tim, please don't add personal details here, as they are likely to be picked up by spammers. I'm sure Mrs. Peacock doesn't want sales people calling her at all hours of the day. -=# Amos E Wolfe talk #=- 12:45, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * If you can get a story in the local press, then the info that the group is aiming to buy and restore the station can be added to the Glendon and Rushton article. Your group would appear to be non-notable (wikipedia wise) so a mention in the station article would be probably about the most you could expect. If you have a website, then possibly a link could be added to the article too. Mjroots (talk) 08:55, 10 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Implicit in the previous replies is that fact that one of the things that Wikipedia is not is "a soapbox or means of promotion". --ColinFine (talk) 22:07, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Yacht racing photo
There is a wide photo in this section, and above it appears some unnecessary text. However when I try to edit it the text doesn't appear in the edit window. No clue how to fix it. Weakopedia (talk) 13:19, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * There was an extra pipe character (|) before the closing center tag that was messing it up. I have removed it, and now the extra text does not appear.  --Mysdaao talk 13:28, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * That was quick, thanks a lot for your help. Weakopedia (talk) 13:46, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. --Mysdaao talk 14:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Book Creator Toolbox
There is a Book Creator Toolbox on the top of my screen with a book that I didn't create. How do I get rid of the toolbox without deleting someone else's work?? Georgia Peachez (talk) 15:12, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I see you have created Book:T.I. since posting here. Do you still have a problem? PrimeHunter (talk) 00:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)


 * No. I have it solved. Yeah, I decided to create one. Thanks for replying. :) Georgia Peachez (talk) 16:48, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Nominating an article for deletion.
How do I do this? I want to nominate this for deletion as I think it's full of spam and has no links and few references. Chevy monte  carlo  15:39, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You'll need to propose the article at articles for deletion. The three-step process is laid out here. TN X Man  15:48, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Let me say, however, that I don't think this page should be deleted. It needs sourcing and I've removed the spam links, but the topic seems notable. TN X Man  16:00, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Another way of proposing an article for deletion is putting a proposed deletion tag on it, which is described here: Proposed_deletion. But that is for uncontroversial deletions. Lova Falk   talk  18:09, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with Tnxman307 - a very quick search (a few seconds) found a reference to "First-ever virtual surgery performed" in the Winnipeg Free Press (which I have added). The three external links could in fact be used to cite the article (I've reformatted the external links, and if I get a chance, I'll see if I can use them to cite the article and/or expand it). As a rule, deletion should be the final resort. In this case, a quick Google News Search showed 2 news articles related to Virtual surgery (albeit they are press releases); GNews Archive has 390 hits (the one I used was the 2nd on the "2010" hits); Google Books had 1320 hits; Google Scholar had 2720 hits! Before suggesting deletion, I think that the proposed nominator should take a bit of time to look for references - if you look at my Articles for deletion nominations (look for them at my Special Contributions in the Wikipedia: namespace), you will see that I always have looked for reliable sources before nominating it - there have been several articles (particularly biographies of living people) which were unreferenced for almost 3 years - and I found some references for them! WP:BEFOREsays "When nominating due to sourcing or notability concerns, make a good-faith attempt to confirm that such sources don't exist" - this is very important, in my opinion! -- Phantom Steve /talk &#124;contribs \ 18:32, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, then I won't bother. But at least I know now where to report articles, thanks. It needs loads of work, and I'm surprised no one else has come across it. Chevy  monte  carlo  04:41, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Placing two images side by side
Is it possible to place two images side by side on a wikipedia page?

I am working on Wim Delvoye's page, and there are two images (Delvoye, Erato, 2001 - 2002 and Delvoye, Dump Truck Scale Model, 2004) that I would like to place side by side instead of one on top of the other.

How can I do this?

Thanks.Vicrogers (talk) 16:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * This is possible, but the execution depends on the context. If you are not too worried about the text flow being disrupted, you can use a gallery, which will place the images in a prominent box. If text flow is a consideration, you can use a bit of wikitable syntax to achieve this effect. The syntax for the latter method is something like:


