Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2010 October 4

= October 4 =

Fan produced toys
I have a question. Another editor and I are having a heated conversation regarding things like notability regarding Transformers toys produced by unrelated companies founded and run by fans. I stated that such fan companies were not worth an honorable mention as they are basically bootlegs produced to cash in on the franchise. The apposing editor claims that they can be worth an entire article if reliable sources can be found. Yet I don't see how something that isn't even worth bringing up in a wiki/wikia is worth creating an article over, let alone a section or honorable mention. So who's right here? Sarujo (talk) 00:42, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * It sounds like the notability guideline will answer your question. You might well find bootlegs unworthy of your own effort, but others might think differently, and notability, as defined at that link, is the key criterion on Wikipedia. --AndrewHowse (talk) 02:26, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I see you posted this at two places, the Misc. Ref Desk and here. So here's my response from there: The other editor is right in that if they can find enough reliable sources, then they are eligible for an article per WP:GNG and the companies that produce them may be notable per WP:CORP.  Their legality isn't up to us.  See, for instance, Pink Floyd bootleg recordings for an example.  Dismas |(talk) 02:46, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * My thing was not about legalities, but on how fan produced work is even worth talking about in any article. The apposing editor is convinced that I am implying that there is a pending lawsuit out there. I've had articles regarding bootleg or fan produced subject deleted on the claim that such material was never notable. It's clear from the company is not notable. The editor has a misconceived idea regarding what notability is. He states "This is a great MINOR company, and I hope they make enough great toys that one day they ARE notable". How can that be notability? It was my understanding that sales were key in any toy's notability.


 * The editor is insisting that I produce information that shows that fan company is a real term here on Wikipedia. I not seeing how such information can affect any argument. Any company that produces a product is inspired and or corresponds with an excising licensed product or franchise that is run by fans of said franchise is by any definition a fan company. His insistence regarding proof of the word's existence makes not sense to me as I don't see how word's wiki status relevant to the conversation. My argument was regarding that the toys was derivative work. Could the editor be trying use a never heard of it claim to void any argument I may have in the discussion as a whole. Sarujo (talk) 12:53, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * The "fan" part of it doesn't matter. The company is notable or it isn't based on their ability to meet WP:CORP as noted above. If a company that started based on a derivative work ended up being more popular than the original, would you still not consider it notable because of the way they started? (Also, you certainly do not have to be a fan of someone's work to attempt to profit from it.) --Onorem♠Dil 13:06, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I not really sure, stuff as such is rather touchy to me. Yet if reliable sources were to popup showing that this had extended well beyond their muse (sales, critical analysis, professional endorsements), then I could go along with an article or whatever it was deemed to be entitled to. But make just making claims that they have produced toys of different characters, no


 * I'm well aware of the fact that anybody can try to cash in and ride the Transformers coattails. Sarujo (talk) 15:32, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * If your question is specific to this particular company, this is the wrong place to ask the question. If your question is generic to whether or not a company that started because they were fans of something can be notable, the answer is WP:CORP. --Onorem♠Dil 15:39, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

If it's covered in multiple reliable sources then we'll cover it - if it's not we will not. That the toys themselves are rip-offs are neither here nor there for our purposes. --Cameron Scott (talk) 15:44, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Onorem, my scope of this and the other discussion was not limited to just Headrobots. It was to all fan based products. I tried to bring up other fan companies including Rabid Squirrel Productions who while did create an Arcee Transformer (A.R.C.) toy without consent, did submit it after completion, and was in the running for a possible mainstreaming. Yet the editor insisted on proof of claims Headrobots, which I don't recall making to begin with. Yet my stance is if we are to put such emphasis on such toys, we might as well start creating articles on works on deviantArt. Sarujo (talk) 19:43, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * If it's covered in reliable sources we cover it, if it's not, we don't - that it's "fan based" is not something we care about. --Cameron Scott (talk) 20:31, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

I read help and FAQ - All I wanted to do was update a URL link in the reference section of a page but I can't figure it out.
I can't even figure out how to submit a help comment. I guess this is where you put the text.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Interactive_Simulation

There were 2 references:

^ a b "Corrections to Standard for Distributed Interactive Simulation - Application protocols". IEEE. http://standards.ieee.org/reading/ieee/updates/errata/1278.1-1995.pdf. Retrieved 10100517. ^ a b c DIS 7 Overview, SISO PSG File Library In my frustration in not being able to correct the link for reference [2] I ended up deleting both references in the References section and now there is nothing except the links to 1 and 2 which are still in the body of the text for the page.

What do I do now? FrankRHill (talk) 01:18, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

I am going to try and get to an editor to repair a link as Idid not realize this was a non-interactive page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FrankRHill (talk • contribs) 01:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * See Referencing for beginners. You have to edit the place where the reference is used. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:54, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

The problem is this: When I go to edit the Reference section of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Interactive_Simulation to repair the link for Reference 2 DIS 7 Overview

it says

When I go to edit References I get 2 lines as follows:

References Reflist

(I have omitted the actual References text with the = and the { as the last time I included it in this posting it didn't show up.)

Well I have no idea how to change the present Ref 2 which goes to "http://www.sisostds.org/index.php?tg=fileman&idx=list&id=25&gr=Y&path=1+-+DIS+PSG+-+General+Information%2FDIS+Introduction+and+Briefings" with the correct link (SISO redesigned their website). The new correct link is: "http://www.sisostds.org/DigitalLibrary.aspx?EntryId=29288".