 * For this method, you format each image the same way as shown above and "stack" them in the edit screen, rightmost on the top.  Intelligent  sium  17:03, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Check out Template:Multiple image/doc, I think it has what you need.-- SPhilbrick  T  17:04, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I tried making the change, but I didn't worry too much about size or captions, edit or revert as you see fit.-- SPhilbrick  T  17:18, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Reference to non-free newspaper from the google news archive.
Lets say that I wish to put into the article for Genghis Khan that he was a member of the Ku Klux Klan, and when I use the Google News Archives Search (http://news.google.com/archivesearch) for "Genghis Khan" and "Ku Klux Klan". I get a hit for an article where the text includes "Genghis Khan liked Sesame Street. Ghengis Khan was a member of the Ku Klux Klan. Ghengis Khan wore pantyhose". However, the link is to a New York Times article in the December 7,1941 edition that requires payment for *and* the linked page doesn't show any text about Ghengis Khan unless you pay. How should the reference be done? The text which is seen should be "New York Times - December 7, 1941" (or something better), but should the link be to the article, to the google news archives search that shows it, or to something else?Naraht (talk) 17:38, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I would do the reference as per normal, using the template. Although Wikipedia requires that information in articles can be verified, it does not say that this needs to be at a free-to-view (or even online) source. I've used GNews results, where the relevant quote is on the search results, even if it is not on the linked page - as long as the GNews search result clearly shows the text, that should be enough. Incidently, I know that your example is false - everyone knows that Genghis Khan hated Sesame Street, and preferred Fraggle Rock! -- Phantom Steve /talk &#124;contribs \ 17:57, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I need to use more often. Where should I include the url for the GNews search result then? url= should be the actual site at the newspaper, right? And if you think Genghis Khan preferred Fraggle Rock, bring a ref. :) Naraht (talk) 18:11, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The url= will show the actual link itself, yes, not the search results. Someone with access can verify it (we don't ask that anyone actually does, just that it is possible - in the same way that if you were to cite a book, not everyone who reads the article will necessarily have access to that book, but some people in the world could access it in a library, or by buying it!_ -- Phantom Steve /<font color="#008000">talk &#124;<font color="#000080">contribs \ 18:37, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, and the GK (heart) Fraggle Rock reference: - a much under-represented classic by Henson, if you ask me! -- <font color="#307D7E">Phantom <font color="#55CAFA">Steve /<font color="#008000">talk &#124;<font color="#000080">contribs \ 18:43, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Use of the word "British"
I want to know why it is that if you are a singer, actor, or whatever from Scotland, Wales or ireland your wiki will say " XXXXX is a Welsh singer" but most of the time if you are from England it will say " XXXX is a British singer" Since the word Britian includes all of the British Isles, why is it only England described as Britain? English people hate being called British. Can't English people be refered to as English? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.206.178.68 (talk) 18:13, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

No,they are Britons or Brits.(joking)Aristiderazu —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aristiderazu (talk • contribs) 18:23, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It all depends on what the original creator puts down. There is no specific policy or guideline that says that "English" can't be used or that "British" should be used. If you look at some Scottish singers, etc, some of them will be described as British, while some of the English ones will be described as English. -- <font color="#307D7E">Phantom <font color="#55CAFA">Steve /<font color="#008000">talk &#124;<font color="#000080">contribs \ 18:45, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * This is often due to the national interests of both the subjects and those describing them. See WP:UKNATIONALS for some guidelines. I disagree that English people hate being called British, or rather, English is not in general as strong a separate identity as Scottish, Welsh, or Irish. Hence the other terms are found relatively more often, though they may not be more correct. -- zzuuzz (talk) 18:52, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Speaking for myself, I am proud to be both British and English. When asked, I tell people I am a British citizen, and English. But as I will never be notable enough for a Wikipedia article it's a moot point in my case. – ukexpat (talk) 19:25, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Let it be known that first and foremost, I'm one of the Men of Kent, then I'm English. Mjroots (talk) 08:48, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that English people would rather be called English than British. I think "British" is just made so that a person from abroad can say " are you are british? " to a Scottish person instead of "are you English?" and then causing some offence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.206.178.68 (talk) 18:56, 10 June 2010 (UTC) Also they may be referred as Tommies.But only when there is trouble in Denmark/or was it Belgium?.Aristiderazu (talk) 18:00, 10 June 2010 (UTC) Aristiderazu


 * Scots can be sensitive about this too. Is a person famous or infamous? Is Andy Murray called British, but Elgar English? Is Dennis Nilsen British? Before 1707, "British" means something different. I prefer "British" generally after then, because of being Scots and in favour of the Union.User:Abigailgem talk

Someone who has some time on their hands
Hi, I've started to create a table on the page World Cup 2010 Population of Countries, but I don't have the time or the patience to create one. Can anyone help out? Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this, I couldn't find anywhere else! Thanks Quiggers1P (talk) 20:25, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I see World Cup 2010 Population of countries has been nominated for speedy deletion as not expanding upon List of countries by population. I think all World Cup participants are in the latter except England (which has a wrong population figure in the former, probably based on the entire United Kingdom). Creating a list solely to connect Fifa World Cup participants in a given year to their population counts doesn't sound suitable for Wikipedia to me. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:14, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

AIR FORCE GENERALS
Why isn't General Jimmy Dolittle listed with the other Air Force Generals. Doolittle Raid on Tokyo? Congressional Medal of Honor? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.45.149.238 (talk) 23:06, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Also Harold Moore see below

} BRIGADIER GENERAL HOWARD W. MOORE

Bio Tools Printable bio

Retired Nov. 1, 1966. Died April 2, 2007.