I see a cite_note for ref 2 but don't know how to ref it. The help section was not helpful. Why doesn't Wiki just put the present URL therefor a reference so it can be changed? I think that the References must be protected as I did get a page at some point that said it was protected. My previous bad attempts that caused error messages were not actually made by Wiki - which is a good thing. How does one connect the "Reflist" with actually making a change to an existing reference link? If you just show me the actual text I enter to make this specific change, It would be really, really helpful. Thanks FrankRHill (talk) 02:14, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi there, You don't edit the references section per se, you edit the actual inline reference where it's used in the main text. Edit the section where the superscript shows, and you'll see . Edit the url within that set of tags, and it'll show up in the References section. --AndrewHowse (talk) 02:24, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * (edit coflict) See Referencing for beginners which explains where the reference text is entered and can be found for editing. Do not edit the "References" section. To the left of the reference is either a '^' character or small letters. Click the '^' or one of the letters (often but not always the 'a') to get to the section where the reference is used and the reference text is in the source. Then either edit that section or click the Edit tab at top of the page. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:25, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

School Infobox
What's wrong with the infobox at The Sir Robert Woodard Academy? Rojomoke (talk) 01:21, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Couple of wiki end brackets missing on one of the parameters. Fixed it.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:31, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

searching for articles
How do you search for all articles with a certain word? In particular, searching for "Behnke" takes me to the article of that name, which is not exactly what I want. It seemed like the way to do this was obvious in the old interface; weren't there buttons to either "search" or "go"? ike9898 (talk) 13:35, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Ike, when you type the term into the search box, a list of predicted pages shows up beneath, and beneath that list is a further box with the miniature title "containing", you need to click on this result to get a serp containing all pages that have said term in their content, this link deals with your specific request: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=Behnke&fulltext=1 Darigan (talk) 13:45, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know about the new interface, but you are correct that "search" would be the function to use. You can also use this link, which takes you to the search page. TN X Man  13:46, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! ike9898 (talk) 16:11, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

writing an article for a band
Hello, I am inquiring about writing an article for a band--how do I post it with you when I have it finish and what do I have to do to publish it with wikipedia. Thank You —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.62.76.165 (talk) 13:52, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * You will need to first register an account, which has many benefits, including the ability to create articles. Once you have registered, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Please also review a few of our relevant policies and guidelines which all articles should comport with. As Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, articles must not contain original research, must be written from a neutral point of view, should cite to reliable sources which verify their content and must not contain unsourced, negative content about living people.


 * Articles must also demonstrate the notability of the subject. Please see our subject specific guidelines for people, bands and musicians, companies and organizations and web content and note that if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends against you creating the article.


 * If you still think an article is appropriate, see Your first article and How to write a great article, and please consider taking a tour through the Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation. An Article Wizard is available to walk you through creating an article, but you will need to create an account to use it. if you don't wish to do so, you can submit a proposal for an article at Articles for Creation. TN X Man  13:53, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Can't figure out how to print "publish" final article??
Attempting to complete first article. Recently responded to request for the addition of 2 citations. Now that they have been added, how to do I "publish" the final article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Flossie Bell (talk • contribs) 14:50, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * See: How to move a page. – ukexpat (talk) 14:59, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * You need to move the page from its current location in your userspace, User:Flossie Bell/National Association of Real Estate Brokers, to a mainspace location, National Association of Real Estate Brokers. It's on the drop-down menu just above the page. --ais523 15:05, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Draft on User Space still exists after moving
I created a page from my user space and moved it over, but the user space still shows a redirect to that live article. The user space still shows the draft page. Can I delete that draft and redirect since the user space/draft now shows up in Google too, along with the live article? I want to create another draft from that user space. Lcburns (talk) 15:03, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * You can edit the redirect itself by clicking on the "redirected from" text that appears just below the title after you visit the redirect page. This lets you request deletion of the redirect (you can request deletion of pages in your own userspace by putting db-user on them, whether they're redirects or not, and an admin will shortly delete them), but as you plan to use the page soon anyway, you can just blank it in preparation for the new article. (The main reason to delete it then recreate it would be to reset the history, in case you planned to move the article directly from userspace into mainspace, to prevent the history of the old article ending up in the resulting new article.) --ais523 15:07, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Marking Favorite Pages
Is it possible to save or mark pages that I plan on using often or would like to come back to? It would be something a personal library that I can easily access from my account. I'm sure you have something like this I just can't find it. Please direct, thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kelly1168 (talk • contribs) 18:39, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Welcome to Wikipedia! I've left some links on your talk page. I can think of three ways to mark pages:
 * Use your browser's "Add to favourite" function as you would for non-Wikipedia pages
 * Add the pages to your watchlist (use the blue five-pointed star next to "View History" for this), and then use the "My Watchlist" link to see them.
 * Create your user page and add links to the text there. -- John of Reading (talk) 18:52, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Joe Chapman's page
I created a new article that was tagged for deletion. I have now added the requested refrence to a well known squash website. How do I remove the tag? I was creating a page for someone already refreced on Wiki (from another page) as he was a flag bearer at the commonwealth games, so I just wanted to add some more details about him that I knew and add a picture. I could not upload a pic due to status. I have several pics of this individual as I live in his area and see him playing often. How do I add these or provide them to be added by a more advanced user. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chappy22 (talk • contribs) 22:02, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I can see you've figured out how to remove the tag. However, you need to work on your references. You've inserted them at the end in the References section. More commonly, you should be using inline references. The idea is you make a statement in the article, for example, "On May 16, 2009, Chapman won a title." Then, right after that statement, you put in a reference to the source that supports your statement. If you do it right, it will create a footnote number in the body next to the statement, and then the actual footnote in the References section. In that way, you tie together the assertions in the body with the sources that support those assertions. For more about how to do this, read Citing sources. I'd hold off on the picture part until you get the article better organized. On your Talk page, there are more links on how to write articles, etc., that if you haven't already done so, you might want to read. You can also look at other articles for guidance. Good luck!--Bbb23 (talk) 00:49, 5 October 2010 (UTC)