Brigadier General Howard W. Moore, deputy commander of the Ogden Air Materiel Area (Air Force Logistics Command), with headquarters at Hill Air Force Base, Utah, was born in Farmersburg, Ind., in 1913. He graduated from Farmersburg High School in 1931 and enlisted in the 145th Infantry, 37th Division, Ohio National Guard April 1, 1937. He was commissioned a second lieutenant, Infantry, National Guard of the United States Oct. 15, 1940. While assigned to the 153rd Observation Squadron, Key Field, Meridian, Miss., Lieutenant Moore's application for pilot's rating was approved by the chief of staff, U.S. Army Air Corps, Sept. 10, 1941, in view of his previous commercial flying experience. Today he is rated a command pilot and is current in the B-52 Stratofortress and B-58 Hustler. General Moore was the first general officer to become fully qualified in the B-58.

General Moore was reassigned to the 44th Bombardment Group, Heavy, in April 1942 for operational training prior to overseas deployment in October 1942. As commander of the 67th Bombardment Squadron, 44th Bombardment Group, Heavy, Eighth Air Force, he led the group on the first daylight raid over Germany. During his combat tour in England and North Africa, he was awarded the Silver Star, Distinguished Flying Cross, and the Air Medal with three oak leaf clusters.

In March 1945 he again returned overseas as director of operations of the Occupational Air Force for Austria and accompanied the first Allied Team to meet the Russians in Vienna after the German surrender in May 1945 for the purpose of defining Allied occupational areas for the city of Vienna.

General Moore was later assigned as chief, Aeronautics Section, Air Division, U.S. Forces Austria in 1945, and while serving in this capacity, assisted in drafting of the Austrian Peace Treaty. In 1947 he piloted General Mark W. Clark, commander, U.S. Forces Austria, and Ralph Earhardt, U.S. minister to Vienna, to Moscow to participate in the Foreign Ministers Conference being held there.

In July 1947 General Moore was assigned as liaison officer, Headquarters 6th Army, Presidio, San Francisco, Calif. In June 1948 he was appointed to the additional duty as deputy chief of staff for air in the pilot program directed by James Forrestal, then secretary of defense for unification of the services in the western states.

After participating in the B-36 program at Carswell Air Force Base Texas, General Moore was assigned as base commander, Rapid City Air Force Base, S.D. In June 1952 he was named deputy commander, 18th Strategic Reconnaissance Wing, Rapid City Air Force Base, and then in July 1954, returned to Carswell Air Force Base to assume command of the 11th Bombardment Wing, Heavy.

During the three years as commander of the 11th Bombardment Wing, his wing won the coveted Fairchild Trophy two out of three years in Strategic Air Command Bombing and Navigation Competition. In June 1957 the wing was the first in Strategic Air Command to receive 100 percent on a no notice inspection (unit simulated combat mission). For these achievements, General Moore was awarded the Legion of Merit and the 11th Bombardment Wing was awarded the Air Force Outstanding Unit Award for its performance during the period October 1954 to August 1957.

General Moore attended the National War College, Fort McNair, Washington, D.C., in August 1957 and upon graduation, was assigned as commander of the 4130th Strategic Wing, Bergstrom Air Force Base, Austin, Texas. He organized and upgraded the wing to combat-ready status and in August 1959 was assigned as commander, 816th Air Division, Altus Air Force Base, Okla. On Sept. 9, 1961, he took command of the 19th Air Division, Carswell Air Force Base, Texas, and served in that capacity until he assumed his present duties of deputy commander, Ogden Air Materiel Area on July 27, 1965.

(Up to date as of Aug. 2, 1965)

OFFICIAL AIR FORCE HISTORY WEB —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.45.149.238 (talk) 23:17, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Which page are you referring to? Jimmy Doolittle is listed at both List of United States Air Force four-star generals (as James H. Doolittle in 1985 where he got the fourth star) and Category:United States Army Air Forces generals. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:21, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Multiple archived urls, one source
For references that span several "pages", each page's URL must be archived separately (like with WebCite). Are there multiple archiveurl parameters (e.g., archiveurl1=, archiveurl2=), and if not, what would be a good way of citing a single reference with multiple archived URLs? –  Ker αun oςc op ia◁ <sub style="color:#5E1FFF;">galaxies  23:24, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * If info is spread over several webpages to form a complete article, then each needs to be cited separately. Mjroots (talk) 08:44, 10 June 2010 (UTC)